Challenging the police

[Armykid93]

'If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about' is a classic line used in the usurpation of civil liberties. In fact, this is a false choice, it's not that you have anything to worry about necessarily, it's that the government need be restrained because hundreds of years of human history has proven that government will always overstep its bounds and abuse the powers given to it. This is also the reason citizens should never just acquiesce to the requests of police officers if they are not legally obligated in that particular situation to do so. With regards to the 1033 program of departments receiving military hardware, in particular small departments, I completely agree with them not having such equipment. Those departments frequently cannot afford the necessary training that is required to use that equipment properly and safely, and they increasingly feel the need to use heavy handed tactics for drug raids on non-violent offenders, which is wrong. One particularly troubling idea to me, is that ex-military should go into law enforcement. The military and law enforcement are two drastically different functions, a soldiers job is to identify, close with, and kill the enemy. A law enforcement officers job is to preserve life and enforce the law of the land. The police do need to be reigned in, with particular reforms aimed at the force continuum and an emphasis on community policing. The culture of militarization in the police force has the unintended consequence of police acting like an occupying force, viewing citizens instead as all enemy combatants as opposed to citizens they should be protecting. Ending the drug war would be a major step towards de-escalation.

I always enjoy reading your input.

[kelkel]

A big part of the equation is the younger, enabled and entitled segment of society. Those brought up to not respect anything, from parents to teachers, cops, and so on. Then when they get in trouble it's never their fault, it's once again the police for arresting them or teachers for not teaching them or the government for not giving them enough. They've turned themselves into victims instead of taking one iota of personal responsibility. Need we talk about the demise of the family and one parent households as contributing factors?

Yes, there are bad cops, but the percentage is very small. The good things cops do just aren't news worthy. There are also bad plumbers, salesman, accountants and shitheads in every profession. Just wait and see what happens when society and politicians blatantly hamstring police departments by not supporting them and law enforcement naturally steps back enforcement. Lets face it, cops want to go home at night too. Crime will dramatically rise and those that complained will then be crying for enforcement. Baltimore is a classic example of exactly this. The crime rate has risen dramatically there.

Rant over...

[zaggahamma]

A big part of the equation is the younger, enabled and entitled segment of society. Those brought up to not respect anything, from parents to teachers, cops, and so on. Then when they get in trouble it's never their fault, it's once again the police for arresting them or teachers for not teaching them or the government for not giving them enough. They've turned themselves into victims instead of taking one iota of personal responsibility. Need we talk about the demise of the family and one parent households as contributing factors?

Yes, there are bad cops, but the percentage is very small. The good things cops do just aren't news worthy. There are also bad plumbers, salesman, accountants and shitheads in every profession. Just wait and see what happens when society and politicians blatantly hamstring police departments by not supporting them and law enforcement naturally steps back enforcement. Lets face it, cops want to go home at night too. Crime will dramatically rise and those that complained will then be crying for enforcement. Baltimore is a classic example of exactly this. The crime rate has risen dramatically there.

Rant over...

this is also how i see it

[RA]

My son and some friends were stopped for drinking redbull. They were detained while additional units showed up. Cops abuse their power all the time and something needs to be done about it.

[lovbyts]

My son and some friends were stopped for drinking redbull. They were detained while additional units showed up. Cops abuse their power all the time and something needs to be done about it.

I dont get it. What's wrong with a cop saying to the kids Ohh Ok it's only red bulls. Great guys, have a good night and keep it safe. Then the kids would have some respect for the cops and see he was only doing his job but NO, he/they had to make a big deal of nothing and try to intimidate them even though they did nothing.

Makes no sense, kids grow into adults and remember this sh*t, it doesnt make them or scare them into being law abiding citizens when they have dont nothing wrong in the 1st place.

I still remember the 1st cop who pulled me over and wrote me a ticket for street racing and reckless driving. No, all I did was driving my buddies car for the 1st time with power brakes (1970s Tbird) and I was use to a 1970 Chevy Vega with manual brakes. First red light I came to I put on the brakes and the car locked up the tires and skidded. 65 Mustang in the next lane did a smoke show when the light turned green (kids cruising area) and cop pulled me over instead of the Mustang because it was gone.

Ahole cop had 3 other cruisers there in seconds and tried to intimidate me. When I went to court the cop blatantly lied about what happened and what I said to him. Officer Ludwell.... cost me my license for 6 months and who knows how much it cost me on insurance. Someday.....

[davidtheman100]

I dont get it. What's wrong with a cop saying to the kids Ohh Ok it's only red bulls. Great guys, have a good night and keep it safe. Then the kids would have some respect for the cops and see he was only doing his job but NO, he/they had to make a big deal of nothing and try to intimidate them even though they did nothing.

Makes no sense, kids grow into adults and remember this sh*t, it doesnt make them or scare them into being law abiding citizens when they have dont nothing wrong in the 1st place.

I still remember the 1st cop who pulled me over and wrote me a ticket for street racing and reckless driving. No, all I did was driving my buddies car for the 1st time with power brakes (1970s Tbird) and I was use to a 1970 Chevy Vega with manual brakes. First red light I came to I put on the brakes and the car locked up the tires and skidded. 65 Mustang in the next lane did a smoke show when the light turned green (kids cruising area) and cop pulled me over instead of the Mustang because it was gone.

Ahole cop had 3 other cruisers there in seconds and tried to intimidate me. When I went to court the cop blatantly lied about what happened and what I said to him. Officer Ludwell.... cost me my license for 6 months and who knows how much it cost me on insurance. Someday.....

You know exactly why it can't be that way. Years ago i'm sure they were able to do that and DID do that on numerous occassions. But now everything is more documented and organized, and there are cameras everywhere. Back then when they could tell somebody to not do it again and have a good night, with the modern day kids/young adults that would NEVER WORK these days. They would turn right around and do what they were told not to, and then the cop would look bad for not stopping them when they should have. It's a loss/loss..The cop gets in trouble, AND the kids get in trouble + the damage they did..

Now adays a kid could just beat the hell out of somebody and if you didn't arrest them and just roughed them up and told them to not do it again or you'd kick their ass they would probably have the nerve to sue you so that can't be done anymore either...There are no other options anymore they're all stressed out..This is not a newly developed system that was made 10 years ago alot of things have already been tried and it's not gonna get any better the lovely president has installed more cameras around towns specifically made to see police brutality as if that's the biggest concern rather than the most documented, and most interesting/eye-catching to the public.

[lovbyts]

You know exactly why it can't be that way. Years ago i'm sure they were able to do that and DID do that on numerous occassions. But now everything is more documented and organized, and there are cameras everywhere. Back then when they could tell somebody to not do it again and have a good night, with the modern day kids/young adults that would NEVER WORK these days. They would turn right around and do what they were told not to, and then the cop would look bad for not stopping them when they should have. It's a loss/loss..The cop gets in trouble, AND the kids get in trouble + the damage they did..

Now adays a kid could just beat the hell out of somebody and if you didn't arrest them and just roughed them up and told them to not do it again or you'd kick their ass they would probably have the nerve to sue you so that can't be done anymore either...There are no other options anymore they're all stressed out..This is not a newly developed system that was made 10 years ago alot of things have already been tried and it's not gonna get any better the lovely president has installed more cameras around towns specifically made to see police brutality as if that's the biggest concern rather than the most documented, and most interesting/eye-catching to the public.

Do what? They were not doing anything wrong but the cop still had to make an issue out of nothing? Thats what I dont get. I have had cops go far out of there way to try to prove someone or me did something wrong when there wasnt anything.

Just like another time (actually twice) ive had a cop try to blame me for an accident when it was obvious it wasnt my fault even to the point where the other party involved had to come up and say to the cop WTF are you doing? I already told you it was 100% my fault, not his? The cop just got pissed and said FINE and stormed off. What the hell???

[wmaousley]

Do what? They were not doing anything wrong but the cop still had to make an issue out of nothing? Thats what I dont get. I have had cops go far out of there way to try to prove someone or me did something wrong when there wasnt anything.

Just like another time (actually twice) ive had a cop try to blame me for an accident when it was obvious it wasnt my fault even to the point where the other party involved had to come up and say to the cop WTF are you doing? I already told you it was 100% my fault, not his? The cop just got pissed and said FINE and stormed off. What the hell???

Cops shouldn't even question anyone unless they have reasonable articulated suspicion that a crime has been or is being committed. Simply detaining someone for a Redbull is a civil rights violation. Pure power trip. Most of the bad cops were the dipshits that were picked on in high school, college and or were failures at everything else in life. So to boost their ego they hide their insecurities behind a damn badge.

[RA]

Agreed but that's not the state of law enforcement in certain areas. It starts at the top. A good Chief, Sherriff, etc then the department generally is good.

I dont get it. What's wrong with a cop saying to the kids Ohh Ok it's only red bulls. Great guys, have a good night and keep it safe. Then the kids would have some respect for the cops and see he was only doing his job but NO, he/they had to make a big deal of nothing and try to intimidate them even though they did nothing.

Makes no sense, kids grow into adults and remember this sh*t, it doesnt make them or scare them into being law abiding citizens when they have dont nothing wrong in the 1st place.

I still remember the 1st cop who pulled me over and wrote me a ticket for street racing and reckless driving. No, all I did was driving my buddies car for the 1st time with power brakes (1970s Tbird) and I was use to a 1970 Chevy Vega with manual brakes. First red light I came to I put on the brakes and the car locked up the tires and skidded. 65 Mustang in the next lane did a smoke show when the light turned green (kids cruising area) and cop pulled me over instead of the Mustang because it was gone.

Ahole cop had 3 other cruisers there in seconds and tried to intimidate me. When I went to court the cop blatantly lied about what happened and what I said to him. Officer Ludwell.... cost me my license for 6 months and who knows how much it cost me on insurance. Someday.....

[wmaousley]

Agreed but that's not the state of law enforcement in certain areas. It starts at the top. A good Chief, Sherriff, etc then the department generally is good.

We had a Sheriff that was on a major power trip in Okaloosa County Florida for years and he would break the law and allow his deputies break the law just to arrest or ticket someone. Then the great news. Sheriff Charlie Morris and his 7 main dipshits were indicted on federal charges for taking money and various other civil right violations.

The sad thing is they only got 4 fvcking years for a crime that would have ended with decades of incarceration for any of us.

I hate shlt bag cops, and absolutely respect the good ones. All it takes is one to give a bad name for the others.