Anabolic Member
I never suspected that these weren't your 1st purchases brotha! I was merely stating the fact that gun store owners perpetuated false demand by claiming that the President would eliminate firearms. There were many billboards even here in las vegas stating "Hurry up before Obama gets in office!". I saw advertisements at Bass Pro Shops claiming the same.
My above statement wasn't meant to offend.
Productive Member
Nah I wasn't offended, it's cool. I'm just saying...sometimes democrat legislators get a little crazy when talking about gun control. Plus I like guns...so...why not just buy as much as I can, LOL.
~AR-Elite-Hall of Famer~
I somewhat agree with people having to have a license to buy a gun. I had to go through hunters safety class before I could get a hunting license. Maybe not a license per say, but some sort of safety course certification that must be shown to a dealer before purchase. There are a lot of stupid jackasses with guns that have no business owning one. Even if it is a right, they should still have some basic training in firearm safety. I believe this should be controlled by the states, to much sovereignty has been taken from the states in order for the Federal Government to consolidate its power.
However by making someone register and licenses and all this other stuff leads down a slippery slope. Even the most die hard democrat or Obama fan has to understand that liberty is not took over night.
"T-MOS WILL LIVE THROUGH US FOREVER"
guns dont kill people, people kill people
AR's Hot British Pimp Daddy ~HOF~
Some wise words.Originally Posted by prone2rage
Now where did i put that shinny thing
VET~ Recognized Staff Winner - $100
welcome to our world. Over here if you injure someone while breaking into YOUR home you can be held liable and even face jail
no open source posting
keep all source request's to PM'S please
someone once said to me a clever man learn's by his own mistake's. But a wise man learn's by the mistake's of other people.
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"T-MOS WILL LIVE THROUGH US FOREVER"
Even on a slow day ....your killing me..bro...lmaoSome wise words.
Now where did i put that shinny thing
"T-MOS WILL LIVE THROUGH US FOREVER"
We can kill them
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
^^^^yeah but not if they are trying to steal your car...had a little trouble about 7 years ago ....and there wasnt even a murder or a firearm involved. Apparently protecting your vehicle as opposed to your home and its contents is viewed differently. I should say it all worked out OK ....but it was a PIA....
Senior Member
Not a big deal @ all guys. unless you are a criminal or have something to hide this shouldnt bother you....i own alot of guns and im okay with all of this...JMO
AR's Hot British Pimp Daddy ~HOF~
Anyone seen my shinny thing??
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
^^^^license fees apply to handguns as do most of the existing things you pointed out (pertain to handguns) - not rifles or shotguns. Also what about guns passed from generation to generation? I disagree and cannot understand how it isnt viewed as an infringement of our constitutional rights. This is big brother is watching sh*t .... Land of the free (as long as the government knows all) ....not the intention of our forefathers
JMO ....
Senior Member
maybe it is different in my state
Associate Member
Sounds very similar to what Canada did with their gun registry.
Anabolic Member
All firearms (rifles and handguns) must be registered here in Las Vegas (clark county).
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
not here in PA - maybe because its a big hunting state i dunno..... i have well over a dozen unregistered rifles and shotguns - all handguns are registered ...and since i have a permit to carry concealed weapon waiting period not necessary upon purchase...
"T-MOS WILL LIVE THROUGH US FOREVER"
I only have a few rifles that are registered, and all my handguns are resgistered..we have the same concealed weapon and not waiting period...in florida.....
Anabolic Member
Believe it or not, Nevada is also a big hunting state, just not in the Vegas area, but clark county (Las Vegas area) is a very small part of the state, the rest is rural and mountainous. Good bighorn hunting here.
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
^^^ huh i never knew that ...never thought to go on a hunting trip to Nevada!
Anabolic Member
YEAH MAN!!! Central and Northern Nevada has great hunting. Check it out, then if you ever plan a trip look me up and we can shoot some shit!! LOL!!!
Seriously as supportive of gun control as I am, I'm still an advid hunter and outdoorsman!
Senior Member
Peace be unto you all.
I am probably going to be the lone voice here, but I am very anti-gun. I think all guns should be banned from sale to the general public.
Now to this, someone might say:
Bad guys don't get their guns registered, so in essence, you are only banning law-abiding citizens from defending themselves from the criminals who WILL get guns.To this, I say: the top two sources that criminals get their guns from include guns that were initially legally licensed and then converted to illegal usage:
An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says... one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.So banning the sale of all guns would definitely make it much tougher for criminals to get their hands on guns.
The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns...
Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html
As for the argument that "guns don't kill people; people kill people." This is just a mantra. Guns make it easier for people to kill people. It's like saying "nukes don't kill people; people kill people." Yes, but nukes make it easier.
As for the argument that studies show that more guns means less crime, I think this article deals with this argument:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Who...d=98678&page=1
And I think this study is the most impartial on the matter:
http://law.bepress.com/expresso/eps/1564/
It concludes:
Our conclusion from the available data is that suicide, murder and violent crime rates are determined by basic social, economic and/or cultural factors with the availability of any particular one of the world’s myriad deadly instrument being irrelevant.If there is no correlation, then it seems common sense to think that banning guns in a country with those social, economic, and cultural factors could possibly lower crime. We could at least *try* it and see if it works. What's the harm in trying it?
http://law.bepress.com/expresso/eps/1564/
As for the argument that a ban on guns would be Unconstitutional, this is untrue:
The [Second] Amendment is only 27 words: "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." While the NRA emphasizes only the last 14 words, the U.S. Supreme Court and appeals courts have focused on "well-regulated militia" and "security of a free State" to rule that Second Amendment rights are reserved to states and their militias – nowadays, the National Guards.
The truth is -- and one would hardly know it from the mass media -- that since the Supreme Court's unanimous Miller decision in 1939, all federal appeals courts, whether dominated by liberals or conservatives, have agreed that the Second Amendment does not confer gun rights on individuals. The NRA view, opposed even by such right-wing judges as Robert Bork, has been consistently rejected.
Unlike the average media consumer, Douglas Hickman knows this truth. In 1991, he invoked the Second Amendment in suing the City of Los Angeles after failing to get a permit for a concealed weapon. In keeping with dozens of cases since 1939, the Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unanimously: "We follow our sister circuits in holding that the Second Amendment is a right held by the states and does not protect the possession of a weapon by a private citizen."
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2587
Now let the flame war begin! Let me get my water pistol out to defend myself!
In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer~
The sky is falling.....
the supreme court recently ruled that it's the "individuals" right to own a gun, not the community "army "
that is a ruling regarding the interpretation of the constitution that gives the right of the person to own a gun..
the issue has long been understood, if all guns are registered, it's much easier to take them...
history, if we do not learn from it we are doomed to relive it.. most recent example = england..
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Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
Hey thanks bro - i usually do 1 trip out of state/year or at least once every year and a half- i may just take u up on that!
"T-MOS WILL LIVE THROUGH US FOREVER"
"T-MOS WILL LIVE THROUGH US FOREVER"
MAD here is something shinny
Senior Member
You can see how slowly the government are disarming the people. I noticed before Christmas in my city the government held a gun buyback program and every upstanding American turned over there fire arms to the police for $200 and when they were out of money they gave out Wal-Mart gift cards worth $200... all in the understanding that times are tough and here is some compensation for the economic downfall so you can have some money to buy Christmas presents. Seems all to planned out to me there is a bigger agenda...
"T-MOS WILL LIVE THROUGH US FOREVER"
Good point.....now that I think about it they did that here...
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
its scary - people dismiss things like this - say oh conspiracy theories etc ...but if you look at the trends and the slow removal of constitutional rights - it is scary.... and a reason for concern IMO....
"T-MOS WILL LIVE THROUGH US FOREVER"
I agree, when I hear here about the buy back program I just think of little old ladies who husband pasted away selling there gun..
Made Up Of Wires
Those who argue that the Second Amendment applies only to the National Guard, and not to individuals are simply wrong. The Supreme Court ruled last year that it is an INDIVIDUAL right, so the argument is over. Done.
Also, regarding national gun registration - Registration leads to confiscation. Its happened time and time again. Governments really don't like that the people have power, and the original purpose of the Second Amendment was to be a last resort in case of an oppressive government. You guys DO realize that America wouldn't exist if it weren't for private ownership of firearms, right? The militias that fought the British army used their own weapons...
Last edited by AandF6969; 02-09-2009 at 12:40 AM.
Senior Member
In 1920, women were allowed to vote. A few years later, the Great Depression occurred. Therefore, I conclude that women being allowed to vote caused the Great Depression.
Cmon guy.
Last edited by BuffedGuy; 02-09-2009 at 04:02 AM.
Senior Member
In the United States, there are 34,000 gun-related deaths each year.
As for the two million number you cited, it is highly questionable. The study done had horrible flaws. It simply asked if a person has ever used a gun in self-defense. Yet we read:
"...88% of the violent crimes which respondents [Rs] reported to NCVS interviewers in 1992 were committed away from the victim's home, i.e., in a location where it would ordinarily be a crime for the victim to even possess a gun, never mind use it defensively. Because the question about location is asked before the self-protection questions, the typical violent crime victim R has already committed himself to having been victimized in a public place before being asked what he or she did for self-protection. In short, Rs usually could not mention their defensive use of a gun without, in effect, confessing to a crime to a federal government employee."
In other words, even a gang banger would say that he used a gun in self-defense and that would boost the statistics.
Last edited by BuffedGuy; 02-09-2009 at 04:12 AM.
Senior Member
Peace be unto you.
Can you please source your statement?
I think the best bet for most people in that situation would be to call the cops and play it safe. Heroics will get you killed.
Associate Member
Finally, criminals will stop getting there gun illegally and become choir boys.
Made Up Of Wires
The case is Heller v. DC. It ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, not a collective one.
I agree, there is no substitute for the police. But what is supposed to keep you and your family alive until the police get there? It's really not that hard to kick through interior doors...
Personally, I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.
Senior Member
Peace be unto you, AandF.
I agree with you that if I myself were in such a situation, I'd want to have and use a gun to defend myself. But the analogy I can give is that of speeding. I myself would love to over-speed, so in that sense, I hate the speeding law. However, I also know that if *everyone* was allowed to speed, there would be a lot of accidents and people would die. So just because I would want to do something *myself* does not really mean that it is a good thing overall and in general. In other words, we have to weigh the pros and cons of gun control. To me, it just seems intuitive to think that less guns means less deaths. I understand that this is a hotly debated topic, but that's just how I feel about the matter.
Again, I'm not really that attached to this subject. This is not one of those topics that I am passionate about.
In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.
Made Up Of Wires
I just have to ask... as one of millions of law abiding citizens, how does my owning guns responsibly affect anyone in any way, besides making my life and my family's life more secure? I have a Florida non-resident licence to carry which means I can legally carry on my person in 28 states. To obtain that license, I had a background check, mental health history check, fingerprints taken, and a training course on gun safety, legality, and marksmanship. If anything, the area around me is safer due to the fact that I have the means and ability to stop a crime in progress.
I don't think the speeding analogy really applies because when YOU speed, you are a danger to everyone because the distance it takes you to stop is greatly longer. My guns sitting in my safe aren't unlocking themselves anytime soon and marching around the neighborhood.
Another thing that firearms do is they equalize. A female with a gun can defeat a male with a knife, or an unarmed male who would normally be able to have his way with her easily. If guns are banned, they won't all disappear (look at drugs... bans don't work). If they magically did disappear, then criminals would start carrying knives. You can kill someone just as easily with a knife as a gun. I'd rather not have to square off in my home in a knife fight.
"Gun control - the theory that 110 lb. women have the 'right' to fistfight with 220lb. rapists"
Last edited by AandF6969; 02-09-2009 at 10:00 AM.
Senior Member
two things
this is not Obamas bill its Rep. Bobby Rush [D, IL-1] .. and this is not the first bill like this, there has been lots of other ones over the past 10 years. every since high school shooting start people have tired to make a name for themselves by putting there name on one..
we gave up liberty when we let Bush passed all those bills after 9-11 that allowed government to dip into our lives anytime they wanted to in the fear everybody might be a terriorist. obama isn't the first to screw with the bill of rights..
as far as the gun bill goes.. I can speak from only my knowledge (floirda laws) alot of these rules are already rules, they are just not enforced. depending on how this is actually put into effect it might speed up the the process, because all this information is already required to buy a firearm in the state of florida.
now as far as reporting all your weapons, and movement and sale of those weapons. I like it as a former law enforcement officer who saw the pain and miss use of weapons. I do like the 'idea'. but its only an idea.. as a logical thinking person i realize laws only keep honest people honest and will not change anything, only hurt people protecting themselves...And it will hurt people that never would commit a crime. Firearms to alot of people are for sport and for fun, and YES it is relaxing to shot crap..
Every president has his ups and downs. all of them had their great points and down points. I like obama, but i don't think he is perfect. I liked ALOT of what ron paul said, but at the same time some of what he said was out-dated also. BUT .. the house and the senate have to pass it too.... so if it pass's you can't blame Obama, because 600+ other people could stop it if they wanted to
You will have to carry a photo ID firearms license.<-- photo ID is required if you have one within reach, so a firearms card the an extra step is not over the top. as long as they make it so the card will wave a waiting period. Like the concealed
A training class is required to be licensed.<-- I think a good idea only because most people have no damn clue how to use take care of or shoot.. hell cops need to take more time on a gun range learning. I taught Firearms and it was scary to see how bad law enforcement shot.. but i agree this shouldn't be 'A LAW' should be something people do on their own
Disclosure of your storage method is required for license.<- this one is kinda weird but doesn't matter, its a question 'i think' is already asked on most request to purchase forms. but if not 99% of people will make something up anyways... but this is also something that shouldn't be law. but yet something people want to do for safety
A thumb print is required for license.<- already required in most all states, not really a big deal. by doing this does not mean you are going in a criminal database, only on file. there are way to many mis-understandings about what the government does with your finger prints
Every sale recorded by the federal government.<- this is the only one that jumped out at me because after readin section II of the bill the wording is very open. and the words "qualifying firearm" is often debated because it is suppost to mean handguns and assualt rifles. I didn't like the writting of section II at all.. but with the exception of one word. its a law that is already in place.
If you move, and don't tell the Attorney General within 60 days, you are a criminal.
<- well this is a law anyways, for concealed weapons holders and anybody moving in general for your DL.. but if they make it another place to report to, it would add too much and be alittle stupid to have to spend a week everytime you move to make sure the government knows where you are.. but once again, its kinda already a law, this just adds to the laws of moving.
If a firearm is stolen and you don't report it, you are a criminal. <- actually is a law in most areas, probably all areas. something not enforced nor do i think anybody will ever be convicted on it, unless the DA believes they are hiding something. This is one of those things its never enforced because it would be way too much work just for somebody to say "i just found out myself" and it thrown out...
There will be no grandfathered firearms. If you do not obtain a license and report every firearm you currently own, you are a criminal. <-- i'm back and forth on this issue, because one it would be way too much work.. I did not see this in the bill when i read it.. i would ask the poster to tell me what section he saw it. but please understand i'm asking for my personal knowledge, not to debate it
There will be a license fee and a fee for the "services" provided at purchase time.
Licenses must be renewed every 5 years.<-- This is stupid because if you fail to meet the standards they take your permit, not your weapons, so once again you are not doing anything to protect people.. its only smoke so people don't see the lies behind it
I would like to add, though i'm not a lawyer. most of the writting of this law is geared to licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector not the avg person owning a gun.. but i do whole heartly agree this will be only the begining if it passes.. I believe gun safety and control should be taught and used more. but the Feds should not be the ones making it happen
Last edited by quarry206; 02-09-2009 at 03:53 PM.
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