Advise on my second cyle

[DS21]

Add Deca with test e then maybe next go around add tren

[RaidenL]

Add Deca with test e then maybe next go around add tren

Yes i was also thinking about Test / Deca cycle or a Test / EQ cycle.
I am not really looking for big mass but for quality lean mass. Dont want to hold water retention or have that bloated look. Thats why i decided not to use the deca

[Drake Hotel]

Yes i was also thinking about Test / Deca cycle or a Test / EQ cycle.
I am not really looking for big mass but for quality lean mass. Dont want to hold water retention or have that bloated look. Thats why i decided not to use the deca

You decided to NOT use deca because you wanted quality mass but wanted to avoid water retention? Newsflash: Deca gives quality mass and no water retention (unless doses are extreme).

[RaidenL]

You decided to NOT use deca because you wanted quality mass but wanted to avoid water retention? Newsflash: Deca gives quality mass and no water retention (unless doses are extreme).

what are extreme doses?
I was thinking of doing 500mg test e EW and 400mg deca EW split into 2 doses EW

example
250mg test + 200mg deca on monday
and on Thursday the remaining half

but is 400mg deca extreme dosage (i dont believe so but i am no expert here)
Also what i still coulden figure out is: Stop deca together with test or run the test 2 weeks longer then deca

[Drake Hotel]

what are extreme doses?
I was thinking of doing 500mg test e EW and 400mg deca EW split into 2 doses EW

example
250mg test + 200mg deca on monday
and on Thursday the remaining half

but is 400mg deca extreme dosage (i dont believe so but i am no expert here)
Also what i still coulden figure out is: Stop deca together with test or run the test 2 weeks longer then deca

Extreme in the case of deca would be 1000+ mg per week, so you're in the clear
Deca should be taken weekly so do test on Mondays and Thursdays, and Deca only on Mondays.

We still don't know your stats and cycle history though. I'll say as I've said in many threads already, that you're probably adding too many different AAS. A person can go a long way with test only, let me tell ya.

As for that last part it doesn't matter if you stop deca before you stop test, or run test 2 weeks longer than deca, as it would practically be the same thing, i.e. test running longer than deca.

[RaidenL]

Extreme in the case of deca would be 1000+ mg per week, so you're in the clear
Deca should be taken weekly so do test on Mondays and Thursdays, and Deca only on Mondays.

We still don't know your stats and cycle history though. I'll say as I've said in many threads already, that you're probably adding too many different AAS. A person can go a long way with test only, let me tell ya.

As for that last part it doesn't matter if you stop deca before you stop test, or run test 2 weeks longer than deca, as it would practically be the same thing, i.e. test running longer than deca.

I think i posted my cycle history on page on
as for stats.

22 years
been lifting for about 3 i think almost 4 years now
bf atm is 13 a 14%
weight is 91.3kg

So Drake Hotel
what your saying is go with test and deca and leave out the tren
what if i use prop the first 4 weeks during my test deca cycle

[MercyDog]

read several sources, also off-line, and decide for yourself what cycle may be best for you.

[DS21]

I don't agree with shooting deca once per week, I would shoot them both twice a week. You can eliminate the bloat with an ai.

[DS21]

Instead of prop for the first 4 weeks, you can use dbol alot of people like this cycle for a bulk: Test, Deca and Dbol, with an ai.

[LATS60]

You decided to NOT use deca because you wanted quality mass but wanted to avoid water retention? Newsflash: Deca gives quality mass and no water retention (unless doses are extreme).

Yea right..........

[Mulciber]

decisions decisions..lol

[Drake Hotel]

I think i posted my cycle history on page on
as for stats.

22 years
been lifting for about 3 i think almost 4 years now
bf atm is 13 a 14%
weight is 91.3kg

So Drake Hotel
what your saying is go with test and deca and leave out the tren
what if i use prop the first 4 weeks during my test deca cycle

I looked through the posts but couldn't find your history. I think that is really important, also how long ago was your last cycle. And of course, weight without height is irrelevant. 201lbs at 5'6 is awesome, while at 6' it would just be average.

Yes I'd say leave out tren and possibly even deca. Again I simply can't tell without a history. You could use prop during the first four weeks but I'd go with frontloading on the first test and deca shot.

But really, MercyDog is onto it here. You need to read more on the subject basically, decide for yourself what you believe to be right after researching the subject. People go by different things but at amateur level they all work pretty well.

[Drake Hotel]

Yea right..........

Yeah right? So it's your opinion that 1) deca is not a good anabolic and 2) it causes water retention?

[Mulciber]

not to speak for lats but i believe hes referring to the water retention..or lack there of

[RaidenL]

Instead of prop for the first 4 weeks, you can use dbol alot of people like this cycle for a bulk: Test, Deca and Dbol, with an ai.

dbol is an option but i dont prever orals at all.

@mercydog
Still confused what cycle is best for me.
I know that adding more as wont do the trick.

both cycle ideas i have are totally different with the same goal in mind

Option 1

1-3 prop 75ed
1-10 ace 50ed
1-12 enth 250x2
pct week 14
HCG last 2 weeks of cycle and first 2 weeks of pct (total 4 weeks)

Option 2

1-4 prop 75 ed/eod
1-10 test 2x250mg
1-8 deca 2x200mg
pct week 12

(if i put it down like this option 2 looks the most logical for me right now)

But what will it do for me if i take option 2 and instead of deca replace it with equipoise 500mg

i think i am getting close to my final conclusion here. Once more thank you guys

[LATS60]

Yeah right? So it's your opinion that 1) deca is not a good anabolic and 2) it causes water retention?

That was my response to your quote that "deca gives quality mass and no water retention",,,,,,,,,,, you obviously haven't used deca..

[Drake Hotel]

That was my response to your quote that "deca gives quality mass and no water retention",,,,,,,,,,, you obviously haven't used deca..

Well yes that's very true, maybe I should add a disclaimer "All my claims not based on personal experience". It's only what I've read numerous times that deca gives quality gains and does not cause water retention due to very limited aromatization.

[Mulciber]

i think i am getting close to my final conclusion here. Once more thank you guys

que jeopardy music..
its all good brutha.. lot to think about.. good to see you want to do this right and not jumping on the first thing someone slings out there.. soak it all in and figure what you think is gonna be best for you at this time.
good to see alot of opinions .. some i whole heartedly disagree with but what can ya say..

[LATS60]

Well yes that's very true, maybe I should add a disclaimer "All my claims not based on personal experience". It's only what I've read numerous times that deca gives quality gains and does not cause water retention due to very limited aromatization.

The moral of the story,,

[RaidenL]

que jeopardy music..
its all good brutha.. lot to think about.. good to see you want to do this right and not jumping on the first thing someone slings out there.. soak it all in and figure what you think is gonna be best for you at this time.
good to see alot of opinions .. some i whole heartedly disagree with but what can ya say..

woow mulciber. Your typing in a different way then on page 1. Or you in a happy mode right now

[Drake Hotel]

The moral of the story,,

Not quite following. Look, it's not like I'm saying this is the way it is and no one dare to contradict me If I'm wrong on this one feel free to correct me. Again, I simply had read this so many times I assumed it must be so. That's all.

[Mulciber]

Well yes that's very true, maybe I should add a disclaimer "All my claims not based on personal experience". It's only what I've read numerous times that deca gives quality gains and does not cause water retention due to very limited aromatization.

guess you never heard the myth about deca "lubing" the joints due to the added water retention.. well the water retention part of the story is true.
but thats not the reason for the joint relief..

[LATS60]

Not quite following. Look, it's not like I'm saying this is the way it is and no one dare to contradict me If I'm wrong on this one feel free to correct me. Again, I simply had read this so many times I assumed it must be so. That's all.

Sorry mate, my english humour, don't believe everything you read..

[Drake Hotel]

guess you never heard the myth about deca "lubing" the joints due to the added water retention.. well the water retention part of the story is true.
but thats not the reason for the joint relief..

No haven't heard that one. I've seen on forums people talk about deca after having some kind of injury, but I've never explored it since I'm not injured myself Anyway, yeah I guess there's some water retention, but not like you're gonna swell up like you can on test (and a sodium rich diet). Again, that's according to what I've read. In Llewellyn's Anabolics, for example.

[Drake Hotel]

Sorry mate, my english humour, don't believe everything you read..

Hmm oh ok then, thanks buddy


Not gonna do deca myself anyway so I guess in the end I'm not concerned either way

[WARMachine]

The moral of the story,,

[WARMachine]

Option 1

1-3 prop 75ed
1-10 ace 50ed
1-12 enth 250x2
pct week 14
HCG last 2 weeks of cycle and first 2 weeks of pct (total 4 weeks)

Option 2

1-4 prop 75 ed/eod
1-10 test 2x250mg
1-8 deca 2x200mg
pct week 12

If you are gonna run Ace run Prop the whole way...

Id do this..

1-12 Test Prop @ 75mgs ED
1-10 Tren Ace @ 75mgs ED

PCT

[MercyDog]

Its CRAZY how people over complicate cycles. Get what you can get and run it already. This is not that complicated and there IS NOT any magic cycle. Start with testosterone of any kind and run it if you choose to cycle, everything else just really doesn't matter. Truth be known, deca is an overpriced under-acheiver. Pills suck for any real gains besides the gain you get in the mirror. And tren is great but not neccessary to make huge gains off test alone.

[RaidenL]

Ok everyone

slept over it. Not going to use the deca still going for the tren.

can someone explain to my u should use prop all the way with ace (i know there both short esterd is that the reason?)

[RaidenL]

Man i keep and keep and keep on changing my mind. Alot of factors playing here for me. Was happy about the prop ace cycle so i went and calculated the cost
dang. Dont know if i am aloud to say prices but i can buy a ticket to America with that money >.<

So my best bet now ill be

option 1
1-4 prop
test e / eq

option 2
1-4 prop
sust / deca

it all comes dont to eq vs deca. And i read so many good things about deca. But just like mercydog said. Deca is a overpriced under-achiever.

What i have read i personaly think ill get more results with the prop ace cycle. So am keeping that option open. December is still far away

[RaidenL]

Okey everyone.. its done decided i know what i want. After hard thinking i made my decision

Cycle

Test prop 1-8 (10) 75mg (100mg) EOD
Tren ace 1-8 (10) 75mg EOD

PCT
HCG 2x 500ui wk6-8 and then wk 10-11 2x 500ui
(not sure about the hcg part yet)
Nolva 3 days after last injection 20/20/20/20

[Mulciber]

alrighty then..
id run the prop 10 weeks..the tren 8. imo its a good idea to run the test a few weeks longer than tren..

[WARMachine]

Agree with Mulciber! ^


BTW,

Pin ED not EOD!

Short esters + pin ED = Best way to juice!!

[WARMachine]

So...

Prop 75mgs ED for 10 weeks
Ace 75mg ED for 8 weeks

Drug: Testosterone Propionate
(Initial) Dose: 75mg
Half-life: 2 days
Dose Frequency: Every 1 days
Cycle Length: 70 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No

Drug: Trenbolone Acetate
(Initial) Dose: 75mg
Half-life: 2.5 days
Dose Frequency: Every 1 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No



PCT begins 3 days after last injection.

PCT needs
1-4 HCG 500IU's 2xW
1-4 Nolvadex @ 20mgs ED
1-4 Aromasin or Proviron @ 50mgs ED

Thats what i would do...

Also have Letro on hand during cycle.

[WARMachine]

[RaidenL]

So...

Prop 75mgs ED for 10 weeks
Ace 75mg ED for 8 weeks

Drug: Testosterone Propionate
(Initial) Dose: 75mg
Half-life: 2 days
Dose Frequency: Every 1 days
Cycle Length: 70 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No

Drug: Trenbolone Acetate
(Initial) Dose: 75mg
Half-life: 2.5 days
Dose Frequency: Every 1 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No



PCT begins 3 days after last injection.

PCT needs
1-4 HCG 500IU's 2xW
1-4 Nolvadex @ 20mgs ED
1-4 Aromasin or Proviron @ 50mgs ED

Thats what i would do...

Also have Letro on hand during cycle.

Waw war thank yo so much this basically answers my questions.
I know that ED will give much stable blood levels and has less change on sides. But how bad will it be for me if i do it EOD

[WARMachine]

It wont be bad for you.

Personally, i think if you cant handle ED injections, dont do Ace or Prop period!

As long as you rotate sites properly, its not a big deal.

Like ive said a million times!

Short esters + Pin ED = Best way to juice!

Try a rotation schedule like this one.

R/Glute, R/Delt, R/Quad, L/Glute, L/Delt, L/Quad... Repeat.

[RaidenL]

It wont be bad for you.

Personally, i think if you cant handle ED injections, dont do Ace or Prop period!

As long as you rotate sites properly, its not a big deal.

Like ive said a million times!

Short esters + Pin ED = Best way to juice!

Try a rotation schedule like this one.

R/Glute, R/Delt, R/Quad, L/Glute, L/Delt, L/Quad... Repeat.

Oh i totally have no problem doing ED injections. Its the pricetag of prop en ace ^^. But ill start in 1 dec so i still have enough room to think about it. Right now am about 80% sure ill do it EOD. Unless i win a lottery =) then ill also share here

[WARMachine]

If you intend to do EOD, make sure to make up for the doses.

Is this your first time with Tren? I forgot to ask that. Very dumb mistake on my part.

If so id do something like this:

100mgs of Prop/100mgs of Tren EOD.

ED injections do this. 50mgs of Prop/50mgs of Tren ED.

[RaidenL]

If you intend to do EOD, make sure to make up for the doses.

Is this your first time with Tren? I forgot to ask that. Very dumb mistake on my part.

If so id do something like this:

100mgs of Prop/100mgs of Tren EOD.

ED injections do this. 50mgs of Prop/50mgs of Tren ED.

Yes war this is my first time on tren. I know what ill be starting with it and i thought about the consequence

Then ill do the prop 100 (1ml)
and the ace 100 (a bit more then 1ml)