Shut down vs, HARD shutdown

[Granovich]

Just out of curiosity how long we're they on gear?

2 years straight on 19nor's

[binsser]

Mmm i said 6 weeks because thats how quick i always recover but i went from a tren and test cycle to a 1750 mg of primo and 400mg of test with only 6 weeks rest between and my recovery and last few weeks did change because my dick didnt work properly that is a harder shutdown if you want to call it that but i would just say this time it was differant but i didnt like it one bit either..who would ur dick dont ****ing work lolol but ill only get it when messing about with tren nothing else strange!!!

So is it harder NO but it might feel like that too others so hence the sentance I WAS SHUTDOWN HARD !!

[binsser]

Just out of curiosity how long we're they on gear?

??? Lol 2 years mate ???

[Bio-Active]

??? Lol 2 years mate ???

Umm..... Did they stay on for 2 years straight with no breaks or did they cycle on and off for 2 years?

[binsser]

No good !! Imagine looking the bollocks with women all over you but you cant shag em properly mmmmm 19 nors can **** you good!

[Granovich]

No good !! Imagine looking the bollocks with women all over you but you cant shag em properly mmmmm 19 nors can **** you good!

I dont need to imagine
Happened to me for over a year
Stayed shutdown and lived on cialis lol
Was horrible
When i forget to take cialis and my girls wants it
I say im so tired and i didnt have enough sleep LOL
Thank god for HCG

[binsser]

I dont need to imagine
Happened to me for over a year
Stayed shutdown and lived on cialis lol
Was horrible
When i forget to take cialis and my girls wants it
I say im so tired and i didnt have enough sleep LOL
Thank god for HCG

Oucheee yeah i went and bought 100 viagra cause im a horney ****er and that day it came back so now ive got a shit load if viagra i dont need lolol glad your ok now bud ,but they do say for some people it can take upto a year to recover for some not good i dont get any side really except on 19 nors gutting really cause i f cking love tren lol

[Lunk1]

No good !! Imagine looking the bollocks with women all over you but you cant shag em properly mmmmm 19 nors can **** you good!

Like a lot of your comments...this is pure BS! 19nors can fuk ya! Only if you are not responsable!

I am sick and tired of this 19nor compounds being the fkn devil! Ive run plenty of them...long runs and high doses! When done right I have no real issues. 19nors will be a staple of my AAS diet forever!

[marcus300]

Like a lot of your comments...this is pure BS! 19nors can fuk ya! Only if you are not responsable!

I am sick and tired of this 19nor compounds being the fkn devil! Ive run plenty of them...long runs and high doses! When done right I have no real issues. 19nors will be a staple of my AAS diet forever!

Maybe for you but its an individual thing and not everyone responds the same to them. There is a high % what have problems with recovery from a 19nor compounds and I also know a few guys who dont, so treating them with caution is the best way when advicing members imho.

[Lunk1]

Maybe for you but its an individual thing and not everyone responds the same to them. There is a high % what have problems with recovery from a 19nor compounds and I also know a few guys who dont, so treating them with caution is the best way when advicing members imho.

I whole heartedly agree marcus...I know guys who simply can't use Tren. They react very poorly to it! But is the problem the compound, or the lack of knowledge of the user on how to use them safetly?

[marcus300]

I whole heartedly agree marcus...I know guys who simply can't use Tren. They react very poorly to it! But is the problem the compound, or the lack of knowledge of the user on how to use them safetly?

Well I know plenty of very knowledgeable bodybuilders who really suffer with recovery from 19nors, so I wouldn't say everybody doesn't know how to run them properly or know how to use them safely but without doubt there are many guys who suffer with recovery using 19nors. You must be one of the lucky ones who don't

[Angel of death]

I've never used tren but I've run deca with minimal test for good while and recovered with no problem. But I do feel like some people make it seem like the libido enhancement testosterone brings means you aren't as "shut down" as someone with no libido on deca. In fact, that definitely goes on here to a degree, and its wrong.

[Bonaparte]

I never had any libido issues from Deca, but just 50mg of Tren EOD was giving me serious erection issues after 6 weeks (even stacked with 300mg of test).
It isn't just about the LH and FSH suppression, but the actual effect of the drug on penis function and libido.

[Lunk1]

I never had any libido issues from Deca, but just 50mg of Tren EOD was giving me serious erection issues after 6 weeks (even stacked with 300mg of test).
It isn't just about the LH and FSH suppression, but the actual effect of the drug on penis function and libido.

and you are with no doubt, posotive, it wasn't E2 related?

[Bonaparte]

and you are with no doubt, posotive, it wasn't E2 related?

I'm certain. It was the tren itself.

[Far from massive]

I really think a lot of this is internet doctors playing word games. Anyone who has done 300mg wk of test E for 12 wks and also done 1000 mg of Tren E a wk for 12 wks (with whatever dose of test) can tell you that the larger dose of Tren will be a lot harder to recover from and the problems seen during recovery will be more severe.

So replace "shutdown" with "bodychemistry fvcd up" and soft and hard with kinda and totally....you get the picture.

Until someone comes up with data showing all the collective changes ( since I assume its more than 1) that account for this difference and finds a term to describe them it makes it tough to give a good answer to the question.

The only reason I am saying all this is, many a time I see someone ask "Does Tren shuts you down harder than Test" and get told "No do your homework, shut down is shutdown" with no further explanation.

[Lunk1]

I really think a lot of this is internet doctors playing word games. Anyone who has done 300mg wk of test E for 12 wks and also done 1000 mg of Tren E a wk for 12 wks (with whatever dose of test) can tell you that the larger dose of Tren will be a lot harder to recover from and the problems seen during recovery will be more severe.
So replace "shutdown" with "bodychemistry fvcd up" and soft and hard with kinda and totally....you get the picture.

Until someone comes up with data showing all the collective changes ( since I assume its more than 1) that account for this difference and finds a term to describe them it makes it tough to give a good answer to the question.

The only reason I am saying all this is, many a time I see someone ask "Does Tren shuts you down harder than Test" and get told "No do your homework, shut down is shutdown" with no further explanation.

You speak mainly of recovery FFM...but what about effects ON cycle? Lets use an example: subject X uses 700mg EW test and uses bloodwork to assure everything else is in check. Same subject a year later does 500mg test/300mg deca, again he uses BW to assure all other hormone levels are kept in range! Is there a "harder" shutdown due to the addition of the 19nor?

I think Marcus made it clear that, like alot of other things AAS related. It is individualy based on a persons response and tolerance of certain compounds.

My beef is the carte blanche statement "Tren/deca shuts you down harder than another AAS" . This might in a sense be true for some individuals!

[Far from massive]

Now that I got the apology part taken care of, I really do feel that until we can document and apply a name to the changes that do make recover take longer and the problems seen during recovery more severe, we are doing those asking the questions a disservice as many ask if Tren shuts you down harder than Test (naturally they are speaking of common doses) and are told no shutdown is shutdown and this really is not helping to answer their question.

As far as your specific example, While I agree with Marcus that its certainly varies person to person, look how many times people post that they have done a test cycle and are having long lasting problems compared to how many post the same in regard to 19nors and I think its clear that for the population as a whole 19nors do present more of a problem. Particularly in the area of sexual performance.

[Far from massive]

First let me say that my comment about internet doctors was uncalled for...grumpy old man syndrome.

As to the cycles laid out I don't think it would matter which you did first. I really do feel that Tren particularly will cause more changes to body chemistry than test. Of course in all fairness to Tren this may in large be due to the fact that mg for mg its a lot more potent than Test and is generally run at close to the same doses.

[Lunk1]

First let me say that my comment about internet doctors was uncalled for...grumpy old man syndrome.

As to the cycles laid out I don't think it would matter which you did first. I really do feel that Tren particularly will cause more changes to body chemistry than test. Of course in all fairness to Tren this may in large be due to the fact that mg for mg its a lot more potent than Test and is generally run at close to the same doses.

There was no offense taken, I found it comical and correct in many cases lol!

My believe is...that MANY cases (not all) that the "feeling" of being shutdown more comes from ones inability to properly regulate other influences (mainly estrogen). Granted...as Marcus made it clear. Some ppl no matter what precautions they take, have more isssues simply because of 19nors.

Appreciate your incite FFM!

[Far from massive]

There was no offense taken, I found it comical and correct in many cases lol!

My believe is...that MANY cases (not all) that the "feeling" of being shutdown more comes from ones inability to properly regulate other influences (mainly estrogen). Granted...as Marcus made it clear. Some ppl no matter what precautions they take, have more isssues simply because of 19nors.

Appreciate your incite FFM!

Damnit Bro, You type to fast LOL

[songdog]

I really think wat guys are saying when they say shut down hard is guys having libdo and ed issues.This is why I use the term.you are not shut down harder but a lot of guys have more issues with 19Nors.Hence shut down hard! While it maybe the wrong term it works unless you want to pick it apart