If You Dont Believe In God...

[Tock]

I can't say that I beleive in anything, but Determinism makes a lot of sense to me.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04756c.htm

The Catholic Church gives it a pretty good write-up, because it makes a lot of sense to their theologians too, but they can't bring themselves to overtly endorse it, because in their words:


The notions of responsibility, moralobligation, merit, and the like, as ordinarily understood, would be illusory if Determinism were true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

well, I dont have to time to go into anything right now. Ill get to that and the PMs later on.

btw, Im more on the non believer side if anything

also, this wasnt meant to be some big argument or anything, so just keep it cool ev1

[RANA]

well, I dont have to time to go into anything right now. Ill get to that and the PMs later on.

btw, Im more on the non believer side if anything

also, this wasnt meant to be some big argument or anything, so just keep it cool ev1

Come on BIGSEXY, how could you think this wasn't going to start a big argument? This will last for a few days, I think at least one person will get banned before the weekend is over.

[Logan13]

well, I dont have to time to go into anything right now. Ill get to that and the PMs later on.

btw, Im more on the non believer side if anything

also, this wasnt meant to be some big argument or anything, so just keep it cool ev1

turned into an interesting discussion.

[Logan13]

I can't say that I beleive in anything, but Determinism makes a lot of sense to me.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04756c.htm

The Catholic Church gives it a pretty good write-up, because it makes a lot of sense to their theologians too, but they can't bring themselves to overtly endorse it, because in their words:


The notions of responsibility, moralobligation, merit, and the like, as ordinarily understood, would be illusory if Determinism were true.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

sound like humanism to me.

[Tock]

I can't say that I beleive in anything, but Determinism makes a lot of sense to me.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04756c.htm

sound like humanism to me.

Yah, well, it's not.

[Logan13]

Yah, well, it's not.

you are correct. Determinism = humanism + victimism.........

[Tock]

you are correct. Determinism = humanism + victimism.........

Not quite, but you win the runner's-up award for dogged persistance: a trip to the Antipodes!

[FREAK]

not me

[Lexed]

not me

*scratches of the list*

[Lexed]

I believe in unicorns and lepercons but since you cant prove that there not real then they could be real

[DSM4Life]

I believe in unicorns and lepercons but since you cant prove that there not real then they could be real

[Kingweb50]

I dont know what I believe in would be called but I believe in evolution of man but I think there is a god that started it all off but then let nature take its course.

[DSM4Life]

I think there is a god that started it all off but then let nature take its course.

Sounds right, a man creates the mess and leaves it for the women to try and clean up !

[Ajc330]

there are some very interesting posts here and i enjoy reading everyone's opinions

[Mrs. Mavsluva]

Now this is my kind of thread. You know what the greatest common denominator is of those who don't believe in God within this thread? They attempt to talk about why they don't believe in God and then attempt to convince others as to why they don't believe. The fact of the matter is that all of you that don't believe will have to use your current alibi one day towards something that is far greater than yourself. And I challenge you all to stick to your story when that time comes because He'll be the only one listening. (and already is)

[scriptfactory]

Now this is my kind of thread. You know what the greatest common denominator is of those who don't believe in God within this thread? They attempt to talk about why they don't believe in God and then attempt to convince others as to why they don't believe. The fact of the matter is that all of you that don't believe will have to use your current alibi one day towards something that is far greater than yourself. And I challenge you all to stick to your story when that time comes because He'll be the only one listening. (and already is)

Do you really believe that God sits somewhere and listens to everyone's excuses? Nothing implied, I'm just curious...

[Tock]

Now this is my kind of thread. You know what the greatest common denominator is of those who don't believe in God within this thread? They attempt to talk about why they don't believe in God and then attempt to convince others as to why they don't believe.

Not at all.
Here's an excerpt from my post above:
.................................................. .....................................
I can't say that I beleive in anything, but Determinism makes a lot of sense to me. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04756c.htm
.................................................. .....................................

The fact of the matter is that all of you that don't believe will have to use your current alibi one day towards something that is far greater than yourself. And I challenge you all to stick to your story when that time comes because He'll be the only one listening. (and already is)

You don't really say anything at all in this paragraph, do you? Sounds like only a few vague threats of doom and FEAR to motivate people to beleive in a cruel and vengeful god. "Turn or Burn."
Well, tell me this: you say that since I don't beleive, I'll "have to use my current alibi one day towards something that is far greater than myself." Tell me, if you would be so kind, just exactly WTF you are talking about? Who is this Evil Boogieman that is patiently awaiting its opportunity to Torment and Torture the vast majority of humans who have ever existed on the face of this planet with unspeakable torment? And why would anyone want to worship such a vile, malignant, pestilant and sadistic blight on the universe?

[NotSmall]

Who is this Evil Boogieman that is patiently awaiting its opportunity to Torment and Torture the vast majority of humans who have ever existed on the face of this planet with unspeakable torment? And why would anyone want to worship such a vile, malignant, pestilant and sadistic blight on the universe?

This is one of my favourite posts from this thread right here!

Another thing that has always bothered me is that if God is this incredible, omnipotent, omnipresent, all knowing being who created the universe and is by all accounts completely beyond human comprehension then how come he needs us all to congregate every sunday to sing songs about how fantastic he is? - God, if you're reading this - Get over yourself buddy! What are you, some kind of egomaniac?

I do actually believe in some sort of higher power but it is a far cry from the God of organised religion.

[Beefkake31]

Haven't posted here for a little while but I couldn't resist this thread. I am so happy and glad to see logical and smart people that feel the same way as I do. And a steroid forum of all places, that has a majority of people (from this thread anyways) that don't believe in religion and don't know if god exists or not. Good to hear guys, and some of the points that were made, I always think of those points all the time, so it's good to see others on the same level.

Btw, another random and simple point worth thinking about...

If there really was a god, why wouldn't he/she/it show up and make us all believe and at the same time make the world less chaotic. And I hope no one gives me that "because he is testing you" type of crap, do the people that say that realize how insanely dumb that sounds.

And I'm not bashing the believers , if they believe fine, as long as they don't push it on to you. If anything I wish I was like them, would make me more at ease with the world but I can't believe in something that's on the same level as Santa.

[Kale]

Now this is my kind of thread. You know what the greatest common denominator is of those who don't believe in God within this thread? They attempt to talk about why they don't believe in God and then attempt to convince others as to why they don't believe. The fact of the matter is that all of you that don't believe will have to use your current alibi one day towards something that is far greater than yourself. And I challenge you all to stick to your story when that time comes because He'll be the only one listening. (and already is)

And you know all of this because ? This all comes down to one thing...... brainwashing.

[Psychotron]

I am going to comment on a few things.

1.) I have grown to reject the views of Judeo-Christian's God, mainly on the ground that on a comparative study it is no different then the other religions of history. The bible is highly influenced by men. There is a lot more to it then that, but that is the jist of it.

2.) I have moved down the spectrum from being a believer, to being a believer leaning towards agnostic, and now im agnostic leaning towards atheism. I think Dawkin gave a pretty good break down of all this in his book, and he also set out how there is a good amount of probability against god.

3.) On the doctrine of Hell. I found during my early catching with Christianity that I was disgusted with such a notion. I found no concept of it with Jews I spoke to or even in the Old Testament. As far as I could gather the punishment of sin is death, not eternal torment, god seemed to make it clear that the suffering endured would be on earth due to sin, not in some Hell. Outside that, I don't even think it is biblicaly supported. Jesus is said to came to save the entire world, not just some randoms. 1 Tim. 4:10 always reminds me of an interesting line to support this. My final thing about the bible is that if you really want to get to early christianity ignore the gospels, it is evident from the epistles of paul and early church apologists that none of them had any idea Jesus existed on the physical realm. People arent even sure if the gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Lue, John, they used to always be titled "Gospel according to ...". Anyways, if anyone is looking for a good book which takes a nuetral stance towards the debate of Christianity, and gives the general world views of Christians I reccomend Todd Allen Gates: Dialogue with a Christian Proselytizer

[BOOST]

Darwin himself stated for everything that is created there is a creator

[notus]

Darwin himself stated for everything that is created there is a creator

Does that make it true because darwin said it?

[BOOST]

Does that make it true because darwin said it?

Well it is kinda hypocritical for some to believe in his theory of evolution but not his theory about a creator. I think in out life, seeing DNA understood shows you how complex whoever made us really is, I find NOT believing in God a further fetch. The earth sits perfect, 1 degree to the left and we would burn, 1 degree to the right and we would freeze, I do not understand it but driving past a farm I see a cow and then at supper it is a steak that taste great and milk to drink, I do not understand it, but it just seems everything is perfect for us to eat, breath and live here, somebody had us in mind

[Psychotron]

The earth sits perfect, 1 degree to the left and we would burn, 1 degree to the right and we would freeze

Anthropic principle, there would bound to be somewhere some planet capable of sustaining life. I cant explain it very well, Richard Dawkins made a pretty clear explanation of it though.

I feel for the camp that says it is harder to comprehend a complex entity existing before anything else, and then something simple became from something complex without anything coming before the complex. That is, God(the complex) began our universe in a simple event(big bang), and it is hard to fathom how God(complex) existed first before all.

[duramaxedge]

weird

[Timm1704]

wow! wow! what an amazing thread! i have found myself having several religion-based debates over the holidays, I heard many viewpoints and sound theories from others, but this takes the prize.

I am an agnostic (which I learned from logans post on the topic. Cheers) and find the concept of organised religion both comical and embarrassing. I dislike attending funerals, baptisms and weddings at churches for the sole reason that there is some dude dressed up like a wedding cake TELLING me that god said this, jesus did that, and addressing it as FACT. I cant help feel insulted, amused, and like Im too smart to be in the building.

I appreciate how people may need religion in their lives, as a means to cope with loss, and to give them a sense of worth and direction, and although I stated above that I feel "too smart to be in the building" whilst at church, that is not arrogance, it is just the immediate feeling I get which I cannot control. I have friends and family that are religious, and I respect them and their beliefs, so long as they do not preach about what god is and what he does, as it would be like me turning to them and trying to convince them that what Zippy out of Rainbow said is remotely important.

I have learned alot from this thread, and I only wish that some form of unbiased media outlet could see this kind of intelligent and well though-out discussion on a steroid board

[goodcents]

*Goodcents chokes chicken and moves to other threads*

[DSM4Life]

*Goodcents chokes chicken and moves to other threads*

[powerliftmike]

who here believes in the greek or roman gods? Like Testronous, the god of AAS

[DSM4Life]

who here believes in the greek or roman gods? Like Testronous, the god of AAS

[DSM4Life]

I just went to make toast and this is what came out of the toaster !!!!

[Ncogneato]

If God is so powerfull,...can he make a rock that he himself can not lift???

[Tock]

If God is so powerfull,...can he make a rock that he himself can not lift???

Or grow one so painful that he cannot pass?

[dece870717]

If God is so powerfull,...can he make a rock that he himself can not lift???

No he can not. God is infinite and a rock that is infinitely huge is no longer a rock so the statement isn't logical. People also have to remember just because God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere doesn't mean he can do anything. He can't lie, steal, sin, etc. Another exmaple is having infinite power can't make 2+2=5. Go ahead set a bazzilion nuclear bombs off which would be a lot of energy by the way and you still can't make 2+2=5. So you should not mix up having infinite power with being able to do anything. He can do a lot but he can't do anything.

[Ncogneato]

No he can not. God is infinite and a rock that is infinitely huge is no longer a rock so the statement isn't logical. People also have to remember just because God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere doesn't mean he can do anything. He can't lie, steal, sin, etc. Another exmaple is having infinite power can't make 2+2=5. Go ahead set a bazzilion nuclear bombs off which would be a lot of energy by the way and you still can't make 2+2=5. So you should not mix up having infinite power with being able to do anything. He can do a lot but he can't do anything.

Thanks for clearing that up.



P.S. That was a joke.

[goodcents]

[goodcents]

[Flagg]

No he can not. God is infinite and a rock that is infinitely huge is no longer a rock so the statement isn't logical. People also have to remember just because God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere doesn't mean he can do anything. He can't lie, steal, sin, etc. Another exmaple is having infinite power can't make 2+2=5. Go ahead set a bazzilion nuclear bombs off which would be a lot of energy by the way and you still can't make 2+2=5. So you should not mix up having infinite power with being able to do anything. He can do a lot but he can't do anything.

You are wrong. God is supposedly Omniscient (All Knowing) Omnipresent (Everywhere and everywhen) and Omnipotent (All Powerful) so basically He can do anything. Which means he could make 2 + 2 equate to 5 if He really wanted to. It just goes to show that infinite power is a paradox because like someone said, could God make a rock he cannot lift? Surely it's within His power to do that, but then if He couldnt lift it that means He isn't all powerful so there-in lies the paradox. Also He is supposed to be infaliable, which means He is incapable of error so it was quite hillarious that He couldn't forsee His first creations, Adam and Eve, eat from the tree of knowledge.