Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids: worse for the heart than we knew?

[tjax03]

I don't believe that for a minute. TRT is just seeking to get an abnormally low test level back into the normal range. Your body is already accustomed to having a normal test level it's just that production has dropped off with age. It's like saying that insulin replacement therapy is dangerous to a diabetic. Granted TRT is not that extreme, but we are certainly playing in the same ballpark.

I think grumpee meant that having abnormally low test is associated with health problems, not low dosages of exogenous test.

[stevey_6t9]

AAS users reported taking median (quartile 1,
quartile 3) weekly doses of 675 (513, 950) mg of testosterone
equivalent for 468 (169, 520) lifetime weeks.

486 weeks on 675mg of test.... well there you go....why arent i suprised?

Second, these previous studies selected top-level
competitive bodybuilders,10 squad athletes,12 or individuals from
bodybuilding studios,12 thus possibly favoring healthier individuals
with better cardiac function than the largely noncompetitive
individuals21 in our study.

Top level bodybuilders.... well there you go again. Ofcourse there going to have cardiac impairements at that top level. Who knows there past AAS use history. They could have been all dosed up on 1000mg of tren at the time, id wouldnt b e surprised their cardiac function is below par.

good article though but it doesnt differentiate between use and abuse.

[shafts basson]

Well damn.. I've done it all mentioned.. I guess I will die right after my cycle

[zabster151]

well if one thing doesn't kill ya another thing will. How old do people really want to get. i think i would be fine kicking the bucket at 60 or so. if had a great life taking juice looking great all the time stronger then most were others are fighting there whole lives to look good and be strong mentally beating themselves up ED. i think live it up dont stress on the little things.

[shafts basson]

Yea but you can't know for sure u will live till then. Didn't some iranian bb just die in his mid 30s?

[Bertuzzi]

Awesome post.... Thank you!

I look forward to more posts like this from you!

[Norwich Muscles]

The report makes reference to 'lifetime weeks' of like 500, so that is 500 weeks on the juice right?

So if someone doesnt do anywhere near that, they the risk is considerable less right?

The fact that 50% of the AAS users were cocaine users etc also isnt conclusive.

Interesting read for those of you on ful time gear, but myself being a part-timer, I dont really have any worries.

[LGM]

MD had a blurb on this study recently, and all but trashed it as I recall. I'm assuming that they are likely as unbiased as the test was, but still. To use such a small study with so many uncontrolled variables is at best, reckless and deceptive.

Of course, there are a number of better studies that tell us that this is risky business anyway.

[TKO Performance]

MD had a blurb on this study recently, and all but trashed it as I recall. I'm assuming that they are likely as unbiased as the test was, but still. To use such a small study with so many uncontrolled variables is at best, reckless and deceptive.

Of course, there are a number of better studies that tell us that this is risky business anyway.

Exactly!

BTW, I've never read or heard anything about the negative effects of opiates on the heart. They will trash your liver for sure, but I don't see how they would affect the heart, especially since they tend to slow down your heart rate, which is why junkies sleep all the time. It's the cocaine use that would concern me. Any stimulant can affect the heart because it increases the base heart rate. Throw in strenuous exercise and you're just asking for problems.

[martinez44]

right i might be able to add something here, im 4 weeks into my cycle, was 100% healthy before starting 500mg test and 50 mg dianabol dropped down to 30mg last week, i had a blood test done tuesday gone, and my blood pressure checked,and pulse rate, blood pressure was normal,but pulse rate was, 104, so went to get my results friday and everything came back ok, so the doc checked my pulse again and it was up to 118,so she was abit worried so she booked me in to an ecg scan this morning, now bare in mind this was 9.30am no dianabol in my system,my pulse read 89, so i thought clearly the dianabol increasing pulse rate,which is expected right? but then the doc reviewed my scan (excuse my lack of scientific knowledge) but my left chamber of the heart is enlarged,and not pumping the blood as efficiently around my body,i had to to another urine sample and im booked in again for monday where i,ll have a 24hr scan to show a better picture, now i wasnt scared untill i was asked have i any relatives that have suffered from sudden cardiac arrest, which i havent,ive been told if i experience any pain or discomfort around my heart,to get myself to a&e as soon as possible, now i,ll be honest my doc has no knowledge about AAS so she cant really say the cause as of yet, but to the experienced guys on here, is it fair to say this is caused by the AAS????? im a 27 relatively healthy old male,a little unfit and this is my 2nd cycle. and if this condition is due to this is it more the orals then the injectables????? please shed some light . many thanks

[TKO Performance]

What was your heart like before this? My guess is that you never had it checked as thoroughly. This makes for no point of comparison, and that means saying this was caused by steroids is going to be impossible.

How many years have you been training? Part of what you have described is common in weight trainers, especially those who lift heavy, so that's a partial explanation too.

Also, normally I have regular BP and pulse. When I get it checked at the doctors both are usually elevated. It's a nervous reaction that I have to being in a doctor's office. If I take a minute and focus my mind, slow my breathing, etc. I can make both return to normal, and have done this in a doctor's presence several times. You might want to consider that part of this may be your knowledge that you are on the juice and the fear, conscious or subconscious of getting called out on it by your doctor.

Finally, a word on family history. It starts somewhere, and in this case it could be starting with you. People die every year from various cancers with no family history of them. Heart conditions are no different. Remember what I said about the 50/50 split between genetic predisposition and environmental causes (read back a few posts it's on here)? You may have had relatives that had the predisposition, but never the environmental conditions to make the condition manifest.

[martinez44]

i have been training for 7 years, given being on and 0ff for personal reasons, i was honest with my doc about my steroid use, in uk its legal for personal use, and answer to ur question,no it hasnt been checked to this extent, maybe 5 years ago yes, which didnt show anything up, if u say this is normal would u cease the steroid use,or just the dianabol or if this is common nature is it safe to stay on

[Swifto]

I dont believe TRT is bad for the aging male, infact, I think the opposite.

I was talking about a certain white powder.

I dont want to mention the various words or post studies as ww have Rules here not alloweing/permitting recreational drugs. So I will post a link with a fair few studies on the subject.

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sourc...880e0c34638eae

[dec11]

I dont believe TRT is bad for the aging male, infact, I think the opposite.

In regards to opiods and the heart, I was talking about a certain white powder, not so much what smack heads inject/smoke.

I dont want to mention the various words or post studies as ww have Rules here not alloweing/permitting recreational drugs. So I will post a link with a fair few studies on the subject.

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sourc...880e0c34638eae

yeah, there was a well known case of a model, Katy French, over here who died aged 24, it was well known she was on clen and using tht certain white stuff at the same time, result = heart attack

[TKO Performance]

Uh, what? The white powder your talking about, which I will assume is Edited, is not an opiate. It's a stimulant. That's why it's dangerous to the heart.

Opiates are things like Edited, etc. These were all originally used as pain killers (some, if prescribed, still legally are).

I'm not trying to violate board rules, Try Harder but I think it's important to understand this distinction without having to speak in hushed tones. No one is advocating or discussing the active use of these drugs by anyone that has posted. We are simply mentioning them as they pertain to the research being discussed, which pertains to the affects that steroids may have on cardiac function.

[Swifto]

Uh, what? The white powder your talking about, which I will assume is cocaine, is not an opiate. It's a stimulant. That's why it's dangerous to the heart.

These were all originally used as pain killers (some, if prescribed, still legally are).

I'm not trying to violate board rules, but I think it's important to understand this distinction without having to speak in hushed tones. No one is advocating or discussing the active use of these drugs by anyone that has posted. We are simply mentioning them as they pertain to the research being discussed, which pertains to the affects that steroids may have on cardiac function.

I can see my original post is confusing.

I (as a staff member) have purposely avoided saying the relevant names because of the Rules in place here.

You (as a regular member) have then taken it apon yourself to use the names of the drugs/compounds in question, after I have avoided using them and stating the Rules in my post.

Edit your post and dont break the Rules here again. We keep the actual names of the drugs OFF the board as it brings the wrong attention (LE).

[TKO Performance]

I have clarified my point, and consequently do not need to use the names of any "forbidden" substances again.

However, and I say this with all due respect, re-read your posts on this thread. They contain the very words you are chastising me for using. I certainly do not want the unwanted attention of which you speak to be attracted to these boards, but fair is fair isn't it?