No More Insurance for TRT

[V-ROID]

Anyone filing any claim forms with Aflac to reimburse TRT charges? I have had Aflac for at least a few years, never made a claim, but every time the rep comes to visit and update plans he always tells me to file any and all claims. I would think Aflac would cover quite a bit. Will find out soon enough and report back. Will dump them for sure if they don't.

[Metalject]

I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't started sooner and while we can argue that it's stupid it has to happen. Thanks to the new health care legislation, insurance companies absolutely have to start cutting some things out where they can. If not, they're done. In my opinion, this is 100% related to the new health care law.

[kelkel]

In my opinion, this is 100% related to the new health care law.

Yep..

[2Sox]

I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't started sooner and while we can argue that it's stupid it has to happen. Thanks to the new health care legislation, insurance companies absolutely have to start cutting some things out where they can. If not, they're done. In my opinion, this is 100% related to the new health care law.

I completely disagree. And I'm surprised you guys are falling for this. With ACA, the insurance companies have 45 million new customers! Crying poverty is complete horse shit. The bylaws of every corporation states that the sole purpose of corporate existence is PROFIT - and they will get it any way they can. Your conclusion is completely unscientific. If ACA wasn't around, what excuse would people have and who would they blame? The truth is staring us in the face. Profit economics, pure and simple.

Turn of Rush Limbaugh and do some independent research.

[Metalject]

I completely disagree. And I'm surprised you guys are falling for this. With ACA, the insurance companies have 45 million new customers! Crying poverty is complete horse shit. The bylaws of every corporation states that the sole purpose of corporate existence is PROFIT - and they will get it any way they can. Your conclusion is completely unscientific. If ACA wasn't around, what excuse would people have and who would they blame? The truth is staring us in the face. Profit economics, pure and simple.

Turn of Rush Limbaugh and do some independent research.

45million new customers? How do you figure? Only 5million have signed up and less than 20% have paid a premium. But regardless of the number, preexisting conditions are covered, which means more money out, which means something's going to get cut somewhere.

[2Sox]

Humana announces today they will no longer cover TRT, this includes doctors visits, labs, medications, etc. Blue Cross Blue Shield soon to follow. It's only a matter of time before all follow suit. TRT is not considered a medical necessity, it is elective. While only elective for those that qualify, it's still considered elective.

I'd still like to see the press release you learned of this from.

[Rusty11]

I'd still like to see the press release you learned of this from.

I searched and searched.....nothing that I could find.
IF this is true and blue cross decides to stop covering my Testim, I'll just get my doc to prescribe test cyp-much cheaper out of pocket. He's already offered it, but my gel has kept me good for 3+ years.

[Low Testosterone]

I'd still like to see the press release you learned of this from.

This information came directly from Humana in a letter sent out to all physicians.

[2Sox]

This information came directly from Humana in a letter sent out to all physicians.

Possible to attach a pdf?

[bullshark99]

My 20+ plus years in the insurance industry agree wholeheartedly with Metalject on this. Common sense dictates that if there are no longer any pre-x conditions, everything covered from the get go, either premiums substantially rise or something gets cut out!
Last I looked it was 5 mil, not 45 mil and out of those I would love to see how many of them were previously uninsurable??
Thank god for the likes of the Rush Limboughs like him or not but someone needs to inform people of "common sense" so they don't fall for the non-sense this President and all his side kicks ( Nancy Pelosi ect) advocate.
Anyone that is upset that TRT is no longer covered better "buckle up" because this is just the beginning ? Next, there gonna make us turn all our trophies in...LOL

[2Sox]

My 20+ plus years in the insurance industry agree wholeheartedly with Metalject on this. Common sense dictates that if there are no longer any pre-x conditions, everything covered from the get go, either premiums substantially rise or something gets cut out!
Last I looked it was 5 mil, not 45 mil and out of those I would love to see how many of them were previously uninsurable??
Thank god for the likes of the Rush Limboughs like him or not but someone needs to inform people of "common sense" so they don't fall for the non-sense this President and all his side kicks ( Nancy Pelosi ect) advocate.
Anyone that is upset that TRT is no longer covered better "buckle up" because this is just the beginning ? Next, there gonna make us turn all our trophies in...LOL

Twenty years or twenty days in the insurance industry - facts are facts. The ACA is law. All uninsured Americans are required to be covered. Five people to date or five million to date. It doesn't matter. There will be 45 million uninsured Americans on the rolls of insurance companies in due course. Fact. And the profits for corporations will be rolling in - are rolling in now. Here are a few recent representative articles that illustrates the FACT that insurance companies will be rolling in $$$ big time - even covering the dreaded pre-existing conditions of hundreds of thousands of people (who could be people close to you - maybe a relative - who deserve to be covered):

Obamacare could be worth more than $90 billion to the insurance industry

Despite Glitches, Obamacare Profit Windfall To Insurers Well Underway - Forbes

And here is an article about Michael Moore who CRITICIZED the ACA for giving insurance companies TOO MUCH profits! Yes, Michael Moore critical of ACA!

Michael Moore: Obamacare sends over $100 billion annually to insurers | PunditFact

Metalject, Bullshark,
Opinions are fine but you ought to clearly state them as such. As it stands, your comments are based on faulty logic, come from previous biases, and can be misleading. This is not useful to anyone. When this forum has been most useful it has been when it dealt in facts. When conclusions based upon individual experience have been discussed, these too have been extremely useful - and often life saving. When there has been conjecture, it has been a waste of time. Of course, this is all my opinion.

Now if you want to continue with your line of reasoning (which is incredibly insensitive) and which I might add has no factual basis as the above articles make eminently clear, maybe we should go back to the insurance system we had just replaced. No insurance for pre-existing conditions so that you could pay a little less for your TRT treatment. What's the difference? Just let a few people die for our comfort. Something to be really proud of. It's disgraceful that a thought like this could even enter a person's mind. Disgusting, actually. Oh. My opinion.

[2Sox]

As interesting as this thread has been, LowT has still not responded to my request that he provide documentation of the statements in his original post of this morning. If there are no facts to substantiate his claims - and I recognize that these facts might exist - this whole thread has been essentially devoted to a rumor.

Not to be tiresome, but IMO if we make a statement, we ought to have something to back it up - merely because it's the respectful thing to do.

[Metalject]

Twenty years or twenty days in the insurance industry - facts are facts. The ACA is law. All uninsured Americans are required to be covered. Five people to date or five million to date. It doesn't matter. There will be 45 million uninsured Americans on the rolls of insurance companies in due course. Fact. And the profits for corporations will be rolling in - are rolling in now. Here are a few recent representative articles that illustrates the FACT that insurance companies will be rolling in $$$ big time - even covering the dreaded pre-existing conditions of hundreds of thousands of people (who could be people close to you - maybe a relative - who deserve to be covered):

Obamacare could be worth more than $90 billion to the insurance industry

Despite Glitches, Obamacare Profit Windfall To Insurers Well Underway - Forbes

And here is an article about Michael Moore who CRITICIZED the ACA for giving insurance companies TOO MUCH profits! Yes, Michael Moore critical of ACA!

Michael Moore: Obamacare sends over $100 billion annually to insurers | PunditFact

Metalject, Bullshark,
Opinions are fine but you ought to clearly state them as such. As it stands, your comments are based on faulty logic, come from previous biases, and can be misleading. This is not useful to anyone. When this forum has been most useful it has been when it dealt in facts. When conclusions based upon individual experience have been discussed, these too have been extremely useful - and often life saving. When there has been conjecture, it has been a waste of time. Of course, this is all my opinion.

Now if you want to continue with your line of reasoning (which is incredibly insensitive) and which I might add has no factual basis as the above articles make eminently clear, maybe we should go back to the insurance system we had just replaced. No insurance for pre-existing conditions so that you could pay a little less for your TRT treatment. What's the difference? Just let a few people die for our comfort. Something to be really proud of. It's disgraceful that a thought like this could even enter a person's mind. Disgusting, actually. Oh. My opinion.

Facts are important, I wouldn't argue against that, but there are still a lot of missing facts on both sides of the argument. For example, 45million covered, that's not a fact until it happens. As of now, the individual mandate is not in effect. This we can all agree on as fact. As for opinion, I will be surprised if 45million who weren't covered are, because that would mean they'd have to force those 45million to signup and pay. Force of that nature works in many places around the world, but the American mindset is different. But again, that is an opinion and time will tell.

As far as my opinions on the topic, I don't listen to Rush or any of the talking heads. My opinion is based simply on what I see and how I perceive it. Again, in my opinion, this is one of the biggest problems in America, people get their opinions from the talking heads they like. It's become a team type thing far more so than let's all look at what is and judge for ourselves. And once again, in my opinion, I find it apathetic. I'm not accusing you (2sox) of apathy....that comment was more of a general comment.

[2Sox]

Facts are important, I wouldn't argue against that, but there are still a lot of missing facts on both sides of the argument. For example, 45million covered, that's not a fact until it happens. As of now, the individual mandate is not in effect. This we can all agree on as fact. As for opinion, I will be surprised if 45million who weren't covered are, because that would mean they'd have to force those 45million to signup and pay. Force of that nature works in many places around the world, but the American mindset is different. But again, that is an opinion and time will tell.

As far as my opinions on the topic, I don't listen to Rush or any of the talking heads. My opinion is based simply on what I see and how I perceive it. Again, in my opinion, this is one of the biggest problems in America, people get their opinions from the talking heads they like. It's become a team type thing far more so than let's all look at what is and judge for ourselves. And once again, in my opinion, I find it apathetic. I'm not accusing you (2sox) of apathy....that comment was more of a general comment.

Thanks for the clarification. You are completely right; we all ought to judge for ourselves and use our critical minds to arrive at our conclusions. Often, it's not easy finding what's true. I've studied propaganda and it's insidious. It always works best on lazy, uninquisitive minds that find it easier to believe the slogans and talking points than to dig for the facts to expose what's true. (I'd imagine most of us have made this mistake sometime in our lives.) Joseph Goebbels was a master of it. I paraphrase his motto, "Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth." I've also seen that these lies can appeal to an evil, dark side of us that is waiting for the encouragement to come out. History bears this out. It happened in Germany in the 1930's, it happened in Rwanda, in Darfur and it can happen anywhere. We've got to be on our toes because it's all to easy to fall for it.

As a side note; Bullshark is right. I do have a great deal of time on my hands; I'm recently retired. Most often it has been a blessing. It's given me more time to spend at the gym and in the outdoors. It's also given me the time to catch up on my reading. I also now have the luxury of learning a great deal more online and on this forum and writing these forum posts - probably too lengthy, at times - and doing the research for them. And I can now devote more time to my seasonal sideline business which keeps me very busy all summer.

[APIs]

Now if you want to continue with your line of reasoning (which is incredibly insensitive) and which I might add has no factual basis as the above articles make eminently clear, maybe we should go back to the insurance system we had just replaced. No insurance for pre-existing conditions so that you could pay a little less for your TRT treatment. What's the difference? Just let a few people die for our comfort. Something to be really proud of. It's disgraceful that a thought like this could even enter a person's mind. Disgusting, actually. Oh. My opinion.

Nothing against 2Sox, but proponents of the new system always seem to forget one thing. Who's actually paying for a large part of this new coverage? As a small business owner, I can tell you without question it's not the general public. I am along with all the other small business entities in this country. I dont need to quote an article or provide some link either, as I actually write the checks. My business health coverage increased by 24% upon renewal this past December. If that weren't enough, the plan we originally had was then dropped and replaced with one that is one-tier lower in quality, most co-pays were doubled and our yearly deductible was increased by $300 for each individual on the plan. Not to mention, out-patient surgical services now have a $1,000.00 deductible where none existed before. Now is this progressive and/or fair? I guess that depends on how far left someone leans. I'm not going to argue on pre-existing conditions etc., but I'll always argue that no-one has the right to take our hard-earned money to benefit someone down the street who more than likely has made bad decisions in his or her life.

[2Sox]

Nothing against 2Sox, but proponents of the new system always seem to forget one thing. Who's actually paying for a large part of this new coverage? As a small business owner, I can tell you without question it's not the general public. I am along with all the other small business entities in this country. I dont need to quote an article or provide some link either, as I actually write the checks. My business health coverage increased by 24% upon renewal this past December. If that weren't enough, the plan we originally had was then dropped and replaced with one that is one-tier lower in quality, most co-pays were doubled and our yearly deductible was increased by $300 for each individual on the plan. Not to mention, out-patient surgical services now have a $1,000.00 deductible where none existed before. Now is this progressive and/or fair? I guess that depends on how far left someone leans. I'm not going to argue on pre-existing conditions etc., but I'll always argue that no-one has the right to take our hard-earned money to benefit someone down the street who more than likely has made bad decisions in his or her life.

API,

I'm with you on most of what you say. But let's fix this by having the insurance companies pick up the tab, not guys like you or people who can't even afford to pay their rents because of poverty wages. All we do is mandate less profits for them. (Ha! Maybe your grandchildren might get to see this.) Bottom line is now everyone has insurance and the vast majority of people are better off. My view is that we should have a universal single payer system in place just like the VA. But that's for another time... Maybe sooner that we may think.

Something else. The champions of profit economics want to pit people against each other, so that we lose sight of the main thing. Is the profit motive and power of the corporations that wield too much power. Until there is no more of "profits over people" we've got to keep our eye on the ball.

[APIs]

API,

I'm with you on most of what you say. But let's fix this by having the insurance companies pick up the tab, not guys like you or people who can't even afford to pay their rents because of poverty wages. All we do is mandate less profits for them. (Ha! Maybe your grandchildren might get to see this.) Bottom line is now everyone has insurance and the vast majority of people are better off. My view is that we should have a universal single payer system in place just like the VA. But that's for another time... Maybe sooner that we may think.

Something else. The champions of profit economics want to pit people against each other, so that we lose sight of the main thing. Is the profit motive and power of the corporations that wield too much power. Until there is no more of "profits over people" we've got to keep our eye on the ball.

Sorry, but your basic logic here is both skewed & self-serving. In a free market economy business should never be overly responsible to pay for any government sponsored social program. This core value of having small-government is what built this country economically. Argue all you want, but the concept of being rewarded for one's hard work without being overly taxed are what built this great country after WWII. It's also very naive & short sighted to say the Insurance industry should pay for this considering the lobbying power they have in Washington. That was never going to happen anyway. Regardless of the social agenda, in the end, no-one has the right to tell me or any business owner what we should do with our profits. As I recently heard, it seems that ultra-liberals are always willing to give you the shirt off another man's back...

[lovbyts]

Twenty years or twenty days in the insurance industry - facts are facts. The ACA is law. All uninsured Americans are required to be covered. Five people to date or five million to date. It doesn't matter. There will be 45 million uninsured Americans on the rolls of insurance companies in due course. Fact. And the profits for corporations will be rolling in - are rolling in now. Here are a few recent representative articles that illustrates the FACT that insurance companies will be rolling in $$$ big time - even covering the dreaded pre-existing conditions of hundreds of thousands of people (who could be people close to you - maybe a relative - who deserve to be covered):

Obamacare could be worth more than $90 billion to the insurance industry

Despite Glitches, Obamacare Profit Windfall To Insurers Well Underway - Forbes

And here is an article about Michael Moore who CRITICIZED the ACA for giving insurance companies TOO MUCH profits! Yes, Michael Moore critical of ACA!

Michael Moore: Obamacare sends over $100 billion annually to insurers | PunditFact

Metalject, Bullshark,
Opinions are fine but you ought to clearly state them as such. As it stands, your comments are based on faulty logic, come from previous biases, and can be misleading. This is not useful to anyone. When this forum has been most useful it has been when it dealt in facts. When conclusions based upon individual experience have been discussed, these too have been extremely useful - and often life saving. When there has been conjecture, it has been a waste of time. Of course, this is all my opinion.

Now if you want to continue with your line of reasoning (which is incredibly insensitive) and which I might add has no factual basis as the above articles make eminently clear, maybe we should go back to the insurance system we had just replaced. No insurance for pre-existing conditions so that you could pay a little less for your TRT treatment. What's the difference? Just let a few people die for our comfort. Something to be really proud of. It's disgraceful that a thought like this could even enter a person's mind. Disgusting, actually. Oh. My opinion.

And they have spent more on advertising and Obamacare setup to pay for insurance for every person who was not insured for at least 10 years not counting future spending. Typical government mentality, spend 10x more than you will make.

So, if they (government) decided you had to turn over your 1st born to them so they can use them for xyz you would just be OK with that also or compliant? Just because they have made it law does not mean it's right and that we the people should just accept it.

It's turning into everything the conspiracy theorist said it would 5 years ago. The main purpose is to fail so the government will force everyone to go to a single payer plan. Just wait and see. More and more news and talk shows are starting to report this probability. You may so no it wont but I bet 5 years ago you said it would not be the mess it is now but you are still in denial.

[Beethoven]

And they have spent more on advertising and Obamacare setup to pay for insurance for every person who was not insured for at least 10 years not counting future spending. Typical government mentality, spend 10x more than you will make.

So, if they (government) decided you had to turn over your 1st born to them so they can use them for xyz you would just be OK with that also or compliant? Just because they have made it law does not mean it's right and that we the people should just accept it.

It's turning into everything the conspiracy theorist said it would 5 years ago. The main purpose is to fail so the government will force everyone to go to a single payer plan. Just wait and see. More and more news and talk shows are starting to report this probability. You may so no it wont but I bet 5 years ago you said it would not be the mess it is now but you are still in denial.

That is the end game, single payer. The government wants to take over 1/6 of the nations economy for what, because they care for us so much? No. They see insurance and their profits and see a whole lot of money for them, cutting out the middle man of course. (Insurance). Only after they have screwed it up and the people are really outraged, then riding in on their white horse will be government to take it over. And in comes a pale horse............

[kelkel]

That is the end game, single payer. The government wants to take over 1/6 of the nations economy for what, because they care for us so much? No. They see insurance and their profits and see a whole lot of money for them, cutting out the middle man of course. (Insurance). Only after they have screwed it up and the people are really outraged, then riding in on their white horse will be government to take it over. And in comes a pale horse............

This horse?

Pale Rider And Hell followed with him YouTube - YouTube

[GFA]

Insurance is the reason scripts are so expensive to begin eith. Think androgel will be $350 a bottle after insurance stops paying for it? Nope. It will drop down to what people pay for otc stuff now if they want to continue to sell it.

Look at zertex or claritin as examples.

Anyway with goodrx, $42 for 10ml/200mg ml is only $2 a week for testosterone. I spend more multivitamins.

[bullshark99]

I didn't realize you were appointed in charge of this forum 2sox, clearly you have too much time on your hands. Oh and your right, if someone put it in print, it must be true, please...

[2Sox]

I didn't realize you were appointed in charge of this forum 2sox, clearly you have too much time on your hands. Oh and your right, if someone put it in print, it must be true, please...

Isn't it interesting that when a person has nothing to defend their position with, they resort to personal attacks?

Anyway, I respect the right to your opinion.

[kelkel]

Easy guys. Please.

[2Sox]

Easy guys. Please.

Everything's good, Kel.

[hawk14dl]

I just need to know, is low t going to continue being 199 a month? Won't affect me if so

[Beethoven]

This is not about insurance. If you are mandated to cover EVERYONE regardless of pre existing or not, or group or not, it's NOT insurance, it's forced socialized medicine. THAT IMHO IS the end game. Fact, this legislation was NOT bi partisan. Fact, there have only been about 5 million people sign up. Fact, they keep postponing the individual mandate because no one is signing up de spite all the star studded psa's. Fact, no one else's insurance premiums have dropped at all, much less the $2500 that was promised. (Unless you're subsidized). Fact, almost every politician involved in this fiasco is either out of office or distancing him or herself from this legislation. A previous post said it well, if you are overweight and have ANY medical issues arise from that, you will be FORCED to lose weight or pay extra. If your medical condition does not have a strong lobby or voting block, they are not going to care. Think not? Abortion and birth control are being FORCED on the Catholic entities that offer insurance. That is fact. Birth control and abortion have a more far reaching lobby than trt. It is what it is. HIV patients will be afforded trt where hypo gonadal males aren't? Think about that lobby for a second. I hate politics........

[sfgiantsfan55]

and just how can one purchase stock for lowtestosterone.com ?

[dreadnok89]

I'm a dope. Explain to me what does obamacare have to do with private insurance companies? This slime balls have been trying for years to get out of this. Now why is it that a transexual can get testosterone easier than a male that needs the hormone

[Metalject]

I'm a dope. Explain to me what does obamacare have to do with private insurance companies? This slime balls have been trying for years to get out of this. Now why is it that a transexual can get testosterone easier than a male that needs the hormone

Simple, because society has become so backassward that such women are considered to be trapped in a condition that demands medical attention. They have a condition that they did not choose (being trapped in a woman's body), that is the mindset. As for a man with low test, suck it up. Why do you need more testosterone? Why are you so barbaric? That's the mindset.

[38onTRT]

It is what it is, we are all in this together.. Ranting and raving about it here changes nothing. If Testosterone prices skyrocket, then either pay the high prices, get it on the black market or learn to make it yourself. A script form the Doc costs $0.

Why all the arguing and trying to prove yourself right? Come on fellas, lets learn something and/ or teach people something in lieu of arguing..

[APIs]

Why all the arguing and trying to prove yourself right? Come on fellas, lets learn something and/ or teach people something in lieu of arguing..

x2. He's right guys. We should all stick to the following topic(s); TRT, reversing testicular shrinkage & keeping our d*cks hard (arguably most important)...

[2Sox]

x2. stick to the following topic(s); TRT, reversing testicular shrinkage & keeping our d*cks hard (arguably most important)...

Great to focus on.

[Beethoven]

x2. He's right guys. We should all stick to the following topic(s); TRT, reversing testicular shrinkage & keeping our d*cks hard (arguably most important)...

I agree with both metalject and API. This discussion sometimes has to take place because under the guise of fairness and what not, WE the common joe who WORK for our living and don't live of the public dime pay for. Yes pay for. Profit is NOT an evil thing. Does anyone here work for free? The biggest people in this country that always put down profits happen to be among the richest. Go figure. The reason THIS country is or at least was the world superpower was not socialist principles. It was our open and free economy. Workers are not slaves and are always free to quit their job and move on. A business owner does jot OWE the public anything. That is why they pay taxes, and in turn their employees pay taxes, the goods they purchase in doing business is taxed, the product they produce is taxed. Everyone is free to do what they want with their own money. The problem as it relates to trt is that we are not an important voting block because, as you see here, we are made up of different sorts. Yet we wonder why a transgender person can get test and we don't? Voting block and lobby. This type of socialist behavior is akin to this: your insurance now doesn't cover your trt, just go knock on your neighbors door and get him to pay for it. This is a joke, 45 million people are NOT covered by the ACA. Hence the small enrollment numbers and all the waivers given out. Not to mention the MANDATE not being enforced. If we want to fix this thing, we as a group have to unite among our common ground, trt, and recognize that this isn't going to get any better by itself. These are not petty differences, it's our health and Washington doesn't give a damn.

[2Sox]

Why all the arguing and trying to prove yourself right? Come on fellas, lets learn something and/ or teach people something in lieu of arguing..

38,
I really don't see this as arguing at all. I think it would be very unfortunate to interpret every disagreement here as an argument. I love this forum and although we may not all agree on everything, I respect every person who sincerely contributes his thoughts and ideas here for the benefit of the members. I feel it's so important to encourage every exchange of views that we can on varying subjects. And I think the recent discussion/debate accomplished some of that. I know I learned a lot. I hope others learned from me.

[Metalject]

38,
I really don't see this as arguing at all. I think it would be very unfortunate to interpret every disagreement here as an argument. I love this forum and although we may not all agree on everything, I respect every person who sincerely contributes his thoughts and ideas here for the benefit of the members. I feel it's so important to encourage every exchange of views that we can on varying subjects. And I think the recent discussion/debate accomplished some of that. I know I learned a lot. I hope others learned from me.

Agreed. I don't see disagreements as arguments. If anything, I appreciate when people can talk back and forth with me when we don't agree. If we all agree and pat each other on the back, generally that is a fake and hollow conversation.

[kelkel]

Personally I think it's been an outstanding thread full of diverse, educated opinions by respected members. It opens our eyes to the perspectives of others, which is a good thing and something that helps make this forum both fun and educational.

Now, where's Hoggage with a bikini pic......

[hawk14dl]

Who needs a bikini pic when we have your avi Kel?

[bullshark99]

Well thats refreashing!! I see some members get it... A single payer system LOL, just what this nation needs, bigger government and more interference! Wouldnt the joke or irony be on everyone who wants this when the day comes and the government chooses who receives treatment based on there silly little tables. Oh, sorry your 52, thats too old to receive a kidney transplant, needs to go to the 25yr old. Doesnt matter that you were a well respected person in the community who paid there taxes for decades, kidney is going to the unemployed drug user with 2 felonies because he's younger.
A bit of an exggeration, but might not be so far fetched when you take a good look at some of the existing government run programs. Alot of talk above on how corporate profits are so "evil" the root of all the countries problems. Last i looked our Jails are full of politicians, I reside in the great state of illinois, cant remember the last time we had a governor that didnt end up in jail. Politicians clearly have their own agenda's in many cases, cant imagine putting our healthcare in their hands?

[Beethoven]

Well thats refreashing!! I see some members get it... A single payer system LOL, just what this nation needs, bigger government and more interference! Wouldnt the joke or irony be on everyone who wants this when the day comes and the government chooses who receives treatment based on there silly little tables. Oh, sorry your 52, thats too old to receive a kidney transplant, needs to go to the 25yr old. Doesnt matter that you were a well respected person in the community who paid there taxes for decades, kidney is going to the unemployed drug user with 2 felonies because he's younger.
A bit of an exggeration, but might not be so far fetched when you take a good look at some of the existing government run programs. Alot of talk above on how corporate profits are so "evil" the root of all the countries problems. Last i looked our Jails are full of politicians, I reside in the great state of illinois, cant remember the last time we had a governor that didnt end up in jail. Politicians clearly have their own agenda's in many cases, cant imagine putting our healthcare in their hands?

Yes, I still remember Blago. Lol. But you are right, rationing will become part of the decision making process. If you're old, retired and don't produce, meaning work and pay taxes, you will be put behind a younger citizen who is. And if you're terminal, forget everything else and take a pill. A government big enough to give what you want is big enough to take it all from you.