this is gonna be my very first cycle, any suggestions cuz ima virgin

[ythrashin]

Do the following,
Weeks 1 - 10, 500mg Testosterone E (2 x 250mg mon and thurs)
Armoasin 12.5mg everyday or 25mg EOD,
PCT Weeks 12 - 16, Clomid 100,50,50,50, Nolvadex 40,40,20,20.
U need to eat atleast 6 meals a day with complex carbs and protein in them (visit the diet section)

Do not use anything other than test u wont get anymore gains only more sides.

Good cycle...

PCT is a bit of a overkill...

I'd pick either nolva or clomid. Dont run both together.

[KimboHalfSlice]

Right now I'm in Week 3 of the following PCT:

Clomiphene: 100/50/50/50
Tamoxfien: 40/20/20/20

and I'm having no side-effects, no problems.

Clomid is a tradename of a product that contains Clomiphene.
Nolvadex is a tradename of a product that contains Tamoxifen.
(I prefer to use actual drug names instead of tradenames because I try to buy cheaper products that contain exactly the same drugs).

[peachfuzz]

How do you go from this...

Endos dont know shit about cycling AAS..period!

Running Var at 60mg is going to shut your HPTA down. It may suppress it completely... And if it does he would be advised to run PCT longer then 2 weeks...

Running a cycle for anywhere from 8-16 weeks can shut down your HPTA completely. You will need a PCT of about the same duration and dosage to correct it.

to this?

Good cycle...

PCT is a bit of a overkill...

I'd pick either nolva or clomid. Dont run both together.

and i would advise clomid together with nolva

[lovbyts]

Wow a bunch of newbies giving a newbie advice, AGAIN.

21, to young...
Why, many reasons stated in the sticky.
To many orals and you are going to kill your liver.

Your diet is in question as stated and confirmed by you. You need to learn what to eat and when to eat it, at least 6 meals a day and you can reach 190+ lbs easily naturally.

It sounds like you also might be overtraining so change up your routine. Read the exercise forum and try some of the routines suggested. It sounds like you might not be giving your muscles time to build and breaking them down to much. It's easy to over train if you dont know what you are doing. I did it for YEARS... I have gained more size in the last year than I did in the first 5.

[BJJ]

You are not reading here.
You are too young.
Keep yourself natural, as with a healthy endocrine system, proper way of eating and training, you can easily achieve your will with time. And the time will give you the certitude to hold what acomplished.

DO NOT USE AAS AT YOUR CURRENT AGE, YOU WILL PROBABLY REGRET IT!

[charlesriley]

anf for the water use clen after pct?

[charlesriley]

okay so 6 meals a day, what should be eaten and how and when? that seems like i would get fat despite me bieng a active athlete, im actually steerin away from use of steriods, the more i read the more i start to realize im just gonna have to keep with gaining 2 lean pounds a year.

[charlesriley]

thanks

[ythrashin]

and i would advise clomid together with nolva

Where do yo guys get your info?
PCT dosages and exact protocol is subject for debate...
But running both together will probably yield no synergistic benefits.

If he ran both together it would be best if he lowered the dosage of both compounds.

BTW...I may be a newbie on this forum but I'm hardly a newbie to the online anabolic world.

[ghettoboyd]

okay so 6 meals a day, what should be eaten and how and when? that seems like i would get fat despite me bieng a active athlete, im actually steerin away from use of steriods, the more i read the more i start to realize im just gonna have to keep with gaining 2 lean pounds a year.

no bro you wont get fat cus thay will be relitivly small meals eaten every 3 hrs or so. the whole idea to this protocal is to keep a steady supply of amino acids in your blood to keep your nitrogen balance positive....that will keep your body in an anabolic state.....when we dont eat the body eventually gose catabolic and eats your muscle for its amino acid needs.....that may be why your having problems gaining weight....i would definetly learn to eat to grow naturaly first so when you do eventualy step up to aas you will benefit from it that much more....there is so much to learn and as you will find out diet is the biggest factor in the succes of any program/cycle....

[ghettoboyd]

Where do yo guys get your info?
PCT dosages and exact protocol is subject for debate...
But running both together will probably yield no synergistic benefits.

If he ran both together it would be best if he lowered the dosage of both compounds.

BTW...I may be a newbie on this forum but I'm hardly a newbie to the online anabolic world.

although it can be debated, there is a synergistic effect of running both clomid and nolva for pct because although thay are both serm's they serve different functions that work well together in helping one recover there hpta system......

[peachfuzz]

Where do yo guys get your info?
PCT dosages and exact protocol is subject for debate...
But running both together will probably yield no synergistic benefits.

If he ran both together it would be best if he lowered the dosage of both compounds.

BTW...I may be a newbie on this forum but I'm hardly a newbie to the online anabolic world.

although it can be debated, there is a synergistic effect of running both clomid and nolva for pct because although thay are both serm's they serve different functions that work well together in helping one recover there hpta system......

thank you ghettoboyd. ythrashin since your new to the forum i suggest you spend some time reading the educational threads as well as utilizing the search function before you post.

[ythrashin]

although it can be debated, there is a synergistic effect of running both clomid and nolva for pct because although thay are both serm's they serve different functions that work well together in helping one recover there hpta system......

Again this can be debated...

Part of article...
By: Anthony Roberts

One of the first drugs we’ll consider for this purpose is what is typically called a SERM. Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator, which means that it has the ability to act as an anti-estrogen with regard to certain genes, yet also acting as an estrogen with respect to others. That’s the “selective” part I guess. It does this by blocking gene transcription in some cases, and initiating gene transcription in others (3). Luckily for us, it has estrogenic effects on bones (meaning it increases their density), and blood lipids -meaning it lowers cholesterol-, (4)(5)as well as preventing gynocomastia by preventing estrogen gene transcription in breast tissue. However, it acts as an anti-estrogen in the pituitary, thus increasing LH and FSH, which results in an increase in testosterone. 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (6)...Nolvadex actually has quite a few applications for the steroid using athlete. First and foremost, it’s most common use is for the prevention of gynocomastia. Nolvadex does this by actually competing for the receptor site in breast tissue, and binding to it. Thus, we can safely say that the effect of tamoxifen is through estrogen receptor blockade of breast tissue (7).
Estrogen is also important for a properly functioning immune system, and not only that, but your lipid profile (both HDL and LDL) should also show marked improvement with administration of tamoxifen (34).

Nolvadex also has some important features for the steroid using athlete. In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed (35)It can also block a bit of estrogen in the pituitary, which is a great benefit when used with HCG (more on that later) (36)(37). The increase in testosterone Nolvadex can give someone with a dysfunctional is basically that 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (6)...Why don’t we use Clomid, another SERM? Well, basically because it takes much more to do the same thing. In comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone, but Nolvadex also has the added benefit of significantly increasing the LH (Leutenizing Hormone) response to LHRH (LH-releasing hormone) (6). This most likely indicates some kind of upregulation of the LH-receptors due to the anti-estrogenic effect Nolvadex has at the pituitary. Although both Nolvadex and Clomid are both SERMs, they are actually quite different. As you already know, Nolvadex is highly anti-estrogenic at the hypothalamus and pituitary, while Clomid exhibits weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary (7), which as you can guess, is less than ideal. It should be avoided for the PCT I’m suggesting…and in fact, avoided in general…it’s simply not as good as Nolvadex.

Need I even add that the 150mgs of Clomid you need to get the hormonal increase experienced with 20mgs of Nolvadex is much more expensive? So lets dump the Clomid…and no, using it along with Nolvadex will provide no “synergy” that I’ve ever seen in any relevant study.

SO how much Nolvadex should you use during PCT? I favor using 20mgs.day, although to be totally honest, you can probably even get away with far less than that. Doses as low as 5mgs/day have proven to be as effective as 20mgs/day for certain areas of gonadal stimulation. (8) 20mgs/day, however, is a dose that myself and others have used with great success, and the research I’ve done in this area typically uses this milligram amount. SO lets stick with 20mgs/day for now.

So that effectively suggests Nolvadex can not be used at Mega-doses to get a mega-increase in your natural hormones. We can’t use huge doses of any Anti-Estrogen, actually, and expect huge increases in our natural hormones, actually. Arimidex (an Aromatase Inhibitor –which means it stops the conversion of testosterone into estrogen-another drug used to fight breast cancer like Nolvadex) exhibits basically the same effects when .5mgs or a full 1mg is used (9) and I have even read studies where up to 10mgs/day of Arimidex is studied with no clear benefit over 1mg/day. Letrozole (another Aromatase Inhibitor) is capable of inhibiting Aromatase maximally at a mere 100mcg/day (10.). So clearly we need to add in other compounds to our PCT, because Mega-Doses of one compound will not I think it’s absurdly funny to see people recommending upwards 40-80mgs/day of Nolvadex, or a full milligram (or two!) of Arimidex, in their post-cycle or on-cycle suggestions. I’d steer very clear of listening to anyone who makes those types of recommendations…

All of this tells me that you can’t simply use mega-doses of Anti-Estrogens or SERMS to do anything more than reasonable doses. It must be, therefore, that your body can only respond with so much vigor to any one drug in those families. So lets add in another drug or two, ok? This way we can use reasonable doses of a few drugs and produce some synergy…hopefully decreasing our recovery time.


There are a couple other similar articles out there I'll look for them...

BOTTOM LINE: No matter what exact PCT protocol you pick as long as you recover is what matters. It wont hurt to run both clomid and nolva together but I would definitely drop the dosages he listed...The only negative thing you run into by running both is the possibility of acquiring sides from both substances. I'd rather not have this happen and just run one. IMO its the better way... BTW.. My choice is Nolva.. IMO its the better choice... we can debate this further but it all comes down to personal preference and what works for you.

[ythrashin]

thank you ghettoboyd. ythrashin since your new to the forum i suggest you spend some time reading the educational threads as well as utilizing the search function before you post.

Why thank you Peachy. I'll keep that in mind....

[peachfuzz]

at the end of the day clomid is superior at elevating LH and Nolva is superior at blocking estrogen. Ill stick to running both and recovering faster.

[ythrashin]

at the end of the day clomid is superior at elevating LH. Ill stick to running both and recovering faster.

LOL...again these 2 statements are debatable.

If it works for you.. run it Peachy!!

[charlesriley]

that makes alot of sense (no sarcasm) thanks, if i did do steriods and didnt know how to eat and keep my amino up my muscles would become a buffet of calories for my metabolism huh? BUT i think i will do milds like anavar or primo on low threshold doses and threshold cyles with same for clen though. and i will start eating 6 meals a day because i wanna look ripped, and i have worked hard my whole life to look above average and to me that sucks.

[jhardman]

bro. i was the same way. could not gain anything. raised my calories to 6000-8000 a day. 400 proteins a day. 150 fats a day. 300-400 carbs a day. gained 30lbs doin that. thats the least you should do bein a swimmer/soccer player. need calories bro.

[zaggahamma]

bro. i was the same way. could not gain anything. raised my calories to 6000-8000 a day. 400 proteins a day. 150 fats a day. 300-400 carbs a day. gained 30lbs doin that. thats the least you should do bein a swimmer/soccer player. need calories bro.

omg wow

[BJJ]

bro. i was the same way. could not gain anything. raised my calories to 6000-8000 a day. 400 proteins a day. 150 fats a day. 300-400 carbs a day. gained 30lbs doin that. thats the least you should do bein a swimmer/soccer player. need calories bro.

That amount of macro nutrients (in the wrong proportion anyway) would make approximately 4550 Kcal, assuming you are not writing about effective PGL.

[lovbyts]

okay so 6 meals a day, what should be eaten and how and when? that seems like i would get fat despite me bieng a active athlete, im actually steerin away from use of steriods, the more i read the more i start to realize im just gonna have to keep with gaining 2 lean pounds a year.

No, you will be surprised. Trust me, eating a lot more often builds lean muscle and burns fat.

To put it simply your body gets use to you eating all the time and decides it does not need to store fat. The less you eat the more your body wants to store your food as fat for later use when you starve it again.

If you eat every 2-3 hrs your body says Hey.... no need to store anymore because I always have fuel.

[zaggahamma]

No, you will be surprised. Trust me, eating a lot more often builds lean muscle and burns fat.

To put it simply your body gets use to you eating all the time and decides it does not need to store fat. The less you eat the more your body wants to store your food as fat for later use when you starve it again.

If you eat every 2-3 hrs your body says Hey.... no need to store anymore because I always have fuel.

well said

[charlesriley]

ok im gonna do the natural building and this strategy for a while cuz alot of people are sayin i need this first, to get things rollin before anything gets pinned or swallowed, thanks, who knows maybe i will reach my goal steriod free

[charlesriley]

ok im gonna do the natural building and this strategy for a while cuz alot of people are sayin i need this first, to get things rollin before anything gets pinned or swallowed, thanks, who knows maybe i will reach my goal steriod free

thanks again, im 20 i will give it bout 2 years or so cuz im goin to ranger indoc soon and would be nice to be natural till afterwards