what sides to look out for on deca or 19 nors

[Brohim]

I don't think Deca does any "healing". There is no way to heal ligament's with a drug. Otherwise MLB pitcher's would not have to get surgury to repair ligaments they would just take some Deca. lol.

I think we can safely say that it provides (temporary) relief through holding more water at the joint's and lubricating them while on cycle. If they healed then you would get that releif forever which is not the case.

[Brohim]

Let's also not forget that deca causes major HPTA supression which IMO Is a huge turnoff for someone who is not on HRT. I don't think the benefit's are worth it to cycle.

[choker28]

I did not at all assume you were disputing anything, I wanted to share my first low-dose cycle experience as well, and further explain myself concerning Deca use and joint health.

It is all dandy

well thank-you for sharing that information , its great to get different opinions on a very controversial subject ,and lets face it AAS is a mine field of controversy

[slimshady01]

Always something to scare me before I start my cycle Monday of deca and test.

I choose deca because it's safe on hair loss. Test I can control dht so it has not affected me.

And var as my choice of oral. Thought I was being safer just running these compounds. I was tempted to try tren at a low 200mg a week but still worried I'll shed like a chemo patient.

Now I may not run deca after this cycle I'll be stuck with var and test lol.

[Times Roman]

Mate,
I am relieved there was actually a link to hopefully some clinical data at the bottom. Unfortunately, the link does not work for me. Would you be so kind as to copy and paste the referenced material for us to look at? Additionally, how many mg/week does your study suggest is a heavy and therefore damaging dose rate?
Thanks
---Roman

[kelkel]

Very imformative and thought provoking thread. Consider all drugs have sides and are dose dependent. The more you do the more the possibility of issues arising. Especially if not monitored by routine BW.

To keep things in perspective read the side effects of vitamin C and other OTC supplements. For that matter if aspirin came out today it would be a prescription only substance.

[choker28]

Mate,
I am relieved there was actually a link to hopefully some clinical data at the bottom. Unfortunately, the link does not work for me. Would you be so kind as to copy and paste the referenced material for us to look at? Additionally, how many mg/week does your study suggest is a heavy and therefore damaging dose rate?
Thanks
---Roman

http://www.ergo-log.com/nandrotest.html

[BBrian]

This has been an awesome thread in regards to provoking thought and debating the potential risks of using Nandrolone. But some of you I feel are seriously overreacting. First of all, to declare that Nandrolone is too dangerous to use at all is absurd, especially if you are going to turn around and take compounds such as Trenbolone, Anadrol or Winstrol. But for that matter, ALL anabolic steroids provide serious potential health risks. This is where the importance of using these compounds in relative safe doses and relative safe periods of time is terribly important. I'm reading a lot of debate as to whether or not Nandrolone bears the capability of healing joints and tendons. I have successfully used Nandrolone as a stand-alone compound in a ten week cycle with undeniable healing affects on damaged tendons and muscle tissue in my shoulder that was a result of a judo match gone very bad, where I was slammed on my head instead of my back and had very limited healing after a four month period until I injected 200mg of Nandrolone Decanoate per week for 10 weeks. And I have read several posts by steroid.com members who have had similar results. I have had success using Anavar to deplete trunk fat, and I have had success using testosterone to cut fat as well, yet I have read several posts by members declaring that this isn't necessarily possible. My point is that when people make declarations about the effects of certain compounds, take it with a grain of salt and realize that without extensive research and personal experience, you should not let one person convince you of any facts, especially considering the fact that very few of us are actual professionals in the medical or biochemical industry. I am currently using Nandrolone Decanoate and will continue to do so in future cycles, because I am aware of the associated benefits and risks at certain doses and periods of time based on research and personal experience over a course of over a decade of use.

[Turkish Juicer]

BBrian, thank you for your valuable input. I would like to point out that this was NOT supposed to be a theoretical debate whether one should use Nandrolone or not; or anything along those lines. Human research concludes that 1 mg of Nandrolone is 11 times more damaging to blood vessels than Test. This is a plain fact and one can interpret this however he wants, yet the fact remains. In addition, I have come across with SEVERAL human and animal studies concerning Nandrolone use with similar conclusions, I will be more than happy to reveal every single reference and share it with you or whoever else that may be intrigued about this subject.

Now, if you do the math, you can easily leap to such conclusions: instead of running a cycle of 100mg of Nandrolone for X amount of time, you can run 1100mg of Test for the same amount of time and your blood vessels will suffer just the same on a cellular level; however, you will be much stronger during the cycle and grow by far more during your cycle (also more vasodilation and what not).

So, it is after all a pretty drastic analogy when you think about it.

... and when it comes to everything else you said about putting bunch of other AAS in our systems, damn right who knows how much overall damage we create when we inject ourselves with Winstrol, Trenbolone or when we stack them with orals like Dianabol, Anavar and etc. As a matter of fact, every single animal and human study suggest that even at mild doses and short term AAS usages, there is certainly genetic damage at the cellular level as well as much increased chance of breast cancer along with other cancer types, and all types of cardiovascular damage and risk of stroke due to forming of blood clots. So, unlike your optimistic approach above, even those who are extremely cautious about their cycle length and dosages, risks are always there and there is always a certain amount of damage given to one's body and this simply cannot be ignored or denied.

Lastly, we may not be professionals in the medical or biochemical industry, but we are not actually ignorant people either. So, here is a question from an educated person to another one: Deca has been around since early 1960's and millions of people have used it. Like yourself, they have supposedly all benefited from its joint healing and tendon strengthening properties even at the lowest possible doses. So, why the fvck one out of millions of orthopedics and experts of physical rehab living on this planet has not employed a low dosing of Deca cycle to cure a joint or tendon problem? Here is why: there is not a single scientific study that has been conducted over the past 50 years to even suggest that there may be a direct correlation between mild Nandrolone use and healing of joints. On the other hand, I, as a nutritionist, will gladly advice a mild Primobolan Depot cycle (100mg every 14 days) to anyone who comes to me with a severe case of Anemia that cannot be cured on a level of adjusted diet, and I will conduct this method not only because it simply works but it is scientifically explainable HOW it works. On the ethical side, this AAS is neither genotoxic nor will it suppress the HTPA to a noticeable extent when conducted at the given dose and injection frequency above.

I have respect for your personal experience and as a matter of fact, I am glad to hear that Deca has fixed your problems. However, I cannot be expected to approach this subject on an individual level.

[D7M]

DGHGM: I have never been a fan of Deca, a weak compound to begin with

Honestly, I stopped reading after that.

You can post all the studies you want, but deca as a weak compound? c'mon man.

[adamjames]

I think some people who have used lots of nandrolone are starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel for an argument here, turkish is right, the article says 1 mg of nandrolone is 11 times more damaging than 1mg of test to blood vessels but it also says that the damage will only happen after prolonged heavy use but it does not state how long that use has to be!! How longs a piece of string? All steroids will do damgage after prolonged use but the article would suggest nandrolone would do more damage in the long term! obviously aswell genetic makeups as mentioned will determine just how detrimental the abuse will be from person to person, all i know is i will think twice about including deca in future cycles

[Turkish Juicer]

Honestly, I stopped reading after that.

You can post all the studies you want, but deca as a weak compound? c'mon man.

D7M: I am well aware of certain facts about Deca that it is a very strong anabolic and binds to the androgenic receptor very well, just like Primobolan Depot, for instance.

When I typed that sentence, I meant to say ''a weak androgen,'' having Test in mind as a comparison.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding and disappointment I have caused in you, but I wish you had NOT stopped reading.

... and I have not posted any studies so far, except for a link that I have shared (in fact, another user had posted it on before I did).

Lastly, I too grew on my Deca cycle, but it was stacked with a generous amount of Test, so I am not the one to say whether gains are significant and retainable with Deca-only cycles, not that I remember ever commenting on this subject, specifically.

[BBrian]

Lastly, we may not be professionals in the medical or biochemical industry, but we are not actually ignorant people either. So, here is a question from an educated person to another one: Deca has been around since early 1960's and millions of people have used it. Like yourself, they have supposedly all benefited from its joint healing and tendon strengthening properties even at the lowest possible doses. So, why the fvck one out of millions of orthopedics and experts of physical rehab living on this planet has not employed a low dosing of Deca cycle to cure a joint or tendon problem? Here is why: there is not a single scientific study that has been conducted over the past 50 years to even suggest that there may be a direct correlation between mild Nandrolone use and healing of joints. On the other hand, I, as a nutritionist, will gladly advice a mild Primobolan Depot cycle (100mg every 14 days) to anyone who comes to me with a severe case of Anemia that cannot be cured on a level of adjusted diet, and I will conduct this method not only because it simply works but it is scientifically explainable HOW it works. On the ethical side, this AAS is neither genotoxic nor will it suppress the HTPA to a noticeable extent when conducted at the given dose and injection frequency above.

I have respect for your personal experience and as a matter of fact, I am glad to hear that Deca has fixed your problems. However, I cannot be expected to approach this subject on an individual level.

Actually, scientists have only recently begun to study the effects of anabolic steroids on tendons and joints such as the rotator cuffs. To say that there is no scientific proof linking the use of Nandrolone with joint recovery is simply to be impatient. At first, scientists found that injecting Nandrolone directly into the area of a damaged cuff to be detrimental. But in a later study, it was determined that by administering Nandrolone systemically, it actually did aid in recovery. The exact mechanisms by which Nandrolone aid in healing are far from being understood, but don't be too quick to dismiss it. This science simply has not caught up with us yet, and that should hardly come as a surprise to most.

[Cards777]

Always something to scare me before I start my cycle Monday of deca and test.

I choose deca because it's safe on hair loss. Test I can control dht so it has not affected me.

And var as my choice of oral. Thought I was being safer just running these compounds. I was tempted to try tren at a low 200mg a week but still worried I'll shed like a chemo patient.

Now I may not run deca after this cycle I'll be stuck with var and test lol.

How do you control dht in Test?

[slimshady01]

How do you control dht in Test?

Finasteride