Here are my final thoughts and I hope this makes sense. There's a very good reason that people 9/10 use clen at the end of their cut and not the beginning. One of the most significant reasons for this IMO is due to diet. If you are dieting the way you should you will constantly be making changes to your diet. You'll be monitoring your BF% throughout and changing accordingly. I believe even if you have a good solid diet to begin with; it should be modified throughout your cut. You may start out doing a 40/40/20 diet because that's what worked in your previous cut, but see you're not dropping BF like you hoped and decide 1/2 way through to use a 50/40/10 split instead. If you're not dieting effectively you're unlikely to see significant BF reduction from the clen.

Even GBrice (if you look at his log) is changing his macros week to week until he finds his sweet spot. Unless your god, you don't know what that sweet spot is at the beginning of your cut. Even if you've cut using a specific formula in the past; our bodies adapt, and we need to change things up. So IMO it's not wise to use clen to its' fullest at the beginning of a cut, and chances are if you're at 20%+ bodyfat to begin with you don't know how to diet.

When it all boils down...I look to see what the vets/pros on the forum are doing. If they're abstaining from clen until they get to a lower bf% or waiting until the end of their cycle that what I'm going to do.

Because of everything I just said I do think it's a waste of money because you're unlikely to see the benefits from it that you otherwise would had you waited.

Now am I saying that it will make no difference...of course not. If you remember I did say 99% was diet and cardio...I gave you that 1% for the clen (LOL), but in my experience people with that high of a bodyfat are not going to see that much improvement from the clen. Let's say for example that someone loses an extra 1/2lb a week from the clen - a 6 week cycle would yield 3lbs of bodyfat loss. On a 20% bf individual that would hardly be noticeable. Now let's give a guy some clen who is 12% bodyfat he loses the same 3lbs. Now it's advantageous.

My biggest concern is comments like "do diet and cardio and then add some clen and watch the fat melt away". It doesn't work that way. When you make statements like this people will always look toward the supplement and not the diet and cardio. It's like those TV Commercials take Hydroxycut and be a greek god then fine print follows "with diet and cardio."

Let me ask you something. How much weight do you think the OP will lose if he has NO Diet (maintenance only) and NO cardio, and relies ONLY upon Clen? 1,2,3 pounds?

Anyway, this is starting to turn into a book. I'm not trying to be an asshole. I'm being professional. I'm just curious to what people's thoughts are. Oh and I'm not a bully!