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Thread: Epistane Product...less than 40% pure (Lab Tests)

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  1. #1
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    if one of the reseach products from ********** didnt work it might have been you. if not it might have been a bad batch. that company does have a resend and replace policy. you dont like your product they replace it. that doesnt sound like a scamming company to me. if they were scammers they would have tucked a tail between there legs and went a running long time ago. They have been in business for years and not going anywhere. Hardly would claim scammer

  2. #2
    Yes. 4 posts, all of them defending the comnpany in question. You're clearly a part of the company, and you're fooling yourself if you think everyone here doesn't know it.

    They've all been banned here already, so you had to sign up under anothe name....the hilarious thing is that you're actually trying to defend them when it's a bad LAB TEST! It's a F-ing lab test that said the product is garbage, and your defence is ummm...."bad test" or "Bad batch"

    Members here aren't interested in excuses. Quit while you're (not) ahead.

    Which rep are you, by the way...which company rep are you, posting under a different name, out of curiousity?

    Their last company rep got caught lying here, in case you forgot.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    Yes. 4 posts, all of them defending the comnpany in question. You're clearly a part of the company, and you're fooling yourself if you think everyone here doesn't know it.

    They've all been banned here already, so you had to sign up under anothe name....the hilarious thing is that you're actually trying to defend them when it's a bad LAB TEST! It's a F-ing lab test that said the product is garbage, and your defence is ummm...."bad test" or "Bad batch"

    Members here aren't interested in excuses. Quit while you're (not) ahead.

    Which rep are you, by the way...which company rep are you, posting under a different name, out of curiousity?

    Their last company rep got caught lying here, in case you forgot.

    he obviously works for that company! LOL

  4. #4
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    anthony do you think these results would be uniform for the epistane clones as well? RPN makes on called Havoc and their is the one made by Spectra Force Research called Humaguno(sp)or methyl e from EST? or do you have more faith in one of those three companies?
    Last edited by unvme9180; 04-13-2007 at 07:12 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by unvme9180
    anthony do you think these results would be uniform for the epistane clones as well? RPN makes on called Havoc and their is the one made by Spectra Force Research called Humaguno(sp)or methyl e from EST? or do you have more faith in one of those three companies?
    I don't have much faith in any of them...the company who just got bashed for not having real/accurate-dosed EPI in their product sent a letter to every distributor of the RPN PRODUCT saying...exactly what has just been said about their own...though...they failed to produce a lab report.

    Yea, you read that correctly...the company who just got called out attempted to do the same thing to another company a week or two ago, but they went to all of their distributors and said it...not just to the public.

    How's that for dick?

    Oh...and as one member here so nicely put it...they also threatened to have me "whacked" and then to sue me:

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...roberts+wacked

  6. #6
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    ha-ha...I think that is a total of 2 busts in one thread...I love it...when will people ever learn if you ever want to actually be a BUSINESS provide an actual PRODUCT/SERVICE...not half of a product or a third of a product.

    Eventually, because of morons, like the guys behind EPIsuck, the FDA will have to step in and regulate the supplement industry.

    Good feed AR...and way to go Researcher...very subtle...ha-ha!

  7. #7
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    All 4 posts from researcher are about this "wonder supplement" EPIsuck....like I "wonder" how much is in it?

    They may actually have much bigger fish to fry if they are putting illegal steroids such as "testosterone" which it looks like in the report...

    It looks like I need to continue to make all my supplements and not trust these ethical-less (and supplement-less) companies...

  8. #8
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    The lab test is suspect without a reference.. did you guys even read the notes left by the people who ran the test? To paraphrase "we cannot say for sure what is in this. We compared to testosterone, and if it were testosterone, it would be at a lower dose than label claims."

    That doesn't exhonerate the producer, but it casts considerable doubt.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dude-Man
    The lab test is suspect without a reference.. did you guys even read the notes left by the people who ran the test? To paraphrase "we cannot say for sure what is in this. We compared to testosterone, and if it were testosterone, it would be at a lower dose than label claims."

    That doesn't exhonerate the producer, but it casts considerable doubt.
    Pat Arnold ran his own lab test also...and found the same thing, in his own Lab. Also..."whatever" is in it...there's only 3.8 mgs...there's no doubt about that...what's in doubt is "what" is actually in the bottle.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    Pat Arnold ran his own lab test also...and found the same thing, in his own Lab. Also..."whatever" is in it...there's only 3.8 mgs...there's no doubt about that...what's in doubt is "what" is actually in the bottle.
    No. There's 3.8 mg.. if it were testosterone. If you'd ever run these tests yourself, you'd know that without a reference standard you can't learn anything about a compounds quantity, only it's qualities.

    Listen, i'm not defending the company. I'm attacking the way you're spinning the lab report. It's misinformation.

    I'd like to see pat's lab tests, and see if he was able to get a reference standard either.

    PS. if there's no reference standard, chances are the hormone may not actually exist. The same companies that manufacture the hormones manufacture reference standards.
    Last edited by Dude-Man; 04-14-2007 at 08:54 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dude-Man
    No. There's 3.8 mg.. if it were testosterone. If you'd ever run these tests youreself, you'd know that without a reference standard you can't learn anything about a compounds quantity, only it's qualities.
    From what I've been told by people who know about these types of tests (which I do not), it's highly unlikely that this product contains Epistane, and certainly not in the right quantity.

    I believe Pat Arnold is on record saying as much, and I kinda trust the guy...

  12. #12
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    That's fine with me, but fact is fact, and word of mouth is word of mouth. This lab test essentially says nothing except that they can't test for it.

    But for the third time.. the company/product is suspect until a reference standard can be located and utilized. I wouldn't use this stuff for sure.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dude-Man
    That's fine with me, but fact is fact, and word of mouth is word of mouth. This lab test essentially says nothing except that they can't test for it.

    But for the third time.. the company/product is suspect until a reference standard can be located and utilized. I wouldn't use this stuff for sure.
    I wouldn't use anything from them...click the link in my last post...

  14. #14
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    When you get a chance anthony, i'm curious to know what tests Pat Arnold ran, and whether or not he was able to procure a reference sample to compare them to. Did he use HPLC? mass spec? IR spec? Can you get copies of his printouts? I just think that it's ultra fishy that no one- including the company that is selling this stuff, can come up with a reference standard. Without one, the tests just don't mean much.

    Disclaimer: I would not use this product.

  15. #15
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    I'd like to know what the **** I'm putting in my body, if I were to run it. If there's no reference, it could be anything.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto
    I'd like to know what the **** I'm putting in my body, if I were to run it. If there's no reference, it could be anything.
    ditto

  17. #17
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    Roberts your not telling the whole truth again, this is a copy of of a statement from the company-

    Many people who have been following the progression of *** over the last few years, are probably aware of the troubles we have been having with Anthony Roberts in his attempts to discredit our company and products. Well this is a message to him and any others who make it their business to spread lies and slander as truth. Below is a copy of the now officialy filed Lawsuit against Anthony Roberts in the State of Louisiana.

    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY1.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY2.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY3.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY4.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY5.jpg

    Also, we have a copy of the letter that was mailed to Mr. Roberts on March 21st requesting for him the remove/retract such statements. This was the final of many, many attempts via email and contact with our lawyer to have him make such retractions. He has responded only with mockery and even further accounts of libel against *****

    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY6.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY7.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY8.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY9.jpg

    We also, have several accounts since the letter date on March 21st of copied and filed alongside the lawsuit in regards to our Epistane product testing and even a statement from bodybuilding.com where he states "even if I helped bring them down". Not very smart to openly admit having participated in actions to try to bring a company down after they have asked on multiple occassions for you to cease and desist.

    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY15.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY10.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY11.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY12.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY13.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY14.jpg
    __________________
    Last edited by marcus300; 04-18-2007 at 02:18 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300
    Roberts your not telling the whole truth again, this is a copy of of a statement from the company-

    Many people who have been following the progression of *** over the last few years, are probably aware of the troubles we have been having with Anthony Roberts in his attempts to discredit our company and products. Well this is a message to him and any others who make it their business to spread lies and slander as truth. Below is a copy of the now officialy filed Lawsuit against Anthony Roberts in the State of Louisiana.

    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY1.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY2.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY3.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY4.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY5.jpg

    Also, we have a copy of the letter that was mailed to Mr. Roberts on March 21st requesting for him the remove/retract such statements. This was the final of many, many attempts via email and contact with our lawyer to have him make such retractions. He has responded only with mockery and even further accounts of libel against *****

    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY6.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY7.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY8.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY9.jpg

    We also, have several accounts since the letter date on March 21st of copied and filed alongside the lawsuit in regards to our Epistane product testing and even a statement from bodybuilding.com where he states "even if I helped bring them down". Not very smart to openly admit having participated in actions to try to bring a company down after they have asked on multiple occassions for you to cease and desist.

    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY15.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY10.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY11.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY12.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY13.jpg
    http://***-technology.com/ANTHONY14.jpg
    __________________



    ouch ...now that's some good fcuking research........
    I think hooker needs to chime in to that comment.........


    by the way I wouldn't use something either that no knows what's in it .......but I do think that our forums are being used for personal battles .........FACTS should be posted on products to help the fellow members on this board but all this damn back and forth crap with all these hidden reps trying to post here is a bunch of crap! seriously this is getting out of hand........

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by boostedevo8
    ouch ...now that's some good fcuking research........
    I think hooker needs to chime in to that comment.........


    by the way I wouldn't use something either that no knows what's in it .......but I do think that our forums are being used for personal battles .........FACTS should be posted on products to help the fellow members on this board but all this damn back and forth crap with all these hidden reps trying to post here is a bunch of crap! seriously this is getting out of hand........
    What would you like me to comment on?

    Rick Collins has been consulted on this matter, and he said that not only does the company in question not have a case against me, but they would likely face criminal charges if they brought this to court.

    Quoting (not verbatim) from Rick Collins explanation of the situation:

    "We talked about the whole ***/Epistane thing and their "threats to sue
    over libel/interference of free trade" - in order to "win anything" in either type of case
    you'd have to show damages incurred.

    "Since you're not allowed to sell and hence profit from illegal substances,
    which Epistane most definetly is (no way it qualifies as a DSHEA compliant
    food supplement) they can't claim anything you... since they
    can't legally profit from it in the first place!

    "Epistane is a misbranded drug and while not under the purview of the DEA,
    it is under the jurisdiction of the FDA and state health officials in
    Louisiana.

    "So while they might win a case about libel/infringement of free trade,
    when it came to assess damages, they'd be forced to provide a judge with a
    detailed description of Epistane and the defense would be able to provide
    a rebut. Since it is illegal, all proceeds from sales are illegal and it
    would mean they have no claim to monetary damages from anyone they
    successfully sued.

    "The analogy used was that if hypothetically, you were selling Ectasy and I
    came along and said, "don't buy Robert's X, it is underdosed by 60% and
    isn't really even X" and then you tried to sue me for libel or infringing
    on your ability to do business. If this business is not legal to begin
    with, you can't expect the court to award you damages because I libelled
    you and say your X was bunk."

    It is also likely, if you read Collins asessment carefully, that they would not be able to sue me over any research chem issues either.

    Remember, kiddies: I own an LLC. That's a LIMITED Liability Corporation. Someone can take my corporate holdings/money, because I was acting while representing my corporation, but they can not dip into my private holdings. And that's because I thought to shield myself from this kind of thing a long time ago....
    Last edited by Property of Steroid.com; 04-18-2007 at 07:47 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts



    "The analogy used was that if hypothetically, you were selling Ectasy and I
    came along and said, "don't buy Robert's X, it is underdosed by 60% and
    isn't really even X" and then you tried to sue me for libel or infringing
    on your ability to do business. If this business is not legal to begin
    with, you can't expect the court to award you damages because I libelled
    you and say your X was bunk."

    great analogy......

    you made a good point there....



    I just think that this back and forth between you guys is a bunch of crap.....we should be able to freely have a dicussion on a product that has a mystery substance in it which is being sold out to the public (which people are comsuming with out knowing what it is ) with out this damn bickering back and forth......all I want to know is this $hit legit and is it safe to consume!!! and I mean hard facts not just he said she said or possibility .....

    sorry I'm just a little fustrated how political these damn boards can be and I felt like sharing my thoughts.....

    thanx....

    now back to the matter at hand....so does any actually know what the mystery substance is? .....

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by boostedevo8
    great analogy......

    you made a good point there....



    I just think that this back and forth between you guys is a bunch of crap.....we should be able to freely have a dicussion on a product that has a mystery substance in it which is being sold out to the public (which people are comsuming with out knowing what it is ) with out this damn bickering back and forth......all I want to know is this $hit legit and is it safe to consume!!! and I mean hard facts not just he said she said or possibility .....

    sorry I'm just a little fustrated how political these damn boards can be and I felt like sharing my thoughts.....

    thanx....

    now back to the matter at hand....so does any actually know what the mystery substance is? .....
    But...what does an attempted lawsuit against me have to do with the lab tests on an EpiStane product which I didn't even get done personally?

    Did I mention there was a second set of tests done...?

    but I do think that our forums are being used for personal battles .........FACTS should be posted on products to help the fellow members on this board but all this damn back and forth crap with all these hidden reps trying to post here is a bunch of crap! seriously this is getting out of hand........
    The facts are the lab test. The Lawsuit *** is attempting to pursue against me has nothing to do with what's in their product. It's not even close to relevant.

    As for Hidden reps...I don't think Marcus is a hidden rep. He has hit up multiple sponsors via PM to try to get discounts and freebies on their products...promoting his "vet" status and the claim that he is a personal trainer in England, to try to get discounts and free stuff. If something has changed since he was doing that, I don't know, but if he were a rep, he likely wouldn't be hitting up every sponsor for a handout. Then again, maybe he has finally gotten one, and is acting on behalf of whoever gave it to him. I don't know.
    Last edited by Property of Steroid.com; 04-18-2007 at 08:06 AM.

  22. #22
    Also...use some common sense...if I comitted a Crime in NJ (even on the internet), how can they bring me to Loiusiana to prosecute me? The crime occured in NJ...look up the precedents...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    Also...use some common sense......


    easy there .....no need to huff and puff......I asked for you to comment so that I can hear your side........

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by boostedevo8
    easy there .....no need to huff and puff......I asked for you to comment so that I can hear your side........
    My side of what, though? The lawsuit? It's idiotic. But it's not relevant to this thread. This should be about a product, and not me (at all). I reported a lab test, so therefore ***'s lawsuit with me is now relevant to the fact that they were producing a terrible product, according to lab tests?

    I'm not getting huffy, sorry if it seemed that way...but in one breath you said that you wanted the facts, and in the next you are asking about something kind of not relevant...

    You know?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    I'm not getting huffy, sorry if it seemed that way...but in one breath you said that you wanted the facts, and in the next you are asking about something kind of not relevant...

    You know?
    I get you ,well I just wanted to hear your side of the story with the law suit issue and I said I wanted the facts in regards to the epistane mystery substance....


    better?

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by boostedevo8
    I get you ,well I just wanted to hear your side of the story with the law suit issue and I said I wanted the facts in regards to the epistane mystery substance....


    better?
    Well...my side of the lawsuit issue is that I'm not going to respond to their legal papers. I don't think they can subpeona me (force me to go defend the case), so I'm not even going to bother with it.

    I'm not a lawyer, so I have no idea if that's correct, but I know that I wasn't issued a summons, and when the papers were sent, they went to my parents house, where I do not live, and they were improperly addressed. I don't live there, so the papers (which required a signature) were just returned to sender.

    If you're really interested, do a search for "Anthony Roberts" and "Whacked" and you can see some other stuff where they threatened me, and had one of their employees come and try to explain themselves...then for extra laughs, check out my blog post where I reprint all the e-mails they sent to me, including their lawyer's...

    Also: Proof their Rep Lied to the members of steroid.com (screenshot included).

  27. #27
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    yeah you mentioned it

  28. #28
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    wasn't talking about marcus bein a rep...I meant the guy with the 4 posts lol

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by boostedevo8
    wasn't talking about marcus bein a rep...I meant the guy with the 4 posts lol
    OOps. I guess I gave out too much info, huh?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    OOps. I guess I gave out too much info, huh?

    hahaha well I guess you got a free B on that one since you 2 are always going at it

    lmao

  31. #31
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    I feel like theres a lot of AR bashing on this website for some reason. and its rediculous. obviously hes a good guy. Hes posting information that has value to everyone in this community. A bunk product needs to be known, or you can get scammed. do you like be scammed?

    I didnt think so.

    Why are you people arguing that hes not telling "the whole story". He posted f*cking lab reports. lab test dont lie!

    Anothony you have my full support bro. A lot of people on this website feel like they need to be tough over the internet for some reason. some classic arguing and debating is ok in my book, but when u start bashing a person because you "dont like" them, and ecspecially doing it over the internet....well your just the fool.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.Biz
    I feel like theres a lot of AR bashing on this website for some reason. and its rediculous. obviously hes a good guy. Hes posting information that has value to everyone in this community. A bunk product needs to be known, or you can get scammed. do you like be scammed?

    I didnt think so.

    Why are you people arguing that hes not telling "the whole story". He posted f*cking lab reports. lab test dont lie!

    Anothony you have my full support bro. A lot of people on this website feel like they need to be tough over the internet for some reason. some classic arguing and debating is ok in my book, but when u start bashing a person because you "dont like" them, and ecspecially doing it over the internet....well your just the fool.
    They have lab reports saying 99% pure, Roberts really wants to damage this Company so dont you think something might of happen to his stuff he had tested?? come on think about it.

    he had the links disabled but if you pm me i will direct you to the site were you can read the full story and all the links. makes very intresting reading, they wouldnt be going to court if they didnt have evidence.

    pm me i will send them to you

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300
    They have lab reports saying 99% pure, Connors really wants to damage this Company so dont you think something might of happen to his stuff he had tested?? come on think about it.

    he had the links disabled but if you pm me i will direct you to the site were you can read the full story and all the links. makes very intresting reading, they wouldnt be going to court if they didnt have evidence.

    pm me i will send them to you
    Umm...I didn't have anything disabled. You can't outlink to that site.

    Also...I never touched the lab test, nor the product, nor did the person who got them tested (Mike). The product which was tested was never in Mike's posession...read the COC letter in the test.

    The bottle was never touched by the person who paid for the sample to be sent in.

    As far as going to court, I sincerely doubt that. But hey....multiple lawyers could be wrong, I suppose.

  34. #34
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    Very ridiculous discussion. In order for this to be valid, you would have to test every single product on the market, including AAS and performance products. Instead people are popping pills and injecting left and right, going by word of mouth mostly.

    It is a bit too convenient to me that some people are in the middle of a controversy for company they don't align with.

    Now, that one product is in the open, the company should address any outstanding issues.

    For those that took Epi, what was the feedback? Were people happy with the results? I mean, now everybody is crying murder after all this mess came to light.

    Are we able to establish that the test itself was inconclusive? There are some questions surrounding the reference sample, how things were tested, margin or error and the like.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by finny
    Very ridiculous discussion. In order for this to be valid, you would have to test every single product on the market, including AAS and performance products. Instead people are popping pills and injecting left and right, going by word of mouth mostly.

    It is a bit too convenient to me that some people are in the middle of a controversy for company they don't align with.

    Now, that one product is in the open, the company should address any outstanding issues.

    For those that took Epi, what was the feedback? Were people happy with the results? I mean, now everybody is crying murder after all this mess came to light.

    Are we able to establish that the test itself was inconclusive? There are some questions surrounding the reference sample, how things were tested, margin or error and the like.
    How can there be marginal error if they dont even no whats really in the product?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.Biz
    How can there be marginal error if they dont even no whats really in the product?
    Wasn't there a mention that they referenced it against test? There are other questions regarding the test and I would suggest you go and read about it.

    Everyone seems to be focusing on the little things. Look at the big picture, supplements in general, and individual use. As I said, ridiculous. People will have to get past this 'she said, he said' business.

    For the record, never took Epistane and probably never will.

    Edit: used their other products and I'm happy so far.

  37. #37
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    So after reading all the links and stuff, what i have concluded is thats its 2 people with 2 very different opnions. and 2 different sides backing up the other, when no one really no whats going down at all. its all speculation. someones no telling the whole truth. But lawsuits? Why? Anthony has every right to expose a fraudulent company as do any of us.

    But im seeing no results from ********* Where are the tests to prove that there product is legit? all im seeing is a bunch of links that showed me that ********* has filed a lawsuit again connors. and other links that show me why they filed lawsuits again him.

    so what if he talked about bad about the company? people talk bad about companys all the time! it how buisness is run. Its how certian comapnys get ahead, and its also why companys fail. If your legit you make it, if your not legit you fail. (Unless your muscletech ) so there suing for false claims? Obviously this company has somthing to hide if there suing anthony over somthing as small as this. if there products were actully legit these posts by connors would have no merit. but obviously they do have merit because they are stirring huge amount of controversy.

    The way I see it is this company is heading for the sh*t house and they dont what to do. so there suing someone to try and get back there good rep. but unfortunetly it doesnt look like its going to work.


    Just my 2 pennies
    Last edited by K.Biz; 04-18-2007 at 10:43 AM.

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    277
    Maybe this thread should be closed?

    For those interested, *be has issued a statement on their forum.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by finny
    Maybe this thread should be closed?

    For those interested, *be has issued a statement on their forum.
    *BE has pissed off so many decent people in the community that I've actually had multiple offers of legal council, sent to me from a few lawyers.

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    In the Gym, if i could
    Posts
    15,927
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    *BE has pissed off so many decent people in the community that I've actually had multiple offers of legal council, sent to me from a few lawyers.
    Did i read somewhere that Collins is representing you?? trying to confirm
    The answer to your every question

    Rules

    A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted
    to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially
    one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.


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    I will not do source checks for you, the peer review from other members should be enough to help you make a decision on your quest. Buyer beware.
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