Strange cycle for strange circumstances

[RamboQuarterSegment]

(My experience with enanthate esters is that it accumulates to such a degree it can take 2months before its cleared the system.
That is with very long use though. But I'm trying to stay on the safe side here)

Do you mean the anabolic molecule, or do you mean the ester that's cleaved from the original combined molecule?

[RamboQuarterSegment]

as I want really heavy hitting androgens to prevent fat gain.

I've heard that school of thought but I'm not with it. One of my favourite compounds to run when I'm afraid of PCT is Oxandrolone because of it's low androgenicity. There's a lot to be said for high androgenicity (e.g. running Tren at 1.2g / wk), but there's a lot to be said for low androgenicity too (e.g. Test 150mg / wk with Oxandrolone 70mg ED).

[DocToxin8]

Which sex hormones?

Low androgens, normal or high E2, but not supraphysiologically high,
normal progesterone.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

Nandrolone is supressive and not easily available as prop.
NPP is a possibility, and it would definitely help

Shouldn't be an issue if you've already blasted your HPTA.

DBOL, I could have used it instead of anadrol,
or combined it with drol, but it aromatize to methyl estradiol where anadrol doesn't aromatize.

Dianabol is on my ban list... you may aswell just inject your muscles with bacteriostatic water. Anadrol though is good if you're going for a high-androgenicity cycle. I'm going for low androgenicity nowadays though.

[DocToxin8]

Do you mean the anabolic molecule, or do you mean the ester that's cleaved from the original combined molecule?

I mean accumulation of the steroid with the ester still on it in fatty tissues.
(I think so, or just the steroid, the ester in itself is most welcome to stay,
however I don't think it can, esterases being quite abundant in human tissue)

[RamboQuarterSegment]

It's not that I think it's impossible for me to go 8 weeks clean,
it's just that it's something I need to be really really prepared and willing to do.

At least you're realisitic.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

I'm still a virgin and would never have sex before I've been married for 5 years.

Proper order.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

Say you run 100mg anadrol/ED, you'll (I) feel better when doing 50mg DBOL and 50mg Drol.

Here's a thought experiment...

Let's say your liver can take 100mg of COMPOUND A per week.

Let's say your liver can take 100mg of COMPOUND B per week.

Does that mean that your liver can take 50mg of COMPOUND A concurrently with 50mg of COMPOUND B per week?

[DocToxin8]

Shouldn't be an issue if you've already blasted your HPTA.

Dianabol is on my ban list... you may aswell just inject your muscles with bacteriostatic water. Anadrol though is good if you're going for a high-androgenicity cycle. I'm going for low androgenicity nowadays though.

As long as LH&FSH isn't reduced to zero at the end I agree about NPP.

I find DBOL to work very well, and make me feel very well.
Drol however, I used to not be able to tolerate more than 25mg/day with it, and even then feel like shit, but now my body reacts differently to it,
fills me out, doesn't feel like shit (unless used for months),
gives strength and mass and little water. (Water depends greatly on diet and amount of test/E2 along with the drol though)

[RamboQuarterSegment]

1 week of Tren enanthate is for keeping some Tren in my system the first 2 weeks, to help stay anabolic and high androgen activation for at least some of the time with the insulin.

I used testosterone suspension for this purpose. Or the next best thing testosterone propionate. Trenbolone enanthate is an awful choice for this.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

Strength is usually up within days, not because of any gain in muscle but the neurological effect of androgens.

There's a far more effective way of achieving this psychosomatic effect than relying on the psychotropic effect of a drug. A far more effective way.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

When a muscle is trained (and this effect is amplified by AAS)
it responds by recruiting satellite cells to fuse with the muscle fiber, and donate it's cell nucleus. The muscle fiber will first increase its number of nuclei.
Then, with the addition of more nuclei the muscle fiber is able to produce protein at a faster rate, since it's the nucleus that's sends messenger RNA/mRNA to the ribosomes, and the muscle fiber increase in size.
Interestingly, when one stops training and the muscle mass is lost, the nuclei in the fibers still seem to be there, at least for a long time. And when one starts to train again, the muscle grows back to its previous size much faster.
(Muscle memory)

Your logic is sound.

It has been suggested that the nuclionic increase induced by synthol has a similar effect (if not used to excess, of course).

[DocToxin8]

Here's a thought experiment...

Let's say your liver can take 100mg of COMPOUND A per week.

Let's say your liver can take 100mg of COMPOUND B per week.

Does that mean that your liver can take 50mg of COMPOUND A concurrently with 50mg of COMPOUND B per week?

Hehe, that's impossible to predict.
But would it take 50mg dbol and 50mg drol as well as 100mg drol?
Well drol could be less liver toxic than dbol with its very low AR affinity.
DBOL might be less liver toxic due to being able to aromatize. (At a low degree though)

Aromatization and AR affinity affects liver toxicity in C17 methylated compounds I believe.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

But we're not only looking at the kick in time for Tren e, since I wanted it as a heavy androgen along with the insulin.
Will it be there, in circulation, along with the insulin for 2 weeks, providing anabolic synergy and hindering fat gain?

Tren E is a terrible choice for this. Testosterone suspension, or if your supplier can't get suspension, then testosterone propionate.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

Yeah. It's light on the cardiovascular system, reduces prolactin by inhibiting the dopamine transporter/DAT (released DA isn't removed from the synaptic cleft by reuptake), increased lipolysis/fat loss, boost mood and stabilize/calms you down, but can still increase energy.
It's also very synergistic with caffeine, but that increase side effects like sweating, jitteryness, etc.
It's non addictive (for most people).
And finally it has a short duration of action.

I used an anti-psychotic for a similar purpose (i.e. a dopamine antagonist such as olanzapine or risperidone).

[RamboQuarterSegment]

Overall I like your cycle, but if I were going for an extreme cycle to beef up as much as possible as quickly as possible, then I'd keep it simple. Best gains I ever got were from:

Testosterone(combined esters) 1.5g / wk, Trenbolone Enanthate 1.2g / wk, Metandienone 100mg ED

Looking back on it, I should have used milk thistle.... maybe I would have kept my gains.

[DocToxin8]

I used an anti-psychotic for a similar purpose (i.e. a dopamine antagonist such as olanzapine or risperidone).

You mean to stabilize mood?
A DA antagonist would increase prolactin.
But i can also see it helping with appetite, etc.

I'm however deathly afraid of all DA antagonists/antipsychotics,
after knowing first hand how it's like to be put in a cage and fed large amounts.
Took me months to recover; went to the store, bought some food, took the bus, realized i forgot the food on the bus station, went back, bought more food, took the bus, realized I forgot the food on the bus station again...

[RamboQuarterSegment]

Hehe, that's impossible to predict.
But would it take 50mg dbol and 50mg drol as well as 100mg drol?
Well drol could be less liver toxic than dbol with its very low AR affinity.
DBOL might be less liver toxic due to being able to aromatize. (At a low degree though)

Aromatization and AR affinity affects liver toxicity in C17 methylated compounds I believe.

Let's not get specific yet..... don't substitute in dbol and drol yet.... let's stick with COMPOUND A and COMPOUND B.

If Compound A attacks the liver via Method X, and if Compound B attacks the liver via Method Y, then I think it is incredibly unlikely that any given person's liver will be able to handle 50mg of each concurrently. In fact, I reckon 50mg of each concurrently would be a massacre.

That's my take on it.

[DocToxin8]

There's a far more effective way of achieving this psychosomatic effect than relying on the psychotropic effect of a drug. A far more effective way.

There's many ways;
From hypnosis to all manner of psychological manipulation,
to differing drugs.

But what do you have in mind?

[DocToxin8]

Let's not get specific yet..... don't substitute in dbol and drol yet.... let's stick with COMPOUND A and COMPOUND B.

If Compound A attacks the liver via Method X, and if Compound B attacks the liver via Method Y, then I think it is incredibly unlikely that any given person's liver will be able to handle 50mg of each concurrently. In fact, I reckon 50mg of each concurrently would be a massacre.

That's my take on it.

I like your reasoning, but then factor this in also:

The liver has eX amount of enzymes to handle breakdown of compound X,
It has eY amount of enzymes to handle compound Y,
then using less of compound X with added compound Y would make total sense.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

You mean to stabilize mood?
A DA antagonist would increase prolactin.
But i can also see it helping with appetite, etc.

I'm however deathly afraid of all DA antagonists/antipsychotics,
after knowing first hand how it's like to be put in a cage and fed large amounts.

hahaha. By mood stabiliser, do you mean major tranquiliser? The only drug we have right now in 2016 that even comes close to a mood stabiliser is Lithium.... and even Lithium has its consequences.

Took me months to recover; went to the store, bought some food, took the bus, realized i forgot the food on the bus station, went back, bought more food, took the bus, realized I forgot the food on the bus station again...

I took me 3 hours to leave the house one morning. I kept going upstairs to brush my teeth... realised I had already brushed them... went back downstairs... then thought what did I go upstairs for... went back up... remembered I'd already brushed me teeth... went back down. I think I did that for 3 hours.

A DA antagonist would increase prolactin.
But i can also see it helping with appetite, etc.

Of course, that's why I was taking Cabergoline.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

There's many ways;
From hypnosis to all manner of psychological manipulation,
to differing drugs.

But what do you have in mind?

LiveLeak. Right before your workout, look at a really fucked up video. It's a bit of a balancing act.... I mean I found that if I watched the one of the Russian conscripts having their throats cut, then that would stand me in good stead for a heavy workout. Same goes for the decapitation of the Mexican woman. But if you breach your window of tolerance, for example the one in the Venezuelan prison where they cut off a man's fingers and feed them to him, then you might make yourself sick to your stomach and be weak for the day. You recover 24 hours later though and you will have increased your window of tolerance and thus be able for more punishment.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

You recover 24 hours later though and you will have increased your window of tolerance and thus be able for more punishment.

Both emotional and in terms of physiological hardiness.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

I like your reasoning, but then factor this in also:

The liver has eX amount of enzymes to handle breakdown of compound X,
It has eY amount of enzymes to handle compound Y,
then using less of compound X with added compound Y would make total sense.

Almost a counter-synergistic effect. My theory would result in severe liver damage, while your theory would result in a more healthy liver. I wonder is there a way of testing which theory is right (with particular compounds) without risking serious liver damage? Can you think of a way?

[RamboQuarterSegment]

Low androgens, normal or high E2, but not supraphysiologically high,
normal progesterone.

It's arguable that the only sex hormone in males is testosterone, as it could be argued that the estrogens and progesterone serve no reproductive purpose.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

I mean accumulation of the steroid with the ester still on it in fatty tissues.
(I think so, or just the steroid, the ester in itself is most welcome to stay,
however I don't think it can, esterases being quite abundant in human tissue)

While the de-cleaving of esterified molecules takes place at a higher rate in blood than in fatty tissues, the rate of transfer of the esterified molecule to a fat desposit, then back to blood, then back to fat deposit, then back to blood, is quite regular.

[DocToxin8]

LiveLeak. Right before your workout, look at a really fucked up video. It's a bit of a balancing act.... I mean I found that if I watched the one of the Russian conscripts having their throats cut, then that would stand me in good stead for a heavy workout. Same goes for the decapitation of the Mexican woman. But if you breach your window of tolerance, for example the one in the Venezuelan prison where they cut off a man's fingers and feed them to him, then you might make yourself sick to your stomach and be weak for the day. You recover 24 hours later though and you will have increased your window of tolerance and thus be able for more punishment.

LOL! That's a twisted way to do it, but I can see it working.
Nothing makes me more angry than abuse of women, or injustice.
(Justice is a very fleeting term though, so I'll add injustice according to me, and regarding people I care or can emphasize with,
if I saw someone shooting some ISIS recruits that hadn't done anything wrong (yet), and could have been captured... Bad example...
If I saw someone shooting Donald Trump... Bad example...
If I saw someone shooting Paris Hilton... I wouldn't shout hooray.. Bad example..
Ehhhh...

Anyways, looking at women being raped f.ex wouldn't just make me pissed, but sick (unless I were there, in which case I'd really enjoy killing the rapist...)

I'm not so sure this technique would work for me...
But I feel an urge to check out LiveLeak now...

[DocToxin8]

While the de-cleaving of esterified molecules takes place at a higher rate in blood than in fatty tissues, the rate of transfer of the esterified molecule to a fat desposit, then back to blood, then back to fat deposit, then back to blood, is quite regular.

Right on!

That makes sense, in the average male about 70% of his body fat is transported out of the cells, to the capillary, then back to the fat cell again, each day.
Steroid with ester (which then makes it a fatty acid really), would follow the same course. Thanks for clearing that up!

[RamboQuarterSegment]

LOL! That's a twisted way to do it, but I can see it working.

There's being twisted and then there's just being realistic. Viewing certain material causes an emotional reaction that can have an extreme psychosomatic effect (e.g. increase in strength, reduced heart rate, deeper breathing.

Nothing makes me more angry than abuse of women, or injustice.
(Justice is a very fleeting term though, so I'll add injustice according to me, and regarding people I care or can emphasize with,
if I saw someone shooting some ISIS recruits that hadn't done anything wrong (yet), and could have been captured... Bad example...
If I saw someone shooting Donald Trump... Bad example...
If I saw someone shooting Paris Hilton... I wouldn't shout hooray.. Bad example..
Ehhhh...

Anyways, looking at women being raped f.ex wouldn't just make me pissed, but sick (unless I were there, in which case I'd really enjoy killing the rapist...)

The rape videos don't last long. You think LiveLeak would be the place for them but they always get taken down. There was 8min anal rape scene going around I haven't seen it in years... it's probably gathering dust on a CD-R in a vault in someone's basement.

I'm not so sure this technique would work for me...
But I feel an urge to check out LiveLeak now...

Different strokes for different folks. I found that the video of they guy trying the Houdini handcuff trick in the bath increased my heartrate and cardio immensely.

I did the LiveLeak thing for a while, but that's not how I prepare for heavy workouts anymore. There's another way which is significantly more effective.

[Mr.BB]

While the de-cleaving of esterified molecules takes place at a higher rate in blood than in fatty tissues, the rate of transfer of the esterified molecule to a fat desposit, then back to blood, then back to fat deposit, then back to blood, is quite regular.

The lunny is back.

Kimbo go find a job or something.

[DocToxin8]

Almost a counter-synergistic effect. My theory would result in severe liver damage, while your theory would result in a more healthy liver. I wonder is there a way of testing which theory is right (with particular compounds) without risking serious liver damage? Can you think of a way?

On a human?

Hmm, one would need a study group, say 20males,
Group 1 (of 10males) would recieve 50+50mg of dbol/drol,
Group 2 would recieve 100mg drol.
If one could recruit 20 more people then:
Group 3: 100mg dbol
Group 4: control
The experiment is ran for 10 days.
Unless participants have some irregular reaction no real damage occurs in this time frame.
Bloodwork on day 0, 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 11, 12, 20.
Differences in all liver values need to be checked.
The results of this test, if any, would just be a hint for further research.

But the only ethical way would be animal testing.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

The lunny is back.

Kimbo go find a job or something.

I'm spending a lot of time with two local churches here lately........ most times they call me when they have a guy who's just about to go on a killing spree and they ask me to talk to him, and by the end of the conversation we're usually talking about different rehab choices.

Good to see you're still around BB. Shame I never made it to a thousand posts, I was at 993 or something. Never forgive myself for that.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

On a human?

Hmm, one would need a study group, say 20males,
Group 1 (of 10males) would recieve 50+50mg of dbol/drol,
Group 2 would recieve 100mg drol.
If one could recruit 20 more people then:
Group 3: 100mg dbol
Group 4: control
The experiment is ran for 10 days.
Unless participants have some irregular reaction no real damage occurs in this time frame.
Bloodwork on day 0, 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 11, 12, 20.
Differences in all liver values need to be checked.
The results of this test, if any, would just be a hint for further research.

But the only ethical way would be animal testing.

Let me think about this for a few hours....... as I had been mulling over another suggestion.

[DocToxin8]

hahaha. By mood stabiliser, do you mean major tranquiliser? The only drug we have right now in 2016 that even comes close to a mood stabiliser is Lithium.... and even Lithium has its consequences.

mood stabilizers according to the medical community:
Lithium, lamotrigine, valproate.
However, antipsychotics are also used for this by doctors not understanding how bad they can be, and really should be reserved for what their name implies: psychosis, and even then I'd suggest trying benzodiazepines with 5HT2A blocking agents (like mianserine, mirtazapine) first.
I do understand that with acute psychosis you'll take whatever works though)

Mood stabilizers according to me:
Methylphenidate, amphetamine (low dose), benzodiazepines, Pregabline.

[RamboQuarterSegment]

mood stabilizers according to the medical community:
Lithium, lamotrigine, valproate.
However, antipsychotics are also used for this by doctors not understanding how bad they can be, and really should be reserved for what their name implies: psychosis, and even then I'd suggest trying benzodiazepines with 5HT2A blocking agents (like mianserine, mirtazapine) first.
I do understand that with acute psychosis you'll take whatever works though)

Mood stabilizers according to me:
Methylphenidate, amphetamine (low dose), benzodiazepines, Pregabline.

Let's get back to bodybuilding for a second I started doing something 3 years ago that I've found more effective than LiveLeak thing for immediate strength increase, and after 3 years of 5-days-a-week, it's still working for me.

[DocToxin8]

Let's get back to bodybuilding for a second I started doing something 3 years ago that I've found more effective than LiveLeak thing for immediate strength increase, and after 3 years of 5-days-a-week, it's still working for me.

Are u gonna share this knowledge per chance?
(I agree, let's get back to bodybuilding, I'm not easily distracted am I? )

[RamboQuarterSegment]

Are u gonna share this knowledge per chance?
(I agree, let's get back to bodybuilding, I'm not easily distracted am I? )

Well before I share........ how determined are you? How far are you willing to go?

Are you willing to empty your cup to taste my tea?

[Cuz]

The lunny is back.

Kimbo go find a job or something.

1.2 g tren gave him away lol

[Mr.BB]

Well before I share........ how determined are you? How far are you willing to go?

Are you willing to empty your cup to taste my tea?

Nobody wants your tea.

150lbs guy on 1.2g tren lol

[RamboQuarterSegment]

Nobody wants your tea.

150lbs guy on 1.2g tren lol

Two points worth mentioning:
* I'm only 5'3" in height
* I lost all my gains when I spent 4.5 weeks in a hospital bed

I actually reached my goal of 70kg earlier this week (up from 52.5kg when I start weightlifting when I was 21).

The 1.5g Test, 1.2g Tren, 100mg Dbol only lasted about 5 or 6 weeks before I got the phone call from my general practitioner...... "Are you near a hospital?". Best 5 or 6 weeks of my life though if you disregard the diarrhorea.