For those who train in the morning before eating..

[mockery]

gbrice just recommended I try a cab heavy meal before bed ( I'd be using aas tho)....I did fasted workouts when cutting, but itstopped working after, two months u think, I kept going and it cost me muscle.... I'll look at it as a kick start to a cut next time

cutting will lose muscle regardless, even at 1lb a week of body weight you will start losing lbm, using large amounts of aas is the only way to combat this along with having a great prep coach.

biggest problem internet weekend warriors have is they never get big enough before they "cut" so they start small and end up smaller. Cutting properly should have you looking bigger with less scale weight.

Im meeting more bigger guys that only eat when they are hungry, drink when they are thirsty and just train hard, and never go online to Google shit.
People spending to much time second guessing themselves, wanting to try an new diet fad or strength routine every 3 weeks and look piss poor.

[kelkel]

cutting will lose muscle regardless, even at 1lb a week of body weight you will start losing lbm, using large amounts of aas is the only way to combat this along with having a great prep coach. True in many cases

biggest problem internet weekend warriors have is they never get big enough before they "cut" so they start small and end up smaller. Cutting properly should have you looking bigger with less scale weight. Like a bodybuilder in a contest. Lighter but looks much larger.

Im meeting more bigger guys that only eat when they are hungry, drink when they are thirsty and just train hard, and never go online to Google shit.
People spending to much time second guessing themselves, wanting to try an new diet fad or strength routine every 3 weeks and look piss poor.

Basic, fundamental hard training and a healthy diet simply work. Most people just don't train hard enough.

Well said M.

[ickythump]

cutting will lose muscle regardless, even at 1lb a week of body weight you will start losing lbm, using large amounts of aas is the only way to combat this along with having a great prep coach.

biggest problem internet weekend warriors have is they never get big enough before they "cut" so they start small and end up smaller. Cutting properly should have you looking bigger with less scale weight.

Im meeting more bigger guys that only eat when they are hungry, drink when they are thirsty and just train hard, and never go online to Google shit.
People spending to much time second guessing themselves, wanting to try an new diet fad or strength routine every 3 weeks and look piss poor.

that is all very true.... tho I must say I researched mechanisms behind hormonal responses and found studies on intermittent fasting it wasn't following fads, if I give advice I tell people to watch very carefully how they respond to it as there are so many mixed reviews

[DPTUK]

....

[ickythump]

also, I'm starting first aas cycle but I got good fat-less bulking results going two weeks bulk/ two weeks cut, based on a study of hormonal responses to over feeding, some people say it's the best way to bulk as a non aas lifter

[kelkel]

Just saw this thread. People really train in the morning without eating? What's wrong with them?

[gbrice75]

Just saw this thread. People really train in the morning without eating? What's wrong with them?

In my own case, early morning is the only opportunity I have to train. Certainly not my preference, but I have no choice. I've trained both fed and fasted. The problem with eating beforehand is the fact there's simply not enough time for digestion/assimilation to occur, so I really don't reap the benefits of a good am meal. It will blunt muscle breakdown however, and aid in the PWO recovery process.

[mockery]

Just saw this thread. People really train in the morning without eating? What's wrong with them?

I grow just fine with out eating before i work out with early morning training wich is usually 90 minutes. 3 cups of water, 1 shot of cofee and 10g bcaa before during and after training. PWO meal with in 1-2 hours of my work out.

trying to eat then lift 15 minutes later is a bigger issue in my mind.

Food isnt fuel for your body.

[kelkel]

In my own case, early morning is the only opportunity I have to train. Certainly not my preference, but I have no choice. I've trained both fed and fasted. The problem with eating beforehand is the fact there's simply not enough time for digestion/assimilation to occur, so I really don't reap the benefits of a good am meal. It will blunt muscle breakdown however, and aid in the PWO recovery process.

kel it's obv not a building thing, and I tailored it to my body's response, I stoped bebefitting after a bit but before that it was great, next cut I'll lead into it do IF with dated workouts for a month or two then climb into a bulk

I grow just fine with out eating before i work out with early morning training wich is usually 90 minutes. 3 cups of water, 1 shot of cofee and 10g bcaa before during and after training. PWO meal with in 1-2 hours of my work out.

trying to eat then lift 15 minutes later is a bigger issue in my mind.

Food isnt fuel for your body.

How dare you guys take me seriously about anything! Let's not make a Mockery out of this!

[sawyer86]

Every third week i have to train i the morning. Up at 5am training at 6am. Once im up and have my coffee im ok. Protein shake with instant oats soon as i open my eyes.

[ickythump]

kel it's obv not a building thing, and I tailored it to my body's response, I stoped bebefitting after a bit but before that it was great, next cut I'll lead into it do IF with dated workouts for a month or two then climb into a bulk

[DPTUK]

....

[ickythump]

I've been watching gbrice and 405 on the keto, might try that before summer

[mockery]

I've been watching gbrice and 405 on the keto, might try that before summer

what are your goals for using keto?

Each pound of muscle at 454 g is about 22 percent protein, even with proper well structured carb re feeds adding any mass will be slow or non existent compares to a regular balanced diet.

Yes the human body doesn't need carbs to survive but if you wanna get big then better go eat your rice and potatoes.

[ickythump]

what are your goals for using keto?

Each pound of muscle at 454 g is about 22 percent protein, even with proper well structured carb re feeds adding any mass will be slow or non existent compares to a regular balanced diet.

Yes the human body doesn't need carbs to survive but if you wanna get big then better go eat your rice and potatoes.

well it would be to burn body fat of course!! after I get size in!

[gbrice75]

what are your goals for using keto?

Each pound of muscle at 454 g is about 22 percent protein, even with proper well structured carb re feeds adding any mass will be slow or non existent compares to a regular balanced diet.

Yes the human body doesn't need carbs to survive but if you wanna get big then better go eat your rice and potatoes.

I disagree, again. Some people respond better to higher carbs, others are fine without them. I know quite a few guys (not weekend warriors as you imply) who run high fat/low (nearly zero) carb diets year round, and continue to make gains.

[mockery]

I disagree, again. Some people respond better to higher carbs, others are fine without them. I know quite a few guys (not weekend warriors as you imply) who run high fat/low (nearly zero) carb diets year round, and continue to make gains.

Are these the same people that if they take a day off the gym or spend a week at home they lose 15 kilos?

People are very dishonest about drug use and very dishonest about their cheat meals and binge eating.

I know people like you say that dont eat carbs, they are big, but looking back a few years now, i dont think they have got bigger aside from water weight. YOu and i can agree to disagree about the importance of carbs in muscle fibers but i like Mike Mentzers take on the importance of carbs over protein. Im not saying i am right over anyone else and every day we are learning.

The bigger problem with peoples logs on this forum is they yoyo diet and allow themselves to get fat through poor eating then spend all this effort to diet down, rinse and repeat.

Im very much pro fats, i love them, eating fats has made me a healthier person, but working along side world bodybuilding coaches ive opened my eyes to a few things that i use to be ignorant about.

BUt in your defense, frank zane says he only ate carbs every 4 days, a potato with dinner. And look how sexy he was, and still is.

[DontTaseMeBro]

This is a good discussion. I Hope we can get even more input.

For what its worth, I get up at 5:45 and train at 6:30. All I have time (or apatite) for before my workout is a pre-workout energy supplement (been using cellucore c4) with some extra creatine and BCAA's. I have to warm up a good bit, but my energy seems good and I'm able to go pretty intense for 45 min - 1hr. The gym is completely empty at that time other than the occasional person walking on a treadmill.

I do 45 minutes of cardio (running) every other day at the same time with no pre-workout supplement or meal of any kind.

All that having been said, I've considered biting the bullet and switching to afternoon workouts after a couple more months of moderate cutting (being the boss has a few benefits). While I believe fasted cardio is the way to go for fat burning, it seems like it would be best to have some protein on board to build muscle and some carbs to ramp up the intensity if one is trying to build muscle. Am I making this too complicated?