Questions re. first cycle-i'm ready to get nailed!

[browboy]

I will try to keep this as brief as possible. First off, I appreciate any information, suggestions, reproof, etc. that anyone gives. I've been checkin out this site for some time now, and I know many can be pretty blunt-but I can take it. Just lookin for some good info.

I am 41. I have been working out consistently for 3 years now. First year and half plus was working with a personal trainer to give me a good solid plan and learn proper techniques. Also, gave me a solid diet plan, etc. which I still adhere to pretty well. I started out at around 165 and ended up around 185. I am a hard gainer, and always have been. Was pretty happy with those results but was wanting more lean mass and lower bf% (I am 5'11 and also trying really hard to keep the spare tire at a minimum!) I finished with the trainer, and joined a new gym where I have been at for about 9 months now. Work out alone now, so its a bit harder to really push it without a partner.

So, after doing some research-and admittedly probably not as much as I should have, I got some gear and have been on a "progressive" cycle. It has been as follows;
600mg per week EQ (went with that due to the slower gain, but fact that you keep the major protion of it when you go off was what I was looking for. Have been on that for nine weeks now)
50mg eod Winny-been on that for 5 weeks now
250mg per week test eth-just started this week
50mg Dianabol tablets each day-just started 8/16, thinking I will do that for four weeks.

I have three weeks left on the eq, and was thinking about another two weeks of winny, and three weeks worth of the test.

Okay, so having said all that, thus far, I haven't been really impressed with the results. I would add that I have been on finastride for a year and a half to promote hair health. Not bald and don't want to be. I did read that it can inhibit effectiveness to some degree. Looking for comments regarding the cycle, thoughts on its seemingly lack of success (maybe i have too high and expectation. I have read that the eq takes a while) and as I am coming to an end of this cycle, what should I be doing in regard to pct? I haven't experienced any side effects thus far, other than a funny taste in my mouth when I first started the eq which lasted a couple weeks. When I end the cycle should I just see what happens or be proactive with some type of treatment.

My final thought/question would be suggestions for a 2nd cycle if I choose to do one. Again, I really have not been impressed so far and haven't experienced great results by any means. Considering the health risk, legal issues, cost, pain in my butt, etc., if this is all I can expect, I will not do another cycle and just stick to la-natural with some nos, creatin, etc.

Okay, I know that wasn't really brief, but wanted to give the details. So fire away! I have a feeling I am gonna get blasted, but hopefully it will be with helpful info that I can learn from.

[SilverToungedDevil]

what was your diet like on your cycle... and what exactly was your goal. also what is your training regime.

[browboy]

what was your diet like on your cycle... and what exactly was your goal. also what is your training regime.

Diet has been pretty high caloric intake, around 3500ish, eating five times per day, but smaller portions. Low carbs. Fruit, almonds, chicken, tuna, fish, some red meat. Protein drink (Nu-Tex Pro5 w/oatmeal) twice a day, one @ 10am and then after workout. This diet has been pretty consistent over last couple years.

My goal is to get more mass, would like to put on another 15lbs, but have it be lean mass. Size, but cut. Obviously along the way, increasing strength too.

Training is 4-5 days a week. (although I am considering going to a every other day routine. I am told I am not getting enough rest time) Routine last 1hr 15 to 1 1/2 depending on what day. Groups days as follows; chest, shoulders, legs, arms, with each day also hitting some abs. Currently and for some time now, I have stayed off of cardio as I don't want to burn muscle. Routine is fairly heavy weights (for me of course) with 3-4 sets each exercise with 10 reps. Higher reps on abs and some legs stuff.

[Second2None]

Diet has been pretty high caloric intake, around 3500ish, eating five times per day, but smaller portions. Low carbs. Fruit, almonds, chicken, tuna, fish, some red meat. Protein drink (Nu-Tex Pro5 w/oatmeal) twice a day, one @ 10am and then after workout. This diet has been pretty consistent over last couple years.

My goal is to get more mass, would like to put on another 15lbs, but have it be lean mass. Size, but cut. Obviously along the way, increasing strength too.

Training is 4-5 days a week. (although I am considering going to a every other day routine. I am told I am not getting enough rest time) Routine last 1hr 15 to 1 1/2 depending on what day. Groups days as follows; chest, shoulders, legs, arms, with each day also hitting some abs. Currently and for some time now, I have stayed off of cardio as I don't want to burn muscle. Routine is fairly heavy weights (for me of course) with 3-4 sets each exercise with 10 reps. Higher reps on abs and some legs stuff.

My work out routine is
Mon: Chest,shoulder,tri
Tue: back & bi
Wed: cardio,legs
Thur: same as mon
Fri: same as tue
sat & sun eat,rest
as for your cycle your all over the place with it
imo end what you are doing now start pct and dont start 2nd cycle until you have everything you need all of it & plan it out
find out what works for you, alot of people dont like deca and the first thing they will tell you is , there goes you nat. test levels that is 1 thing not that bad and but there is a couple that are good, so imo the good out weighs the bad. EQ is like a pellet gun as deca is like a bazokaa!!
imo stay off for the same amont of time you have been on
start
week 1-12wks 750mg test E
week 1-10wks 300-400mg deca
week 1-5 40mg dbol everyday
then pct

and eat like a hog but clean,lots of rest,and proper training & drink alot of water

[browboy]

My work out routine is
Mon: Chest,shoulder,tri
Tue: back & bi
Wed: cardio,legs
Thur: same as mon
Fri: same as tue
sat & sun eat,rest
as for your cycle your all over the place with it
imo end what you are doing now start pct and dont start 2nd cycle until you have everything you need all of it & plan it out
find out what works for you, alot of people dont like deca and the first thing they will tell you is , there goes you nat. test levels that is 1 thing not that bad and but there is a couple that are good, so imo the good out weighs the bad. EQ is like a pellet gun as deca is like a bazokaa!!
imo stay off for the same amont of time you have been on
start
week 1-12wks 750mg test E
week 1-10wks 300-400mg deca
week 1-5 40mg dbol everyday
then pct

and eat like a hog but clean,lots of rest,and proper training & drink alot of water

Hey bro,
Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. Not to sound totally stupid, but explain IMO? Also, I have heard and read that deca will put on much more mass, again, I was thinking the eq as I am not looking to put on major gains, but moderate and with lower fat and leaner. So when I do a 2nd cycle-if I do cause honestly right now I am kind of scared out of my ass-should I just start all over again, and do test e only or maybe add the dbol as a kick, or do the cycle you described, but replace the deca with eq?

[Johnny Blazin]

Looks like a mess to me. Why did you start test-e now at the end of your cycle? I don't understand it. By the 4th week when it kicks in your going to stop it.

[browboy]

Looks like a mess to me. Why did you start test-e now at the end of your cycle? I don't understand it. By the 4th week when it kicks in your going to stop it.

Okay, so should I stop the test since I have only done one inj? I have enough for 9 more weeks at the 250mgs, should I run that out, or hold off competely and maybe use it for another cycle?

[millionairemurph]

Most peoples advice is to include test with every cycle ( during the whole length) to prohibit possible sexual disfunction. Also test is a great base to any stack, will make you grow.
Yes you need pct. Anthony roberts has a great article on it.
What are your gains so far on this cycle?

[browboy]

Most peoples advice is to include test with every cycle ( during the whole length) to prohibit possible sexual disfunction. Also test is a great base to any stack, will make you grow.
Yes you need pct. Anthony roberts has a great article on it.
What are your gains so far on this cycle?

Thanks for the referral on the article. Read it, very interesting. In your opinion, should I stop the cycle now, get the pct stuff, and start it? Or order it, and when it arrives, stop the cycle.

Gains thus far have not been great, maybe 5-10lbs. Strenght is up, and definately feel harder.

Any other thoughts? After reading the response-which I do appreciate-I am thinking I should just end it now, and go from there.

[Kratos]

cycle looks really f-ed up and haphazard.

[PEWN]

[ottomaddox]

You need to start over. Research pct. Too many problems, don't know where to start with you?

[d_nelly78]

Weird and complicated cycle. Is the reason you are adding that stuff now because you did not have it when you started. If so the rule of thumb is to never start a cycle unless you alrady have all the gear and PCT already. Also, is this your first cycle? Test should be all you need for the first cycle. I have done a EQ/test cycle and the gains were not huge but the quality of gains was better. I saw more mass from test e only but was hard as a rock from test prop and eq. My plans are to run EQ and test next cycle.

[browboy]

Weird and complicated cycle. Is the reason you are adding that stuff now because you did not have it when you started. If so the rule of thumb is to never start a cycle unless you alrady have all the gear and PCT already. Also, is this your first cycle? Test should be all you need for the first cycle. I have done a EQ/test cycle and the gains were not huge but the quality of gains was better. I saw more mass from test e only but was hard as a rock from test prop and eq. My plans are to run EQ and test next cycle.

Short answer is yes. I originally ordered the eq and winny. Received the eq and then the win later. It was suggested that since this was my first, to start with the eq and then add the win to see how I reacted to it. As I did further research, that was when I ordered the test and dbol especially since I really wasn't seeing much from the other two. Admittedly, I jumped in prematurely, but the question now is what to do? Stop everything, cleanse, and then hit it later? Finish the eq and win? Or what?

If I do that and then hit it again down the road, should I do test e only or add the dbol to it for the kick? And then should I stack it with eq or keep it simple for that one?

Thanks for the info.

[bpm1]

id stop, hit ur pct then take the appropiate time off doing research and then do a good cycle, thats wat id do

[10nispro]

i agree with bpm1.

couldnt he save the d-bol and test, do some research and use it for your next cycle with a good pct?

[Merc..]

Ok browboy,

I am glad you realized you need to do more research before you do any thing else pertaining to steroids..

Your cycle is way off, as I am willing to bet, so are your diet and training..

Taking steroids is not some magical thing that turns you into Arnold , as your are learning the hard way . It takes ALOT of work and dedication to get into good shape and it does not come from a vial or bottle ..

I would STOP your cycle now and go into PCT... I suggest Hookers pct protocol ( please click the link in my signature to check it out)..

You need to really just concentrate on incorporating the proper diet / training protocols as thats whats going to get you where you what to be.... So just stick with that and research steroids and learn everything you can (this site is great for that) and than way down the road you can make a educated decision if you think its for you or not...

Hope this helps.... I missed this thread but happened to see your post in the steroid book thread...


Merc.

[browboy]

Ok browboy,

I am glad you realized you need to do more research before you do any thing else pertaining to steroids..

Your cycle is way off, as I am willing to bet, so are your diet and training..

Taking steroids is not some magical thing that turns you into Arnold , as your are learning the hard way . It takes ALOT of work and dedication to get into good shape and it does not come from a vial or bottle ..

I would STOP your cycle now and go into PCT... I suggest Hookers pct protocol ( please click the link in my signature to check it out)..

You need to really just concentrate on incorporating the proper diet / training protocols as thats whats going to get you where you what to be.... So just stick with that and research steroids and learn everything you can (this site is great for that) and than way down the road you can make a educated decision if you think its for you or not...

Hope this helps.... I missed this thread but happened to see your post in the steroid book thread...


Merc.

Merc,

First off, thanks so much for your response. Honestly I am a little freaked out right at the moment, but want to do what is best. I did not see the pct program that you mentioned. Where exactly can I find it? Also, did you look at my original post? I am curious if you did or not and would still have the same opinion in regard to my work out and diet. I certainly am not so nieve as to think that muscle magically appears. I have been working hard for quite some time now, but was looking to ogment my program to get some additional quality gains. Not looking to get huge, just have been a hard gainer, and figured I would give it a shot...no pun intended.

I realize that my research was lame at best, and really started doing more in depth research AFTER I had already started the "cycle".

Thanks again, anything else you might think to add would be appreciated.

[Merc..]

Merc,

First off, thanks so much for your response. Honestly I am a little freaked out right at the moment, but want to do what is best. I did not see the pct program that you mentioned. Where exactly can I find it? Also, did you look at my original post? I am curious if you did or not and would still have the same opinion in regard to my work out and diet. I certainly am not so nieve as to think that muscle magically appears. I have been working hard for quite some time now, but was looking to ogment my program to get some additional quality gains. Not looking to get huge, just have been a hard gainer, and figured I would give it a shot...no pun intended.

I realize that my research was lame at best, and really started doing more in depth research AFTER I had already started the "cycle".

Thanks again, anything else you might think to add would be appreciated.

Heres the pct link..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758

I did read your post about diet and please dont take it the wrong way as I just want to be able to try and help you out..

Ok,

You said your diet has been very consistent and that right there is part of your problem IMO .. You will achieve much better results when using diet and training protocols that keep the body confused. Following the same exact diet and training protocols is not as effective.. You will achieve greater results when keeping the body confused. Reason begin the body adapts to things very quickly and you have to use certain protocols to keep the body confused by regularly adjusting your diet.. This also pertains to training , the body very quickly adapts to the diet and training your doing...

Did the diet / training program your personal trainer gave you have you training and eating basically the same way everyday???

Or does it include different meal plans?? And suggestions on how and when to switch your training protocols ???

Just from reading your thread I feel the problem lies in this area ( plus your cycle was no good which wasn't helping )

Merc.

[browboy]

Heres the pct link..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758

I did read your post about diet and please dont take it the wrong way as I just want to be able to try and help you out..

Ok,

You said your diet has been very consistent and that right there is part of your problem IMO .. You will achieve much better results when using diet and training protocols that keep the body confused. Following the same exact diet and training protocols is not as effective.. You will achieve greater results when keeping the body confused. Reason begin the body adapts to things very quickly and you have to use certain protocols to keep the body confused by regularly adjusting your diet.. This also pertains to training , the body very quickly adapts to the diet and training your doing...

Did the diet / training program your personal trainer gave you have you training and eating basically the same way everyday???

Or does it include different meal plans?? And suggestions on how and when to switch your training protocols ???

Just from reading your thread I feel the problem lies in this area ( plus your cycle was no good which wasn't helping )

Merc.

Merc,
Hate to keep bothering you, but I also ordered the steriod cleanse that is listed on this site and in the book. I am not in need of it for testing purposes, so should I use it as part of my pct or not?

Also, how much should I change my work out routine during the pct and how? Ligther weights w/high rep, still stay with what I was doing, go heavier etc. Looked back in book and honestly it is a bit confusing.

Browboy

[browboy]

Heres the pct link..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758

I did read your post about diet and please dont take it the wrong way as I just want to be able to try and help you out..

Ok,

You said your diet has been very consistent and that right there is part of your problem IMO .. You will achieve much better results when using diet and training protocols that keep the body confused. Following the same exact diet and training protocols is not as effective.. You will achieve greater results when keeping the body confused. Reason begin the body adapts to things very quickly and you have to use certain protocols to keep the body confused by regularly adjusting your diet.. This also pertains to training , the body very quickly adapts to the diet and training your doing...

Did the diet / training program your personal trainer gave you have you training and eating basically the same way everyday???

Or does it include different meal plans?? And suggestions on how and when to switch your training protocols ???

Just from reading your thread I feel the problem lies in this area ( plus your cycle was no good which wasn't helping )

Merc.

Merc,
Just wanted to also get back with you and respond to your questions and thoughts. First off, don't be apologetic in anyway! I so totally appreciate all your information, I just wanted to be sure that you had all the info-with details-from the original post. Yes, the trainer set me up on a very consistent diet and w/o plan. I know that I need to change it up, and have to a certain degree, but need to do more of that. I am learning that too!

I rush ordered the stuff for the pct, and should have it all by tomorrow or Wed the lastest and will start asap. In the meantime, I have stopped everything else. I did e-mail you direct to inquire about whether I should do the steriodcleanse product as part of the pct or not? I don't need it for testing purposes, just thought maybe it would be good to flush everything out. I am still doing protein drinks, and was gonna start back doing nos and creatine. Good idea on those three or no on all or some? Lastly, during pct, how much should the w/o routine change and in what ways?

Thanks again, you have no idea how much I appreciate the help!

[browboy]

bump

[Merc..]

Merc,
Just wanted to also get back with you and respond to your questions and thoughts. First off, don't be apologetic in anyway! I so totally appreciate all your information, I just wanted to be sure that you had all the info-with details-from the original post. Yes, the trainer set me up on a very consistent diet and w/o plan. I know that I need to change it up, and have to a certain degree, but need to do more of that. I am learning that too!

I rush ordered the stuff for the pct, and should have it all by tomorrow or Wed the lastest and will start asap. In the meantime, I have stopped everything else. I did e-mail you direct to inquire about whether I should do the steriodcleanse product as part of the pct or not? I don't need it for testing purposes, just thought maybe it would be good to flush everything out. I am still doing protein drinks, and was gonna start back doing nos and creatine. Good idea on those three or no on all or some? Lastly, during pct, how much should the w/o routine change and in what ways?

Thanks again, you have no idea how much I appreciate the help!

IMO means in my opinion !!!

I did not get a email from you......Did you use the correct address ??

It is not necessary to use the cleanse for your pct... I would just hold on to it for now.

You can use creatine during your pct if you want to. ANd no problem on using protein supplements.

During your PCT you need to lower the volume and intensity of your training regimen

Merc.

[sonnygll]

Just do enough cardio for heart health. You want to try to keep your gains during PCT. NOS is ok for PCT. I didn't really get anything out of it though. Just lower volume, intensity will lower itself. Tribulus helps raise natural test during PCT. That's a good one to add.

[Merc..]

Just do enough cardio for heart health. You want to try to keep your gains during PCT. NOS is ok for PCT. I didn't really get anything out of it though. Just lower volume, intensity will lower itself. Tribulus helps raise natural test during PCT. That's a good one to add.

I would not use tribulus !!!!! It raises estrogen !!!

See this thread . Look at the last 12 post or so when we start discussing tribulus ...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=311318


Merc.

[sonnygll]

I never had that problem. But good to know. It's still a little sketchy, but looks like it at least causes problems for some people.

I'll have to see if I can find a definitive article on this with some solid research.

[Merc..]

I never had that problem. But good to know. It's still a little sketchy, but looks like it at least causes problems for some people.

I'll have to see if I can find a definitive article on this with some solid research.

There is alot of info on this !!!!!

Did you read the link to thread I posted ? And if so also make sure to look at the thread I started on this over a year ago...

Merc.

[browboy]

There is alot of info on this !!!!!

Did you read the link to thread I posted ? And if so also make sure to look at the thread I started on this over a year ago...

Merc.

Dude, can I like buy you dinner or somethin! lol I really appreciate the info. How long should I keep the lower intensity w/o? During the entire pct? Also with the Nolva, can i inject the same as the other gear? In the glutes. I know the other is a liquid. At least the one I ordered it.

Also, maybe I am crazy, but w/o today felt hard and I pretty much felt like @*#@. I'm guessin just an off day or maybe in my head. Is it possible that I am already feeling a "down" from coming off? Pct stuff should be here tomorrow or Wed at the latest, gonna start them as soon as I get them. Oh yeah, do I run the pct for the same length (basically 9 weeks on the eq, only 5 on the winny) as the cycle. 9 weeks?

Lastly, started getting some pain-thinkin maybe tendon pain-in the left elbow in the last two weeks. Felt it a little more today during w/o. I know that some of the stuff I've read talks about that as a possible side. Do you find that true with the eq or win? Anything I should be doing for it?

I owe you big time bro!

Browboy

[browboy]

Dude, can I like buy you dinner or somethin! lol I really appreciate the info. How long should I keep the lower intensity w/o? During the entire pct? Also with the Nolva, can i inject the same as the other gear? In the glutes. I know the other is a liquid. At least the one I ordered it.

Also, maybe I am crazy, but w/o today felt hard and I pretty much felt like @*#@. I'm guessin just an off day or maybe in my head. Is it possible that I am already feeling a "down" from coming off? Pct stuff should be here tomorrow or Wed at the latest, gonna start them as soon as I get them. Oh yeah, do I run the pct for the same length (basically 9 weeks on the eq, only 5 on the winny) as the cycle. 9 weeks?

Lastly, started getting some pain-thinkin maybe tendon pain-in the left elbow in the last two weeks. Felt it a little more today during w/o. I know that some of the stuff I've read talks about that as a possible side. Do you find that true with the eq or win? Anything I should be doing for it?

I owe you big time bro!

Browboy

Bump

[Merc..]

Dude, can I like buy you dinner or somethin! lol I really appreciate the info. How long should I keep the lower intensity w/o? During the entire pct? Also with the Nolva, can i inject the same as the other gear? In the glutes. I know the other is a liquid. At least the one I ordered it.

Also, maybe I am crazy, but w/o today felt hard and I pretty much felt like @*#@. I'm guessin just an off day or maybe in my head. Is it possible that I am already feeling a "down" from coming off? Pct stuff should be here tomorrow or Wed at the latest, gonna start them as soon as I get them. Oh yeah, do I run the pct for the same length (basically 9 weeks on the eq, only 5 on the winny) as the cycle. 9 weeks?

Lastly, started getting some pain-thinkin maybe tendon pain-in the left elbow in the last two weeks. Felt it a little more today during w/o. I know that some of the stuff I've read talks about that as a possible side. Do you find that true with the eq or win? Anything I should be doing for it?

I owe you big time bro!

Browboy

HOLD UP .. The nolva you are getting is liquid but you dont inject it..( it is not sterile ) ....

Sounds like what your saying is in your head . dont over think it.

Just follow hookers pct . He advises 6 wk in his protocol .

You can do a search on super cissus for possible help with tendons .. It is a over the counter supplement ..

Merc.

[browboy]

HOLD UP .. The nolva you are getting is liquid but you dont inject it..( it is not sterile ) ....

Sounds like what your saying is in your head . dont over think it.

Just follow hookers pct . He advises 6 wk in his protocol .

You can do a search on super cissus for possible help with tendons .. It is a over the counter supplement ..

Merc.

Got it! Yeah I guess I just assumed the nolva was an injectable. I will check into cissus.

Thanks

[browboy]

HOLD UP .. The nolva you are getting is liquid but you dont inject it..( it is not sterile ) ....

Sounds like what your saying is in your head . dont over think it.

Just follow hookers pct . He advises 6 wk in his protocol .

You can do a search on super cissus for possible help with tendons .. It is a over the counter supplement ..

Merc.

Merc,
Picked up the super cissus today, thanks. Also received the Tamox in the mail today, other should arrive tomorrow. They are both liquids, Tamox 50ml 20mg/mL. How do I dose these? X amount of squirts, every day all at the same time, or x in am and x in pm? Once again, wanting to ask and not guess. Been doin to much of that!

[Second2None]

1.bro you dont inject the nolva you probally got it from arr/lion, its a spray bottle 2.pct for four weeks. 3.some people complain on winny and joint pain
http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=104
go here and research more & if you dont know the answer to a question, ASK, dont guess

[browboy]

1.bro you dont inject the nolva you probally got it from arr/lion, its a spray bottle 2.pct for four weeks. 3.some people complain on winny and joint pain
http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=104
go here and research more & if you dont know the answer to a question, ASK, dont guess

Yes, I did get the nolva from arr/lion. I just assumed it was gonna come as an injectable. Thanks for the info, I really appreciate all that you guys have helped me with.

[browboy]

1.bro you dont inject the nolva you probally got it from arr/lion, its a spray bottle 2.pct for four weeks. 3.some people complain on winny and joint pain
http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=104
go here and research more & if you dont know the answer to a question, ASK, dont guess

Hey bro,
Got the nolva (Tamox) today. Its 50mL 20mg/mL. How do I dose this? x amount-squirts-each day, do them all at once, or x in am and x in pm? Just dont want to be guessin! Been doin to much of that lately. How bout with the Am also? It should be here tomorrow. Got in on the length of the pct, might actually go six weeks. And got some super cis for the joint paint.
Thanks again.

[PEWN]

Dude, can I like buy you dinner or somethin! lol I really appreciate the info. How long should I keep the lower intensity w/o? During the entire pct? Also with the Nolva, can i inject the same as the other gear? In the glutes. I know the other is a liquid. At least the one I ordered it.

whoa do not inject please for the love of god......

[browboy]

whoa do not inject please for the love of god......

Yeah, got it. Third times a charm!!!

Thanks

[sonnygll]

Yea, Merc, I read through it. Some good anecdotal evidence showing possible problems with some people. Nothing real concrete though. I searched as well and was not able to find anything. But if someone wants to use it, taking a low dose of arimidex with it would be a good idea just to be on the safe side.

[Second2None]

ive never used arr's nolva, i used the pill form, Merc shall know