Knowledgeable Member
Arginine appears to have genuine GH promoting effects. Unfortunately, I think you have to take at least 5gm per day. Here is a link to an article I posted here a little while ago.Originally Posted by gbrice75
http://forums.steroid.com/rate-your-...rmone-hgh.html
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet !!!
~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~
"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
AR's Diet Pimp! ~HOF~
Btw (Austin), 3g citrulline, 2g arginine about 30 mins before workout today - NOTHING!!! No noticeable difference at all. It's as if my body just ignores everything I put in it that should have some effect - testosterone, supplements, etc.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Interesting. Start increasing with a gram of each. You probably have pretty high NO levels already, and would take more for you to notice.
~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~
"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Senior Member
Your body isn't affected by testosterone?!? I never knew that was possible. I knew you were insulin resistant, but I wasn't aware of that. That sucks man.
Knowledgeable Member
Only read first post but I've been saying this to my friends and family for some time. I'm subscribed, great topic.
Knowledgeable Member
Exactly. Something I worry about as well. I haven't counted the number of supplements I take. I'm sure if I did, I'd have a panic attack - and then need more pills for that too!!!!!
Senior Member
Lmao!exactly. Something i worry about as well. I haven't counted the number of supplements i take. I'm sure if i did, i'd have a panic attack - and then need more pills for that too!!!!!
Knowledgeable Member
Lol, I used to take a ton and a few years ago stopped all but the usual suspects: vit c, vit d, b complex, multi vit, prescription fish oil, added niacin a few months ago, melatonin at night, and recently added Resveratrol. And I think that's a ton and I know I'm at the lower end of the spectrum.
Exactly. Something I worry about as well. I haven't counted the number of supplements I take. I'm sure if I did, I'd have a panic attack - and then need more pills for that too!!!!!
Knowledgeable Member
My list would be tantamount to the length of my dissertation.
Good to see you added Resveratrol. Many people over look that and its benefits.
Senior Member
Dissertation? You have your Ph.D.? May I ask in what field?My list would be tantamount to the length of my dissertation.
Good to see you added Resveratrol. Many people over look that and its benefits.
Knowledgeable Member
PhD & MD. Psych and Neuro.
MBA in Healthcare Admin
Senior Member
That's awesome man. Congratulations.
Knowledgeable Member
I had no idea you had a PhD too. That's it, I'm going back to school so we can have the same academic credentials.
Knowledgeable Member
I kid you not....I considered a JD after my MBA because I enjoyed contract law and negotiations so much in the MBA programs as electives. Then I realized life as a career student wasn't aligning with my clinical goals. Lol
Knowledgeable Member
His background from academics through his career is really impressive. It's just insane. But I'll leave it to MI to share for himself.
Senior Member
No kidding. As important as fitness and physical beauty are (I am sorry, but I am vain) to me, nothing is more important than intellect in my opinion. I am fortunate enough to be well-educated, and I like to make it a friendly competition to obtain more knowledge than someone else. Sadly, my younger brother may have me beat.
Knowledgeable Member
I recently have started quite the cocktail (Thanks Aust!) , Tryptophan, HGW, l_Arginine, Tribulus and ZMA and that works out around 11 tablets a day, but damn, 36 pills is crazy GBrice!
They didn't have any MACA the day I got my stuff but I heard that works really well with HGW??
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Wow. lol, what happened here...
~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~
"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Senior Member
Lmao, yeah we sort of hijacked this thread. Sorry gb.
Knowledgeable Member
Sorry buddy. Probably better for PM. My apologies to the other members.
Respect.
Senior Member
No, I take full responsibility. I will private message members in the future if I have questions not related to the thread topic.
Senior Member
Yes post was more appropriate for PM. However, I enjoyed it immensely.
Anabolic Member
That is a ton of stuff. I couldnt get that down daily myself.
AR's Diet Pimp! ~HOF~
Sounds crazy, right? So many people have claimed TRT has changed their lives, they feel like a new man, etc. I've noticed no changes, neither mental (better mood, confidence, etc) nor physical. I can't say my body has changed as a result, at all.
Thx Doc! Glad to have your input.
Holy derailment!
lol, it's fine guys. Except for the fact I feel like such an underachieving dummy next to you!
lol... it gets easier.
Senior Member
Gb, sorry for my ignorance; but have you ever/plan to use AAS? I don't know much about TRT, but I know the doses are much smaller than recreational doses. The only reason I would think someone would not be affected much by TRT is if that person already had normal/high levels of testosterone, but clearly that is not the case seeing as low testosterone is a prerequisite to TRT. I would assume that if you were to use higher doses (≈500 mg per week) that you would feel some effect, correct?
Knowledgeable Member
It seems that we see this complaint frequently on this forum. It's a common complaint in practice too as some patients who dont feel better with T therapy demonstrate poor compliance. This is mostly problematic in ppl with metabolic syndrome and/or type 2 diabetes (who commonly develop low T levels) as treating low T has been shown to improve common important blood panels in such patients.
An interesting study article I read not too long ago showed that when treating low T levels in patients who suffer from depression, as well as metabolic syndrome and/ diabetes, the typical blood panel improvements are not seen. I don't know if this relates to ppl in your situation but my point is that there are clearly subsets of the population that, for unclear reasons, don't respond similarly to T therapy.
AR's Diet Pimp! ~HOF~
I've run 2 cycles in my history, that's it. I saw moderate success with both, but also lost gains from both. Combination of restricting calories too soon/severely (bad idea!!), and I believe, low T levels being unable to sustain the added gains beyond PCT.
1st cycle: 12 weeks test e, 500mg/week (250mg 2x weekly)
2nd cycle: 10 weeks test prop + tren ace, 50mg each, ED.
Wife found out about these (among some other personal shit) and my life was a shit-show for a while. So, until the day she's ok with it (which may be never), cycling won't be a part of my future.
Yes, I'm certain a higher test dosage would yield more visible results, hope to put it to the test one day, no pun lol!
Gonna look into this now, thx Doc!
I'm not diabetic, prediabetic, or anything close to it - but definitely demonstrate metabolic syndrome. I'm insulin resistant, with fat cells that have maintained sensitivity while muscle cells have become resistant. So, I store fat, VERY efficiently.
Chest & Bi's
Decline Barbell Press
Warmup: 135lbs x 12
Warmup: 185lbs x 10
Work Set: 275lbs x 9 (failed on the 9th rep)
Hammer Strength Incline Press
Warmup: 180lbs x 12
Work Set: 270lbs x 6 (failed on the 6th rep)
Flat Bench Flye
Warmup: 35lbs (each hand) x 12
Work Set: 50lbs x 8 (failed on 8th rep)
Note: Was going to (and usually can) use 60's, but my left shoulder and elbow just couldn't handle the weight, so I had to lower. Probably won't do flye's again until they're both healthy again.
Concentration Curls
Warmup: 35lbs (each hand) x 12
Work Set: 45lbs (each hand) x 9/10 (right/left)
Standing Dumbbell Curls
Work set: 40lbs (each hand) x 10/10
If you're able to recall this study, I'd love to have a look at it. I've suffered from borderline depression for a LONG time, and as I said before, metabolic syndrome, so I'm an excellent 'candidate' to demonstrate this resistance to T therapy.
Knowledgeable Member
This is an article about the study that I found. I'll look for the actual study when I get a chance.
Testosterone May Help Depressed Men
Can you explain more about your insulin resistance (only if you don't mind of course)? How and why it was tested and diagnosed? If you prefer to PM about this that's fine too.
AR's Diet Pimp! ~HOF~
Thanks again for all the links and info, I love this stuff and it'll no doubt keep me busy.
Re: insulin resistance - to be perfectly honest, I've never been tested and it's my own 'self-diagnosis' simply based on (lack of) results in a controlled environment (i.e. training, strict dieting, etc.).
I have an extremely tough time adding lean muscle tissue despite having the necessary precursors in place:
Reason to adapt/grow: (i.e. intense training)
environment for growth: (i.e. caloric surplus, quality proteins/carbs/fats etc.)
Sufficient rest (questionable as to what would constitute 'sufficient', but I suppose it's rather individualistic)
However, I continue to put on bodyfat very easily. What really opened up my eyes to insulin resistance being my issue was one study (which I'll try and find) which had a single sentence that was like an epiphany for me. Paraphrasing:
"Fat cells tend to maintain their sensitivity to insulin even when muscle cells become resistant..."
This was a big 'eureka!' moment for me, because prior to this, I had no logical explanation for why my body wasn't responding favorably to training and eating to grow muscle.
I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this, thanks!
AR's Diet Pimp! ~HOF~
Oh, here's an update:
I started this thread with the idea in mind of LOWERING my supplement intake. Instead, I've increased it!!! Add to the already extensive list:
Acidophilus (@ each meal)
Long Jack (Eurycoma longifolia / tongkat ali / pasak bumi)
Maca (Lepidium meyenii)
Yay GB!!
Knowledgeable Member
In regards to all the posts on NAC:
NAC is actually a pretty amazing supplement which has many health properties. Of note it has 3 specific common medicinal uses (amongst others):
1) It is the antidote to acetaminophen (abbreviated APAP) toxicity. Ingested APAP causes the formation of a toxic metabolite referred to as NAPQI. NAPQI is detoxified by the liver by a process requiring glutathione. Once glutathione is depleted, NAPQI accumulates causing liver disease and potentially death. Why not just take glutathione? It cannot cross from blood into liver cells, so that's why NAC is used. Once NAC is absorbed into the cell, it becomes glutathione.
I take one 600mg NAC for each Tylenol/acetaminophen 500mg that I take, which is not often. This is not based on any studies, articles, or info other than the above and is probably unnecessary with only occasional APAP ingestion, but I do it nonetheless.
2) NAC is used to prevent worsening of kidney disease, in patients with already impaired kidney function, caused by iodinated intravascular radiographic contrast - this is the contrast used in some CT scans, angiograms, angioplasty procedures, etc. NAC actually comes in an IV preparation for this purpose, but to save money many hospitals still use the oral form for this indication, which offers inferior protection. When undergoing an imaging procedure that requires such contrast, NAC is administered prior to the procedure to minimize worsening of kidney function as iodinated IV contrast potentially toxic to the kidneys.
*NAC has not been proven to prevent kidney disease cause by gadolinium-based contrast, which is that used for contrast-enhanced MRIs.
3) NAC comes in a nebulized formulation, known as Mucomyst (10% NAC), which is beneficial in breaking up bronchial secretions. It is used in individuals with emphysema, chronic bronchitis (COPD), pneumonia, and so forth.
In addition to all the above uses, it has recently been shown that NAC has a host of other benefits which is why it is a commonly ingested supplement.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Excellent post, Doc. The conversion to GSH is why I started taking NAC. It's pretty amazing and surprisingly underrated.
~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~
"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Senior Member
Thanks for the post Doc.
Knowledgeable Member
Thanks again for all the links and info, I love this stuff and it'll no doubt keep me busy.
Re: insulin resistance - to be perfectly honest, I've never been tested and it's my own 'self-diagnosis' simply based on (lack of) results in a controlled environment (i.e. training, strict dieting, etc.).
I have an extremely tough time adding lean muscle tissue despite having the necessary precursors in place:
Reason to adapt/grow: (i.e. intense training)
environment for growth: (i.e. caloric surplus, quality proteins/carbs/fats etc.)
Sufficient rest (questionable as to what would constitute 'sufficient', but I suppose it's rather individualistic)
However, I continue to put on bodyfat very easily. What really opened up my eyes to insulin resistance being my issue was one study (which I'll try and find) which had a single sentence that was like an epiphany for me. Paraphrasing:
"Fat cells tend to maintain their sensitivity to insulin even when muscle cells become resistant..."
This was a big 'eureka!' moment for me, because prior to this, I had no logical explanation for why my body wasn't responding favorably to training and eating to grow muscle.
I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this, thanks!
I need to respond in full later but just wondering if you've ever tried a TZD (thiazolidinediones), like Actos or Avandia. They work by increasing insulin sensitivity at the cellular level (fat too I think). IMO they're both terrible meds with bad side effect profiles, but Actos is the lesser of the two evils. Avandia was actually blacklisted by the FDA for the past few years and only recently are they opening distribution again. For the average type 2 diabetic there are better meds so I don't see much use for them given the sides. However, if you do in fact have insulin resistance (and elevated blood sugar levels), taking a minimal dose may be worth a discussion with your doc. The reasons you would need to have elevated blood sugar are many but most importantly bc TZDs will decrease blood sugar and potentially to dangerously low levels. Significant hypoglycemia carries a high death rate (about 25%) in diabetics at least.
One thing I don't quite understand is you're very cut and muscular (in your avi). Are you thinking that it's not proportional to your level of diet and exercise?
Last edited by AnabolicDoc; 06-21-2013 at 10:31 AM.
AR's Diet Pimp! ~HOF~
I haven't taken (or even heard of until your post) eithe Actos or Avandia, but I will definitely do some research now, thanks again. I always appreciate your input and suggestions.
I was probably in my best shape when that pic was taken (nearly 2 years ago), but I'd be lying if I told you I achieved that look without the aid of 'supplements'. Even then, I do feel I should have been carrying more muscle.
You hit it on the head exactly - I don't feel my physique is (anywhere near) proportional to my level of diet and exercise. To put it in perspective, I'm not much more muscular (if at all) now, nearly 2 years later, only fatter (about 14% now, 10ish in the avy). I've barely increased weight on shoulder press (as an example, seeing as shoulders are among my most lagging groups) in over 3 years. I've trained HST, GVT, GBC, and more 'standard' bodybuilding protocols. I don't feel I've ever responded better to one over any other, and said responses were all sub-par IMO.
I haven't trained HIT in years (and when I did years ago, I wasn't training properly - granted) and plan to do so in the fall, but I don't have high hopes tbh. I don't want to be disappointed once again, but we'll see!
Senior Member
Gb, do you ever think that you just reached your natural limit? I know I am having a very difficult time putting on more lean mass (I don't put on fat like you are describing though), but I think the biggest reason is that I am approaching my natural limit in terms of physique. I believe bodybuilding is asymptotic (e.g. the graph f(x) = 1/x + 10 on the domain (0, ∞) ≤ R); so the closer you approach the asymptote, the MUCH slower you increase (the slope decreases). It will take a lot of effort and time to gain little muscle as opposed to early on when it takes much less effort to gain more muscle.
Knowledgeable Member
In English, you're saying that bodybuilding demonstrates diminishing law of returns? I think most ppl would agree with you there.
Senior Member
Lol, yes Doc. Thanks.
AR's Diet Pimp! ~HOF~
I'll tell you man... if *this* is my natural limit, I'm in the wrong sport!!! lol
You do realize you're talking to a man who passed highschool level math with 70's, right?
Agreed BB, I'd say it's fairly common. We've all heard about newb gains, etc. However, what I find interesting is that even when I was a newb, I didn't find myself adding muscle at any appreciable rate. For the most part, I didn't look much more muscular than I do now, it was just all covered with bodyfat. In my case, my muscle size hasn't really increased much at all, in YEARS. My muscles have 'developed' a bit (i.e. muscle 'shape', density, etc.), and I've decreased bodyfat so I look more muscular, but I really haven't truly grown in years. There's gotta be something to that!
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