Why is it important to run an AI when on cycle?

[Swifto]

Swift, in your opinion how does arimadex stack up to aromasin ?

Its fine if its all you have available.

Rather that then nothing.

Aromasin > Arimidex > Letro (for on cycle estrogen control)

Arimidex can be harsh on some causing lipid, labido and joint issues. Its actually directly tooxic to the joints as well.

Why use Arimidex when Aromasin is so widely available and cheap?

[Macon_Bacon]

Its fine if its all you have available.

Rather that then nothing.

Aromasin > Arimidex > Letro (for on cycle estrogen control)

Arimidex can be harsh on some causing lipid, labido and joint issues. Its actually directly tooxic to the joints as well.

Why use Arimidex when Aromasin is so widely available and cheap?

I thought I had read in a pct post that aromasin is a suicide inhibitor to estrogen (thus killing all of it in your system) while arimidex will just inhibit the estrogen from binding to receptors (decreasing estrogen effects by 80%, this is just from memory so might be wrong). Above you stated we wanted some estrogen but not above 50ng/ml. Long story short, why doesn't aromasin completely deplete estrogen levels?

[Swifto]

I thought I had read in a pct post that aromasin is a suicide inhibitor to estrogen (thus killing all of it in your system) while arimidex will just inhibit the estrogen from binding to receptors (decreasing estrogen effects by 80%, this is just from memory so might be wrong). Above you stated we wanted some estrogen but not above 50ng/ml. Long story short, why doesn't aromasin completely deplete estrogen levels?

Its a suicide inhibitor, so it attaches to the aromotase enzyme and kils it, stopping it from becoming active again.

The dose of the AI is important. 10mg/ED is inhibitive enough for most people to use "on cycle" and keep estrogen in normal ranges. Some will need more, some less.

I never said Aromasin will destroy "80% of estrogen", Anthony Roberts (Conners) said that looking at its effects in females (not males) whilst not taking age into account as well. AI's do not effect males as they do females when looking at estrogen suppression.

The study I posted above looking at IGF-1 levels (showing no impact) when using Aromasin also looks at estrogen levels, have a read of it.

[Silat50]

Its a suicide inhibitor, so it attaches to the aromotase enzyme and kils it, stopping it from becoming active again.

The dose of the AI is important. 10mg/ED is inhibitive enough for most people to use "on cycle" and keep estrogen in normal ranges. Some will need more, some less.

I never said Aromasin will destroy "80% of estrogen", Anthony Roberts (Conners) said that looking at its effects in females (not males) whilst not taking age into account as well. AI's do not effect males as they do females when looking at estrogen suppression.

The study I posted above looking at IGF-1 levels (showing no impact) when using Aromasin also looks at estrogen levels, have a read of it.

Hi Swifto,

I am age 54, on my second cycle. 1st cycle plan was 12 weeks of sustanon 500mls weekly with 20-50 mg dbol daily starting with 30 and adjusting as needed. I chose sustanon because when i last cycled at age 24, it wasnt available and I got mesmerized about 4 different esters in one. Bottom line is I didnt start seeing gains until week 10 so by week 12 I knew I had to extend the cycle a couple more weeks and alos drop the dbol as it gave me bloat which DID disappear upon dbol cessation. Didnt seem to do anything for me anyway. I used no AI or PCT and was 8 weeks off cycle and all was well. My regular doctor took my blood work and said my test and estro were fine along with eveerything else including BP and cholesterol and sugars. Just my thyroid was low(#8), but its been that way for 12 years. I live with it.No I dont have a copy of the blood work and by the way my doc doesnt know Im on AS. He will only do bloodwork every 6 months unless something is very wrong. Lousy Obama care insurance.

Now I start my 2nd cycle 2 weeks ago with just NLP and test prop, for 1st week of 500ml's total, 2nd week I add in baby dose of enanthate still keeping mls under 700 per week, and the plan was to just use the prop and NLP for 2-3 weeks to jumpstart things and cruise on 500 mls test enanthate spit twice per week for a total of an 18 week cycle.

Im now experiencing slight testicular atrophy after week 2. Is it the no ester NLP? Because I never used that before , and I also never had any sides other than oily skin and huge libido increase before even in my 20's. I also have always had difficulty in reducing bodyfat as when I gain size my BF often stays the same and the gain is all muscle but I get awful insomnia if going under 100 carbs per day, plus I get constipated so I need lots of fiber which has to be carbs. I would like to know what would be a good AI that also would help me get "cut up" (thats how we said it back in the 80's. lol) I have armidex,aromasin,clomid,and nolva on hand. And what about proviron which I have 9 pills? Due to chronic fatigue and the thyroid issues ive had for yrs even when clean, I cannot get blood W. for a few weeks at least due to time issues and as I said, they wont do it at my clinic more than every 6 months. So lets wing it for now. Being I kept most of the weight from my last cycle going from 170-185 at 5'9 with like 23% bf, all Id like to do is gain maybe another 10 pounds and then focus on getting ripped. Its weird but I actually look thin with a long sleeve shirt on but in a bathing suit my stomach is flat but you cant see my abs unless I flex. The illusion of size will be awesome once I can add just 10 pds on my 5'9 frame and cut it up! I read on another forum that HCG will give me the test back in my balls to stop the atrophy but I know nothing about that and my source doesnt sell it.DO I HAVE TO USE HCG FOR THE ATROPHY? Also I currently 10 days ago added in b12(1000mcg) pins every other day for my chronic fatigue but it gave me insomnia and weird anxiety like drinking 2 pots of coffee so i will cut the does in half and do it once per week.My insomnia is so bad I cant sleep without a sleeping pill just naturally! Plus Im on tramadol for pain killer for 3 ruptured back discs that have been with me for yrs. Also makes me tired.Thats why I cant tell my doc Im on AS. hE WANTS ME OFF PAINKILLERS AND SLEEP AIDS TOTALLY IN 30 DAYS, and it aint gonna happen. Been there tried it(8 times) Suggestions on all this please?

[dreadnok89]

Its a suicide inhibitor, so it attaches to the aromotase enzyme and kils it, stopping it from becoming active again.

The dose of the AI is important. 10mg/ED is inhibitive enough for most people to use "on cycle" and keep estrogen in normal ranges. Some will need more, some less.

I never said Aromasin will destroy "80% of estrogen", Anthony Roberts (Conners) said that looking at its effects in females (not males) whilst not taking age into account as well. AI's do not effect males as they do females when looking at estrogen suppression.

The study I posted above looking at IGF-1 levels (showing no impact) when using Aromasin also looks at estrogen levels, have a read of it.

I just read this post and its awesome. Would like to share that I use .25 exestane every other day. I do 200 mg test cup a week. And 250 Iu hcg 3 x a week. It keeps my estrogen perfect and my igf-3 is still high.

[BBrian]

I thought I had read in a pct post that aromasin is a suicide inhibitor to estrogen (thus killing all of it in your system) while arimidex will just inhibit the estrogen from binding to receptors (decreasing estrogen effects by 80%, this is just from memory so might be wrong).

On a side note, this is incorrect. Arimidex does not compete for the estrogen recepter, that is the role that SERM's play. Instead Arimidex works by blocking the aromatase enzyme responsible for the production of estrogen in the first place. This is the difference between Aromotase Inhibitors and Selective Estrogen Regulating Modulators.

[dooie]

Its fine if its all you have available.

Rather that then nothing.

Aromasin > Arimidex > Letro (for on cycle estrogen control)

Arimidex can be harsh on some causing lipid, labido and joint issues. Its actually directly tooxic to the joints as well.

Why use Arimidex when Aromasin is so widely available and cheap?

Hey swifto, just another bump but a question for you, where does anastrozole fit in your little equation here??

[DeadlyD]

Its fine if its all you have available.

Rather that then nothing.

Aromasin > Arimidex > Letro (for on cycle estrogen control)

Arimidex can be harsh on some causing lipid, labido and joint issues. Its actually directly tooxic to the joints as well.

Why use Arimidex when Aromasin is so widely available and cheap?

With the last order of test i got he threw in a bottle of 1mg caps of adex for free.

[Sgt. Hartman]

When I see someone argue that an AI just isnt needed on a cycle, I think to myself, why is it not needed? Based on what? Because you haven't got gyno? The user may not experience side effects such as gyno, water retention, acne, but there estrogen level is sure as f*ck high.

You already know about this Swifto but I'll post it anyway for others to give a real life example.

Long story short I was running a conservative test dose and noticed my nipples were a little sensitive. I didn't think much of it but went and had blood work done anyway. Estradiol was in the mid 300's, over 6 times the top end of my reference range. I didn't have any lumps or gyno, no acne at all, no excessive water retention or any other estrogen related sides, only slightly sensitive nipples. I'd imagine if my E would have been below 300 or so I probably wouldn't have had any sides at all, all the while not knowing that I had extremely dangerous estrogen levels.

Lesson learned: don't ever assume your estrogen levels are in check just because you don't have estrogen related sides.

[BigBadWolf]

You already know about this Swifto but I'll post it anyway for others to give a real life example.

Running about 500mg test with 12.5mg exemestane ED I noticed my nipples were a little sensitive. I doubled the AI dose and nothing changed, didn't get any worse but still a little sensitive so I upped it again and still had no change. I suspected that my research chem exemestane was probably bunk and went and had blood work done. Estradiol was in the mid 300's, over 6 times the top end of my reference range. I didn't have any lumps or gyno, no acne at all, no excessive water retention or any other estrogen related sides, only slightly sensitive nipples. I'd imagine if my E would have been below 300 or so I probably wouldn't have had any sides at all, all the while not knowing that I had extremely dangerous estrogen levels.

Two lessons learned: don't trust research chems, and don't ever assume your estrogen levels are in check just because you don't have estrogen related sides.

Damn!! I know you can't say but damn, where did you get your exemestane? Pm me, I'm off to get bloodwork !!

[mikemegame]

Hi
excuse my ignorance but please enlighten me.
I read that a ruduced estrogen level will cause erectile dysfunction?
Is that direct or indirect by affecting the HPTA? or by estrogen feedback increasing prolactin maybe? is that possible?

and while on the subject can the estrogen blocking agents in some target tissues actually activate or inhibit the pituitary?

And DHT- is it needed for erectile function? i took oral propecia and lost my morning erections so it scared me off, now i fear baldness and avoid DHT but some exogenouse compounds are DHB (primo), can DHB do the same to hair as DHT? someone told me any androgen in high amount will cause hair loss. and does DHT and DHB cause the same HPTA inhibition as testosterone?

I am trying to avoid as much as possible any hair loss or diminished libido or erectile dysfunction more than any muscle gains, i am getting old.

thanks for incite
mike

[mywaytoBB]

Whats the best to use if ure a all year round cycler - Arimadex or Aromasin?

[ajburnett34]

I have A-hD by bpi..should i take one capsule everyday?

[T4nk]

Interesting read.

[big111]

Swifto....Great Post. I'm a new member so if I'm doing something wrong please go easy on me. I think safety is first and foremost when it comes to our bodies. I have been taking supplements for over twenty years and I wish I was as wise when I was I a young dude then I am now. I took chances when I first start. I have a question and I need your thoughts if you would be will to help.

I am going to do a cycle of Tren Acetate for the first time and I want to make sure I don’t run into any problems with this super supplement. My choice in the past has always been Sustanon 250. I have had a lot success with it.

So my story is this. I’m 55 and had both of my knees replaced two years ago and I’m now trying to get back to before my knee repla***ent. I want to use Tren Acetate but I also want to keep the side effects to a minimum. Could you give me some advice on how to go about doing this. Should I use Nolvadex? I was going to stack this with a cycle of Sustanon 250 for about 6 to 8 weeks. Thanks for any help you could give.

[h2o]

Great read thanks.

[synergyvt]

It seems everyone is suggesting Aromasin. Where do you buy them? is steroids.com a reliable place?

[realgear]

I try to get as much knowledge as I can on cycles and this really helped me I appreciated the info.

[Aus]

Very nice post but when should I do BW when on cycle with AI? After a week?

[hiddenheat45]

OK I am BRAND NEW to this site and any "cycle" or testosterone treatments. A lil history....I am 34 yrs old, 5' 9" and 270lbs. I work out 2 hrs 6 days a week and can't seem to get past 245lbs. My Doc tested my thyroid and all kinds of things and all that came back neg. except test. He said its 3/100 low below average and prescribed me 100mg/ weekly injections. Along w/ that he presc. Adipex to suppress appetite. Been on it 1 month and zero weight loss... I don't eat unhealthy anyways so I don't understand. So after 3 weeks of test treatments I feel a lil moody but no losses of weight or anything. I purchased HCG and am waiting for that in the mail. I want it to lose weight as well as keep my testicles the same size and hopefully keep my fertility. HCG place recommended an AI so they emailed me a program I should use to lose the weight and tone up and have lil side effects. Does this program look good? I need help before I go and fill my body with unknowns...

10 Week Testosterone Program Protocol
.Testosterone Cypionate (1) 200mg/ml vial (10 ml vial)
Protocol: One injection of 200mg / 1ml weekly IM (Intramuscular)
.Anastrazole (20) 0.05MG capsules
Protocol: Take 1 capsule By Mouth Twice Weekly Day 1 and Day 2 After Testosterone injection
.HCG (1) 11,000 unit vial
Protocol: One injection of 500 units (25 U on Insulin Syringe) Twice Weekly Sub Q
.MIC Complex 0.5 cc - (1) 30 ml vial
Protocol: One Injection of 0.5 ml Twice Weekly Sub Q

Post Treatment Starts 2 weeks after your last testosterone injection

.HCG (1) 11,000 unit vial
Protocol: One injection of 1,000 units(50 U on Insulin Syringe) Sub Q Daily for 10 days
.Clomiphene Citrate (30) 51mg capsules
Protocol: One capsule by mouth Twice Daily for 15 days


please help asap!!!!

[raiugxlm]

I love seeing cited data like this. Way better than hearsay any day. I would say thanks to the OP, but it looks like he is banned.

[DVD_Administrator]

wonderful post bro, I love reading your threads always learn something.

[kiderro]

Excellent post.
How about regular Raloxifene on cycle?

It was proved that Raloxifene can help improving lipid profile and it is a good antagonist or estrogen.

Lipid profile is one of the most concerned issues in AAs use.
Only using AIs looks good in decreasing prostate cancer, but may worsen
lipid profile because estrogen helps the metabolism of lipid and cholesterol.

[Iron Mind]

Excellent post.
How about regular Raloxifene on cycle?

It was proved that Raloxifene can help improving lipid profile and it is a good antagonist or estrogen.

Lipid profile is one of the most concerned issues in AAs use.
Only using AIs looks good in decreasing prostate cancer, but may worsen
lipid profile because estrogen helps the metabolism of lipid and cholesterol.

Well I think that you should be safe with your cholesterol if you keep your estrogen within the safe zone, because having too high estrogen levels will also cause allot of nasty long-term side effects.

I'm not aware of how much AI's will lower your HDL cholesterol on their own, but I think that if you have a proper diet with enough omega-3 and other healthy fats you should be able to keep your HDL, LDL, cholesterol levels within the safe zone, but I have no experience with AAS yet. But this seems logic to me, because even without AAS some people mess up their cholesterol, because of their diet!

[maddav99]

Great thread! Filled with a ton of potent info. Wasn't able to read it all so i hope this question isn't redundant: how about running proviron (first choice) or masteron? Do i need to stack an AI in top of that? Seems like a little much.

[Xzandr]

Run AI with any aromatizing compound (Arom*sin is best 12.5mg - 25mg/ED). Run SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) like Nolva for gyno issues and PCT. Run Caber or Prami for any 19nor compound to fight prolactin levels. (Caber .5mg - 1mg/week. Prami .5mg - 1mg/ED). If you don't know whether your compound is aromatizing or whether it's a 17 or 19nor then you shouldn't be using AAS.

I would avoid using Clomid because of the side effects on visual centers.
Atominis-all-you-need-know-about-tren-how-use-effectively-thread

With that being said, my choice is always Nolva as a PCT component, and as an adjunct to an AI with, depending on the cycle i've run, HCG . Nolva has been shown to be more effective than clomid in literally everything it does. Nolva at a dose of 20mg a day has been shown in studies to raise test levels by 150%(1). In comparison, you'd need 150mg of clomid to achieve that. In addition, nolvadex acts as a much stronger and better estrogen receptor agonist than clomid does, making it more effective on a mg per mg basis for blocking gyno. Clomid and nolva are like brothers and sisters, and nolva has shown to do everything far better than clomid. It should be everyone's #1 choice over clomid for PCT to recover endogenous test production, as well as gyno control.

I would also like to mention that clomid has been known to come with some nasty side effects a lot of people seem to get, that is not anywhere near as commonly reported as nolva. These include things like hot flashes, extreme mood swings, and vision problems(!!!). Vision problems!? No thanks, not for me.

References:

1. Fertil Steril. 1978 Mar;29(3):320-7.

Hope that answers your question. (Better safe than sorry) Think about how much gyno surgery will cost you. Get BW.

[mac10handle]

Thanks for the info

[mac10handle]

Thanks for the info

[Leezygeezer]

Wish I'd seen this before I did my 1st cycle! If I run any more ill use an ai all the way through!

[Lava]

Learned alot from this post

[Brawny Snickers]

Awesome post

[40+ReadyToGetStrong]

Great information!!!

[Frankdtank]

Thanks for the thread

[charger69]

Thanks for the thread

You revived a thread from 2016.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ElPatriot]

Has anyone tried the clomid from bully labs? I’m taking it rn and it taste like candy or something anyone know if it’s legit. It’s pink and taste like a flinstone vitamin??

[DougBerry]

How open should I be with my Dr about cycling? I don't plan on consulting a DR prior to starting, but think that getting blood tests and doing it in the healthiest way for my body is very important. Reading these stickies it is clear I don't know shit!!!

[Chark]

How open should I be with my Dr about cycling? I don't plan on consulting a DR prior to starting, but think that getting blood tests and doing it in the healthiest way for my body is very important. Reading these stickies it is clear I don't know shit!!!

Doug, check out private md labs dot com and look at the bloodwork threads here

[werms]

You already know about this Swifto but I'll post it anyway for others to give a real life example.

Running about 500mg test with 12.5mg exemestane ED I noticed my nipples were a little sensitive. I doubled the AI dose and nothing changed, didn't get any worse but still a little sensitive so I upped it again and still had no change. I suspected that my research chem exemestane was probably bunk and went and had blood work done. Estradiol was in the mid 300's, over 6 times the top end of my reference range. I didn't have any lumps or gyno, no acne at all, no excessive water retention or any other estrogen related sides, only slightly sensitive nipples. I'd imagine if my E would have been below 300 or so I probably wouldn't have had any sides at all, all the while not knowing that I had extremely dangerous estrogen levels.

Two lessons learned: don't trust research chems, and don't ever assume your estrogen levels are in check just because you don't have estrogen related sides.

Could you PM me? Was it a well known research chem

[mnt51]

Thanks, trying to plan first cycle. Question if using an AI on cycle and then you early gyno signs do you up AI dose or treat with nolvadex?

[BigBadWolf]

Hey swifto, which would you suggest while cruising Aromasin or anastrozole?