3 MORE fish DIED!

[taiboxa]

serious tai, im an expert on this (dont mean to brag) but what the hell "types" of ammonia are you talking about?
theres either free ammonia or bound ammonia, one of which affects nothing. How many types of NH3 do your stips test for?
Im a little confused atm.

i have both the strips and the test tube(add x Drops) and they all indicated no issues w/ the ammonia, i also have ammonia indicators on my tank so i kan keep a steady watch on it. the thing that gets me is the nitrogen i add to my tank for my plants (its heavily planted) and i have been doing it for ever.. and it is in a special form which is supposedly HARMLESS to fish and readily availible to plants.

the thing that gets me is when my fish were dying they were doing the gulping motion that most fish due when the ammonia is high and sucking out the oxygen from their tissue. also a few of them had burnt nairs indicating ammonia spike as well since that is the first part of bichirs to be burnt.
but i tested and didnt find any indication of ammonia spikes or anything of that sort.. but heres the kicker.. i took the pumps from my other tank put them on this one and increased airation DRASTICALLLY to offset the ammonia and after i did that.. the fish started getting frisky again. so im thinking since the increased air off set the DEATH.. it leads me to believe it was ammonia related from the nitrogen fertilizer stuff i have been using.. but .. its so odd even the PH remained at 6.8-6.9 and as long as ph stays fairly acidic ammonia spikes shouldnt be harmful so now im even more confused.

[goodcents]

i have both the strips and the test tube(add x Drops) and they all indicated no issues w/ the ammonia, i also have ammonia indicators on my tank so i kan keep a steady watch on it. the thing that gets me is the nitrogen i add to my tank for my plants (its heavily planted) and i have been doing it for ever.. and it is in a special form which is supposedly HARMLESS to fish and readily availible to plants.

the thing that gets me is when my fish were dying they were doing the gulping motion that most fish due when the ammonia is high and sucking out the oxygen from their tissue. also a few of them had burnt nairs indicating ammonia spike as well since that is the first part of bichirs to be burnt.
but i tested and didnt find any indication of ammonia spikes or anything of that sort.. but heres the kicker.. i took the pumps from my other tank put them on this one and increased airation DRASTICALLLY to offset the ammonia and after i did that.. the fish started getting frisky again. so im thinking since the increased air off set the DEATH.. it leads me to believe it was ammonia related from the nitrogen fertilizer stuff i have been using.. but .. its so odd even the PH remained at 6.8-6.9 and as long as ph stays fairly acidic ammonia spikes shouldnt be harmful so now im even more confused.

Do you have real plants? I like the fake ones, no problems

[Bojangles69]

i have both the strips and the test tube(add x Drops) and they all indicated no issues w/ the ammonia, i also have ammonia indicators on my tank so i kan keep a steady watch on it. the thing that gets me is the nitrogen i add to my tank for my plants (its heavily planted) and i have been doing it for ever.. and it is in a special form which is supposedly HARMLESS to fish and readily availible to plants.

the thing that gets me is when my fish were dying they were doing the gulping motion that most fish due when the ammonia is high and sucking out the oxygen from their tissue. also a few of them had burnt nairs indicating ammonia spike as well since that is the first part of bichirs to be burnt.
but i tested and didnt find any indication of ammonia spikes or anything of that sort.. but heres the kicker.. i took the pumps from my other tank put them on this one and increased airation DRASTICALLLY to offset the ammonia and after i did that.. the fish started getting frisky again. so im thinking since the increased air off set the DEATH.. it leads me to believe it was ammonia related from the nitrogen fertilizer stuff i have been using.. but .. its so odd even the PH remained at 6.8-6.9 and as long as ph stays fairly acidic ammonia spikes shouldnt be harmful so now im even more confused.

If you could read or find the ingredients in the plant food Id really like to know. I found more than a few companies who fell WAYY short of thier claims and we had to stop ordering from the manufacturer because of it.

So Im dying to know what form this nitrogen is coming in, if its not nitrates Im guessing it may be urea but see if it says on the plant food. Now as to the fish breathing for air.

Realize this. ANY dissolved salt or gas will force oxygen OUT of the water because like 95% of any salt or gas you can think of has a higher solubility rate than oxygen. So even too much plant food can force out O2 so make sure your using the right dosages. And the crazy part is this.

The rate of absorption of plant food to plant is proportional to the amount of plants you have in the tank. And If your doing weekly/monthly plant food doses and the plants arent eating all the food quick enough, you essentially will have a slowly but constant rising level of plant food.

Now the manufactures say its not harmful to fish. But either is a little bit of salt. But too much of ANYTHING will kill a fish, and often it doesnt take a lot of any dissolved salt to force out enough O2 to kill fish.

Now ammonia CAN exist in an acidic environment contrary to logical belief (because ammonias naturally basic). Im not gonna get deep into the chemistry BUT you can have a neutralized salt that creates an acidic ph (neutralized salt doesnt mean its neutral, again Im not getting into the chemistry unless your really interested)

But you will have an acidic ph (from the salt) with the basic ammonia but the ammonia and salt are nonreactive to each other thus the ph stays acidic while the ammonia continues to rise.

But the ammonia will still show up on a strip test so thats always your reassurance.

And for some reason just from what Ive seen I dont think its ammonia spikes. When ammonia spikes it doesnt just go up and dissappear, its spikes UP and STAYS UP.

Unless you have something in the water to treat ammonia (other than the crappy ammolock products that dont work) Than yes it will actually fluctuate up and down. But if your not testing positive for ammonia Id ditch the whole ammonia issue as even being a problem.

Im actually concerned with first the plant food, and second the ph (again im not sure what these fish require and it wont make a drastic difference but..)
on average should be around 7.4-7.6 for most fresh water fish than 8.2 for african cichlids.

If hypothetically speaking your breeder/distributer keeps these fish in anything (you said your tank was 6.8-6.9) less than a 5.8-5.9 or ABOVE 7.8-7.9 the fish can be going through ph shock. More likely though his ph would be higher, but I always test the breeders water before I put my fish in (except for ammonia because it will be flawed) my tank to make sure NOT that my water chemistry is PERFECT but to make sure my water mimics the breeders water than I slowly adjust it back to ideal from there. And YES A LOT of breeders have TERRIBLE water.
If you worked in some of these major distruting places youd realize why.

But those are just some of my thoughts/opinions.

[taiboxa]

If you could read or find the ingredients in the plant food Id really like to know. I found more than a few companies who fell WAYY short of thier claims and we had to stop ordering from the manufacturer because of it.

So Im dying to know what form this nitrogen is coming in, if its not nitrates Im guessing it may be urea but see if it says on the plant food. Now as to the fish breathing for air.

Realize this. ANY dissolved salt or gas will force oxygen OUT of the water because like 95% of any salt or gas you can think of has a higher solubility rate than oxygen. So even too much plant food can force out O2 so make sure your using the right dosages. And the crazy part is this.

The rate of absorption of plant food to plant is proportional to the amount of plants you have in the tank. And If your doing weekly/monthly plant food doses and the plants arent eating all the food quick enough, you essentially will have a slowly but constant rising level of plant food.

Now the manufactures say its not harmful to fish. But either is a little bit of salt. But too much of ANYTHING will kill a fish, and often it doesnt take a lot of any dissolved salt to force out enough O2 to kill fish.

Now ammonia CAN exist in an acidic environment contrary to logical belief (because ammonias naturally basic). Im not gonna get deep into the chemistry BUT you can have a neutralized salt that creates an acidic ph (neutralized salt doesnt mean its neutral, again Im not getting into the chemistry unless your really interested)

But you will have an acidic ph (from the salt) with the basic ammonia but the ammonia and salt are nonreactive to each other thus the ph stays acidic while the ammonia continues to rise.

But the ammonia will still show up on a strip test so thats always your reassurance.

And for some reason just from what Ive seen I dont think its ammonia spikes. When ammonia spikes it doesnt just go up and dissappear, its spikes UP and STAYS UP.

Unless you have something in the water to treat ammonia (other than the crappy ammolock products that dont work) Than yes it will actually fluctuate up and down. But if your not testing positive for ammonia Id ditch the whole ammonia issue as even being a problem.

Im actually concerned with first the plant food, and second the ph (again im not sure what these fish require and it wont make a drastic difference but..)
on average should be around 7.4-7.6 for most fresh water fish than 8.2 for african cichlids.

If hypothetically speaking your breeder/distributer keeps these fish in anything (you said your tank was 6.8-6.9) less than a 5.8-5.9 or ABOVE 7.8-7.9 the fish can be going through ph shock. More likely though his ph would be higher, but I always test the breeders water before I put my fish in (except for ammonia because it will be flawed) my tank to make sure NOT that my water chemistry is PERFECT but to make sure my water mimics the breeders water than I slowly adjust it back to ideal from there. And YES A LOT of breeders have TERRIBLE water.
If you worked in some of these major distruting places youd realize why.

But those are just some of my thoughts/opinions.

as for my fishguy he is phanominal. i have known him for years and he is a die hard.
the nigrogen supplement i use and works great is a potass. nitrate, urea mix.
my tank is very heavily planted as bichirs need plants and stuff to lay on so they can be closer to the surface, as for PH they can tolerate practically any so i try to keep it on the acidic in since they are huge eaters/poopers
i do water changes bi weekly and add plant supplements 2x a week usually right after water changes.

as for treating ammonia lol i have found nothing works better than frequent water changes and an increase in airation.

[spywizard]

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[tinyguy2]

i won a pair of gold fish from a carnival for one dollar and they lasted at least five years

[goodcents]

Just do weekly water changes and at least 99% of the problems go away

[goodcents]

Great, a interesting thread for once and I'm the only one on it

[IronReload04]

im not even sad anymore IM JUST ****ING FURIOUS! 600$+ gone just like that kuz? iono i test the water ammonia is high but they give false positives all the time too depending on the type of ammonia so iono.. i think im gonna just start going POSTAL and shooting people till i get up to bout 600bux worth of deaths that way ><

give em some tren.....that aughta strengthen em up