Update on Resveratrol

[Property of Steroid.com]

Anthony Dont Worry about it Bro. Fruns has a habit of barging in into threads being argumentive providing no useful information to the orginial poster. 23 useless posts and counting. Welcome to AR I know we need the post whore count to go up. Im sure you will be useful there.

I've been a member since ...well, a long time...one of the longest standing members to stil post. I never outgrew the site, and talk to the owner weekly, and honestly...he's one of my best friends now. I was a mod here before all of them (except one or two)....seriously, that should count for something, I think.

I'm the only past mod who wasn't retired against their wishes who still posts.

[Swifto]

I suppose you're right. My sales increase monthly, for everything I produce.

Give it a rest. You're a "monitor" on steroid.com. Don't get it twisted...you don't even have any powers on the site...you have to report people to get something done. I was a Mod, and left that position because it's beneath me...you'll never even make it that far. Give it a rest.

So that makes you better than me. Because you were a Mod and I'm not. And...At this moment in time and for the past year or so...Dont want to be a Mod or anything higher. Your remarks are childish at that.

I'm happy Monitoring and giving advice for free.

It seems your putting the whole Monitor postiton down, "...you don't even have any powers on the site...you have to report people to get something done...".

Your a normal member now, so I'm correct in saying you'de have to report to get something done, right? So whats your point?

"I was a Mod, and left that position because it's beneath me..."

So you'de be higher than all Mods here? I've heard this before. It was when SwoleCat put you back in your place and off your high horse.

Give what a rest?

[Swifto]

I've been a member since ...well, a long time...one of the longest standing members to stil post. I never outgrew the site, and talk to the owner weekly, and honestly...he's one of my best friends now. I was a mod here before all of them (except one or two)....seriously, that should count for something, I think.

I'm the only past mod who wasn't retired against their wishes who still posts.

Actually, you wernt a Mod when I joined here. I remember when "Hooker" joined here and you had the number of posts I could count on one hand.

Here comes the Brians my best mate tactic.

[Adam F]

Make that 24 useless post 76 away from a source check keep posting. Anyone that suggest taking 1G of DNP is a retard. My last post regarding you. Have a good day Fruns.

[marcus300]

Haven't gotten bloodwork from anyone. People seem to like the products a lot, though, from feedback I've gotten.

However, there's several studies speculating about how resveratrol works, both of which I had access to prior to coming out with the CyoGenX product. One is called "Resveratrol: A Preconditioning Agent" (from UCONN) and the other is called "Relationship Mechanisms, Bioavailability, and preclinical chemopreventitive efficiency: A conundrum".

Neither dispute the efficacy of Resveratrol (as that's not really an issue in the scientific community), but rather, they speculate on how it works so well.

Anthony I was recently reading some studies someone sent to me regarding this Resveratrol and they make very interesting reading, it does look like its pretty useless at the dose you have in your product and also there are claims it doesnt even reach the blood stream, I will highlight the important bits for you.



EBSCO CAM Medical Review Board-

You may have heard of the "French paradox." The French diet is very high in saturated fat and cholesterol (just think of pate de fois gras and croissants), yet France has one of the world's lowest rates of heart disease. One theory for this apparent discrepancy is that another major player in the French diet—red wine—protects the arteries of the heart. (Another possibility, perhaps even more likely, is that cutting down on saturated fat is less harmful than previously thought. See the high cholesterol article for more information.)
Resveratrol is a natural antioxidant found in red wine. Antioxidants protect cells in the body from damage by free radicals, naturally occurring but harmful substances that are thought to play a role in cardiovascular disease . Resveratrol is also a phytoestrogen, a substance that mimics some of the effects of estrogen, while blocking others. Soy , another phytoestrogen, is thought to help prevent heart disease as well as cancer, and resveratrol might have similar effects. However, as yet none of these potential benefits of resveratrol have been documented in any meaningful way, and there is some evidence that resveratrol taken by mouth is broken down before it enters the bloodstream.

Sources
Resveratrol is not an essential nutrient. It is found in red wine as well as in red grape skins and seeds and purple grape juice. Peanuts also contain a small amount of resveratrol. Resveratrol supplements are available as well.


Therapeutic Dosages
Because there havent been any clinical studies, the optimal therapeutic dosage hasnt been established for resveratrol. Based on animal studies, a reasonable therapeutic dosage of resveratrol might be about 500 mg daily.

Therapeutic Uses
Very preliminary evidence such as the results of test tube studies suggests that resveratrol may help prevent heart disease , 2–5 and cancer . 9–14 However, not all studies have been favorable. 6,7,8,15 Furthermore, there is some evidence that resveratrol is immediately broken down by the human liver, and thereby does not in fact enter the blood stream at any significant level. 16 In any case, only double-blind studies can prove a treatment effective, and none have been reported with resveratrol. (For information on why such studies are essential, see Why Does This Database Rely on Double-Blind Studies? )


Safety Issues
Resveratrol has a chemical structure similar to that of the synthetic estrogenic hormone diethylstilbestrol and it has estrogenic effects. According to one study, it might stimulate the growth of breast cancer cells. 15 For this reason, resveratrol should be avoided by women who have had breast cancer or are at high risk of developing it. Maximum safe dosages for children, pregnant or nursing women, or those with severe liver or kidney disease have not been determined.

1. Gehm **, McAndrews JM, Chien PY, et al. Resveratrol, a polyphenolic compound found in grapes and wine, is an agonist for the estrogen receptor. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A . 1997;94:14138–14143.
2. Goldberg DM. More on antioxidant activity of resveratrol in red wine [letter]. Clin Chem . 1996;42:113–114.

3. Siemann EH, Creasy LL. Concentration of the phytoalexin resveratrol in wine. Am J Enol Vitic. 1992;43:49–52.

4. Kopp P. Resveratrol, a phytoestrogen found in red wine. A possible explanation for the conundrum of the ‘French paradox’? Eur J Endocrinol . 1998;138:619–620.

5. Rotondo S, Rajtar G, Manarini S, et al. Effect of trans-resveratrol, a natural polyphenolic compound, on human polymorphonuclear leukocyte function. Br J Pharmacol . 1998;123:1691–1699.

6. Turrens JF, Lariccia J, Nair MG. Resveratrol has no effect on lipoprotein profile and does not prevent peroxidation of serum lipids in normal rats. Free Radic Res . 1997;27:557–562.

7. Pace-Asciak CR, Rounova O, Hahn SE, et al. Wines and grape juices as modulators of platelet aggregation in healthy human subjects. Clin Chim Acta. 1996;246:163–182.

8. Wilson T, Knight TJ, Beitz DC, et al. Resveratrol promotes atherosclerosis in hypercholesterolemic rabbits. Life Sci . 1996;59:PL15–PL21.

9. Jang M, Cai L, Udeani GO, et al. Cancer chemopreventive activity of resveratrol, a natural product derived from grapes. Science . 1997;275:218–220.

10. Mgbonyebi OP, Russo J, Russo IH. Antiproliferative effect of synthetic resveratrol on human breast epithelial cells. Int J Oncol . 1998;12:865–869.

11. Subbaramaiah K, Chung WJ, Michaluart P, et al. Resveratrol inhibits cyclooxygenase-2 transcription and activity in phorbol ester-treated human mammary epithelial cells. J Biol Chem . 1998;273:21875–21882..

12. Clement MV, Hirpara JL, Chawdhury SH, et al. Chemopreventive agent resveratrol, a natural product derived from grapes, triggers CD95 signaling-***endent apoptosis in human tumor cells. Blood . 1998;92:996–1002.

13. Johnson JL, Maddipati KR. Paradoxical effects of resveratrol on the two prostaglandin H synthases. Prostaglandins Other Lipid Mediat . 1998;56:131–143.

14. ElAttar TM, Virji AS. Modulating effect of resveratrol and quercetin on oral cancer cell growth and proliferation. Anticancer Drugs. 1999;10:187–193.

15. Gehm **, McAndrews JM, Chien PY, et al. Resveratrol, a polyphenolic compound found in grapes and wine, is an agonist for the estrogen receptor. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A . 1997;94:14138–14143.

16. Walle T, Hsieh F, DeLegge MH et al. High absorption but very low bioavailability of oral resveratrol in humans. Drug Metab Dispos . 2004;32:1377-82.

Another interesting read and study-

Dr. Thomas Walle of the Medical University of South Carolina led a study which found that oral dietary supplements of resveratrol are unlikely to have any effect on breast and prostate cancer.

The study monitored blood levels of resveratrol following both oral and intravenous administration. No free resveratrol was present in blood samples drawn after oral doses; urine contained resveratrol only as sulfate and glucuronic acid conjugates, none as the free, presumably active, form. The only blood samples containing free resveratrol were those drawn within 30 minutes following the intravenous injection.

Based on these results, Dr. Walle said it is highly unlikely that resveratrol per se can have any effect on organs like the breast or prostate gland. He also said that further study could be done to see if orally administered resveratrol could prevent cancers along the aerodigestive tract, and to see if the resveratrol sulfate conjugate detected in circulating blood may exert the preventive activities claimed for resveratrol.

(Source: Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, 4/19/2004;
Article: presented at Experimental Biology 2004, as part of the scientific sessions of the American Society of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.)




PRITIKIN LONGEVITY CENTRE -
In the latest research, scientists reported that overweight, middle-aged mice whose high-calorie, high-fat diet was supplemented by resveratrol had better health and lived longer than chubby counterparts who did not receive it. Resveratrol is a compound found in common foods like grapes, red wine, and nuts.

The study, funded in part by the National Institute on Aging (NIA) of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), concluded that resveratrol appeared to lower the rate of diabetes, liver problems, and other fat-related ill effects in obese mice.

But don’t rush out and buy red wine or resveratrol supplements yet, cautions registered dietitian Jeffrey Novick. "The jury is still out, way out.”

For starters, the mice were fed massive doses of resveratrol – 24 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. “Red wine has about 1.5 to 3 milligrams of resveratrol per liter, so a 150-pound person would need to guzzle 750 to 1,500 bottles of red wine a day to get such a dose. Well,” Jeff jokes, “if it didn’t extend your life, you’d be so drunk you wouldn’t really care.”

Pills of resveratrol would require huge doses as well. “Many supplements have about 20 milligrams. The amount used in the study was the equivalent of giving a 150-pound man 1,636 milligrams, which would be about 80 pills a day,” notes Jeff.

Megadoses are scary because everything, even nutrients, is potentially toxic ***ending on the dose. That’s why the old saying “the dose makes the poison” is so true. Beta carotene is a beneficial chemical naturally occurring (in small amounts) in many fruits and vegetables, but massive doses in supplement form increased the risk of lung cancer in smokers. Huge doses of vitamin E increased the risk of heart problems in heart patients.

Indeed, in an NIH press statement, the authors of the resveratrol study cautioned that “we still have much to learn about resveratrol’s safety and effectiveness in humans.”

Some negative side effects are already known, emphasized one of the study’s authors, Rafael de Cabo, PhD, at NIH. Animal studies have shown that high doses of resveratrol affect blood platelets, which could increase the risk of bleeding when taken with anticoagulant, anti-platelet, or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.

Bottom line:
There are no long-term studies on humans yet, so why take a chance? In huge doses, resveratrol is no longer a natural compound. It’s a drug. We have no idea what the side effects of taking it are. Resveratrol, like beta carotene and vitamin E, may turn out to cause more harm than good.

What to do:
Don’t get star-struck by the latest “miracle” or “super” food or nutrient that gets promoted in the media.

“Me?” smiles Jeff Novick. “I’m going to keep eating my favorite foods – fresh fruits and veggies – and plenty of grapes, the natural and healthy source of resveratol. Fresh fruits and veggies don’t make the morning paper’s headlines, but they do provide an abundance of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and phytochemicals proven to help us live longer, healthier lives.

“No single ingredient, resveratol included, can duplicate the nutritional riches – and rewards – of a healthful diet.

[Property of Steroid.com]

I
Goose4 and Taiboxa have both done it, I'm sure there are others....you know better than them huh?

We should probably see pics of the people involved, I think, in order to see whose protocol is most beneficial.

As for myself...i don't bodybuild..but have a pretty distinguished athletic career (national all-star games, etc..)...

I don't know what any of those guys looks like...but if we're talking about fat loss via DNP, they should post pics to show how well their protocol works.

Again, as for me, I prefer a more "mainstream" look...and I've modeled for Polo Sport as well as Tommy Hillfiger (pics have already been posted)...so I assume that's proof enough that I've attained that look. Lets see some pics of people who have run a gram of DNP, and see how ripped they are.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Anthony I was recently reading some studies someone sent to me regarding this Resveratrol and they make very interesting reading, it does look like its pretty useless at the dose you have in your product and also there are claims it doesnt even reach the blood stream, I will highlight the important bits for you.

So how does it work? There isn't much debate on that. If it doesn't reach the bloodstream, then how does it work? None of what was posted says that it doesn't work....not if you read the full studies. Also,..the theraputic dosage...is roughly what a man would get from a full day of my product, if you read the studies. Theraputic dose...that phrase...seems to indicate that it works, right?

Also....since Biotest produces a Resveratrol product, you should probably post your queries on T - Nation as well, since I think Cy Wilson (one of my colleagues) likely should be able to answer these questions better than myself. That, if you forgot, is tha first site to expost Paul Borreson as a fraud (none of the degrees or credentials he claimed)...by the staff.

[marcus300]

So how does it work? There isn't much debate on that. If it doesn't reach the bloodstream, then how does it work?

Also....since Biotest produces a Resveratrol product, you should probably post your queries on T - Nation as well, since I think Cy Wilson (one of my colleagues) likely should be able to answer these questions better than myself.

Yes I thought you couldnt answer them, it does make interesting reading that it doesnt even reach the blood stream and also that taken in oral form is useless and if you wanted to see any benefits from it it would alot highter around 500mg if I am right, and your supp as 50mg if I read right.

I know you would never admit its useless but the studies do show it.

I might take you up on the offer and post it on t nation. might see you over there,

Thanks for the offer

[Property of Steroid.com]

Yes I thought you couldnt answer them, it does make interesting reading that it doesnt even reach the blood stream and also that taken in oral form is useless and if you wanted to see any benefits from it it would alot highter around 500mg if I am right, and your supp as 50mg if I read right.

I know you would never admit its useless but the studies do show it.

I might take you up on the offer and post it on t nation. might see you over there,

Thanks for the offer

Weird...your "notes" and "citations" are not properly annotated. They don't tell you anything about what they support in your claims. That's ok though. You aren't a professional in this industru, and shouldn't be held to the standards the rest of us are.


No you're not reading it right. You should take some remedial courses in reading I suppose.

I've answered them already. I've cited studies in this very thread which answers them.

However, since this is only one ingredient in my product, and Cy has put out a whole product with Biotest which is just this very ingredient, I bet he knows more about it than me.

I also think that your queries would be better suited to that site than this one. Just my opinion.

You should read the articles on PB on T - Nation, though. The expose him as the loser/druggie/fraud he was before his OD. They're written by the staff, by the way...people who put a name to their articles ,and not just internet-forum-losers who post anonymously.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Anthony I was recently reading some studies someone sent to me regarding this Resveratrol and they make very interesting reading, it does look like its pretty useless at the dose you have in your product and also there are claims it doesnt even reach the blood stream, I will highlight the important bits for you.

Therapeutic Dosages
Because there havent been any clinical studies, the optimal therapeutic dosage hasnt been established for resveratrol. Based on animal studies, a reasonable therapeutic dosage of resveratrol might be about 500 mg daily.

Therapeutic Uses
Very preliminary evidence such as the results of test tube studies suggests that resveratrol may help prevent heart disease , 2–5 and cancer . 9–14 However, not all studies have been favorable. 6,7,8,15 Furthermore, there is some evidence that resveratrol is immediately broken down by the human liver, and thereby does not in fact enter the blood stream at any significant level. 16 In any case, only double-blind studies can prove a treatment effective, and none have been reported with resveratrol. (For information on why such studies are essential, see Why Does This Database Rely on Double-Blind Studies? )

I've noticed that you said that resveratrol doesn't work, then you quote studies which mention a theraputic dose. If it doesn't do anything, then what does a theraputic dose provide therapy for?

Also...the theraputic dose you cite is 500mgs...my max dose for a man using CyoGenX is 450mgs, according to the product info. Seems like I've read the info before, huh?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pfac/cyo.html

It's available for well under $30 bucks now at BB.com.

Enjoy

[marcus300]

Weird...your "notes" and "citations" are not properly annotated. They don't tell you anything about what they support in your claims. That's ok though. You aren't a professional in this industru, and shouldn't be held to the standards the rest of us are.


No you're not reading it right. You should take some remedial courses in reading I suppose.

I've answered them already. I've cited studies in this very thread which answers them.

However, since this is only one ingredient in my product, and Cy has put out a whole product with Biotest which is just this very ingredient, I bet he knows more about it than me.

I also think that your queries would be better suited to that site than this one. Just my opinion.

You should read the articles on PB on T - Nation, though. The expose him as the loser/druggie/fraud he was before his OD. They're written by the staff, by the way...people who put a name to their articles ,and not just internet-forum-losers who post anonymously.

I would read the studies again what I posted especailly the bits in bold, it looks like you didnt read them correctly.I just want to draw your attention to them because in the future you may not to include this in your product.I wasnt to sure if you didnt read them when researching it.

I wouldnt expect anything else form you than to fully dismiss the studies and go on about something else.

One thing is there are studies by professionals so I would rather believe them than someone who is in total denial about the ingredient.


some quotes from the study -

The study monitored blood levels of resveratrol following both oral and intravenous administration. No free resveratrol was present in blood samples drawn after oral doses

Pills of resveratrol would require huge doses as well. “Many supplements have about 20 milligrams. The amount used in the study was the equivalent of giving a 150-pound man 1,636 milligrams, which would be about 80 pills a day

still have much to learn about resveratrol’s safety and effectiveness in humans

Some negative side effects are already known, emphasized one of the study’s authors, Rafael de Cabo, PhD, at NIH. Animal studies have shown that high doses of resveratrol affect blood platelets, which could increase the risk of bleeding when taken with anticoagulant, anti-platelet, or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs

Some negative side effects are already known, emphasized one of the study’s authors, Rafael de Cabo, PhD, at NIH. Animal studies have shown that high doses of resveratrol affect blood platelets, which could increase the risk of bleeding when taken with anticoagulant, anti-platelet, or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs

[Property of Steroid.com]

I would read the studies again what I posted especailly the bits in bold, it looks like you didnt read them correctly.I just want to draw your attention to them because in the future you may not to include this in your product.I wasnt to sure if you didnt read them when researching it.

I wouldnt expect anything else form you than to fully dismiss the studies and go on about something else.

One thing is there are studies by professionals so I would rather believe them than someone who is in total denial about the ingredient.


]

Again, you've misread what is being said, and have apparently dismissed all the other literature on the subject. However, as you aren't a professional in this industry or any related industry, that's understandable.

You should probably write an article refuting all of my claims, and get it published through a major site or magazine, and then I can respond. This way, it will be more widely circulated and profitable for both of us, and we can engage this topic on even footing.

I look forward to it.

Thanks.

[marcus300]

Again, you've misread what is being said, and have apparently dismissed all the other literature on the subject. However, as you aren't a professional in this industry or any related industry, that's understandable.

You should probably write an article refuting all of my claims, and get it published through a major site or magazine, and then I can respond. This way, it will be more widely circulated and profitable for both of us, and we can engage this topic on even footing.

I look forward to it.

Thanks.

I am sorry Athony but you have no idea who I am or what I do so I am afraid you cant comment on me in that way.

The studies do alarm me alot and I am sure many other bodybuilders who can clearly read the articles for themsleves.

Thankyou so much for the offer for making money but I will have to decline it, I am not interested in making any money from ppl.

I hope ive helped you in some way with the future research or re-designing your product.

All the best

[Swifto]

Again, you've misread what is being said, and have apparently dismissed all the other literature on the subject. However, as you aren't a professional in this industry or any related industry, that's understandable.
You should probably write an article refuting all of my claims, and get it published through a major site or magazine, and then I can respond. This way, it will be more widely circulated and profitable for both of us, and we can engage this topic on even footing.

I look forward to it.

Thanks.

Stop going on about being a professional. Your not. You dont have any qualifications in "the industry", as you keep putting it. Your an author of one, maybe 2 books on steroids and GH. There are plenty more authors, just like you, but dont claim to be "professionalls".

Infact, I'd rather take advice from an actual bodybuilder, than someone who's never bodybuilded in their life.

Then you start about Paul B as you have had this debate beforehand. Whats that got to do with Resveratrol? Not much. Its just your febal attempt to change the subject...Again... As you dont have the answers.

[Swifto]

Its pretty cut and dry.

I'll say it again. Believe Anthony Roberts, or whatever your alias is nowadays. Someone who claims to be, in it for the money. Or scientists writing articles who specialise in this subject and various studies. Members of society that ARE "professionalls".

[Property of Steroid.com]

St

Infact, I'd rather take advice from an actual bodybuilder, than someone who's never bodybuilded in their life.

Good thing I don't write about bodybuilding.

[Property of Steroid.com]

I hope ive helped you in some way with the future research or re-designing your product.

All the best

Not really.

[wanescotting]

Uh, why doesn't someone get a blood test, try the product for a month, and then get another blood test at the end of the trial period?

That being said, I do appreciate a good ole' fashioned debate..........

[Property of Steroid.com]

Uh, why doesn't someone get a blood test, try the product for a month, and then get another blood test at the end of the trial period?

That being said, I do appreciate a good ole' fashioned debate..........

That probably won't work with Cyo, to test estrogen suppression. See, if it primarily acts as a SERM, with weak AI properties, it's possible that the test elevation will keep estrogen levels the same, though unable to exert their negative effects. Nolvadex increases estrogen levels, though we consider it an anti-estrogen. With Cyo, we really need to look at other stuff rather than estrogen suppression alone.

[vitor]

With Cyo, we really need to look at other stuff rather than estrogen suppression alone.

We can yust look at testosterone levels b/f and after...To se if it works...

Any anti-e should increase T-levels above normal levels, (ive had BW a few times to confirm this with some of the aroamatase inhibitors and serms..)

[Property of Steroid.com]

We can yust look at testosterone levels b/f and after...To se if it works...

Any anti-e should increase T-levels above normal levels, (ive had BW a few times to confirm this with some of the aroamatase inhibitors and serms..)

Correct. But that's not a great measure of an anti-e. Nolvadex increases test and is considered an anti-e....and yet it increases estrogen levels too.

We should actually look at different forms of Estrogen (Estradiol, etc...), HDL, LDL, Test, free test, and progesterone, I think. Maybe some other stuff too, to see what this is doing, exactly, and where dosing should be, ideally.

[K.Biz]

Uhhh, anthony why cant I PM you?

[Property of Steroid.com]

Because my PMs are turned off. They're basically disabled everywhere. Drop me an e-mail.

[K.Biz]

Because my PMs are turned off. They're basically disabled everywhere. Drop me an e-mail.

ohh aight, sent


Also, I would like to add i am currently on cyogenx and taking 8 pills a day( 4, daily) and I have noticed reduction in my minor gyno, its almost completly gone, also it was very sensative to touch, it is now no longer sensative what so ever. I ran letro, and it worked great but when i tapered the dosages, i must not have done it long enough cause i exereinced the rebound effects. my nipples actully got puffyer. But now its almost gone. so somthing MUST be working. this kind of sh*t doesnt go away on its own.

[Property of Steroid.com]

ohh aight, sent


Also, I would like to add i am currently on cyogenx and taking 8 pills a day( 4, daily) and I have noticed reduction in my minor gyno, its almost completly gone, also it was very sensative to touch, it is now no longer sensative what so ever. I ran letro, and it worked great but when i tapered the dosages, i must not have done it long enough cause i exereinced the rebound effects. my nipples actully got puffyer. But now its almost gone. so somthing MUST be working. this kind of sh*t doesnt go away on its own.

Scientists compared one of the ingredients to Letro in it's ability to destroy gyno type symptoms...so...I mean...I figured it would get rid of gyno, I just didn't wanna come right out and say that before it worked for someone.

Glad to hear the results.

Also, I contacted some people in MA for you. I'll e-mail you back when I know who to refer you to .

[Swifto]

ohh aight, sent


Also, I would like to add i am currently on cyogenx and taking 8 pills a day( 4, daily) and I have noticed reduction in my minor gyno, its almost completly gone, also it was very sensative to touch, it is now no longer sensative what so ever. I ran letro, and it worked great but when i tapered the dosages, i must not have done it long enough cause i exereinced the rebound effects. my nipples actully got puffyer. But now its almost gone. so somthing MUST be working. this kind of sh*t doesnt go away on its own.

Thats very intresting indeed.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Thats very intresting indeed.

Not unexpected though. One of the first studies on Procyanidin claims that it can abrogate mammary tissue accrued to excess estrogen in a similar way to Letro.

[MrNice]

Letro never did that for me.

Is it the same pathway it works through?

[Property of Steroid.com]

Letro never did that for me.

Is it the same pathway it works through?

I suspect so.

I never said it'll get rid of gyno because I want to punch people in the throat when they produce a supplement and say shit like that, and then someone gets gyno, or wastes their $$ on it.

I really...I make conservative claims, I think, for my supps...I don't wanna mess anyone up, and I've already seen it happen when people push anti-E supps too hard.

[Swifto]

From what I've recently read on Avant Labs Forum (No its not a UGL and its probably the most intelligent board on the net), its bioavailability and oxidation are raised on more than one occassion.

Is the Resveratrol in CyoGenX the (polygonum cuspidatum) extract (root) version?

About the oxidation...

Its clear this is a big problem. Does CyoGenX contain gel caps? How does your supplement overcome this degradation by oxidation during its manufacturing process? If at all.

[Property of Steroid.com]

From what I've recently read on Avant Labs Forum (No its not a UGL and its probably the most intelligent board on the net), its bioavailability and oxidation are raised on more than one occassion.

Is the Resveratrol in CyoGenX the (polygonum cuspidatum) extract (root) version?

About the oxidation...

Its clear this is a big problem. Does CyoGenX contain gel caps? How does your supplement overcome this degradation by oxidation during its manufacturing process? If at all.

I don't really think too highly of the avant forums. They used to employ me as an author until I left, after only selling 3 books with a banner on their forums in 9 months, and once Beyond Steroids was published.

Anyway, as for "oxidation" you need to read some more studies. It's not a problem at all.

Resveratrol: Isomeric Molar Absorptivities and Stability

Brent C. Trela and Andrew L. Waterhouse*

***artment of Viticulture and Enology, University of California, Davis, California 95616

Received for review July 18, 1995. Revised manuscript received February 20, 1996. Accepted March 1, 1996.

Abstract:

Resveratrol has attracted interest as a wine constituent that may reduce heart disease. Published data on the molar absorptivity and chemical stability of cis- and trans-resveratrol have varied greatly. Accurate values for UV absorbance for trans-resveratrol [UV max (EtOH) nm () 308 (30 000)] and cis-resveratrol [UV max (EtOH) nm () 288 (12 600)] were determined and are used to improve chromatographic quantitation methods. Trials conducted under a variety of commonly encountered laboratory conditions show that trans-resveratrol is stable for months, except in high-pH buffers, when protected from light. cis-Resveratrol was stable only near pH neutrality when completely protected from light.

Journal of Medicinal Food
Resveratrol and Its Glycon Piceid Are Stable Polyphenols
Mar 2006, Vol. 9, No. 1 : 11 -14


Jiri Prokop, Interpharma Praha, a.s., Prague, Czech Republic.
Petr Abrman, Interpharma Praha, a.s., Prague, Czech Republic.
Allen L. Seligson, Biophysica Research, San Diego, La Jolla, California.
Milos Sovak, Biophysica Research and University of California, San Diego, California.

Plant extracts containing phytopolyphenols, including resveratrol, are extensively used as nutraceutical supplements. Recent reports allege their lack of stability at ambient conditions. We have studied the stability of resveratrol and its glycon piceid in a mixture with a whole grape extract for 2 years (long-term stability) under Good Manufacturing Practice pharmaceutical protocols (at 60% humidity and 25?C). The neat compounds were followed for 4 years under conditions of "accelerated stability," at 75% humidity and 40?C, all in the presence of ambient air. Chromatographic analysis did not detect any instability, thus disproving the claims to the opposite. No storage precautions are necessary for these nutritional supplements."