Estrogen, Prolactin, Progesterone Management + Gynecomastia Prevention & Reversal

[APM]

Great write up! Thank you!

Quick question (or clarification).. When on HRT some of us supplement with DHEA and Pregnenolone. If a new cycle is started using a 19-nor, should the Pregnenolone supplement be discontinued at this time? (Or at least till when you are done with the 19-nor?)

[austinite]

Great write up! Thank you!

Quick question (or clarification).. When on HRT some of us supplement with DHEA and Pregnenolone. If a new cycle is started using a 19-nor, should the Pregnenolone supplement be discontinued at this time? (Or at least till when you are done with the 19-nor?)

You can continue to supplement.

[uvafan4life2]

I just read threw your educational threads aust and i am so grateful i came upon them. thank you (:

[BMUS3]

Awesome awesome article man! I have mild gyno right. I've never used steroids or anything either. Guess I'm just super prone. What did you use to reverse your case? I'm currently doing the tamoxifen (nolvadex) route right now (:

[austinite]

Awesome awesome article man! I have mild gyno right. I've never used steroids or anything either. Guess I'm just super prone. What did you use to reverse your case? I'm currently doing the tamoxifen (nolvadex) route right now (:

Raloxifene.

[isa.alrashid]

Thnx

[Jumanji121]

Austinite im new to the forum and have read some of your stuff and my god the information is absolutely invaluable. I have made a few posts asking for some info as im about to start my first cycle and would very much like to ask a few questions (im sorry if I have posted something like this on another thread) just to have some peace at mind. Is there anyway to contact you or where should I make my post? Again, im still a noob so still getting the feel for this platform, thanks in advance

Cheers

[Lava]

Can I start a test E cycle with minor gyno and reverse it by using arimidex for the first week dosed at .50mg daily?

[Brawny Snickers]

All of your posts in this section have been very informative. Thank you.

[Ryman12]

Awesome information!!!!!!

[Denver42]

Really good write up.....

I need the experts on here to help me out..... I'm 39 and I was informed by an idiot that I believed and of course hooked me up with Super Test 450, basically over 7 months I was taking 450mg 2x a week as instructed until I started having low libido, partial ED and getting worse, could not orgasim for the life of me, and noticed that my normal gains aren't there at all..... Normally if I take to much test I get sore nipples so I know to introduce some Nolvadex.... I had no systems that seemed like it was TOO MUCH Test!

I stopped last week and am currently taking 60mg of Nolva a day going on day 3..... Until I met some great guys on here on another thread that told me I was crazy for that much for that long and my E2 must be super high and my prolactin is through the roof.

Reading the top I see this....know how to fix!!???

I read the Power PCT, and am going to get my blood work done this week.... but I would really be grateful for some thoughts on starting my PCT plan...

this is what a guy that used test for 3.5 years came off it with and got back to normal....

Day 1-20 : 2000iu HCG every other day. (going 7 months I'm thinking 5 days of 2000iu's of HCG?)

Day 1-30 : Nolva 40mg/day (20mg was taken twice per day) ; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)

Day 31-45 : Nolva 40mg/day (20mg was taken twice per day)

I noticed there isn't an AI in this? I'm trying to round up supplies ASAP as I don't want longterm effects from this debacle.....

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I have read this post and thought this is the guru's to ask.

Thanks for any help on what to do....

[Nackel]

Hi,
What happens if you start developing gyno on cycle (for example austinites first steroid cycle)? Do you stop taking the steroids and go onto letrozole? Does pct change at all or is it still the standard 4 week pct? How long do you stay on the letrozole for?

[ChainGang]

Yes? What?

[JaneDoe]

Hi,
What happens if you start developing gyno on cycle (for example austinites first steroid cycle)? Do you stop taking the steroids and go onto letrozole? Does pct change at all or is it still the standard 4 week pct? How long do you stay on the letrozole for?

Just take 40 mg of Nolvadex until the symptoms of gynecomastia disappear..

[Alexdenn05]

So I ran into a guy I've seen periodically at the gym, and started to discuss a cycle. Apparently he was "well adversed, " in cycles and stated the above procedure were a waste of time and should not wait to start before I acquired all the pct's. It hit me when he mentioned about crashing after a cycle how important pct was; anyway, I directed him here.

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[Iron Mind]

Thank you very much for writing this. It's a great read.

I've been reading allot about SERMs, AIs during a cycle and for PCT and it all depends on your bloodwork (as you said in your text!!!)..

But I'm a bit confused though because of all the contradictions on the forum/internet.

So during a cycle you SHOULD use an AI (after you did your bloodwork and E2 is too high) e.g.
- aromasin or arimidex

(hCG use is also possible, but I'll leave that question for an other topic)

and when you use an AI during your cycle and have no gyno, you won't need to use a SERM during your cycle right? Or would I always need a SERM and AI during my cycle if I would be prone to a Estrogen Related Side Effects?

so when you run an AI because E2 is too high and you have no gyno or whatever and E2 get within the normal range again because of the arimidex or aromasin you continue the cycle like you normally would and when the cycle is over you start the PCT.

The PCT would look like this e.g.:
- 1 or 2 SERMs: clomid, nolva
- AI: aromasin
(-hCG)


I'm trying to get everything in my head so it all seems more logical, because there are allot of contradictions about using AI's and SERM's during your cycle, because it would suppress your gains? I have never used AAS before, but it seems to me that preventing gyno, water retention etc. would be better than curing it. Of course this all will depend on my E2 levels before and during my cycle if I would need a AI and/or SERM, right?

Thanks in advance, I would really appreciate it if you could spare some time to help me out here.

[austinite]

^ Adverse interactions between Arimidex and Nolva might change shortly. One of our members (100%) pointed me to a study that proved there are no interactions. I'm still researching further and will update when I know.

AI is to be used from week 1 of your cycle. Not after blood work. Blood work is to verify that your dose is working.

Not sure what you mean by "HCG use is possible". It's necessary.

If you develop gynecomastia, you most certainly need a SERM. Never count on an AI to reverse gynecomastia.

PCT is 2 SERMS, not 1 or 2. Always 2. No hCG during PCT, ever.

Anyone that tells you that an AI or SERM is suppressing gains is nonsense. There isnt a whole lot that can affect gains, and if anything actually does, it's so negligible, you wouldn't even think twice. I run high doses of T3 with ZERO effect on muscle gain.

Hope that answers your concerns.

[Iron Mind]

^ Adverse interactions between Arimidex and Nolva might change shortly. One of our members (100%) pointed me to a study that proved there are no interactions. I'm still researching further and will update when I know.

Oke, great!

AI is to be used from week 1 of your cycle. Not after blood work. Blood work is to verify that your dose is working.

Okay, I'll.

Not sure what you mean by "HCG use is possible". It's necessary.


If you develop gynecomastia, you most certainly need a SERM. Never count on an AI to reverse gynecomastia.

PCT is 2 SERMS, not 1 or 2. Always 2. No hCG during PCT, ever.

Anyone that tells you that an AI or SERM is suppressing gains is nonsense. There isnt a whole lot that can affect gains, and if anything actually does, it's so negligible, you wouldn't even think twice. I run high doses of T3 with ZERO effect on muscle gain.

Hope that answers your concerns.

Thanks allot for your quick answers.

So that would make a cycle look like this.

Cycle for e.g. 12 weeks:
- 1-12 week AAS injectable, oral etc.
- 1-12 week hCG
- 1-12 week AI: aromasin or arimidex? because letro would be too heavy.
- 1 SERM if gyno occurs: nolva

PCT:
- 13-17 week: 2 SERMs: clomid, nolva

I'm curious why there should be no hCG in the PCT is that because of the forum advices to directly start PCT the week after your last injection, so therefore it would be not necessery to use hCG in your PCT, because you used hCG in your last week during your cycle. Is that the reason hCG should not be used in the PCT?

Thanks allot.

I'm not sure yet about all the mg/ED during cycle or to reverse things, so therefore I left them out in my "example cycle".

and what about using proviron as an AI, some say it's use would make a "real" AI abundant and some say that's nonsense. What should I believe?

[austinite]

hCG is suppressive. You don't want it during PCT. Only on cycle.

Proviron is the weakest compound known to man. Good for libido boost only. I don't ever see any possible good use for it.

Please be sure to list your complete stats for any cycle critique. Thanks Iron.

[austinite]

Might want to visit this thread also...

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

[Iron Mind]

Thanks, I already started reading it.

I'm trying to plan my first cycle and I want to get everything right..

[austinite]

- Note: Drug interactions updated 08/16/2013. No adverse interaction between Arimidex & Nolvadex. Thanks to member: 100% for this study.

[teezer33]

There is a really good app on from cvs on android for adverse reactions between medications

[gearhead316]

Awesome write up!! What are your thoughts on the role of Masteron and its use in trying to control estrogen levels?

[austinite]

Awesome write up!! What are your thoughts on the role of Masteron and its use in trying to control estrogen levels?

Not a good idea. Masteron is very mild in the presence of estrogen on cycle, so it should never be considered your primary inhibitor.

[Boobyman]

Hi Austinite,

Would be grateful for your advice on the following:

Im 32 years old male currently weighing 94 KGs, ive lost about 20KG during past few months to get in a better shape. Im pretty much convinced that ive gynachomastia. My estradiol levels are 111pmol/L and my testosterone is 19.7nmol/L.

Do you think my estradiol is high and treating that would reverse my gynechomastia, what is the best option to treat estradiol?

Many thanks

[austinite]

Hi Austinite,

Would be grateful for your advice on the following:

Im 32 years old male currently weighing 94 KGs, ive lost about 20KG during past few months to get in a better shape. Im pretty much convinced that ive gynachomastia. My estradiol levels are 111pmol/L and my testosterone is 19.7nmol/L.

Do you think my estradiol is high and treating that would reverse my gynechomastia, what is the best option to treat estradiol?

Many thanks

please list the ranges for your blood work.

[Boobyman]

please list the ranges for your blood work.

THS 1.2 mU/L (0.4-4.9)
Prolactin 214mU/L (73-407)
Estradiol 111 pmol/L (40-162)
Testosterone 19.7 nmol/L (10-28)
Cortisol 247 nmol/L (101-536)
Sex hormone binding globulin level 36nmol/L (13-71).

Thanks

[austinite]

^ Your blood levels are fine. Actually, they're near perfect. Why do you think you have gynecomastia? Do you feel an actual lump?

[Boobyman]

^ Your blood levels are fine. Actually, they're near perfect. Why do you think you have gynecomastia? Do you feel an actual lump?

Thanks.
I've been overweight since my teenage and always found size of my breasts bigger as compared to my weight. I'm not sure about the lump but when I lie down straight and massage my breast I can feel a thick round disk behind and around my nipple. Also, the dark skin around my nipple is a lot bigger than normally found in men. I'm 6 feet with 35" waist at the moment but size of my breasts is way out of proportion.

Could this be just fat that is stuck?
Or could it be that at some point my hormones got messed around but they corrected themselves except affecting my breasts?

[austinite]

^ Could be just fat, or pubertal gynecomastia. Either way, before treatment, I would make a visit to a doc to verify what it is. Just see your doctor, if they can't help, they will refer you to a specialist.

"Most" of the cases that I've seen online, end up being just fat.

[Boobyman]

^ Could be just fat, or pubertal gynecomastia. Either way, before treatment, I would make a visit to a doc to verify what it is. Just see your doctor, if they can't help, they will refer you to a specialist.

"Most" of the cases that I've seen online, end up being just fat.

Ok, many thanks for your help

[abl197]

Hi I have a question is it true that winstrol during cycle can lower progesterone and also reverse gyno

[abl197]

Hi I have a question is it true that winstrol during cycle can lower progesterone and also reverse gyno

I got this info from another site

WinstrolThe use of Winstrol is also an effective method of controlling progesterone-induced gyno, as it is anti-progestagenic. An effective dose appears to be in the vicinity of 50mg eod (depot) or 30 to 35mg/day (tabs) although this dose may require increasing depending on the doses being employed in the stack.One important point worth mentioning is, although generally the progestins do not aromatise, there is an exception to this rule: Deca, as well as being a progestin also aromatises, only very slightly, but nevertheless, still does to some extent. Although this is not nearly enough to cause the large majority any problems at all, for those extremely sensitive to gyno, this small amount of aromatisation to oestrogen can be enough of an elevation to activate the progesterone. Very few people are likely to suffer this, but we feel it is a point worth mentioning
Link http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/oes...gesterone.aspx

[austinite]

^ Any effect of winstrol on progesterone is negligible and not a solution. Probably the dumbest idea I've ever heard of in my life. Take more steroids for the sole purpose of combating progesterone? I'd like to invite whoever wrote that here. You combat progesterone by controlling E2, period.

[kelkel]

^ Any effect of winstrol on progesterone is negligible and not a solution. Probably the dumbest idea I've ever heard of in my life. Take more steroids for the sole purpose of combating progesterone? I'd like to invite whoever wrote that here. You combat progesterone by controlling E2, period.

I know this guy who moved a stripper in once. Or twice...

[abl197]

I got this info from the below link describe the relationship between winstrol and progesterone

http://www.************.com/forum/an...ntagonist.html

The anabolic steroid stanozolol stimulates the production of prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) and the matrix metalloproteinases collagenase and stromelysin in human skin fibroblasts but not in rheumatoid synovial fibroblasts. The basis for these differential responses was investigated at the levels of DNA synthesis and steroid receptor binding. Stanozolol inhibited fibroblast growth factor (FGF)-stimulated DNA synthesis in both the skin and synovial fibroblasts, showing that both cell types were capable of responding to the compound. Competitive binding assays indicated that stanozolol bound specifically to both the skin and synovial fibroblasts. Binding of stanozolol to both cell types could be partially displaced by progesterone, indicating that stanozolol binds to the progesterone receptor. Immunocytochemical studies confirmed the presence of progesterone receptors on skin and synovial fibroblasts. However, progesterone failed to elicit any response with respect to collagenase production in either cell type. Nortestosterone, dexamethasone and 17 beta-oestradiol had no effect on binding of stanozolol to either cell type. These results indicate that the inhibition of DNA synthesis by stanozolol is elicited through the progesterone receptor. The effects of stanozolol on collagenase and PGE2 production are mediated by a different receptor, present on skin but not synovial fibroblasts, and as yet unidentified.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtually all androgens bind to the progesterone receptor to some degree; similarly progestins (and antiprogestins) bind to the androgen receptor. RU 486 binds to the androgen receptor as an antiandrogen, rendering it useless for bodybuilders. As far as the winstrol article goes, has anyone bothered to actually read the whole study? Presumably we are supposed to believe winstrol has some kind of antiprogestin capability because it blocked FGF stimulated DNA synthesis. The effect on DNA synthesis was measured by thymidine uptake. Less thymidine uptake means less DNA synthesis. Quoting from page 38 of the article, " A significant inhibition of thymidine uptake was seen in response to stanozolol in both cell types. The steroids nortestosterone, oxymetholone, and progesterone itself were also tested for their effect on thymidine uptake to determine whether the effects of stanozolol on DNA synthesis were unique. These other compounds also inhibited DNA synthesis in both cell types" In other words, winstrol has THE SAME effect as progesterone on progesterone receptor mediated DNA synthesis: they both block it. So rather than acting as an antiprogesterone in this study, winstrol, as well as nandrolone and oxymetholone, act in the same manner as progesterone

[austinite]

^ Great, like I said earlier, nonsense...

[bigsiv]

Hats off austinite great write up!

[zeeibi]

thanks for this write up! learnt alot! much appreciated