HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
OK. So what you're saying is that 2 wrongs make a right? What are they, children? "He hit me first?" - so all bets are off? They still have a responsibility to uphold the law and that includes themselves. There is NO DOUBT this guy was resisting. Shouldn't result in death. His death was the result of poor judgement from cops who did not utilize their training properly.Originally Posted by zempey
I get what you're saying. It just doesn't make it right. Sorry. Gotta disagree on this one brother.
Last edited by austinite; 07-20-2014 at 07:51 AM.
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"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Even if the guy was so unhealthy that he would have died on his own 10 minutes later. He deserves to live those 10 minutes. No one should take that away in this scenario.
"Oh he was a sick man anyway, who cares. Probably would have died anyway. He ate like shit and didnt work out, he deserves to die".
That's what you sound like, Doc. Sometimes you have to hear yourself to see how wild and outrageous you sound.
Still Love ya either way brother.
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"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Anabolic Member
It definately isn't right, they should have used better judgement, but that usually doesn't happen in cases like this. It is almost impossible to train for these situations since they are all different, so many variables to deal with. I feel the death was an unfortunate outcome that was a fluke, under normal circumstances this would not have ended the same way. There was no way the cops would have ever thought what they were doing would kill the guy, there was no intent to kill.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
I ruffled all your feathers, suckers.
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"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Man. I couldn't agree more that this is a rare occasion. But my point is that they didn't break his arm, both legs and ribs. He was killed. Whether you care or not, it's still a life. Rare or not it should never go unpunished.
Training is very simple in this scenario. "Don't choke anyone". That's all they had to remember.
Intent is a loose term and one could say it's the complete disregard to the law. They may not have known the outcome, but they knew that breaking the law comes with poor results. How drastic these results are will vary. In this case, it was fatal. They must be punished. They should not walk.
No way of knowing can be said about anything. When cops in LA beat the crap out of a drunk man laying in the street helpless, i don't think they intended to kill him. But they did, and I think they should be killed as well.
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"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Pissing Excellence!
Quack
Anabolic Member
Why are there cops anyway? Do they really prevent crimes? No. Cops arrive after crimes are committed. You could say they potentially prevent crimes by putting the 'bad guys' in jail.
Nope. Actual criminals do not fear police. If they did, they wouldn't commit crimes. Law enforcement are given 'power' to keep people in fear. People in fear are easier to CONTROL.
Just one of MANY jokes about this government.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
Who's going to investigate the murder of a family member of urs if there's no LE
LE = law enforcement..... Not prevention
Knowledgeable Member
They are needed to collect revenue of course. Nothing has changed in 100s of years. They have always been tax collectors and no that is not the IRS job, police enforce it by arresting you.
Anabolic Member
Sadly, one of my family members would be dead. However, there is no justice. After a lengthy trial paid for by tax dollars, most likely he would stew in prison. More tax dollars and that's FAR from justice. Even if they give him the death penalty, he will sit in jail, tax dollars and then finally, peacefully die.
Whereas, my family member, was most likely brutally and unjustifiably killed.
Its my family, shouldn't I choose the justice? I don't need Big Brother telling me what's right and wrong.
Anabolic Member
Bingo. It brings me some peace and a slight ray of hope when I see someone that gets it.
Productive Member
For those saying its a freak accident and underlying conditions caused the death etc.... if they werent LE, would you feel they deserve assault charges or murder charges? Manslaughter? Nothing at all? Surely if they werent wearing badges this type of attack would be unacceptable. ...
>good luck<
"He who can take advice is sometimes superior to those who give it"
Senior Member
Hmm. Good way to look at it. If they had no badges/ they would have no reason or right to go near him.
I'd like to see the unedited video before passing that judgement
What if it was one le agent using pain compliance on his right arm to put him into compliance with lawful direction being given. And he still died. I think that people would still be saying he used excess force? Time will tell the outcome.
I certainly don't think that every potential criminal should be left alone as soon as they flail the arms and beg to be left alone.
Oh.. He says he's cool and wants us to leave...
Pack it in guys he says he's cool....
I'm certain he will be missed . A tragedy that has the ability to teach if we let it.
Knowledgeable Member
Nope, didn't say he deserved it. You would not hear those comments from my lips. If you inferred it, ok, you inferred it, but that was neither the intent nor what was implied. I simply agreed that his physical condition didn't help. Hell, my own sister is 5'3, 245 lbs, 45% body fat. Disgusting - and she teaches ****ing nutrition to high school students (don't even get me started on that irony.....but I digress). I certainly don't condone her physical condition and would be the first to argue (as many here would so lets not be hypocrites) that she's not helping, only hurting herself. No if she suffered a catastrophic health event, would my comments that her physical condition imply she deserves what she gets. Seriously? Clearly not. That's a little over reaching don't you think.
Again, we saw a 2 minute video. For all we know, he had a history of seizures, prior cardiovascular events, or any array of medical conditions (all very possible) that where a ticking time bomb. I hate to see anyone lose their life, more so in a scenario like this. I'm pretty sure at least one of the officers on the scene was disturbed by how the events transpired.
I've stood by the bedside of many people during their last seconds of life (and held my limp daughter's body when she passed away), death isn't pleasant no matter how many times it is witnessed.
Last edited by MuscleInk; 07-20-2014 at 12:22 PM.
Senior Member
Yes. Let's get rid of cops, which would involve "getting rid" of the court system and prisons. Yup! Sounds like utopia to me!? Enjoy yourselves.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Agree. No police is a poor idea.
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"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Anabolic Member
Yeah, prisons are so very helpful. They rehabilitate all those who enter. Then the rehabilitated return to society and never commit a crime again.
You may enjoy paying tax dollars to house these people, but I don't. Thankfully, I was born with common sense.
Last edited by Black; 07-20-2014 at 08:57 PM.
Anabolic Member
Who the hell said anything about 'getting rid' of the court system, cops or prisons?
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
I don't think anyone did.
~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~
"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Senior Member
Easy does it. That's what I inferred. Don't want any arguments. Moving on...
Last edited by Rusty11; 07-20-2014 at 09:13 PM.
Senior Member
Deep Breath Everyone... it appears he actually died of a heart attack.... an hour later....
A man who died after a New York City police officer took him to the ground in a chokehold appeared to have little damage to his neck and trachea, according to preliminary autopsy results, a law enforcement source said, but that may not be enough to keep him from being disciplined or even facing criminal charges.
Eric Garner, who was 6-foot-3 and roughly 350 pounds, died Thursday after police struggled to arrest him for allegedly selling loose cigarettes on Staten Island, according to the NYPD. Police said he appeared to suffer a heart attack.
Officer Daniel Pantaleo, an 8-year veteran who was seen in a video that has sparked outrage putting Garner in a chokehold, has been placed on "modified assignment," meaning he was stripped of his badge and gun, pending the outcome of the dual probes by the district attorney and Internal Affairs.
Police Commissioner Bill Bratton had announced Friday that the cop and his partner were on "desk duty," but they still had their guns and shields.
A chokehold is a violation of NYPD police, regardless of whether the move causes any damage, but beyond that, prosecutors and police investigators will be looking at whether it caused or contributed to Garner's death about an hour after he was taken into custody.
Last edited by trikydik; 07-20-2014 at 09:24 PM.
Knowledgeable Member
Oh and there is NO way the coroner would falsify information to help the cops, right?
Yeah it was not the rat poison he injected or the electrical shock from 220v or the bullet through the heart or the severed head but in fact he died from lung cancer.
I have been on the fence on how it should be treated but I'm not gullible enough to believe he died from something unrelated to his injuries.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Lmao. Tryky, stop believing everything you hear on the news.
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"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
Its not like the guy was swinging at them. Hell he was polite as hell. Please just do not handle me? Seems to me the response should have been ok put you hands behind you back you are being taken into custody, not a choke hold from behind. Just saying. To me for the guy to be dead after displaying no signs of aggression is ridiculous. Equal force a believe is a term used in Law enforcement, how the **** is that equal force?
AR's Scrapple Lover
Really????? The guy had a choke held on him for about 20 secs... choke does not have to be properly applied to cause major damage...In fact that's when most damage occur ... I'm sure the Le was gently squeezing too.:rolleyes
Bein asthmatic didn't help the situation out either..then of course the knee on back position made it harder to breath
Shame that had to happen
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
Push comes to shove your right, ultimately it is sad that it occurred, but I do not think it had to happen.
Knowledgeable Elite ~ Respected Female Leader ~
How would members suggest to take down a 6' 4" 350 lb? Pepper spray? taser?
This guy is not the role model of health.
He could have chosen to be handcuffed while standing.
No one expected this outcome.
I dont tend to have run-ins with police.and I have a few guidelines for myself.
1. Police don't like to be approached / not in control of situation
2. Some demand more respect then they offer
3. Police are in a position of power. (They have a badge)
4. If i resist arrest, i just make the situation worst for yourself.
5. Seems a disagreement with a police officer will escalate to argument and then to assisting arrest in a short matter of time. (Policemen don't debate)
Welcome to add to the list. LoL
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
I swear if I hear one more comment about his state of health I'm going to lose it. Are you FOOLS suggesting that had he been a healthy man, this would not have happened and/or would have been just?
Are you people losing brain cells at a rapid rate or just pretending to be silly?
What a DUMB, DUMB argument. Let's discuss brain health, because several of you have some serious complications.
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"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
"AR's Official Turkey Bacon Expert"
the police are suppose to help maintain order but there not there to enforce the law by any means if you happen to commute a minor crime you should not be afraid of getting attacked you would think that a man selling loose cigarets would be something you'd pay no mind to or something you would get some kind of ticket for and shooed away not tackling you and arresting you what happen to using discretion when enforcing the law not all laws are even worth enforcing look at what this is going to cost the city the family even if he didn't die youd spend 1,000 and 1,000 of dollars prosecuting a man over an 8 dollar pack of smokes
Knowledgeable Member
Not to mention that the man's health is simply not the issue at hand here. That is totally off topic. This is about whether or not the actions of the authority figures were (are) justified for this incident, and ultimately any other scenario which may play out similarly, and rest assured it will. Would any of the healthy members of this forum feel as if "justice" had been dealt out fairly and in accordance with due process had they or a member of their family found themselves in a similar situation? BTW, it isn't LE's responsibility to meter out justice. IMHO, these "officers" were in no danger, physical or otherwise. THEY decided to place their hands on him...based on the 2:38 min video. Just watch the officer look at the ground when the man is trying to explain himself...it was obvious (to me anyway) that he was having an "oh crap" moment. They new they'd made the wrong stand on the wrong hill. It scares the shit out of me to see the people with the lack of judgement and common sense we're putting out there with a badge and a gun to "protect" us. My $0.02
AR's Scrapple Lover
I'm not sure if it was a misinterpretation. .or maybe wrong choice of words by me lol...no it definitely did not have to happen...sad that it did though
Yeh think wrong choice of words by me lol
Knowledgeable Elite ~ Respected Female Leader ~
You have an OTC stack for this.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Very trueYou have an OTC stack for this.
~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~
"It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel
Productive Member
The quality of people have gone down. Most people with half a brain are not going to take a job paying 50k a year while risking your life. Especially in NY when it takes about a 150k combined income to live an ok life aka not in the ghetto.
The other day I was in the park with my dog who is registered as a service dog and the park rangers called the police. I was passively arguing with them stating my dog by law can be any where I want and showed his tags that she is a service dog. Then I thoughtI have a German Shepherd and you know what I have seen enough cop shooting dog and people videos over nothing I am going to leave.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
Wow, you guys (and girl) are all stirred up here. Easy on the caffeine!
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Knowledgeable Elite ~ Respected Female Leader ~
I wouldn't mind getting questioned, handled, hand cuffed, taken (into custody) by a good looking single police officer......better then some dates....lets keep a perspective here....just saying.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
I think he meant austinite when he said "girl" :-p
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
Damn.
Negative.
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HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
For some reason this came to mind....
Old KQRS Commercial - YouTube
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