1 Year a Slave, Jomamma007's HRT Exit

[dreadnok89]

Hcg alone can bump you up a couple hundred, if you weren't using that you would be low. Your lh and fh are showing nothing happening at all. If you stopped everything you would probably crash. I could be wrong too joey, but if your FH and LH that low its pointless. You can probably drop the AI too, either your crushing it or not making it all. Estradiol comes in higher too so in actuality your really low. Arimidex is way to strong. I can't see your estrogen going crazy as a slim 24 year old male anyway.

[jomamma007]

lh and fsh levels don't mean much yet as there's till exogenous test in me. I guarantee they'll skyrocket on SERMS.
Whether they hold or not is the question.

[38onTRT]

I agree with this.. Continue with the hCG then immediately start the PCT Clomid/ Nolva. I do think the A-Dex is a bit much and would cut what you're doing now in half, you will probably feel a bit better..

I am interested in where you will be as soon as you drop the Clomid/ Nolva.. When do you plan on getting blood done when you are complete with that?

lh and fsh levels don't mean much yet as there's till exogenous test in me. I guarantee they'll skyrocket on SERMS.
Whether they hold or not is the question.

[jomamma007]

I agree with this.. Continue with the hCG then immediately start the PCT Clomid/ Nolva. I do think the A-Dex is a bit much and would cut what you're doing now in half, you will probably feel a bit better..

I am interested in where you will be as soon as you drop the Clomid/ Nolva.. When do you plan on getting blood done when you are complete with that?

I'll get bloods done after finishing clomid, then again 8 weeks after completion of pct.
I;m feeling pretty good considering I'm only on HCG and my estrogen is in the toilet. Joints hurt and strength is down severely but feeling optimistic mood wise.

[dreadnok89]

But were they always that low Joe

[j2048b]

hcg is amazing for the moods! when im on it with my trt i feel awesome!

gl J007!

[J DIESEL3]

^^^^^^^^ I agree with what j2048b has said!I look back and really wished i would have been on hcg the first year and a half on trt...

[jomamma007]

There is no HRT without hcg .
It should be a staple alongside whichever route of exogenous testosterone one decides to go.
Hopefully now that this industry's blowing up, more physician will begin to prescribe it.

[j2048b]

There is no HRT without hcg . It should be a staple alongside whichever route of exogenous testosterone one decides to go. Hopefully now that this industry's blowing up, more physician will begin to prescribe it.

And of course the prices will skyrocket as test has! Big pharm sucks!

[2Sox]

And of course the prices will skyrocket as test has! Big pharm sucks!

Prices are the same overseas - give or take $23/5000iu vial. And these don't change. And the stuff works.

[j2048b]

Prices are the same overseas - give or take $23/5000iu vial. And these don't change. And the stuff works.

yeah the website ive looked at, might have even gotten it from u, is pretty dang cheap!!

[Low Testosterone]

There is no HRT without hcg .
It should be a staple alongside whichever route of exogenous testosterone one decides to go.
Hopefully now that this industry's blowing up, more physician will begin to prescribe it.

Unfortunately, not all men can use or benefit from HCG. Absolutely, if you are one who benefits it's worth taking. But consider these factors:

If a man has low testosterone but his LH reading is above 10, how much is HCG going to help?
If a man cannot control his estradiol when taking HCG unless he takes 1mg of AI a day, should he take HCG?

Both of the above are common real life scenarios. My point, there are no absolutes in TRT. You see in many threads all over the internet that state if you take X amount of testosterone you MUST take Y amount of anastrozole...or if you weight X amount you will need Y amount of this or that. I simply absolutely NEVER works that way. That's one of the reasons many physicians are so scared of TRT. In many aspects of medicine things are very black and white from one individual to the next. TRT itself is actually very simple medicine, extremely but there are numerous variations from person to person and rarely does anything translate from one man to the next identically.

[2Sox]

Unfortunately, not all men can use or benefit from HCG. Absolutely, if you are one who benefits it's worth taking. But consider these factors:

If a man has low testosterone but his LH reading is above 10, how much is HCG going to help?
If a man cannot control his estradiol when taking HCG unless he takes 1mg of AI a day, should he take HCG?

Both of the above are common real life scenarios. My point, there are no absolutes in TRT. You see in many threads all over the internet that state if you take X amount of testosterone you MUST take Y amount of anastrozole...or if you weight X amount you will need Y amount of this or that. I simply absolutely NEVER works that way. That's one of the reasons many physicians are so scared of TRT. In many aspects of medicine things are very black and white from one individual to the next. TRT itself is actually very simple medicine, extremely but there are numerous variations from person to person and rarely does anything translate from one man to the next identically.

These are very valuable points. And of course, the decision to take hCG lies completely with the individual. From where I stand, because hCG has me feel so "normal", I'd take an AI every day for the rest of my life, if that is what would be necessary. I wouldn't ever consider NOT taking hCG.

[Beethoven]

These are very valuable points. And of course, the decision to take hCG lies completely with the individual. From where I stand, because hCG has me feel so "normal", I'd take an AI every day for the rest of my life, if that is what would be necessary. I wouldn't ever consider NOT taking hCG.

My original trt protocol with previous Dr did not include HCG. Although I didn't have estradiol issues, my testicles did hurt and were atrophied. I do have a problem right now fine tuning my Anastrozole but the HCG is worth it.

[dreadnok89]

Joe, was your E2 out of whack before you started taking the arimidex? You could have 1000 test but keep your e low will really zap you.

[jomamma007]

Joe, was your E2 out of whack before you started taking the arimidex? You could have 1000 test but keep your e low will really zap you.

Well i didn't take an ai on my hrt. I just started one alongside my hcg blast in my recovery process right now.

[jomamma007]

took my last hcg shot today, getting bloods on Tuesday, which will be 25 days since last pin. Time flies.
Feeling pretty good, anxious here and there but not as bad as in the past.

Since last injection on the 1st I've experienced the following.
Hard time sleeping, waking up constantly. Erections have been non existent the last ~10 days. Joint pain. Changes in appetite, from nothing to ravenous and back. Poor energy. Anxiety. Loss of strength.
Good news is that I had a week off school and no girlfriend right now so these issues aren't much of an annoyance.

These can all be explained to keeping my estrogen too low, but I wanted to keep it from elevating during my HCG blast. Knowing that my estrogen was low, the side effects aren't really bothering me as much as they used to if that makes sense. Since I know why I feel the way I do, and that it's temporary it calms my mind.
Even still I feel decent, I believe keeping my mind positive and focused on other things has really helped so far. I'm hoping the SERMS will jump start my hpta more then the hcg did.

Keep in mind I also kicked caffeine a week ago as my adrenals and cortisol, dhea levels are low without supplementation and I want to ensure the highest rate of a successful recovery. This definitely coupled with stopping my injections is contributing to the sides.

Will update Wednesday with bloods.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

GL posting to follow thread

A litttle difference in age 54 yrs young and HCG is night and day in my TRT proticall ? Required !

[Beethoven]

took my last hcg shot today, getting bloods on Tuesday, which will be 25 days since last pin. Time flies.
Feeling pretty good, anxious here and there but not as bad as in the past.

Since last injection on the 1st I've experienced the following.
Hard time sleeping, waking up constantly. Erections have been non existent the last ~10 days. Joint pain. Changes in appetite, from nothing to ravenous and back. Poor energy. Anxiety. Loss of strength.
Good news is that I had a week off school and no girlfriend right now so these issues aren't much of an annoyance.

These can all be explained to keeping my estrogen too low, but I wanted to keep it from elevating during my HCG blast. Knowing that my estrogen was low, the side effects aren't really bothering me as much as they used to if that makes sense. Since I know why I feel the way I do, and that it's temporary it calms my mind.
Even still I feel decent, I believe keeping my mind positive and focused on other things has really helped so far. I'm hoping the SERMS will jump start my hpta more then the hcg did.

Keep in mind I also kicked caffeine a week ago as my adrenals and cortisol, dhea levels are low without supplementation and I want to ensure the highest rate of a successful recovery. This definitely coupled with stopping my injections is contributing to the sides.

Will update Wednesday with bloods.

Hang in there Jo, fight the good fight brother.

[jomamma007]

Just got bloods after last hcg pin,
25 days since last pin
Testosterone, Serum443 348-1197
LH 0.4LOW (1.78.6)mIU
FSH1.2 LOW (1.5-12.4 )mIU/mLSO
Estradiol 10.9(7-42.6)
Not sure if i ahould do another 3 weeks of hcg or start SERMS.

[PJS19]

Jomama. What is your plan if after this restart your levels tank bank down again? Just hop back on serms?

I want to get back on clomid but control shbg and e2 this time.

[jomamma007]

I'm expecting recovery to be honest so I haven't given it much thought.
I'd probably extend the duration of clomid for a few months, then see where I'm at.

[Charlie6]

I could be wrong, but shouldn't your LH be a lot higher since you've been on hcg, which mimicks LH?

[jomamma007]

my boys are just starting to turn back on. It's only been 3 weeks since my last pin.
They'll come up, especially now that I started SERMS today.

[jomamma007]

How long does it usually take to feel clomid and nolva?

[zillagod]

....

[dhickey]

You can take a look at my thread on here. I did:

500IU HCG daily for a few weeks.
25mg clomid ED for a couple weeks
25mg clomid EOD for a couple weeks
25mg clomid 2x weekly for a couple weeks

Testing throughout. I'm not really treating it like a restart. I'm assuming I'll have to stay on low dose HCG or SERM to keep levels reasonably high. The SERM seems to be working, but E2 has been a challenge. If I can't manage it on the SERM, I'll go back to HCG.

[Charlie6]

Update??

[psycho white]

Update??

bump

[jomamma007]

Have some new blood work 2 weeks into SERMS, still pretty soon but I like to know what's going on
4/8/14
Testosterone 408 (348-1197)
LH 12.4 High (1.7-8.6)
FSH 9.1 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol 28.8 (7.6-42.6)
So it seems my testes are responding, although my test is still dam low. Still pretty early as I've only been feeling the SERMS for the last day or so starting to kick in.
Mentally I feel good, not anxious or depressed.
Physically, my strength in the gym is down by about 30%, used to rep the 95lb dumbells on shoulder press and now the 65's are causing my body to shake.
Libido has been non existent until yesterday and today. Starting to kick in slightly as well as waking up with half erections. So I'm thinking the SERMS are starting to do their work, and the next 4 weeks will bring a lot of changes.

I'll probably get blood work in another 2 weeks after I discontinue clomid or I might just wait 4 weeks until I finish up the nolva as well as I'm going to run another 2 weeks of clomid and 4 weeks of nolva regardless of results.

[jomamma007]

I just got bloodwork done 5 weeks into SERMS, finished clomid last week and have 1 weeks supply left of nolva. Not quite sure If I should continue to take Nolva for another month.

5/1/14 Now I slept 3-4 hours and was hungover and am slightly sick so I'm not quite sure how accurate these are.
Testosterone 624 (348-1197)
Estradiol 23.0 (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), 18.8H (1.7-8.6 mIU/mL)
FSH 10.5 (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL)

So do you guys think I should get some more Nolva and clomid and run another month and then get blood work or just come off and see where I land?

[bullshark99]

Your asking for opinions so thats all this is, I would come off and see where the chips eventually fall. I wish you luck as I know this has been quite a journey. i personally would have a "plan B" ready if you do not acheive your desired outcome.
Best of luck J

[Beethoven]

Your asking for opinions so thats all this is, I would come off and see where the chips eventually fall. I wish you luck as I know this has been quite a journey. i personally would have a "plan B" ready if you do not acheive your desired outcome.
Best of luck J

I would agree. Best of luck Jo.

[jomamma007]

Okay guys, I'll come off and re-test in 6 weeks and see where I'm at. If numbers don't hold I'm going to try a longer duration, say 3-6 months of clomid before committing to the needle.

[Beethoven]

Okay guys, I'll come off and re-test in 6 weeks and see where I'm at. If numbers don't hold I'm going to try a longer duration, say 3-6 months of clomid before committing to the needle.

Good luck brother.

[38onTRT]

Looks good, I'd come off too.. Good Luck Bro!

[jomamma007]

New bloods 2.5 weeks since last SERM dosage.

Total test 697
Free test 30 L (35-90)
SHBG 80H (20-55)

Not quite sure where estroges at as they wouldn't let me test it, guessing it might be a little high as SHBG is so elevated, don't know why else it can be so high.

Anything I can do except wait another month to see if anything improves because I feel like death. I'm going to re-introduce ai for the next month to see if it makes a difference. Previous bloods always show that SERMS elevate my T and E quite a bit so it could help. Will get new bloods in a month.

[bass]

looks like your free test is binding to SHBG, if I were you I'd take lots of vitamin D to help with your SHBG to go down and free T come up.

[dreadnok89]

hcg only works if your not primary right?

[jomamma007]

Just wanted to update for anyone following.
Well I started taking my ai again, as I believed since the SERMS were still in my system my estrogen would still be elevated.

WOW, what a difference. It's night and day. I still don't feel 100% but I sure feel better. I plan to continue the ai for 4 weeks post last nolvadex dose, so about another 2 weeks. After that I'll probably get blood work 2 weeks after ceasing the ai, so in a month and get LH,FSH, and estradiol this time.