Roid Rage not a myth

[alpenguy]

The point is quite clear, you are adding HORMONES to your body. ANABOLIC hormones, that will indeed accentuate your given mood. Have too much estrogen and you'll be crying at soap operas. I would have to say that everyone who has been in the meat of their cycle gets pretty pumped and aggressive in their workouts...breathing hard, feeling it. Isn't that why we do it? I don't hear of people cycling 16 weeks of estrogen, because we want to feel invincible. And sadly that can cross over to the social life

[Reed]

To me it would almost seem to be a yes and no answer. Increased testosterone levels do lead to increased aggression and in some cases people who are on steroids will do

things they wouldn't normally do since their aggression is chemically higher.

Now is the term medically document or exist to a certainty documented by the medically community?

Nope There is no cause effect model therefore the term "roid rage" is false in a medical sense.

In the real world this is different and we can see roid rage everyday. You will see an athlete train with a increased level of aggression not possible without chemical

assistance. However this is controllable. We all possess greater urges and desires but the choice to act upon them is still just that- a choice

[n00bs]

To me it would almost seem to be a yes and no answer. Increased testosterone levels do lead to increased aggression and in some cases people who are on steroids will do

things they wouldn't normally do since their aggression is chemically higher.

Now is the term medically document or exist to a certainty documented by the medically community?
Nope There is no cause effect model therefore the term "roid rage" is false in a medical sense.

In the real world this is different and we can see roid rage everyday. You will see an athlete train with a increased level of aggression not possible without chemical

assistance. However this is controllable. We all possess greater urges and desires but the choice to act upon them is still just that- a choice

Just because the medical establishment has not said "this is roid rage" does not mean it doesnt exist...

Define medical community? So many studies show androgens effects and role on aggresion.. Now have androgens 5 times top of range and its common sense. I cant think of any case in nature where you have superphysiological dosages of androgens simply running through you. We are playing around with body chemistry alot of things will be changes. Saying oh simply control your anger isnt rational. Its like sucking someone dry of serotonin and telling them not to be depressed... You are giving them a drug and there will be a reaction. Now as i said everyone has different neurotransmitter/hormone balance everything effects everybody differently. Even something as simple as an event can effect people differently. So giving them an agression increasing compound 5 times over normal dosage may cause some kind of an outburst.

Im suprised when people think it cant happen?

[Reed]

Just because the medical establishment has not said "this is roid rage" does not mean it doesnt exist...

Define medical community? So many studies show androgens effects and role on aggresion.. Now have androgens 5 times top of range and its common sense. I cant think of any case in nature where you have superphysiological dosages of androgens simply running through you. We are playing around with body chemistry alot of things will be changes. Saying oh simply control your anger isnt rational. Its like sucking someone dry of serotonin and telling them not to be depressed... You are giving them a drug and there will be a reaction. Now as i said everyone has different neurotransmitter/hormone balance everything effects everybody differently. Even something as simple as an event can effect people differently. So giving them an agression increasing compound 5 times over normal dosage may cause some kind of an outburst.

Im suprised when people think it cant happen?

Most would define the medical community as the body of individuals qualified to practice medicine. You know the doctors and such we get our research from? lol

Like I said I go by the media definition. You apparently have your own definition and trying to prove a point that is already established

[BJJ]

To me it would almost seem to be a yes and no answer. Increased testosterone levels do lead to increased aggression and in some cases people who are on steroids will do

things they wouldn't normally do since their aggression is chemically higher.

Now is the term medically document or exist to a certainty documented by the medically community?

Nope There is no cause effect model therefore the term "roid rage" is false in a medical sense.

In the real world this is different and we can see roid rage everyday. You will see an athlete train with a increased level of aggression not possible without chemical

assistance. However this is controllable. We all possess greater urges and desires but the choice to act upon them is still just that- a choice

Finally somebody said that and I am glad it came from a Vet.

Guys, document yourself simply studying the effects of hormones in our organism.
AAS do not alter or interfere with our synapsis in any way or case.

Roid rage, therefore, was created by those who could not explain why they acted differently while on steroids.
Those, who are simply ignorant (not informed).

[n00bs]

As stated before get e2 a few times above range and see what happens...

Anyone who has lived with a women with pmdd would know thisl

[BJJ]

^^^
That has nothing to do with synapsis so nothing to do with emotions therefore nothing to do with behavioural changes.

[calstate23]

^^^
That has nothing to do with synapsis so nothing to do with emotions therefore nothing to do with behavioural changes.

Man, this has nothing to do with brain's synapsis and shit. Its really plain and simple......It increases anger level. It doesn't make you insane or go crazy.

Again, like I said earlier, lets say you are REALLY angry not on steroids and lets say your anger level is at a 7. Now lets say for the same event that occurred ON STEROIDS that anger level that used to be a 7 is now at a 9.

In the end it is still up to us to control our emotions but steroids makes it that much easier to lose control because it bumps up on anger level a few notches.

We are all humans and even without steroids will have lost control of our emotions. For instance, if your anger level is at a 9 NOT on steroids, they is a very good chance you might lose your temper.

So basically, all I am trying to say is that steroids does nothing but increase ones anger levels, which in theory, will make you more vulnerable to losing your temper.

We don't need all this scientific bullsh*t. We don't need to talk about synapsis's and psychosis. Steroids increase testosterone which in hand increases aggression. It doesn't make us crazy or make us lose control but it does make me more angry then normal. This is a fact, and if you don't understand it then you just have never taken steroids or just have not taken as high as a dose as others.

[junkiescumbag]

Man, this has nothing to do with brain's synapsis and shit. Its really plain and simple......It increases anger level. It doesn't make you insane or go crazy.

Again, like I said earlier, lets say you are REALLY angry not on steroids and lets say your anger level is at a 7. Now lets say for the same event that occurred ON STEROIDS that anger level that used to be a 7 is now at a 9.

In the end it is still up to us to control our emotions but steroids makes it that much easier to lose control because it bumps up on anger level a few notches.

We are all humans and even without steroids will have lost control of our emotions. For instance, if your anger level is at a 9 NOT on steroids, they is a very good chance you might lose your temper.

So basically, all I am trying to say is that steroids does nothing but increase ones anger levels, which in theory, will make you more vulnerable to losing your temper.

We don't need all this scientific bullsh*t. We don't need to talk about synapsis's and psychosis. Steroids increase testosterone which in hand increases aggression. It doesn't make us crazy or make us lose control but it does make me more angry then normal. This is a fact, and if you don't understand it then you just have never taken steroids or just have not taken as high as a dose as others.

completely agree, i find that it doesnt make me "angry" at things i normally wouldnt get angry at. but if i do get angry the aggression is more so then when im off.

i find it effects confidence levels more so then anger. i feel like a god on cycle not bottled up with anger

[n00bs]

Nothing to do with emotions?

Thats all it has to do with are you mad?

[n00bs]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1573207/

[BJJ]

This isn't true. While hormones may not directly affect neuronal signaling, they can indirectly affect brain function by affecting the levels of neurotransmitters produced and stored in different regions of the brain. Thus one can conclude that hormones do have effects on brain functioning.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1573207/

With that article about N-methyl-D-aspartate you just show me you missed the topic completely.

You guys need a bit of endocrinology to clear up the confusion you have.

[tjax03]

What exactly was wrong about what I said? I am a PhD student in cell biology. Do a quick pubmed search on hormones and neurotransmitters and you will see numerous sources that verify what i posted. Maybe you should think before you tell people they are confused.

[BJJ]

What exactly was wrong about what I said? I am a PhD student in cell biology. Do a quick pubmed search on hormones and neurotransmitters and you will see numerous sources that verify what i posted. Maybe you should think before you tell people they are confused.

Or maybe you shoul post a published study where it is evident that exogenous hormones can interfere and alter synapsis.

[tjax03]

Or maybe you shoul post a published study where it is evident that exogenous hormones can interfere and alter synapsis.

Local production of sex hormones and their modulation of hippocampal synaptic plasticity.
Ishii H, Tsurugizawa T, Ogiue-Ikeda M, Asashima M, Mukai H, Murakami G, Hojo Y, Kimoto T, Kawato S.

Department of Biophysics and Life Sciences, Graduate School ofArts and Sciences ,University of Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan.
Abstract
It is believed that sex hormones are synthesized in the gonads and reach the brain via the blood circulation. In contrast with this view, the authors have demonstrated that sex hormones are also synthesized locally in the hippocampus and that these steroids act rapidly to modulate neuronal synaptic plasticity. The authors demonstrated that estrogens are locally synthesized from cholesterol through dehydroepiandrosterone and testosterone in adult hippocampal neurons. Significant expression of mRNA for P450(17alpha), P450arom, and other steroidogenic enzymes was demonstrated. Localization of P450(17alpha) and P450arom was observed in synapses of principal neurons. In contrast to the slow action of gonadal estradiol, hippocampal neuron-derived estradiol may act locally and rapidly within the neurons. For example, 1 to 10 nM estradiol rapidly enhances long-term depression (LTD). The density of thin spines is selectively increased within two hours upon application of estradiol in pyramidal neurons. Estrogen receptor ERalpha agonist has the same enhancing effect as estradiol on both LTD and spinogenesis. Localization of ERalpha in spines in addition to nuclei of principal neurons implies that synaptic ERalpha is responsible for rapid modulation of synaptic plasticity by endogenous estradiol. Activin A, a peptide sex hormone, may also play a role as a local endogenous modulator of synaptic plasticity.

The role of androgens in cognition and brain aging in men.
Janowsky JS.

Behavioral Neuroscience, Oregon Health & Science University CR131, Portland, 97239, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
Losses of working and long-term memory are hallmarks of human aging and may signal impending neurodegenerative disease. The maintenance of neural elements in brain systems that support memory, such as synapse formation in prefrontal cortex and hippocampus, are critical for cognitive health in aging. This paper reviews the biological basis for androgens as neuroprotectants or neuromodulators in aging and the importance of androgens on the brain systems important for memory. We relate biological effects to cognitive outcomes in elderly men under a variety of androgen conditions. In brief, androgen deprivation causes significant loss of synapses in the hippocampus in rodent and nonhuman primates, increases amyloid deposition in human and rodent models and causes changes in neurotransmission in prefrontal cortex in rodent models. Recent work suggests that these changes modify age-related cognitive loss, particularly to memory in men. In addition, the conversion of testosterone to its androgen metabolites or to estradiol may play a special role in the preservation of memory in aging. This paper reviews discrepancies between studies using animal models and studies of human cognition, and suggests new directions that are likely to be fruitful in the future for understanding the role of androgens in brain aging. This review suggests that studies of low androgen levels in older men may not index the same biological mechanisms and behavioral effects as the studies of gonadectomy in animal models.

Found these in a few minutes. Look up more if you want. I am not going to do the work for you. ALso, we weren't talking about exogenous hormones. You simply said that hormones themselves do not affect synapses.

[Far from massive]

I think one problem is that steroid users emotionally dislike the term roid rage as much as black athletes dislike someone saying blacks are natural athletes. Certainly AAS does not cause unprovoked rage any more than blacks can compete in sports while eating potato chips and watching TV all day.

[tjax03]

Here is a study that does show that exogenous steroid use affects neural circuitry:

Role of the alpha subunit in the modulation of GABA(A) receptors by anabolic androgenic steroids.
Yang P, Jones BL, Henderson LP.

Department of Physiology, Dartmouth Medical School, Hanover, NH 03755, USA.
Erratum in:

Neuropharmacology. 2008 Oct;55(5):919.
Abstract
Neural transmission mediated by circuits expressing alpha2 subunit-containing gamma-aminobutyric acid type A (GABA(A)) receptors is critical for the expression of behaviors known to be altered by anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS). Here we show that micromolar concentrations of AAS, which reflect levels found in steroid abusers, induce positive modulation of currents from alpha2beta3 gamma2L recombinant receptors elicited by pulses of GABA that mimic synaptic conditions in a manner that is mechanistically distinct from modulation induced at alpha1beta3 gamma2L receptors. Specifically, at alpha2-containing receptors, the AAS, 17alpha-methyltestosterone (17alpha-MeT) enhanced peak current, slowed deactivation, diminished desensitization, and promoted entry of receptors into more distal states along the activation pathway. Analysis of GABA(A) receptor-mediated synaptic currents in primary cortical neurons followed by single cell real-time RT-PCR demonstrated that 17alpha-MeT enhancement of synaptic currents is proportional to the ratio of alpha2 to alpha1 subunit mRNA. Finally, we show that the modulation elicited by AAS is not comparable to that produced by micromolar concentrations of other positive allosteric modulators at alpha2-containing receptors. In sum, these data indicate that AAS elicit effects on GABA(A) receptor function that depend significantly on alpha subunit composition and that the mechanism of AAS modulation of GABA(A) receptors is distinct from that of other positive allosteric modulators.

[BJJ]

Local production of sex hormones and their modulation of hippocampal synaptic plasticity.
Ishii H, Tsurugizawa T, Ogiue-Ikeda M, Asashima M, Mukai H, Murakami G, Hojo Y, Kimoto T, Kawato S.

Department of Biophysics and Life Sciences, Graduate School ofArts and Sciences ,University of Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan.
Abstract
It is believed that sex hormones are synthesized in the gonads and reach the brain via the blood circulation. In contrast with this view, the authors have demonstrated that sex hormones are also synthesized locally in the hippocampus and that these steroids act rapidly to modulate neuronal synaptic plasticity. The authors demonstrated that estrogens are locally synthesized from cholesterol through dehydroepiandrosterone and testosterone in adult hippocampal neurons. Significant expression of mRNA for P450(17alpha), P450arom, and other steroidogenic enzymes was demonstrated. Localization of P450(17alpha) and P450arom was observed in synapses of principal neurons. In contrast to the slow action of gonadal estradiol, hippocampal neuron-derived estradiol may act locally and rapidly within the neurons. For example, 1 to 10 nM estradiol rapidly enhances long-term depression (LTD). The density of thin spines is selectively increased within two hours upon application of estradiol in pyramidal neurons. Estrogen receptor ERalpha agonist has the same enhancing effect as estradiol on both LTD and spinogenesis. Localization of ERalpha in spines in addition to nuclei of principal neurons implies that synaptic ERalpha is responsible for rapid modulation of synaptic plasticity by endogenous estradiol. Activin A, a peptide sex hormone, may also play a role as a local endogenous modulator of synaptic plasticity.

The role of androgens in cognition and brain aging in men.
Janowsky JS.

Behavioral Neuroscience, Oregon Health & Science University CR131, Portland, 97239, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
Losses of working and long-term memory are hallmarks of human aging and may signal impending neurodegenerative disease. The maintenance of neural elements in brain systems that support memory, such as synapse formation in prefrontal cortex and hippocampus, are critical for cognitive health in aging. This paper reviews the biological basis for androgens as neuroprotectants or neuromodulators in aging and the importance of androgens on the brain systems important for memory. We relate biological effects to cognitive outcomes in elderly men under a variety of androgen conditions. In brief, androgen deprivation causes significant loss of synapses in the hippocampus in rodent and nonhuman primates, increases amyloid deposition in human and rodent models and causes changes in neurotransmission in prefrontal cortex in rodent models. Recent work suggests that these changes modify age-related cognitive loss, particularly to memory in men. In addition, the conversion of testosterone to its androgen metabolites or to estradiol may play a special role in the preservation of memory in aging. This paper reviews discrepancies between studies using animal models and studies of human cognition, and suggests new directions that are likely to be fruitful in the future for understanding the role of androgens in brain aging. This review suggests that studies of low androgen levels in older men may not index the same biological mechanisms and behavioral effects as the studies of gonadectomy in animal models.

Found these in a few minutes. Look up more if you want. I am not going to do the work for you. ALso, we weren't talking about exogenous hormones. You simply said that hormones themselves do not affect synapses.

Here is a study that does show that exogenous steroid use affects neural circuitry:

Role of the alpha subunit in the modulation of GABA(A) receptors by anabolic androgenic steroids.
Yang P, Jones BL, Henderson LP.

Department of Physiology, Dartmouth Medical School, Hanover, NH 03755, USA.
Erratum in:

Neuropharmacology. 2008 Oct;55(5):919.
Abstract
Neural transmission mediated by circuits expressing alpha2 subunit-containing gamma-aminobutyric acid type A (GABA(A)) receptors is critical for the expression of behaviors known to be altered by anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS). Here we show that micromolar concentrations of AAS, which reflect levels found in steroid abusers, induce positive modulation of currents from alpha2beta3 gamma2L recombinant receptors elicited by pulses of GABA that mimic synaptic conditions in a manner that is mechanistically distinct from modulation induced at alpha1beta3 gamma2L receptors. Specifically, at alpha2-containing receptors, the AAS, 17alpha-methyltestosterone (17alpha-MeT) enhanced peak current, slowed deactivation, diminished desensitization, and promoted entry of receptors into more distal states along the activation pathway. Analysis of GABA(A) receptor-mediated synaptic currents in primary cortical neurons followed by single cell real-time RT-PCR demonstrated that 17alpha-MeT enhancement of synaptic currents is proportional to the ratio of alpha2 to alpha1 subunit mRNA. Finally, we show that the modulation elicited by AAS is not comparable to that produced by micromolar concentrations of other positive allosteric modulators at alpha2-containing receptors. In sum, these data indicate that AAS elicit effects on GABA(A) receptor function that depend significantly on alpha subunit composition and that the mechanism of AAS modulation of GABA(A) receptors is distinct from that of other positive allosteric modulators.

You do not need to do the work for me, I already did my work prior starting the usage of AAS. The problem is, in case, that only a few users can state the same. Are you one of those...?

In regard of those studies ^^^, I have no idea who you are trying to fool here; surely not me.

Emotions come from circumstances which can take place anywhere and in any moment and be recognized by our brain with our five senses.
Once one's brain receive an external signal several happenings take place inside our "skull" and among those myriads of synapsis we develop one or more emotions which lead us to act or not to act at all. Plain and simple.

No hormone, it does not matter whether it is exogenous or endogenous, can affect the way our synapsis work among each other in relation to the development of our perception of the emotions, so the "growth" of the emotion that lead us to act in a way or in another, can take place freely.
That is why the term "roid rage" is just wrong.

Good luck with your studying.

[tjax03]

I think we are both misunderstanding each other. I am not trying to prove that hormones cause roid rage. I was simply arguing against your assertion that they cannot affect our synapses, and hence the functioning of our thought processes. However, I do find it interesting that many of these studies deal with effects on cells within the brains hippocampus, a primary brain center involved in the control and expression of emotion.

[Kawigirl]

Hmmmm....good topic.

Whether there's medical stats - I still don't think there is enough evidencary support regarding humans and use. And from my experience; woman become different on an emotional level after use.

I'm not male (obviously) so I don't know from your point based on ones self; but have lived with a male using and again; i have my own thoughts.

[gymnerd]

Hmmmm....good topic.

Whether there's medical stats - I still don't think there is enough evidencary support regarding humans and use. And from my experience; woman become different on an emotional level after use.

I'm not male (obviously) so I don't know from your point based on ones self; but have lived with a male using and again; i have my own thoughts.

I dated a girl for a while who used fairly heavy for a female and from what I seen it seems to effect females even more so than males IMO

She would go through the full gauntlet of emotions it was sorta scary @ times

[Cthulhu]

I'd say Irritability does increase. I, myself am I calm guy and noticed that when on cycle I tend to get annoyed by little things quicker. Not to a point where I want to kill something or anything.

[pavlenko]

the stuff really does play with the brain, I think thats the point the original poster of this thread was trying to get across.

[Eazy20]

After I inject I suddenly get the uncontrollable urge to chase after ambulances and school buses full of little children with the look of blood in my eyes while curling 40lbs dumbells (with perfect form) and drinking a protein shake

[Kawigirl]

after i inject i suddenly get the uncontrollable urge to chase after ambulances and school buses full of little children with the look of blood in my eyes while curling 40lbs dumbells (with perfect form) and drinking a protein shake

lmfao^^^

[Far from massive]

lmfao^^^

Kawigirl,

Off subject but I gotta ask, who is the model in your avatar?

[Kawigirl]

Kawigirl,

Off subject but I gotta ask, who is the model in your avatar?

Its not a model...its ME!

[cro]

nice work......

Its not a model...its ME!

[Bonaparte]

Kawigirl,

Off subject but I gotta ask, who is the model in your avatar?

lol. What model would strike a pose like that in a bathroom?

[Kawigirl]

lol. What model would strike a pose like that in a bathroom?

Ill be nice.....I'm a figure competitor. That's a side pose...I had to take 2 days out before nationals to show trainer through email

[Far from massive]

A while back I was talking with a friend of mine who is a steelworker turned hairdresser (big guy who is married), he has ADD/HD and tends to be very opininated and once he says something will not change his position. Anyway he knows I use AAS and was asking me about steroids. While we were talking about the problems with steroid use, shutdown, recovery, holding gains etc. he says that roid rage is one of the biggest problems and why he would never use AAS. Well I try to explain that while increased aggression can be an issue the sudden onset roid rage is more a hollywood myth than a reality, well he is off and running telling me how he watches lots of shows and talks to nurses and doctors and knows that roid rage is a fact and just because I use them does not mean that I know more than he does etc. At this point he is starting to run his sentences together and talk loud as his ADD/HD is in full swing...Well I could not resist the temptation I looked around to make sure no one was near us in the parking lot and told him "Shut the **** up before I break your ****in jaw, you hairdressing faggot!" right about this time I could not maintain the scharade and started laughing. We still joke about it, almost everytime I see him he asks if my roid rage is O-K.

[Far from massive]

Kawigirl,

Damn very impressive!

Bonaparte

I thought it might be Kawigirl but every single person whose avatar I have commented on has said it was so and so not them so I had given up.

[Eazy20]

^My avatar is me. I get complimented on my smile all the time


**Edit** And yeah, that is impressive. Kudos kawigirl

[Bigdog99]

It is a myth IMO. Roids make guys that were douchebags already......just bigger douchebags.

[Far from massive]

I am not sure of the intent of Bonapartes comment, but just to clear up any confusion. When I used the term "model" I was using it in the sense of modeling for the shot. If you term someone a figure competitor, fitness competitor or body builder you had better hit the mark otherwise they may be quiite insulted that with all the work they have put in they were miss categorized. Hence the use of the term model, obviously I knew Kawigirls avatar was not a clothes hanger.



Definition of model taken from Wikipedia,


Fitness modelsSee also: Fitness and figure competition

Fitness model posing with dumbbell

[Kawigirl]

I am not sure of the intent of Bonapartes comment, but just to clear up any confusion. When I used the term "model" I was using it in the sense of modeling for the shot. If you term someone a figure competitor, fitness competitor or body builder you had better hit the mark otherwise they may be quiite insulted that with all the work they have put in they were miss categorized. Hence the use of the term model, obviously I knew Kawigirls avatar was not a clothes hanger.



Definition of model taken from Wikipedia,


Fitness modelsSee also: Fitness and figure competition

Fitness model posing with dumbbell

Thank you for that Far From Massive.....much appreciated!

[Bonaparte]

I am not sure of the intent of Bonapartes comment

Huh?
I only meant that it is an amateur home-camera pic taken in a private location (not professional stuff). Not the sort of thing a figure competitor would post on her website or anything, so it is obviously Kawigirl herself.

[BJJ]

It is quite a surprise how many people miss the importance of science and speak without knowing what they are talking about.

Probably, those people are only young.

[brad1986]

I definitly get roid rage!! When I run out and im on pct i get pissed that its all over with lol

[5x10]

my temper is def quicker today
ive been getting upset about stupid stuff

although, there was a guy driving too fast down the road towards me and my 3 kids
this is a residental street where the speed limit is 25
now it normally pisses me off, but i got really pissed today
i was near the road and my first thought was to stand right in the middle of the road so we could talk
probably a good thing, but the car ended up turning into a driveway prior to getting to my house