The Protein Myth

[bmg]

I got salmonella from raw eggs recently, it was less than pleasant. If you eat eggs from vaccinated chickens, then there is not much danger, however I got ill from ones eaten in a resaurant, which no doubt used the cheapest available eggs and probably therefore were not vaccinated. Needless to say, I wont be eating raw eggs again, and really dont see the potential benefits as being a particularly strong motivator for doing it, when compared to the potential dangers. Nark is correct about food posioning from many other sources as well, unfortunately we live in a world that is all about mass production and profit, not quality.

hey maine, what was that like... i mean wut were the symptoms. ive been drink alot of raw eggs lately...

sometimes i think it focks my stomach up.

[MASTER]

hey maine, what was that like... i mean wut were the symptoms. ive been drink alot of raw eggs lately...

sometimes i think it focks my stomach up.

Pretty much, I was sat on the shitter for 9 days, bad stomach cramps and the runs. I was relatively lucky, a couple of other guys I know who have had it, were a lot worse off. They had vomiting, nausea and the joys of fainting as well. One of them ended up in hospital because he couldnt keep any liquids down and had serious dehydration as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmonellosis that sums its up pretty nicely.

[bmg]

Pretty much, I was sat on the shitter for 9 days, bad stomach cramps and the runs. I was relatively lucky, a couple of other guys I know who have had it, were a lot worse off. They had vomiting, nausea and the joys of fainting as well. One of them ended up in hospital because he couldnt keep any liquids down and had serious dehydration as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmonellosis that sums its up pretty nicely.

dood... that sux

[MASTER]

dood... that sux

Yeah its not great. Its hardly life threatening to young, healthy, guys like us, but its still annoying and inconvenient and I would rather not have it again.

[G-1000]

*Narkissos*

Haha. I remember you having this conversation once before.

Nark great posts

[goose]

Nice post guys,this is why I find liquid beef amino very appealing,just started it and really love it,it does not get broken down.Great taste just a little expensive.Amazing amino profile.

[HORSE~]

Nice post guys,this is why I find liquid beef amino very appealing,just started it and really love it,it does not get broken down.Great taste just a little expensive.Amazing amino profile.

I am fixing to order two case's and givem a shot....

[goose]

I am fixing to order two case's and givem a shot....

HA HA.Your getting them from phil

[HORSE~]

HA HA.Your getting them from phil

Yeah they are a bit pricey....

You got a better hook up??

[goose]

Yeah they are a bit pricey....

You got a better hook up??

Yes.

Pm sent.

[HORSE~]

Awesome buddy!!!! Thanks.....

[VeraDeMilo]

Hey guys, not to hijack, but can you give a little information on the liquid beef aminos. (either in this thread or a new one) I researched a bunch of other sites and there seems to be a lot of misinformation and speculation about them. Thanks in advance.

[Swifto]

Hey guys, not to hijack, but can you give a little information on the liquid beef aminos. (either in this thread or a new one) I researched a bunch of other sites and there seems to be a lot of misinformation and speculation about them. Thanks in advance.

There all over professional muscle.com as Phil Hernon sells them but...

They get VERY good reviews from every single person thats bought and used them?? I'm considering using them as my protein source instead of Whey. Either them or egg whites...

Hhmm...

[zartan]

I've been wondering about this issue. I dont always have time in the morning to cook eggs. Drinking egg whites I have held off on because of articles like this:

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chri...n_raw_eggs.htm
http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxifi...t/raw-eggs.htm

...saying that egg whites alone contain avidin which can cause a biotin deficiency. I guess possible solutions would be taking a biotin suppliment or drinking egg yolks, which contain a lot of biotin to bind to the avidin. Obviously this entails drinking the whole egg rather than just the egg white, but i dont know if they sell pasteurized whole eggs.

[wilson9d]

fvck the raw eggs but i only eat meat, milk, and eggs for my protein. i would rather eat then drink it.

[goose]

I think in a decade us guys will not be eating normal protein/or whey and powders are gone.


http://blogs.zdnet.com/emergingtech/?p=484

[Narkissos]

I think in a decade us guys will not be eating normal protein/or whey and powders are gone.


http://blogs.zdnet.com/emergingtech/?p=484

very interesting.

[zartan]

This mornin I drank some whole eggs (just to try it out), right after some unflavored clomid/liquidex and a whey shake. Haha, I spit one of the yokes out... I must be a pvssy

[goose]

OK,I have terminated the trial with the liquid beef.Going to stick with the powders and egg whites for the extra amino kick.

I thought something was wrong as the taste was to good.Found out its high in Glycerine, Artificial Flavors and Sucralose.Now I hope you guys know about how tasty aspartame is,well sucralose is a little tasty too,not as toxic as aspartame.Humans are addicted to sugar and I try avoid this drug as much as possible,only way if you want to eat clean 24/7.

[naturalsux]

OK,I have terminated the trial with the liquid beef.Going to stick with the powders and egg whites for the extra amino kick.

I thought something was wrong as the taste was to good.Found out its high in Glycerine, Artificial Flavors and Sucralose.Now I hope you guys know about how tasty aspartame is,well sucralose is a little tasty too,not as toxic as aspartame.Humans are addicted to sugar and I try avoid this drug as much as possible,only way if you want to eat clean 24/7.

good to know, i was gonna order a case.

thanks

[goose]

good to know, i was gonna order a case.

thanks

Here are hard facts.

http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-sweeteners.html

Just to confirm: NO stabilisers or flavourings or GM stuff or preservatives or added sugar or E Numbers have been used in liquid egg whites,well the ones I buy.

[ottomaddox]

Thanks for the heads up, I was going to try those Amino's, but I got 4 gallons of pasteurized egg whites instead. I don't like a lot of fillers and presevatives in my foods.

good to know, i was gonna order a case.

thanks

[goose]

Thanks for the heads up, I was going to try those Amino's, but I got 4 gallons of pasteurized egg whites instead. I don't like a lot of fillers and presevatives in my foods.

I know who you are getting your eggs from,the best

Im like ace on this,was going to use this as my Secondary protein source,and he Echoes my view on it.

Twin Amino fuel liquid amino,much cheaper than the liquid beef.No added artificial sweeteners. No soy, yeast or wheat products. No artificial colours or flavours,in that.

[Swifto]

Sucralose is approved by the FDA. There seem to be conflicting thoughts on sucralose completely. Some say its VERY safe, others dont becuase it belongs to the organochloride familly that can lead to a host of very nasty side effects.

[goose]

Sucralose is approved by the FDA. There seem to be conflicting thoughts on sucralose completely. Some say its VERY safe, others dont becuase it belongs to the organochloride familly that can lead to a host of very nasty side effects.

So is fluoride approved by the FDA.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEo23zRi7YQ

[naturalsux]

So is fluoride approved by the FDA.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEo23zRi7YQ

hmm so thats where my add/adhd came from.

[MASTER]

Goose dude, do you know of any alternatives to the aaefx version of the product, perhaps one without so much cack in it.

[Swifto]

Goose dude, do you know of any alternatives to the aaefx version of the product, perhaps one without so much cack in it.

I reaally cant see it being a major problem. I wouldnt use it as your primary protein source though. Good ol fashion food is still the key IMHO. I'm using it (in around 2-3 weeks) in the place of my Whey Iso to see how I go.

[MASTER]

I reaally cant see it being a major problem. I wouldnt use it as your primary protein source though. Good ol fashion food is still the key IMHO. I'm using it (in around 2-3 weeks) in the place of my Whey Iso to see how I go.

Im more worried about cjd than anything, to be honest, I know someone that died from it, so its kind of a mental barrier. I was intending to use it as my secondary source, but ill look for something else now. I have kidney issues, so I wanted to reduce my overall protein and still stay reasonably big, and using that seemed like the only realistic way of doing it.

[IronReload04]

this video made me laugh out loud. I will copy and paste the same thing I said in the comments

if you can get to 220 pounds at the same bodyfat your at, then maybe protein is a myth. But, weighing in at 150 pounds wet, is not quite a strong enough point to call protien consumption=muscle mass a myth.

[IronReload04]

another comment in another video

I bet you that humans have evolved to eat cooked food, NOT RAW. why? raw food has bacteria sometimes. so, spices and cooked food is an adaption to fighting pathogens.

[MASTER]

That dude may have been talking out of his ass, but I think the point goose was trying to make is that it is amino acids that are important, not protein itself. Eg. if you could get the right combination of aminos from liquid, you wouldn't need as much of them as you would normal protein, because they are more bio-available and dont take energy to break down.

[naturalsux]

That dude may have been talking out of his ass, but I think the point goose was trying to make is that it is amino acids that are important, not protein itself. Eg. if you could get the right combination of aminos from liquid, you wouldn't need as much of them as you would normal protein, because they are more bio-available and dont take energy to break down.

and the guy was saying that there are amino acids in everything we eat before its cooked and destroyed IIRC

[IronReload04]

That dude may have been talking out of his ass, but I think the point goose was trying to make is that it is amino acids that are important, not protein itself. Eg. if you could get the right combination of aminos from liquid, you wouldn't need as much of them as you would normal protein, because they are more bio-available and dont take energy to break down.

ya, but one pretty big point that guy forgets is this. Protein is hard to break down. I think thats a good thing, he thinks its bad. My way of looking at it, it fires up the metabolism, causes thermogenenesis, and burns energy. IN other words, eating protein is awesome for fat loss and leanness.

take away the "difficulity" in digestion. and you have protein with potential to convert into glucose hitting your blood directly. You lose metabolism, thermogenesis, calororie burning. You lose some factors that help with bodyfat and leanness.

thus, why, I think this guy is talking out his ass and just sounds believable to people not in the know because he sounds so energetic or something.

[naturalsux]

ya, but one pretty big point that guy forgets is this. Protein is hard to break down. I think thats a good thing, he thinks its bad. My way of looking at it, it fires up the metabolism, causes thermogenenesis, and burns energy. IN other words, eating protein is awesome for fat loss and leanness.

take away the "difficulity" in digestion. and you have protein with potential to convert into glucose hitting your blood directly. You lose metabolism, thermogenesis, calororie burning. You lose some factors that help with bodyfat and leanness.

thus, why, I think this guy is talking out his ass and just sounds believable to people not in the know because he sounds so energetic or something.

but what if you cant process the protein or only get like 30% of it.

and you dont think raw veggies dont fire up the metabolism?

im not saying the guy is right, but he makes some good points.

i believe in protein, but not 2g per lb of body weight.

[IronReload04]

but what if you cant process the protein or only get like 30% of it.

and you dont think raw veggies dont fire up the metabolism?

im not saying the guy is right, but he makes some good points.

i believe in protein, but not 2g per lb of body weight.

1. what if you cant process it? Well, I think that would be a problem with the person's unique genetics. IN other words, they are screwed for bodybuilding. lean meats and eggs are very high in bioavailability.

2. raw veggies fire up the metabolism? what kind of veggies?

3. I dont know of anyone besides a select few are truly at elite levels who are not "boatloading protein"

[MASTER]

ya, but one pretty big point that guy forgets is this. Protein is hard to break down. I think thats a good thing, he thinks its bad. My way of looking at it, it fires up the metabolism, causes thermogenenesis, and burns energy. IN other words, eating protein is awesome for fat loss and leanness.

take away the "difficulity" in digestion. and you have protein with potential to convert into glucose hitting your blood directly. You lose metabolism, thermogenesis, calororie burning. You lose some factors that help with bodyfat and leanness.

thus, why, I think this guy is talking out his ass and just sounds believable to people not in the know because he sounds so energetic or something.

Dude, you are missing the point. If you just took in the necessary complete, liquid aminos, you would probably only need say 50g compared to say 300g+ of pro, so you could maintain or even grow on what would be 1000 calories less in this case. That is what goose is talking about. The guy in the video is correct in his point about our body only needing the aminos from protein is correct, but the sources he is talking about are not. When I say liquid aminos, I dont mean from raw food sources or whatever, I mean properly produced, complete liquid aminos.

There are already people experimenting with exactly this sort of diet. Phil Hernon claims to eat no protein and instead ingests 80g of liquid aminos per day, whether he is telling the truth, who knows. The product he claims to use may not be the answer, but im sure one can certainly be produced, and will one day be produced, that would make meat and whey obsolescent.

[IronReload04]

Dude, you are missing the point. If you just took in the necessary complete, liquid aminos, you would probably only need say 50g compared to say 300g+ of pro, so you could maintain or even grow on what would be 1000 calories less in this case. That is what goose is talking about. The guy in the video is correct in his point about our body only needing the aminos from protein is correct, but the sources he is talking about are not. When I say liquid aminos, I dont mean from raw food sources or whatever, I mean properly produced, complete liquid aminos.

There are already people experimenting with exactly this sort of diet. Phil Hernon claims to eat no protein and instead ingests 80g of liquid aminos per day, whether he is telling the truth, who knows. The product he claims to use may not be the answer, but im sure one can certainly be produced, and will one day be produced, that would make meat and whey obsolescent.

well how about this



how fast would liquid amino's absorb? I really have no idea to be honest. but if they are already broken down, and easy to digest, I am guessing they absorb real fast. and here is the problem with amino's that absorb really really fast

1. They might get absorbed to fast, for the muscles to absorb, converting to glucose, and going to glycogen or worse fat.
2. You have no sustained release of amino's into the blood. which screws you. and that would also raise insulin, going back to number 1.

[MASTER]

well how about this



how fast would liquid amino's absorb? I really have no idea to be honest. but if they are already broken down, and easy to digest, I am guessing they absorb real fast. and here is the problem with amino's that absorb really really fast

1. They might get absorbed to fast, for the muscles to absorb, converting to glucose, and going to glycogen or worse fat.
2. You have no sustained release of amino's into the blood. which screws you. and that would also raise insulin, going back to number 1.

The method is to mix aminos into a large bottle of water and sip them throughout the day.

[AleX-69]

Dude, you are missing the point. If you just took in the necessary complete, liquid aminos, you would probably only need say 50g compared to say 300g+ of pro, so you could maintain or even grow on what would be 1000 calories less in this case. That is what goose is talking about. The guy in the video is correct in his point about our body only needing the aminos from protein is correct, but the sources he is talking about are not. When I say liquid aminos, I dont mean from raw food sources or whatever, I mean properly produced, complete liquid aminos.

There are already people experimenting with exactly this sort of diet. Phil Hernon claims to eat no protein and instead ingests 80g of liquid aminos per day, whether he is telling the truth, who knows. The product he claims to use may not be the answer, but im sure one can certainly be produced, and will one day be produced, that would make meat and whey obsolescent.

There are only so many amino acids your body can use. Your body has an "amino acid pool" viewing a protein source only by itself dosent do it justice. All amino acids are going to this pool. (if not oxidized) therefore Biological value only matters if you eat soley ONE kind of protein source over the course of a whole day.

The stuff hernon sells are hydrolized collagen amino acids - sure i agree Liquid BEEF sounds cooler . You could simply buy almost any other liquid amino acid product add some glycerine and you have a cheaper version of "LBAs".

The question we have to ask ourselfs is if amino acids get "lost" during digestion if we eat "normal" food. And do more amino acids reach our amino acid pool when they are predigested? AFAIK approx 90% of whole food proteins do reach the amino acid pool. So i highly doubt you could make the same gains using 80g Protein predigested to compared 300g from whole foods.

It is true though that 1-1.5g Protein per lbs Bdwght is sufficient. I feel that no more is needed.

Keep in mind that Phil Hernon sells the product rather agressively and attacks anyone who has to say something against it. Most people who report good results do so because of high glycerine ingestion which binds a lot of water within the muscle cells therefore causing more pump and a dry appearance.