2nd Cycle

[warmouth]

Test E and P will both aromatize, so I think for now you would be better off pinning the E. Diet can effect water retention as well. HCG pin 2x weekly, AI use EOD ad adjust as you see fit. Prop can get painful if you are new to pinning. It is my favorite, but long esters are just as effective.

[jfromthebloc]

Thanks for all the solid input. So how does this look?
-Test E 250mg twice weekly
-Arimidex .5 EOD
-HCG of some sort twice weekly (are there orals for this?)
-T-bol 50mg ED
-3800 cals everyday
-Milk Thistle + Fish Oil twice daily

Thoughts?

Think that would throw 15lbs of lean muscle mass on me over 8 weeks?

[Tron3219]

Thanks for all the solid input. So how does this look?
-Test E 250mg twice weekly
-Arimidex .5 EOD
-HCG of some sort twice weekly (are there orals for this?)
-T-bol 50mg ED
-3800 cals everyday
-Milk Thistle + Fish Oil twice daily

Thoughts?

Think that would throw 15lbs of lean muscle mass on me over 8 weeks?

The test can u stretch out to 10-12 weeks? It doesn't really kick in till bout 4 weeks.

I've never done tbol but from what I remember, it may b low dosed. Do some research on that cuz I'm not sure.

[Capebuffalo]

Your killing me

Test e 250mgs 2x a week every 3.5 days 12 weeks
Armidex .25 eod start to finish of cycle adjust accordingly
Hcg 250iu 2x a week week 3-12
NO DBOL
Pct novla 40/20/20/20
clomid 100/50/50/50

[Tron3219]

Your killing me

Test e 250mgs 2x a week every 3.5 days 12 weeks
Armidex .25 eod start to finish of cycle adjust accordingly
Hcg 250iu 2x a week week 3-12
NO DBOL
Pct novla 40/20/20/20
clomid 100/50/50/50

Bahahaha beat the dead horse cape, BEAT IT!!!!

[jfromthebloc]

Sorry for becoming a dead horse so quickly. Didn't realize. Ill get better as I mature on these boards with knowledge and experience.

Since you guys favor food to protein shakes except for casien before bed, where are you getting your aminos and such post workout?

[Capebuffalo]

Follow the cycle layed out but have your diet in check you will make good gains. But get the diet down before you start.

[Capebuffalo]

My second meal is post workout.

[jfromthebloc]

How did I know you were going to say that? Lol. So I should no longer waste my money on bcaa's I suppose. Thanks!

[Tron3219]

How did I know you were going to say that? Lol. So I should no longer waste my money on bcaa's I suppose. Thanks!

I personally mix them. I have a bcaa/carb drink waiting for me in my truck for the ride home. As soon as I get home I have a post work out meal.

[Tron3219]

This is my typical diet. Keep in mind i use more powder then I should because I live in a hotel for the most part. But I'm constantly making changes and improvements, putting whole foods in place of powder as much as possible.

6a calories protein carbs fats
2 scoop whey 320 68 4 2
1 cup oatmeal 300 10 54 3
1 cup skim milk 90 9 12 0
totals 710 87 70 5

9a
2 chicken breast 220 48 2 3
string cheese 80 7 0.5 6
cla 20 0 0 2
2 tbs natural pb 190 8 6 17
totals 510 63 8.5 28

12p
2 chicken breast 220 48 2 3
2 cup brown rice 320 10 70 6
totals 540 58 72 9

3p
2 cans of tuna 140 22 0 6
2 tbsp miricle whip 40 0 4 3
omega 3,6,9 pills 20 0 0 2
veggies 40 1 7 1.5
cla 20 0 0 2
totals 260 23 11 14.5

6p
2 chicken breasts 220 48 2 3
2 cup brown rice 320 10 70 6
totals 540 58 72 9

8p
preworkout 26 0 8 0
karbolyn 200 0 50 0
bcaa 40 10 0 0
workout
266 10 58 0
9p
2 scoop whey 320 68 4 2
2 chicken breast 220 48 2 3
1 cup brown rice 170 5 35 3
veggies 40 1 7 1.5
bcaa 40 10 0 0
karbolyn 200 0 50 0
totals 990 132 98 9.5

11p
2 scoop casein 240 48 3 1
2 tbs pb 190 8 6 17
totals 240 48 3 1


totals 4246 494 398 93

[Capebuffalo]

Honestly the money I spend on food and gear supplements are not a top priority for me.

[jfromthebloc]

Cape,

You told me 90% of any good cycle is diet. That said, how is the money you spend on your diet not a big priority? From what I'm learning it sounds like it should be the biggest priority. Furthermore, if the other 10% of results is comprised of gear and actual workouts, where do you focus the cost effectiveness of your overall goals? You just officially lost me.

[Tron3219]

Cape,

You told me 90% of any good cycle is diet. That said, how is the money you spend on your diet not a big priority? From what I'm learning it sounds like it should be the biggest priority. Furthermore, if the other 10% of results is comprised of gear and actual workouts, where do you focus the cost effectiveness of your overall goals? You just officially lost me.

He was saying that because of all the money he spends on food and gear, supplements isn't something he wishes to spend money on. I believe that's what he was trying to say, he's prolly driving again lol

[Capebuffalo]

He was saying that because of all the money he spends on food and gear, supplements isn't something he wishes to spend money on. I believe that's what he was trying to say, he's prolly driving again lol

That's exactly what I was saying. Fvck dude I'm close to $200 a week for my food.
That doesn't include my wife and son. That's my meals. Food cost me more than gear.
That should put it in perspective. It is constant. I make all my meals sunday and package them. Except the first 2. I put them in the blender every morning and make shakes. Does that clear it up.
I am bloated and uncomfortable most of the day. I hate eating. But it has to be done. Simple fact.
Did I mention I hate eating.

[Tron3219]

That's exactly what I was saying. Fvck dude I'm close to $200 a week for my food.
That doesn't include my wife and son. That's my meals. Food cost me more than gear.
That should put it in perspective. It is constant. I make all my meals sunday and package them. Except the first 2. I put them in the blender every morning and make shakes. Does that clear it up.
I am bloated and uncomfortable most of the day. I hate eating. But it has to be done. Simple fact.
Did I mention I hate eating.

I'll second that...I grimace at least once every three hours lol

[Wazz]

LOL, this has been a great thread.....

[Tron3219]

LOL, this has been a great thread.....

Lurk much? Lol

[Tron3219]

Makes we want to cut up so I don't have to eat so damn much lol

[Capebuffalo]

Cutting now. Down 10 lbs. 5 more before next Wednesday
It has been great not eating as much. My stomach actually growled from hunger at 2 pm today.
Awesome. Little things.

[jfromthebloc]

You're going to drop an additional 5 in the next 8 days? That seems extreme. Good luck. Let me know if you accomplish that...id be interested to know!

[Capebuffalo]

You're going to drop an additional 5 in the next 8 days? That seems extreme. Good luck. Let me know if you accomplish that...id be interested to know!

Go to the lounge and look at the Bulk Classic thread
We have to gain 15 lbs starting 11/1-2/15. Lowest bf most improved est lookin
All mandatory poses. I would like to be 195. To start. Was 212. 200 today.

[jfromthebloc]

What gear are you running for this comp, Cape? What's your tdee and caloric intake goal? Also, how many days are u weight training and doing cardio? Going to be interesting to see the progress. Its basically the same exact thing I want to do so I'm definitely curious.

[Capebuffalo]

I will be running several different compounds. Test as the main one.
My Tdee is 3350. After next Wednesday I will go to 4000
Then 4200 then 4500. As my weight increases. This is over 15 weeks with a cut at the end
I work each body part once a week. 5/2

[jfromthebloc]

4800 torwards the end there is going to be brutal! Ill be rooting for you. Is there a prize or just bragging rights and an awesome frame waiting for you at the end?

[Capebuffalo]

4800 torwards the end there is going to be brutal! Ill be rooting for you. Is there a prize or just bragging rights and an awesome frame waiting for you at the end?

Both. Anything over 4200 is horrible for me. 4200 isn't easy

[jfromthebloc]

Since getting my eyes opened by you cats in regards to eating I'm finishing up my first 3800 cal day and as I'm cooking my final meal of the day I've got one thing to say: OY.

I started this morning with a six egg omlette w/ veggies and turkey bacon. Then I ate a bowl of kashi with a scoop of protein powder mixed into the whole milk with blueberries sprinkled on top.

Mid morning snack I had almonds and a protein bar (I've got a box I need to kill). Then prior to gym I had two cans of tuna. Followed up the workout with a shake.

For lunch I ate an entire rottiserie chix with an apple. People at work thought I was a frickin nut bc I brought the whole thing into my office and was picking at it for at least and hour.

Mid afternoon I ate four chix garlic sausages from sprouts with an avocado and tomato slices.

Now I'm cooking 12 oz of lean ground turkey. I'm so full I have no idea how I'm going to shovel it down.

I know why you guys say you hate eating. This is going to be rough, but I'm committed to figure out how to make it work. Thanks again for opening these eyes of mine...and wish me luck on this journey!

[Tron3219]

Since getting my eyes opened by you cats in regards to eating I'm finishing up my first 3800 cal day and as I'm cooking my final meal of the day I've got one thing to say: OY.

Haha that last word says it all

Good luck dead horse

[rikuzo]

Male
28yrs Old
172 lbs
6"2
10-12% Body Fat

Hi there,

I just finished my first var/winnie cycle and I've been lurking on these boards obsessively for months. I absolutely loved my first cycle. It made me more consistent than I've ever been, I look great, and my strength is better than ever. I also never experienced any sides or anything negative for that matter. I got strong and leaned out. That said, I didn't get much bigger without a test base. So as I sit here and plan my second cycle I would appreciate some advice. I'm thinking oral t-bar with some sort of test base. Ideally I'd like to find one with minimal sides--especially of the gyno variety, one that doesn't need to be injected often, low water retention, and one that people don't bitch about the pain so much like prop. I'm a wuss I know, but I'm just starting out so take it easy on me, because the ideas of needles scare the shit out of me.

My goals are not to get crazy big. I want to achieve a bw of 185-190 with a single digit body fat percentage. I would also like to continue to get stronger. My goal for the last year has been to bench my own body weight and now that I can do that I'd love to be able to rep 225 some day.

I would appreciate any advice you guys could offer.

Thanks so much and happy to be here.

What was your mass/strength gains with first cycle?

[jfromthebloc]

Honestly, difficult to know because I didn't keep strict logs or what not. I can say my strength in various lifts went consiberably up. Most notably, my bench went from 115 to 185 and my military presses went from 65 to 95. Other than that my other lifts realized pretty normal strength gains. That said, those are the two I've always enjoyed the most and worked hardest at.

As far as mass goes I've got a limited idea. When I started I was about 195 with little to no muscle mass or strength for that matter. I can tell you now I fluctuate between 172-175 and I'm pretty solid all the way around. Based on some pictures aimed to ballpark bf% on the nutrition thread id say its somewhere between 10-12%.

Now that I've got a half-way decent base, a little bit of experience, and a newfound passion for this I'm going to get much more scientific for my next cycle. I plan on logging the progress from all angles on the experience thread when the time comes and I expect much better results with the knowledge I've aquired since.

[rikuzo]

Honestly, difficult to know because I didn't keep strict logs or what not. I can say my strength in various lifts went consiberably up. Most notably, my bench went from 115 to 185 and my military presses went from 65 to 95. Other than that my other lifts realized pretty normal strength gains. That said, those are the two I've always enjoyed the most and worked hardest at.

As far as mass goes I've got a limited idea. When I started I was about 195 with little to no muscle mass or strength for that matter. I can tell you now I fluctuate between 172-175 and I'm pretty solid all the way around. Based on some pictures aimed to ballpark bf% on the nutrition thread id say its somewhere between 10-12%.

Now that I've got a half-way decent base, a little bit of experience, and a newfound passion for this I'm going to get much more scientific for my next cycle. I plan on logging the progress from all angles on the experience thread when the time comes and I expect much better results with the knowledge I've aquired since.

And when did test e kicked in for you? I am on my 2nd day of week 6 and still no strength gains.

[jfromthebloc]

I've never taken test e. I have, however, heard it could take 4-6 weeks before you start feeling anything. There are plenty of threads on here with very smart and experienced users who can offer first hand insight.

[Capebuffalo]

Welcome to the world of eating my friend.

[Tron3219]

Mmmm 9am and I'm eating two chicken breasts, cup of rice and veggies...third meal of the day

[jfromthebloc]

Cape...the other day when you said most of the day you feel bloated and uncomfortable; I get it. Wow. This is going to be a drastic life change for me. I just dumped and it felt like crowning a pine cone. Oy.

Tron...how were you on meal 3 by 9am? By that math you have what, twelve meals a day? I don't understand.

[Tron3219]

Cape...the other day when you said most of the day you feel bloated and uncomfortable; I get it. Wow. This is going to be a drastic life change for me. I just dumped and it felt like crowning a pine cone. Oy.

Tron...how were you on meal 3 by 9am? By that math you have what, twelve meals a day? I don't understand.

I woke up at 3 am for work, I rolled out of bed and made my shake, at 6a I had another meal, at 9 on my 3rd. I knew I was going to b going bed by 8...my diet revolves around my work schedule...

[jfromthebloc]

Tron, Graveyard was my first inclination also. But then again, I wouldn't put 12 meals daily past you. Glad to see you're doing the bulk classic. Good luck!

[Sworder]

jfromthebloc, could you clarify if you had any adverse effects on your libido during your first cycle(var/winny)?

Seemingly from your post, you didn't.

[Tron3219]

Tron, Graveyard was my first inclination also. But then again, I wouldn't put 12 meals daily past you. Glad to see you're doing the bulk classic. Good luck!

I'm not doing the bulk classic, purely for myself bud. Just trying to put on some lean natural lbs before I go on cycle. It's not working to well lol been eating 4200ish clean calories a day for a month now and I've lost 2 pounds, I tried eating 4500 the past two days. I feel like I'm gonna rupture. I'm either gonna have to dirty it up a lil or just accept that 220ish is my genetic potential lol

[jfromthebloc]

My libido was great. Even a little better than usual. My woman thinks it made things harder down there too. Everyone is different though.