Frustrating side effect of my TRT

[anoxicblaze]

The hand thing happened more before trt, to be honest. I will come off it. Depressing. First time I haven't felt borderline suicidal for years. In fact I felt so good. Could coming off SSRI 's affect blood pressure too?


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[The Deadlifting Dog]

The hand thing happened more before trt, to be honest. I will come off it. Depressing. First time I haven't felt borderline suicidal for years. In fact I felt so good. Could coming off SSRI 's affect blood pressure too?


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If coming off your ssri's increases your anxiety/stress level then yes it could increase your BP

[EDCG19]

I'm a little confused. My GP said my blood was fine but you guys are shocked. Is she a useless GP?


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Your blood work is not good at all,. I don't know who told you that is good blood work but you're nearing 60% for hematrocrit. The highest I have ever seen it at was in the mid 50s, you're are away above that. Donate, low dose aspirin, and lower your dose...

Get another doc or start reading up on what you need

I would take doctoxin's advice to heart, read that shit this isn't healthy at all

[anoxicblaze]

DONATE OR DRAIN BLOOD ASAP!!!
That's 0,59 hematocrit is so high, a friend of mine just had the same result and the endo said he'd only had 3 other cases with such a high hematocrit and he's the leading doctor for bodybuilders in this country.

Start aspirin at 100mg a day ASAP too.

Then if you're not allready on one, I'd suggest an ACE inhibitor like ramipril for hypertension. I get zero sides from ramipril even at 10mg a day. (Over that isn't considered to give any additional benefit, although I think the FDA says 20mg is max dose)

So:
DONATE now! If you get a stroke now with such a hematocrit it will be bad.
Aspirin 75-100mg ED (no more, that only hinders prostacyclin production and therefore isn't what you want, it's the inactivation of thromboxane A2 you're after) ; aspirin in that dose is virtually side effect free, prolongs bleeding time (which is the point), and prevents migraines (a nice side effect if you suffer from them)

ACE inhibitor or ang2 antagonist or both;
I'd suggest ramipril as that drug is known to have beneficial side effects on heart tissue and AAS (like testosterone) upregulate Angiotensin 2 production,
so blocking that with an ACE inhibitor would be my first choice for hypertension.

Diuretics if needed, hopefully getting your hematocrit in check (at 0.50) and ramipril is enough to ensure good BP.

I have been put on Perindropil Erbumine. 2mg per day. Thoughts?


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[gymffiti]

Just read through this thread.

Afraid I can't offer much expertise here, other than consume more Potassium than Sodium.

I know some people recommend a 4 to 1 ratio ... So basically a sh*t ton of Kale, for every packet of McDonalds fries

Anyway, good luck anoxicblaze

[anoxicblaze]

Cheers. Just on my way to give blood now. Wonder how much that will bring down my levels and for how long.


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[APIs]

I can see the need for some to self administer TRT due to financial reasons. However, when you get into the habit of playing Doctor, you end up with a fool for a patient. Your high blood pressure likely started way before you ever even considered TRT. Clinically, heart disease develops over years & years of doing the wrong thing(s). Symptoms of it (i.e. High Blood Pressure) do not just magically show up one day. TRT or no TRT. No offense meant, but OP needs prompt medical intervention. Good luck...

[anoxicblaze]

Blood donation denied due to ACE inhibitor meds I've just been put on. Sick of it.


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[anoxicblaze]

I have a strange feeling my blood pressure monitor was faulty. I'm going to buy one and check it every day. Can't do any harm. When the fitted it, it errored several times.


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[anoxicblaze]

I can see the need for some to self administer TRT due to financial reasons. However, when you get into the habit of playing Doctor, you end up with a fool for a patient. Your high blood pressure likely started way before you ever even considered TRT. Clinically, heart disease develops over years & years of doing the wrong thing(s). Symptoms of it (i.e. High Blood Pressure) do not just magically show up one day. TRT or no TRT. No offense meant, but OP needs prompt medical intervention. Good luck...

I think the 59% blood thing is what most are pretty convinced was directly linked to my TRT. Also, not doing it for money reasons, doing it because GP won't. Easy to say "I would rather have depression" but based on how I went from suicidal to feeling amazing I reckon it could save lives. Had I not done it would I even be around to type this message?


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[anoxicblaze]

I wasn't quoting you there obviously, by the way. Somebody else.


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[macmathews]

I think the 59% blood thing is what most are pretty convinced was directly linked to my TRT. Also, not doing it for money reasons, doing it because GP won't. Easy to say "I would rather have depression" but based on how I went from suicidal to feeling amazing I reckon it could save lives. Had I not done it would I even be around to type this message?


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Get your blood work better , Diet , exercise and get back on when you've lost some weight and have things under contro..
Its gonna be an uphill battle but something for you to look foward too

Kyle

[Youthful55guy]

Blood donation denied due to ACE inhibitor meds I've just been put on. Sick of it.


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Are you sure it was due to an ACR inhibitor and not some other deferral criteria? Here in the USA, the FDA mandates which drugs the various blood centers should and should not defer volunteers. There are no blood pressure medications on that list. I've been on an ACE inhibitor for over 3 years and they always accept my blood.

[anoxicblaze]

I have to be on it for over a month. Then I'm fine to donate blood. I'm getting a fancy blood pressure strap and monitor delivered tomorrow. I still don't believe the results.


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[DocToxin8]

Ok, it's just cause they fear you'll get hypotension (low BP) since you're not been on the ACE inhibitor long.
I really think that's BS for anyone using AAS.
Just drink some water after donating and I can't imagine it will be a problem.
So I wouldn't even mention using it.

Worst case scenario is that you donate and then go into shock,
which is something they take seriously.
Perhaps a bit too seriously in this case IMO.

[anoxicblaze]

I should have just told them I was on ZERO medication. Too late now though. It's on record.


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[hammerheart]

Get a manual sphygmomanometer if you know how to use it, it isn't difficult to.

[anoxicblaze]

Pleased to say my new blood pressure reading is better but still pretty bad obviously. Now 167/116 (was 202/116). I suspected the 202 was an error. The reading I have just taken was after a lengthy walk. I was sweating like a pig too, so it may be lower tonight. I've got all my meds now so let's see how it goes. More worried about my hemotoctit than my blood pressure to be honest.


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[Youthful55guy]

I should have just told them I was on ZERO medication. Too late now though. It's on record.


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I don't know how they do it in your donation center, but in ours, they don't ask you specifically which medications you are taking. Instead, they dive you a list of medications you can't be taking. For example, finasteride is on the forbidden list. The list is not very long and our list (which is published by the US FDA) does not contain ACE inhibitors.

[TRA]

I have to be on it for over a month. Then I'm fine to donate blood. I'm getting a fancy blood pressure strap and monitor delivered tomorrow. I still don't believe the results.


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Once you get the monitor make sure at some point to take it with you for a bp check at the doctor's office so somewhere else that will take your pressure manually and for free. Then you get an idea of how accurate your monitor is. The home monitors are typically consistent, but may run high or low - as long as you know if you need to add, subtract or do nothing to the home reading you can monitor at home. Don't get the wrist monitors. Those suck and terribly inaccurate, even when they use them in the clinics (which they shouldn't as they are POS).

[jwh7699]

Like most said you should stop the TRT for the time being. This alone will bring down your Hematocrit a few points.

The swelling is not good. Drink more water, reduce sodium, Monitor your BP, Raise Arms above head (to help with reducing Edema in arms), Ankle Pumps for leg edema. Relax. Calming Music. Stress can raise BP.

Did they do any Kidney function blood tests?

Is the swelling all over or just your arms?

Have you had the swelling in the past?

Contact your Doctor to see if there is something you can take to reduce the swelling. Don't just take something OTC, you don't know how it may interact with the Medicine you are currently taking.

If you have any shortness of breath, call 911. Don't wait.

Definetly donate blood as soon as possible.

Blood-Letting depends on the person. Some people get a little scared when doing it themselves.

" Fish oil, sesamin, low sodium and a low-carb diet may be helpful."

"An increase in blood pressure, alongside an increase in blood volume, causes extra “fluid” to be pushed from within blood vessels to the area between cells called the interstitial space. This is the beginning of one cause of androgen-associated edema."

Look into getting your DHT levels checked. Don't start taking other hormones right now. The priority is to get your Edema and BP under control.


"Yet, it appears that DHT is the main culprit in AAS-associated edema, and estrogens get a pass this time.7 This may be relevant when choosing treatment modality in TRT, as topical agents have been shown to increase serum DHT over twice what was seen with injected testosterone."

Testosterone-Induced Water Retention - How To Combat It

[anoxicblaze]

Thanks. I haven't had any swelling for some time now, so hopefully that won't return. I have cut my TRT down to 30mgx2 a week. I'm getting a full blood tests again this Friday. Interested to see the results again. If my levels remain high I will quit TRT. Re the blood pressure, today it was at 163/95 (down from 202/116) so maybe the pills have kicked in.


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[jwh7699]

Better than it was. How long was it from the time you started to get edema until it went away?

Hematocrit level will be important, Estradiol, and a Kidney Function Test.

You should look into getting a DHT test, you'll probably have to purchase the test on your own.

Good Luck!!

[anoxicblaze]

Better than it was. How long was it from the time you started to get edema until it went away?

Hematocrit level will be important, Estradiol, and a Kidney Function Test.

You should look into getting a DHT test, you'll probably have to purchase the test on your own.

Good Luck!!

I was getting the swelling on and off for a few months. It seems to have gone down a little while doing TRT to be honest. Right now I have no issue with it. All my other tests were in range apart from the thick blood and Folic acid, which is very low. Creatinine was a bit high.


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[anoxicblaze]

Had RBC test, ecg, urine, blood pressure test today. Results Tuesday. Must say, taking 60mg of test e rather than 150mg is certainly noticeable performance wise in the gym. As you would expect. My test level (I estimate) will be more like 700 now rather than 1200. If my blood remains thick I will come off it. I feel okay at the moment. Missing the crazy energy though.


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[hollowedzeus]

If it remains thick but other markers are reasonable why not try blood letting or ask the doc for an emergency blood draw to be discarded. I know nach and a couple of pther guys self bleed they might be able to help

[anoxicblaze]

If it remains thick but other markers are reasonable why not try blood letting or ask the doc for an emergency blood draw to be discarded. I know nach and a couple of pther guys self bleed they might be able to help

I couldn't self bleed. Too extreme. I've tried getting rid of blood but no luck so far due to rules. I have to wait another two or three weeks.
Unfortunately my blood thickness has gone up from 59% to 61% in my last test (Friday). Very worrying. I was expecting it to go down as I've done everything asked of me.
My blood pressure has gone down from 202/116 to 138/100.

[hollowedzeus]

Your blood is very thick mate. Something needs done. Hopefully someonr has some other soloution lol.

Ask around and see if you have any nurses in the family or friends of the family. They would be able to draw blood for you.

[TRA]

I couldn't self bleed. Too extreme. I've tried getting rid of blood but no luck so far due to rules. I have to wait another two or three weeks.
Unfortunately my blood thickness has gone up from 59% to 61% in my last test (Friday). Very worrying. I was expecting it to go down as I've done everything asked of me.
My blood pressure has gone down from 202/116 to 138/100.

That hematocrit is extremely high. I have commented on this here and in PM and won't comment again, but you are at risk now with the level, and significantly so. I prefer to discuss, give suggestions, avoid giving advice but right now I will give you the advice of getting something done about that blood asap. Not in two or three weeks, now. See a doc and get an order for phlebotomy as someone above suggested. At this point your health and well-being is very much at risk!

[anoxicblaze]

I can't force them to do it! That's the problem.


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[hollowedzeus]

I can't force them to do it! That's the problem.


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If your doctor cant understand 61% is unhealthy then you need to find someone who does and quickly. A trip to a&e might soon be on the cards if it isnt sorted.

If youre sure the doctors wont do it. Then you need to do it yourself. Do some research tonight and tomorrow on it

Get yourswlf sorted mate.

Demand an emergency gp appointment. A different gp if necessary. You need that shit out of your veins

[anoxicblaze]

Nobody has mentioned hydroxyurea. Thoughts?


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[anoxicblaze]

Just an update- went to doctors today to express my concerns, echoing the advice given to me here. I went to a different GP as most of you were shocked that she considered my results okay. As my HCT had gone from 59 to 61 I stressed how worried I was to the new GP. He said the same as the other one. Said nothing to be concerned about, said not to take aspirin, said I didn't need a blood draw etc. I told I couldn't sleep due to worrying about it so eventually he backed down and booked an appointment for me with a blood specialist. So....in my neck of the woods the docs really do see things differently to most on this forum. I think ultimately I'm just going to quit TRT as I am clearly responding badly to it. Which is such a shame. P.S. I got my HCT result pre TRT, it was 49.


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[hollowedzeus]

Im glad youre getting somehwere with the blood. Hopefully they draw it.

You might legitmaty need trt but perhaps under the guidence of someone who knows what they are doing. If youve got the money to pay for all these private blood tests then you have the money to go private.

Ive been to dr savage in doncaster. (Google 'leger clinic')
He really seems to know his stuff. He would keep a better eye on your health than you could or these clueless doctors.

Initial appointment is £180 then he conducts most things through email. He can prescribe hcg sust or nebido and such.

I would throw him an email and see what he says. If youre a bit a way its still worth the trip. I travelled 200 miles down yo go see him

[anoxicblaze]

Thanks. That's a great tip as I'm not far at all from Doncaster. I don't go private, way too expensive for me. However, i won't always be broke (hopefully). I think deep down I know that my first trt was basically a cycle. I started too high. It felt sooo good. After a week off it I can really notice the difference. Hoping my mental illness doesn't return as it completely vanished! First time since 1998 I haven't been depressed or psychotic. At the moment I'm mentally stable but my gym performance has declined. I can live with that. My brain comes first.


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[hollowedzeus]

Thanks. That's a great tip as I'm not far at all from Doncaster. I don't go private, way too expensive for me. However, i won't always be broke (hopefully). I think deep down I know that my first trt was basically a cycle. I started too high. It felt sooo good. After a week off it I can really notice the difference. Hoping my mental illness doesn't return as it completely vanished! First time since 1998 I haven't been depressed or psychotic. At the moment I'm mentally stable but my gym performance has declined. I can live with that. My brain comes first.


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Youve got a good attitude definetly mate. Wish you all the best . Private doesnt seem so expensive. My gp is taking over monitoring bloods. Prescription for nebido world out around £10 per week. £100ish per shot. Sustanon apparanty is around £100 per year (not sure about this one).

[anoxicblaze]

Just a quick update. I have been off TRT for over 4 weeks. Had a new blood test yesterday. My HCT is exactly the same at 60%. My globin is 19.2. Aspirin, diet, water had zero affect on results too. Most confusing. I am seeing a blood specialist on 16th. Thoughts?


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[hollowedzeus]

How are you feeling?

[anoxicblaze]

Fine in my body. Not so great in my head. Felt better on TRT.


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[anoxicblaze]

Just a quick update. Going to see a blood specialist at the hospital today. Worth noting that my blood thickness did not return to normal after quitting TRT.


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