Short Burst Cycles

[eljugo16]

on the priming low carb days how low should you go? like contest prep status? 0.2 grams per pound or higher? and on high carb like 3grams per pound?

[marcus300]

on the priming low carb days how low should you go? like contest prep status? 0.2 grams per pound or higher? and on high carb like 3grams per pound?

Primming is a pre-cycle prime, it shouldnt be as strict as a comp diet or even close otherwise you will lose muscle tissue, the prime is part of the overall cycle, its only used to open the growth window and make a very anabolic environment for tissue to grow (with the added benefit of lossing some BF aswell).

many ways to prime and knowing how your body responds is key for results. One of the best way ive found is 3-5 days low carb 40% less than your maintenance diet then followed by 1 day high carb 15% higher than the maintenance diet, you will have to adjust the low carb days to suit your body but don't go near 7 days low carbs, a common problem with reducing carbs is that over time the metabolic rate can and will begin to adapt, when carbs stays low for an extended period of time usually at the 7 day mark and up, fat cells attempt to hold on by resisting the release of fatty acids, levels of lipoprotien lipase tend to rise and thyroid levels drop, these both effect overall basal metabolism and are part of the starvation response which off sets reductions in energy intake and is very common to muscle wastage, so adjust to your body's response but in my opinion don't go 7 days or more,keep to around 3-5days.

The one high carb day should be introduced around 3-5 day mark of low carbs, the high carb day at around day 3-5 this interrupts the starvation response which restores thyroid levels back to normal while also suppressing the fat storing enzyme lipoprotein ( which rises after day 7 of a lower carb intake) which results in no muscle tissue wastage, all this is worked off your maintanance diet, the one which holds you at your weight.

[eljugo16]

bump for more views... this is good stuff

[Pinnacle]

Here's where marcus and myself disagree. I think in order to get a great rebound, the individual should diet down as close to contest condition as possible. Going from 12 % to 8 % BF isn't all that much and your body will not be all that depleted like that of intense dieting. The rebound effect will be minimal at best, but at least you'd end the cycle in lean condition

On the flip side,I see what marcus is getting at though. Not many people know how to diet like this, so muscle loss could become a factor. People tend to drop calories far too quickly and or implement far too much cardio. Those are very common knee jerk reaction that inexperienced dieters make when trying to shed body fat.
Bottom line is experience will dictate great results. I suggest experimenting with diet as much as possible. This is how you'll learn what your body responds best to.

[Lift Chief]

another way to do this is 2 week cycles. was kind of en vogue a few years ago (and have probably come up again since then). I've done a few of them. have found them to work pretty well.

basic idea is you hit it hard and fast and stop before you're very shut down (though theres debate around how shut down you are after 2 weeks).

[eljugo16]

yea i might go somewhere a lil less than contest diet but keep those carbs low as i can

[eljugo16]

i got people pm me about this so lets give it a BUMP

[Warrior]

I like short-heavy cycling. Carb cycling for the prime is a good way to preserve muscle while losing fat... if the training variety is significant enough, you could even gain a little muscle/strength while priming... but the ultimate goal is to carve off the grissel and get ready - pent up - for the heavy stuff...

[Pinnacle]

p.s. is this pinnacle from SSB? i heard u were going threw somethings. hope everything turned out ok.

No, different Pinnacle. The one you are referring to is a source on boards, or at least used to be. I'm Pinnacle1 on boards he used to post at.

[G-1000]

Nothing crazy. Probably something like this:

1-6 T.Prop 100 to 150mg/day
1-6 Masteron 100mg/day
1-4 Anavar 80mg/day

As far as the second cycle, I'm not sure. Probably the same dosage of Prop, weeks 1-4 with 100mg/day Winstrol (oral), and not sure on the 3rd compound. I was toying with the idea of maybe a short-estered Boldenone, but who knows. I've been outta the game for about 18 months now, so I need to get in touch with my sources as to what's available for me these days...

If you'll notice, those doses may be high, but they're not crazy high like some propose. Although these have been typical doses for me in the past I'm going to test these doses out on myself, because (a) I've been clean for 18 months now, and (b) every cycle I've done in the past, I've always seen ALL of my gains in the first 6 weeks, sometimes less. The 6-8 weeks following in my older cycles, I've really seen little to no change at all, and I've always assumed that it was good to keep running it that long to "keep" my gains, but I'm wondering if I ran a cycle or two like the one I listed above, how it might go for me...

1-6 T.Prop 100 to 150mg/day
1-6 Masteron 100mg/day
1-4 Anavar 80mg/day

I agree with the test and mast in this cycle. But var i do not. you will get better results with winny. Var is to slow acting if you ask me.

[logen32]

My first cycle was Test Suspension for 6 weeks, and recovery coudnt have been better, after a week i felt i didnt need clomid or tamox, and i never had a drop in libido.

[eljugo16]

I see we got a lot of the vets posting here. Thank you guys for all the info. As a wise man once said (PINNACLE) "The more you know, the more you grow" TRUE STORY

[G-1000]

I'M sorry but we are Mods not Vet's
. The vets are Green.

[Pinnacle]

I'M sorry but we are Mods not Vet's
. The vets are Green.

Holy shit! I'm a MOD? I thought that green light meant VET?

[Pinnacle]

My first cycle was Test Suspension for 6 weeks, and recovery coudnt have been better, after a week i felt i didnt need clomid or tamox, and i never had a drop in libido.

That's how it's done bro. It allows you to get back on quickly, to make further progress.

[eljugo16]

I'M sorry but we are Mods not Vet's
. The vets are Green.

I meant vets as of your knowledge, not by your actual title on here. You guys know your shit. Iv been learning and constantly refering to this place since 04.

[Warrior]

I'M sorry but we are Mods not Vet's
. The vets are Green.

Mods? I have had several roles here... member, Vet, Mod, Super Mod and then moved to "Hall of Famer," which has no moderator rights to it at all. Those rights were taken away overnight when the annoymous Admin thing was put in... how is a Hall of Famer a Mod?

[customworksking]

killer ..info

[eljugo16]

yea it has TONS of info

[Swifto]

Keep the short 6 week cycles simple! Test and an oral are all that's needed. Trust me, I've ran countless 6 week cycles over the years. Sometimes less is more......

Hi Pin.

Do you consider a 6 week cycle, short? Is this duration what you employ to gain muscle?

Marcus do you still cycle around 6-8 weeks or normally less than that duration now?

As for priming (pre-contest) dieting, what are both of you thoughts on LBA's as a sole or primary protein source during this peroid of dieting? I know their pushed hard on various boards and Phil Hernon (as he sells them), but what are you thoughts?

[Pinnacle]

................

Hi Pin.

Do you consider a 6 week cycle, short? I think it's short in comparison to the average cycle being 12 weeks
Is this duration what you employ to gain muscle? If done correctly, which I have, you can put on modest gains in 6 weeks. It's not all about the gains made on a 6 week cycle, but more so being able to recover quickly to run another cycle. You can run 5-6 short cycles like this per year as opposed to 2 long cycles. Possibly the gains made between the 2 protocols could be indentical for some. For me, I put on far more muscle on an annual basis running 6 short 6 weeks cycle per year as opposed to running two longer 12 week cycles


As for priming (pre-contest) dieting, what are both of you thoughts on LBA's as a sole or primary protein source during this peroid of dieting? I know their pushed hard on various boards and Phil Hernon (as he sells them), but what are you thoughts?
What is LBA?

Pinnacle

[AnimalGear]

bump???

yessssssss

[eljugo16]

what is lba???? anyone???

[Swifto]

Liquid Beef Aminos.

[Swifto]

................



Pinnacle

Thank-you.

[eljugo16]

wow I think i might have heard about that once, have you used them?

[marcus300]

Hi Pin.

Marcus do you still cycle around 6-8 weeks or normally less than that duration now?

As for priming (pre-contest) dieting, what are both of you thoughts on LBA's as a sole or primary protein source during this peroid of dieting? I know their pushed hard on various boards and Phil Hernon (as he sells them), but what are you thoughts?

What i use to do was 30 days cycles or depends on compounds used sometimes i would leave it open ended but it never went longer than 6 weeks, the more intense dosage the shorter the cycle for me. But i didnt do burst dosages all the time but i did do short cycles all the time and never went over 6 wks.

Piming isn't a pre-contest dieting protocol, priming is a pre-cycle prime to open the growth window and create a very anabolic enviroment for muscle tissue to grow.

Ive heard some people talk about this Liquid Beef Aminos but ive never took any kind of notice, its all new to me and havent heard from one person who has used them, but i wouldnt used just one protein source during priming/dieting especailly liquid.

do you have some info regarding these Aminos?

[eljugo16]

yea swifto do you have any articles or anything on them?

[goose]

Reporting for duty boss,





Here is a little more info on the LBAs:

The amino acids are derived from lean cuts of beef. Cattle are raised and produced on a high protein diet under USDA inspection. Through selective process, extractions take place to insure the highest quality amino acids. With careful stabilizing and processing techniques, Pure Liquid Amino Elite is quickly absorbed into the bloodstream and utilized by the body.

Benefits Include:
- Quick-absorption delivery process
- Excellent for recovery and muscle building
- Great tasting

Supplement Facts:
Calories = 20, Protein = 5 grams, Carbohydrates = 5, Sugar Esters = 5 grams, Sodium = 48 mg

Amino Profile: Alanine 425 mg, Arginine 385 mg, Aspartic Acid 280 mg, Cystine 5 mg, Glutamic Acid 525 mg, Proline 700 mg, Glycine 1040 mg, Histidine 55 mg, Hydroxyproline 520 mg, Isoleucine 190 mg, Leucine 190 mg, Lysine 195 mg, Methionine 45 mg, Phenylalanine 120 mg, Serine 135 mg, Threonine 95 mg, Tryptophan 10 mg, Tyrosine 50 mg, Valine 145 mg


like liquid egg whites and liquid protein,this protein is absorbed instantly by your body (i.e. 100% Bio-Available) & it is also 100% natural protein. Other high protein foods like: chicken, fish, beef, and turkey, must first be broken down by your body before the proteins can be truely absorbed. The same holds true for protein powders (whey protein, milk protein etc) and engineered food & drinks. The truth is your body is only consuming about 1/3 of the actual protein of these items - the rest is wasted! this is FACT!

Now the gut problem in BB is due to HGH,but mostly to eating huge amounts.By using this type of protein you compensate this problem.The problem I have with these liquid beef,is that they are so more expensive than liquid egg whites and liquid amino.Each bottle only contains 160mg of protein,that will cost you 11 quid.For 3 quid I get a bottle of egg whites that contain 132mg of protein.With liquid amino for 12.45 you get 412mg of protein.So I would like to hear from swifto why should I buy liquid beef?? I have said this time and time again,the more money you save the more HGH you can run.Im on 12iu at the moment,taking 3iu every 4 hours.

What i use to do was 30 days cycles or depends on compounds used sometimes i would leave it open ended but it never went longer than 6 weeks, the more intense dosage the shorter the cycle for me. But i didnt do burst dosages all the time but i did do short cycles all the time and never went over 6 wks.

Piming isn't a pre-contest dieting protocol, priming is a pre-cycle prime to open the growth window and create a very anabolic enviroment for muscle tissue to grow.

Ive heard some people talk about this Liquid Beef Aminos but ive never took any kind of notice, its all new to me and havent heard from one person who has used them, but i wouldnt used just one protein source during priming/dieting especailly liquid.

do you have some info regarding these Aminos?

[marcus300]

Reporting for duty boss,





Here is a little more info on the LBAs:

The amino acids are derived from lean cuts of beef. Cattle are raised and produced on a high protein diet under USDA inspection. Through selective process, extractions take place to insure the highest quality amino acids. With careful stabilizing and processing techniques, Pure Liquid Amino Elite is quickly absorbed into the bloodstream and utilized by the body.

Benefits Include:
- Quick-absorption delivery process
- Excellent for recovery and muscle building
- Great tasting

Supplement Facts:
Calories = 20, Protein = 5 grams, Carbohydrates = 5, Sugar Esters = 5 grams, Sodium = 48 mg

Amino Profile: Alanine 425 mg, Arginine 385 mg, Aspartic Acid 280 mg, Cystine 5 mg, Glutamic Acid 525 mg, Proline 700 mg, Glycine 1040 mg, Histidine 55 mg, Hydroxyproline 520 mg, Isoleucine 190 mg, Leucine 190 mg, Lysine 195 mg, Methionine 45 mg, Phenylalanine 120 mg, Serine 135 mg, Threonine 95 mg, Tryptophan 10 mg, Tyrosine 50 mg, Valine 145 mg


like liquid egg whites and liquid protein,this protein is absorbed instantly by your body (i.e. 100% Bio-Available) & it is also 100% natural protein. Other high protein foods like: chicken, fish, beef, and turkey, must first be broken down by your body before the proteins can be truely absorbed. The same holds true for protein powders (whey protein, milk protein etc) and engineered food & drinks. The truth is your body is only consuming about 1/3 of the actual protein of these items - the rest is wasted! this is FACT!

Now the gut problem in BB is due to HGH,but mostly to eating huge amounts.By using this type of protein you compensate this problem.The problem I have with these liquid beef,is that they are so more expensive than liquid egg whites and liquid amino.Each bottle only contains 160mg of protein,that will cost you 11 quid.For 3 quid I get a bottle of egg whites that contain 132mg of protein.With liquid amino for 12.45 you get 412mg of protein.So I would like to hear from swifto why should I buy liquid beef?? I have said this time and time again,the more money you save the more HGH you can run.Im on 12iu at the moment,taking 3iu every 4 hours.

Thanks Goose, interesting and i see your point regarding the price, seems to be to be another gimmick to rip us all off-

[goose]

Thanks Goose, interesting and i see your point regarding the price, seems to be to be another gimmick to rip us all off-

The reviews look good for this product.Have you seen the price of beef in the UK? I use to pay 4 quid for for 4 pieces of sirloin steak,now its 6 quid

Got something for you,you may have known him.An old buddy of Paul.

http://www.musclenet.com/beyondfailure.htm

[eljugo16]

thats a great article

[Swifto]

I've never seen a bad review on LBA's and thats across many boards.

I'm seriously considering buying a case asap.

[eljugo16]

give it a shot and let us know what you think

[Pinnacle]

seems to be to be another gimmick to rip us all off-

Exactly! F*ck that. Nothing replaces good old fashion quality food sources.

[Pinnacle]

Piming isn't a pre-contest dieting protocol, priming is a pre-cycle prime to open the growth window and create a very anabolic enviroment for muscle tissue to grow.

The idea is to diet intensley enough that you are in a depleted state, so your body will be highly sensative to food. Dieting from 11% BF down to 8% will not ensure a great rebound effect. True, you'll start and finish your cycle leaner. If that's what you are looking to achieve , then fine. You want a really great rebound? Diet intensely and watch how you'll grow on the rebound. The whole idea was started when Dorian spoke of this rebound after coming off a contest diet. Now, lazy f*cks are just trying to make things easier for themselves. Hence the "you don't have to diet too much". Pu*sy f*cks if you ask me. You want results, you have to put in hard f*cking work. No free lunch in this sport!

Pinnacle

[eljugo16]

The idea is to diet intensley enough that you are in a depleted state, so your body will be highly sensative to food. Dieting from 11% BF down to 8% will not ensure a great rebound effect. True, you'll start and finish your cycle leaner. If that's what you are looking to achieve , then fine. You want a really great rebound? Diet intensely and watch how you'll grow on the rebound. The whole idea was started when Dorian spoke of this rebound after coming off a contest diet. Now, lazy f*cks are just trying to make things easier for themselves. Hence the "you don't have to diet too much". Pu*sy f*cks if you ask me. You want results, you have to put in hard f*cking work. No free lunch in this sport!

Pinnacle

i hear that bro... go hard or go home

[marcus300]

The idea is to diet intensley enough that you are in a depleted state, so your body will be highly sensative to food. Dieting from 11% BF down to 8% will not ensure a great rebound effect. True, you'll start and finish your cycle leaner. If that's what you are looking to achieve , then fine. You want a really great rebound? Diet intensely and watch how you'll grow on the rebound. The whole idea was started when Dorian spoke of this rebound after coming off a contest diet. Now, lazy f*cks are just trying to make things easier for themselves. Hence the "you don't have to diet too much". Pu*sy f*cks if you ask me. You want results, you have to put in hard f*cking work. No free lunch in this sport!

Pinnacle

Yes, i agree but the pre-cycle prime is alot slower over the depletion unlike contest dieting, the whole idea is to save or salvage as much muscle tissue as possible.

What ive seen are guys try this priming and total mess up there bodies and lose valuable muscle tissue, this is why i state take it easy and do it slowly and dont attack it like a contest prep, because simply it isn't a contest prep its a pre-cycle prep.

Its all comes down to what we always say Pinn- its about knowing how your own body responds to food,cardio,diet and gear.

Dorian was a huge fan of this especially after doing shows, infact i use to be with PB when he was planning his cycles/diets around his contest and DY used the rebound everytime, but DY was serious due to the conest condition he had to get in, things have move on alittle bit by simply priming for a cycle and preserving as much tissue as possible, if everybody was a diet king there would be no problems but alot are not, so this is why i state this all the time because ive seen many who mess things up by trying to lose BF to quick and lose tissue, its not about lossing BF its about creating the enviroment and opening the growth window, 2 seperate avenues contest rebound and pre-cycle priming but the over all results are both unbelievable.

[marcus300]

I've never seen a bad review on LBA's and thats across many boards.

I'm seriously considering buying a case asap.

Report back to me if you do and let me know how you get on.

[Swifto]

Yes, i agree but the pre-cycle prime is alot slower over the depletion unlike contest dieting, the whole idea is to save or salvage as much muscle tissue as possible.

What ive seen are guys try this priming and total mess up there bodies and lose valuable muscle tissue, this is why i state take it easy and do it slowly and dont attack it like a contest prep, because simply it isn't a contest prep its a pre-cycle prep.

Its all comes down to what we always say Pinn- its about knowing how your own body responds to food,cardio,diet and gear.

Dorian was a huge fan of this especially after doing shows, infact i use to be with PB when he was planning his cycles/diets around his contest and DY used the rebound everytime, but DY was serious due to the conest condition he had to get in, things have move on alittle bit by simply priming for a cycle and preserving as much tissue as possible, if everybody was a diet king there would be no problems but alot are not, so this is why i state this all the time because ive seen many who mess things up by trying to lose BF to quick and lose tissue, its not about lossing BF its about creating the enviroment and opening the growth window, 2 seperate avenues contest rebound and pre-cycle priming but the over all results are both unbelievable.

Because most of the top IFBB's, atleast top 8 in the Olympia, tend to stay relatively lean throughout the year, how would you say they use this priming method? After various shows? GH use?