***Dieting 101: Carb Cycling***

[gbrice75]

Hey GB so on you low day what veggies woul you say stay away from I know carrots aren't very good but don't know of any others, I don't like veggies much the ones I can stand are broccoli,cauliflower,asparagus,any squash,artichokes, ca I just stic to those? Also started my log if you have some extra time your input is always welcome anything you see wrong I would like your opinion.thanks again man.

You can definitely stick with broccoli/cauliflower/asparagus/artichokes... I'd probably forfeit the squash personally. Any green or red lettuces, spinach, green beans, etc. are fair game too. Kale is excellent for you.

I'll have a look asap.

[Dougiefresh7707]

You can definitely stick with broccoli/cauliflower/asparagus/artichokes... I'd probably forfeit the squash personally. Any green or red lettuces, spinach, green beans, etc. are fair game too. Kale is excellent for you.

I'll have a look asap.

Yea I use alot of kale or spinach in my ground turkey I like it cuz you pack a ton in the pan and it cooks to like nothing so I dump even more in lol.

[Brazensol]

You mentioned that even on low carb days you will end up taking in low amount of carbs. My question is - how low is low enough for the diet to still be effective? Under 10 grams? Twenty?

[krugerr]

You mentioned that even on low carb days you will end up taking in low amount of carbs. My question is - how low is low enough for the diet to still be effective? Under 10 grams? Twenty?

Usually under 50g a day I found was effective for low carb days. This allowed me to not directly eat carbs, but still fit macros for the carbs in the other things, plus with enough veg it'll add up.

[javajim]

Quantity Calories Total Calories Fat Protein Carbs
Eggs 3 17 51 0.3 10.8 0.6
Bee pollen 2 tbl 64 64 0.48 2.4 4.34
Tuna 8 oz 220 220 5.1 40.6 0
Broccoli 1 cup 20 20 0.2 2.1 3.7
Green Beans 1 cup 44 44 0.4 2.4 9.9
Turkey 8 oz 150 300 1.6 75 0
Beans 1/2 cup 100 100 0.5 6.5 17.5 xxxxxxxx
Oatmeal 2 cups 166 332 1.4 11.8 56.2 xxxxxxxx
Raisins 1/4 cup 108 108 0.1 1.1 26 xxxxxxxx
Almonds 20 164 164 14.4 6 5.6 xxxxxxxx
Wild rice or Quinoa av ca 1/2 cup 83 83 0.75 3.6 18.5 xxxxxxxx
Protein Shake 1 110 110 1 11 4
Olive Oil 2 tbl 240 240 28 0 0
Lentils 1/2 cup 130 130 0.04 8.5 20 xxxxxxxx
peanut butter 2 tbl 188 188 16 8 6.8 xxxxxxxx











Carbs total 2154 70.27 189.8 173.14 On low carb day 1633 cal



















Carbs Cycle by Day



Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday
Med Carb Medlum Carb Low Carb Low Carb Low Carb High Carb Meduim Carb

















On hight Carb day potatoes pasta bread rice beans fruit any good Carbs




Sorry I dont why it wont line up The x is what I dont have on low carb day I think I am ok on high carb day but not sure about the rest
56 years old,5-10,216 17-18 bf I think. Thanks for looking

[gbrice75]

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Quantity Calories Total Calories Fat Protein Carbs
Eggs 3 17 51 0.3 10.8 0.6
Bee pollen 2 tbl 64 64 0.48 2.4 4.34
Tuna 8 oz 220 220 5.1 40.6 0
Broccoli 1 cup 20 20 0.2 2.1 3.7
Green Beans 1 cup 44 44 0.4 2.4 9.9
Turkey 8 oz 150 300 1.6 75 0
Beans 1/2 cup 100 100 0.5 6.5 17.5 xxxxxxxx
Oatmeal 2 cups 166 332 1.4 11.8 56.2 xxxxxxxx
Raisins 1/4 cup 108 108 0.1 1.1 26 xxxxxxxx
Almonds 20 164 164 14.4 6 5.6 xxxxxxxx
Wild rice or Quinoa av ca 1/2 cup 83 83 0.75 3.6 18.5 xxxxxxxx
Protein Shake 1 110 110 1 11 4
Olive Oil 2 tbl 240 240 28 0 0
Lentils 1/2 cup 130 130 0.04 8.5 20 xxxxxxxx
peanut butter 2 tbl 188 188 16 8 6.8 xxxxxxxx











Carbs total 2154 70.27 189.8 173.14 On low carb day 1633 cal



















Carbs Cycle by Day



Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday
Med Carb Medlum Carb Low Carb Low Carb Low Carb High Carb Meduim Carb

















On hight Carb day potatoes pasta bread rice beans fruit any good Carbs




Sorry I dont why it wont line up The x is what I dont have on low carb day I think I am ok on high carb day but not sure about the rest
56 years old,5-10,216 17-18 bf I think. Thanks for looking

[jGrande]

I swear it's tuff for me to think about cycling. A good diet is so hard to formulate and stick to then throw some daily changes in there and I'm confused Great post

[gbrice75]

Can you elaborate on this?

thanks!

Can't recall the PO or context in which I was replying to ... but hit me up if this is still up in the air, lol.

I have a question that may be stupide but I'm 6'7" 315 pounds. I would like to get down to 280. I've been ready all the stickys abt cutting an diets I'm not on a cycle right now or plaining on it untill I can get down to that 280 mark. My question is can I do your carb cycling for cutting plain week end week out untill I hit my goal? If I want to be at 280 should I figure up my calories and protein and so on for a 280 pound man or a 315 pound man? I'm confused exactly how to get my tdee. If you can help me out I would be greatful and thank you for the knowledge I've already gained.

Not to be overly general or simplistic, but there are many ways to achieve a fat loss goal. Carb cycling is nothing more than a tool that can be utilized with any intelligent, well thought out diet plan where dropping body fat is the goal. Conversely, it can be used to 'bulk' as well - therefore is not exclusive to cutting diets/dropping bodyfat.

All of this to say - you can use carb cycling for as long as you like, but when you hit a plateau (and you will), you'll know it's time to make a change.

Bumping this. It's an awesome tool for fat loss

Thanks brother - have always appreciated your support!

Ok, maybe you can help me understand.

I get the part where you keep your body guessing because of the different small amounts of carbs mostly...It takes a couple of weeks for your body to get use to the low carbs before it starts using the high fats for energy and that leaves you with low energy for the first couple of weeks?

What happens when you come off carb cycling?

Assuming overall caloric intake stays relatively close to what it was during your carb cycle (let's say within the range of a week) - nothing 'happens'. You may feel slightly different (tired or more energetic) depending on how you've statically adjusted your macros vs. cycling.

Is that the right way to do carbs on a cut?

mod carbs - m-t-w
low carbs - th-fri-sat
high carbs - sun

It's been years, but pretty sure that's how I did it. If I recall (I'm too lazy to check now), I posted my original plan, or something similar to it, in the OP. Check it out.

I swear it's tuff for me to think about cycling. A good diet is so hard to formulate and stick to then throw some daily changes in there and I'm confused Great post

Honestly, it's not that hard. People make it hard. People over complicate. Keyboard gurus, people wanting to sell you on the 'perfect' plan, etc. keeps our heads spinning. Not to trivialize, but it's pretty simple, really. cut = slight hypocaloric diet - caloric deficit created via limited food intake and/or increased physical output (cardio). add mass = slight hypercaloric diet - caloric surplus created by increased food intake (preferred) and/or less output (activity/cardio - not preferred IMO).

Smart food choices. 80/20 clean eating (clean being a relative term, I know). moderate-high protein with either goal, low-moderate fat with either goal, carbs being the biggest x-factor and adjuster for your given goal.

[Nackel]

I might try this less extreme version of carb cycling for cutting. The ultimate diet was a killer.

[JaneDoe]

Nackel Eu poderia tentar esta versão menos extrema do ciclo do carb para corte. A dieta final foi um assassino.

Parece ótimo, boa sorte mano

[menace2anus]

Sry if this sounds stupid, but how is his TDEE around 2600 when he is 5'11, 200lbs, 12% bodyfat and working out 5 days a week?

[Gallowmere]

Sry if this sounds stupid, but how is his TDEE around 2600 when he is 5'11, 200lbs, 12% bodyfat and working out 5 days a week?

It’s perfectly possible if all he does is train and sit on his ass otherwise (think desk jockey). I mean yeah, I require 3600 to maintain at 5’10”/194, but I also work a manual labor job that has me moving just about all damned day.

[Brazensol]

I am interested in starting carb cycling (for cutting) on this Monday. Does this look about right for me? I am going to use 450 for my calorie cut.

Weight:..........185
BF%:..............19.2
LBM.............150
TDEE............2250
Cal. Deficit...-450

Moderate Carb Days:

Protein....230
Carbs......130
Fat..........40

Low Carb Days:

Protein....230
Carbs......0
Fat..........40

Reload Day:

Protein....230
Carbs......345
Fat..........40

Thanks for looking!

[GANZZILLA]

I was interested in doing a bulk but what should my protein carbs and fats be. I'm 5'9 160 about 12% bf I train 6 days a week with cardio every other day.

[Brazensol]

GB - is your carb cycling diet set up to correspond with a 3 workout/week routine? If yes, would it still be effective with a 4 workout/week routine? I would be lifting on day 1 & 2 and day 5 & 6.

[gbrice75]

I am interested in starting carb cycling (for cutting) on this Monday. Does this look about right for me? I am going to use 450 for my calorie cut.

Weight:..........185
BF%:..............19.2
LBM.............150
TDEE............2250
Cal. Deficit...-450

Moderate Carb Days:

Protein....230
Carbs......130
Fat..........40

Low Carb Days:

Protein....230
Carbs......0
Fat..........40

Reload Day:

Protein....230
Carbs......345
Fat..........40

Thanks for looking!

Numbers look pretty good to me, although I'd bump fats up a bit. 50g or so. You probably don't need carbs to go above 300g on refeed day, but not a big deal really... matter of 200 calories, won't make or break anything.

I was interested in doing a bulk but what should my protein carbs and fats be. I'm 5'9 160 about 12% bf I train 6 days a week with cardio every other day.

I'd probably start at a 40/40/20 split @ around 2600 calories/day and tweak from there.

GB - is your carb cycling diet set up to correspond with a 3 workout/week routine? If yes, would it still be effective with a 4 workout/week routine? I would be lifting on day 1 & 2 and day 5 & 6.

When I was using carb cycling to cut, my workout schedule was 5x weekly. Definitely effective with the split you've laid out.

[Brazensol]

Thanks!

[Brazensol]

Fifty! That's easy! I was worried about 15g screwing it up. lol. Do grams from fiber count?

[Brazensol]

Ok, I went back and reread the cutting cycle info. I missed where he talked about the 50-100g of fibrous veggies not being a problem. Glad I reread it because I do like my veggies and not having them three days out of the week would have been tough. Just have to remember to avoid the starchy carbs.

[krugerr]

Ok, I went back and reread the cutting cycle info. I missed where he talked about the 50-100g of fibrous veggies not being a problem. Glad I reread it because I do like my veggies and not having them three days out of the week would have been tough. Just have to remember to avoid the starchy carbs.

Don't count fiver toward the carb macro, however your veggies will still have some carbs.
I eat typically 500g broccoli a day which is around 13g carbs and 17g fibre.

Write up a plan and post it up, be glad to take a look. I found it too me about 4 revisions to get my carb cycle to fit a simple shopping list and make it enjoyable. I just kept tinkering with other options to substitute if I got bored of a particular food. Until I arrived at the final revision which I feel I could eat everyday for 6 months and enjoy it.

So post it up and let's take a look!

[gbrice75]

You mentioned that even on low carb days you will end up taking in low amount of carbs. My question is - how low is low enough for the diet to still be effective? Under 10 grams? Twenty?

Usually, staying somewhere within 20-30g is sufficient to achieve a state of ketosis (after a few days). Although ketosis isn't our goal while carb cycling, it's a very 'safe' number to work with. In his book 'UD 2.0', Lyle McDonald notes that there is no appreciable difference between 20g and 50g carbs; however I still tend to err on the lower end.

Fifty! That's easy! I was worried about 15g screwing it up. lol. Do grams from fiber count?

Insoluble fiber doesn't count, however I personally count ALL fiber towards my total. This allows me 'think' I'm eating more, thereby keeping carbs in check. It's sort of my Jedi mind trick... Note - I'm not saying you should do this. It's just what I personally do.

Ok, I went back and reread the cutting cycle info. I missed where he talked about the 50-100g of fibrous veggies not being a problem. Glad I reread it because I do like my veggies and not having them three days out of the week would have been tough. Just have to remember to avoid the starchy carbs.

Eat them veggies! Fibrous veggies and starchy carbs aren't comparable in terms of how your body assimilates them.

[Ironman310]

Hey there what kind of cardio is best while carb cycling
Hiit it moderate (empty stomach ) thanks for all the advice

[gbrice75]

Hey there what kind of cardio is best while carb cycling
Hiit it moderate (empty stomach ) thanks for all the advice

All kinds... just do cardio!

[BuffMama]

Hi, just wanted to give feedback on carb cycling to bulk. I'm in week 3 and love it I'm gaining weight at a slow pace and that's good for me, I have a hard time putting on muscle so I'm very careful with my cals as to not put on fat. I'm impressed, Great stuff on this thread, thank you!

[gbrice75]

Hi, just wanted to give feedback on carb cycling to bulk. I'm in week 3 and love it I'm gaining weight at a slow pace and that's good for me, I have a hard time putting on muscle so I'm very careful with my cals as to not put on fat. I'm impressed, Great stuff on this thread, thank you!

Great job!! How long have you been at it (lifting, etc.) in general?

[BuffMama]

Great job!! How long have you been at it (lifting, etc.) in general?

Lifting 2 1/2 years, I've been working out 8 years doing whatever and finally found I love lifting did some figure shows in 2011, had a bad rebound and spent 2012 focusing on my diet through trial and error and a recovered metabolism I finally feel like I found my sweet spot. Eating lots of food gaining muscle and little fat

[gbrice75]

Lifting 2 1/2 years, I've been working out 8 years doing whatever and finally found I love lifting did some figure shows in 2011, had a bad rebound and spent 2012 focusing on my diet through trial and error and a recovered metabolism I finally feel like I found my sweet spot. Eating lots of food gaining muscle and little fat

Awesome! Always good to have another female member around who has competed... stick around, I'm sure you'll soon be helping and inspiring others around here, male and female alike!

[BuffMama]

Awesome! Always good to have another female member around who has competed... stick around, I'm sure you'll soon be helping and inspiring others around here, male and female alike!

I will stay around I'm Learning alot reading forums ive also been using anavar so I hope I can eventually help others with that and competing and nutrition

[Sub_Zero]

I seriously wish that majority of newbies would jump-start to this section rather than experimenting with AAS and the looking for someone to blame when things go out of hand Nevertheless, great post GB... really appreciate the info.
If it's not too much to ask i would like you to take a look at my stats and direct me whenever I'm on the right track:

Age: 24
Height: 6.0
Objective: Reach 80KG - 176LB while not going above 10%... Ideally not going above at all (Wishful thinking
Current: 74KG - 160LB (8%)
Calories: 3031
Protein: 341.9 - 53.66%
Carbohydrates: 200.9 - 31.52%
Fat: 94.4 - 14.82%

Training: 6 Days a Week
Intervals: 3 Day High Intensity (Weights (Drop-sets) + Resistance) (90 minutes) 3 Days Medium Intensity (Weights or Resistance) (60 minutes)

I'm was planning on incorporating sprint sessions during "3 Days Medium Intensity" days, however having doubts as it could promote additional calorie intake.

Also, out of pure curiosity, have you ever tried increasing fat intake while decreasing carbohydrates ? Theoretically, fast metabolism should recognize fat as alternative source of energy and mobilize it along with carbohydrates thus compensating energy depletion from lack of carbohydrates ? Any thoughts ?

Thanks

[gbrice75]

I seriously wish that majority of newbies would jump-start to this section rather than experimenting with AAS and the looking for someone to blame when things go out of hand Nevertheless, great post GB... really appreciate the info.

Thank you sir!

If it's not too much to ask i would like you to take a look at my stats and direct me whenever I'm on the right track:

Age: 24
Height: 6.0
Objective: Reach 80KG - 176LB while not going above 10%... Ideally not going above at all (Wishful thinking
Current: 74KG - 160LB (8%)
Calories: 3031
Protein: 341.9 - 53.66%
Carbohydrates: 200.9 - 31.52%
Fat: 94.4 - 14.82%

Protein is way high... I don't see the need. Your training is high output - so why not make your energy high input? 250g would be plenty. I'd take the remaining 400 calories and dump it all into carbs (100g more), or distribute it evenly between fat/carbs - 22g and 50g respectively.

Training: 6 Days a Week
Intervals: 3 Day High Intensity (Weights (Drop-sets) + Resistance) (90 minutes) 3 Days Medium Intensity (Weights or Resistance) (60 minutes)

I'm was planning on incorporating sprint sessions during "3 Days Medium Intensity" days, however having doubts as it could promote additional calorie intake.

Not sure I quite understand your routine, but like I said - it sounds like high output nonetheless.

Also, out of pure curiosity, have you ever tried increasing fat intake while decreasing carbohydrates ? Theoretically, fast metabolism should recognize fat as alternative source of energy and mobilize it along with carbohydrates thus compensating energy depletion from lack of carbohydrates ? Any thoughts ?

Thanks

Yes, and this is pretty much the idea behind keto dieting. I actually *do* run carbs relatively low, around 100g/day localized around my workout window with the remainder of meals just being protein/fat for the most part. Having said that, my caloric requirements are much less than that of yours.

[Sub_Zero]

Protein is way high... I don't see the need. Your training is high output - so why not make your energy high input? 250g would be plenty. I'd take the remaining 400 calories and dump it all into carbs (100g more), or distribute it evenly between fat/carbs - 22g and 50g respectively.

I see... this would provide additional energy throughout the day and it could be used throughout my Thur/Fri/Sat sessions where my training is based on average output: making it more dynamic. I'll definitely give a try and assess my performance based on it throughout the week.

Yes, and this is pretty much the idea behind keto dieting. I actually *do* run carbs relatively low, around 100g/day localized around my workout window with the remainder of meals just being protein/fat for the most part. Having said that, my caloric requirements are much less than that of yours.

At what body-fat & would you advice to attempt this approach as it certainly doesn't sound easy. Moreover, how are your energy levels fluctuating throughout the day based on on lower carbohydrates and higher fat intake ?

Also, what is your opinion on 6 meals per day vs 3 meals per day ?

Thanks

[gbrice75]

At what body-fat & would you advice to attempt this approach as it certainly doesn't sound easy. Moreover, how are your energy levels fluctuating throughout the day based on on lower carbohydrates and higher fat intake ?

I don't think you need to be at any specific level of BF to run a keto diet, although I tend to think results would be more favorable (i.e. more fat/less muscle lost) at higher bodyfat percentages. I don't know if I'd attempt it at <10% because I'd be more concerned about burning LBM at that point.

Personally, I've never done well on keto diets. I've run one twice and never quite felt right. I lost a lot of weight, but not much bodyfat. Looked small, felt weak. But I will say that at the time, my fats probably weren't high enough. When you take carbs out of the equation, your body needs energy from somewhere. If fat isn't sufficient, the only thing left is dietary protein and/or LBM.

Also, what is your opinion on 6 meals per day vs 3 meals per day ?

Thanks

Go with whatever works best for you, makes you feel the best, and suits your lifestyle. In terms of metabolism, there is no difference. People who eat smaller, more frequent meals are NOT speeding up their metabolism, that's a debunked myth.

[Sub_Zero]

"Ketogenic" diet is definitely an interesting subject and worth researching/experimenting, however an I'm still new to this I think for the time being I'll stick "Atkins" and see how far I can push it.
To my surprise, my younger brother managed to push his BF% down to 5% while maintaining majority of LBM while he was on "Atkins" diet. He stats: 6.2ft, 180lb
I would guess that if applying appropriate proportions in terms of P/C/F ratio, one should be able to push BF% even further down simply because liver will be breaking down fat into acids and utilize as an energy. This would also promote an increase in free test levels (especially from saturated fat) - another great benefit. Personally, I would move towards such diet gradually by slowly reducing carbs and increasing fat. The reason for that is that your body would gradually adjust to new source of energy rather than having a shock therapy and burn some LBM before adjusting to to ketonic acids. Hmmm... and the energy levels ? You got me thinking GB, you got me thinking... I need to do some research on this subject and do some tests in order to have an opinion, because right know it's a pure game of logic. Damn... you learn something new every day LOL !!!!

[Jack Mehoff]

So if I'm cutting i should avoid fruits? Is this because of the sugars turning into fats?

[gbrice75]

"Ketogenic" diet is definitely an interesting subject and worth researching/experimenting, however an I'm still new to this I think for the time being I'll stick "Atkins" and see how far I can push it.

I wouldn't use Atkins in conjunction with a weight training regimen. As far as I remember, there is no recommendation for macros, no concern for types of foods eaten (i.e. Atkins lets you have at it with all the nastiest, artery clogging shit if you wish), etc. There are MUCH better keto diets out there designed to compliment weight training. Research CKD (Cyclic Ketogenic Diet) and also look up Dave Palumbo and his approach. Atkins, IMO, wasn't designed with an active lifestyle in mind.

To my surprise, my younger brother managed to push his BF% down to 5% while maintaining majority of LBM while he was on "Atkins" diet. He stats: 6.2ft, 180lb

Impressive. Honestly, I can't imagine he ran a 'cookie cutter' Atkins diet. Most guys have a hard time getting below 8% without losing LBM running a carb rich diet, let alone keto.

I would guess that if applying appropriate proportions in terms of P/C/F ratio, one should be able to push BF% even further down simply because liver will be breaking down fat into acids and utilize as an energy. This would also promote an increase in free test levels (especially from saturated fat) - another great benefit.

This would definitely make a difference. However, I'd still incorporate a carb refeed day, once every 10 days at least. Likely once/week. (the basis of CKD, hence, 'cyclic')

Personally, I would move towards such diet gradually by slowly reducing carbs and increasing fat. The reason for that is that your body would gradually adjust to new source of energy rather than having a shock therapy and burn some LBM before adjusting to to ketonic acids. Hmmm... and the energy levels ?

I don't think it really matters tbh. Our bodies don't need dietary carbohydrates at all, so I wouldn't 'waste' time doing this gradually. Just cut carbs and your body will burn what glycogen stores are left, then if calories are on point and dietary fats are high enough, should settle in to a decent fat/ketone burning state.

You got me thinking GB, you got me thinking... I need to do some research on this subject and do some tests in order to have an opinion, because right know it's a pure game of logic. Damn... you learn something new every day LOL !!!!

Let me know what you wind up deciding on, and how you make out!

So if I'm cutting i should avoid fruits? Is this because of the sugars turning into fats?

No, and no. Excess calories are stored as fat, not just those from sugar. However, due to surges in insulin and other factors, I try to keep them minimal and localized around my workout window in an effort to maximize their efficiency.

[CLiQx]

I was always curious how to properly moderate carb intake... Great read

[gbrice75]

I was always curious how to properly moderate carb intake... Great read

Glad you're finding the post useful, and welcome to the board!

[pjbandit]

How do you account for sugar alcohols in your carb counting?

[gbrice75]

How do you account for sugar alcohols in your carb counting?

I don't... but with that in mind, I try to keep intake minimal.

[Garcia13]

Great read!