A measure of racism: 15 percent?

[BigLittleTim]

OH Carlos!

"I've never heard of Michaelangelo Signorile." Lah!

Google

-BigLittleTim

[Carlos_E]

OH Carlos!

"I've never heard of Michaelangelo Signorile." Lah!

Google

-BigLittleTim

Who is he and why should I pay attention to his opinion?

[Tock]

Who is he and why should I pay attention to his opinion?

I know who he is, but don't pay much attention to him.
----------------------------

http://www.signorile.com/

The Michelangelo Signorile Show can be heard 2-6 p.m ET (11-3 p.m. PT), weekdays across the United States and Canada (and 200 miles offshore) on Sirius Satellite Radio's channel 109, OutQ. You can get a trial run online at Sirius OutQ.

Michelangelo Signorile reports, comments, rants and madly obsesses about politics, media, popular culture and a host of other things that irk and interest him. He covers the gamut of issues, though he began his career--and is best known for--writing on gay politics and culture. Today Signorile hosts a lively four-hour radio program each weekday, on Sirius Satellite Radio. Four hours of his own brand of "conversion therapy -- converting people from that nasty, vicious, perverted and insane right-wing agenda to a more fun, fabulous and enlightened one."

--------

Quickie version

Michelangelo Signorile hosts a daily (2-6 ET) talk show on Sirius Satellite Radio's OutQ.

Signorile served as editor-at-large and columnist at The Advocate, and was a columnist for OUT magazine. He's authored several books and written for many publications, including The New York Times, USA Today, The New York Observer, Gay.com, New York Magazine, and the Village Voice. His third book, Life Outside, was a 1998 finalist for the New York Public Library's Book Award for Excellence in Journalism.

Signorile has reported from the floor of the Republican National Convention (three times!), and from the roof of the Vatican. He's hitched a ride with gay truckers barreling down the Wyoming highway, explored Italy's closeted gay underground, and visited with New Zealand's first transgendered member of Parliament. He's appeared on Larry King Live, Good Morning America, Today,Paula Zahn Now, The O'Reilly Factor, 60 Minutes, and other shows.

[Tock]

If you look at history and facts, you see that lowering taxes increases government revenue EVERY TIME, without question. Similarly, raising taxes always lowers revenue.

For example, if you raise the capital gains tax people are less likely to invest in ways that expose them to capital gains. Since there is less investment the government collects less, even though the rate itself is higher. If you lower the capital gains tax it encourages more people, more investment, more money which, in turn, creates more tax revenue.

Imagine if a gas station is selling gas for $4. They make 100 sales a day for $400. The place across the street is selling for $3, which attracts 200 sales a day. They make $600. It really is that simple.

The only problem is that the government is deep in debt, and every time they cut taxes, they borrow more $$$ and increase the National Debt.

Look at what this guy has to say (he's the recently retired head of the GSA--the US Comptroller) and tell me the US should cut taxes and borrow $$$:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QxoP_9W6FC8

[Carlos_E]

I know who he is, but don't pay much attention to him.
----------------------------

http://www.signorile.com/

The Michelangelo Signorile Show can be heard 2-6 p.m ET (11-3 p.m. PT), weekdays across the United States and Canada (and 200 miles offshore) on Sirius Satellite Radio's channel 109, OutQ. You can get a trial run online at Sirius OutQ.

Michelangelo Signorile reports, comments, rants and madly obsesses about politics, media, popular culture and a host of other things that irk and interest him. He covers the gamut of issues, though he began his career--and is best known for--writing on gay politics and culture. Today Signorile hosts a lively four-hour radio program each weekday, on Sirius Satellite Radio. Four hours of his own brand of "conversion therapy -- converting people from that nasty, vicious, perverted and insane right-wing agenda to a more fun, fabulous and enlightened one."

--------

Quickie version

Michelangelo Signorile hosts a daily (2-6 ET) talk show on Sirius Satellite Radio's OutQ.

Signorile served as editor-at-large and columnist at The Advocate, and was a columnist for OUT magazine. He's authored several books and written for many publications, including The New York Times, USA Today, The New York Observer, Gay.com, New York Magazine, and the Village Voice. His third book, Life Outside, was a 1998 finalist for the New York Public Library's Book Award for Excellence in Journalism.

Signorile has reported from the floor of the Republican National Convention (three times!), and from the roof of the Vatican. He's hitched a ride with gay truckers barreling down the Wyoming highway, explored Italy's closeted gay underground, and visited with New Zealand's first transgendered member of Parliament. He's appeared on Larry King Live, Good Morning America, Today,Paula Zahn Now, The O'Reilly Factor, 60 Minutes, and other shows.

Ahh, no wonder I've never heard of him. Like I said earlier, he's a white gay thing. I don't see him listed as writing for any Black gay media.

[SMCengineer]

The only problem is that the government is deep in debt, and every time they cut taxes, they borrow more $$$ and increase the National Debt.

Look at what this guy has to say (he's the recently retired head of the GSA--the US Comptroller) and tell me the US should cut taxes and borrow $$$:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QxoP_9W6FC8

Huh, if I didn't know better I'd say you're starting to sound like a Ron Paul supporter.

This is the issue we should be worried about.

[BigLittleTim]

Ahh, no wonder I've never heard of him. Like I said earlier, he's a white gay thing. I don't see him listed as writing for any Black gay media.

Divide and conquer... Divide and conquer....

"I can't vote for Obama: He's a black Protestant heterosexual thing."

Lah!
-BigLittleTim

[BigLittleTim]

Ahh, no wonder I've never heard of him. I don't see him listed as writing for any steroid boards.

[Tock]

Huh, if I didn't know better I'd say you're starting to sound like a Ron Paul supporter.

This is the issue we should be worried about.

Ya, I voted for him . . . it's the first time in 28 years I voted for a Republican, and I didn't feel very good about it. Sorta like dashing into a XXX bookstore for some adult reading literature, makes ya feel "dirty" . . .

I didn't expect him to place very well, since my vote tends to guarantee a candidate's last place showing. Next November, I'll vote for whichever Democrat wins the primary election. I doubt that will make much difference, since this is Texas, and Jesus Christ himself could run as a Democrat in this state and not win . . .

Texas is as RED a state as there is . . .

[SMCengineer]

Ya, I voted for him . . . it's the first time in 28 years I voted for a Republican, and I didn't feel very good about it. Sorta like dashing into a XXX bookstore for some adult reading literature, makes ya feel "dirty" . . .

I'm not gonna lie. I'm impressed.

[Act of God]

The only problem is that the government is deep in debt, and every time they cut taxes, they borrow more $$$ and increase the National Debt.

Look at what this guy has to say (he's the recently retired head of the GSA--the US Comptroller) and tell me the US should cut taxes and borrow $$$:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QxoP_9W6FC8

You do realize it is possible to cut taxes and DECREASE spending right?

[SMCengineer]

^^possible but not likely with any of the three candidates.

[Tock]

You do realize it is possible to cut taxes and DECREASE spending right?

Ya, like that's ever happened in the past, or ever will happen in the future.

First thing that needs a tax increase is gasoline. Right now the federal tax on a gallon of gasoline is about 20 cents. At $3.50 a gallon, that's only about 5.7% tax. That's not anywhere near enough to pay for the military effort it takes to keep foreign oil available to the USA, plus pay for research to find and produce a reliable substitute energy source. IMHO, the gas tax needs to be raised (over time) to 50% of the retail price, and a minimum of $1 a gallon, increasing over time with the rate of inflation. State taxes should be similarly raised to pay for roads, bridges, air pollution efforts, etc.

The increase in cost ought to result in wiser use of fuel, and reduce dependance on foreign oil, and raise $$$ to offset military expenses and etc. And the people who would pay would be the people who create the need for foreign military intervention and new fuel sources.

-------

And there's lots other things that need to paid for, like the National Debt, interest on the National Debt (there's no getting around paying that), and social programs, infrastructure, national security, etc etc etc. There's no way that cutting taxes would raise enough $$$ to pay for everything that needs to be paid -- at least until the USA learns how not to be the planet's policemen, pays off its debt, and figures out how to fund all the social programs we want.

The short answer to your question is, then, No. For practical reasons, it is not possible, in the current circumstances, to cut taxes and reduce spending.

[Kratos]

The gas tax is intended to pay for the interstate system. I want a battery powered car with 250 miles of range, I know someone can build it.

[Carlos_E]

Divide and conquer... Divide and conquer....

"I can't vote for Obama: He's a black Protestant heterosexual thing."

Lah!
-BigLittleTim

Divide and conquer my ass. The advocate and Out magazine are both known in the Black gay community as not fairly representing "us." Take a count of the number of Blacks that make the cover. The magazines are geared toward the White gay community, not all of us.

[BigLittleTim]

Carlos,

I'm sorry you're so angry about this.
If Obama is the chosen Democratic nominee I will vote for him for president. President McCain and Vice President Romney for the next eight years would be a true disaster.

Yours,

BigLittleTim

[Carlos_E]

Carlos,

I'm sorry you're so angry about this.

Your "Divide and conquer" comment annoyed me. White gays tend not to notice that gay media focuses more towards the White gay community. You can see it in advertising. Take a look at some of the ads. If you see an ad with couples the only time you see a minority is when it's a mixed race couple. White/Black, White/Asian, White/Latin like you have to throw a White person in there for the ad to run. Or take a look at the Out's 100 Most influential people in gay culture list.

[Tock]

The advocate and Out magazine are both known in the Black gay community as not fairly representing "us." Take a count of the number of Blacks that make the cover. The magazines are geared toward the White gay community, not all of us.

I've noticed that, too.

Here in Dallas, there seems to be a gay community which is 99% white. Clubs are mostly segregated, too. Also, since I moved here from Massachusetts, I noticed that a lot of white gays (white heterosexuals, too) native to Texas have odd attitudes toward blacks (and non-whites in general).

Racism is everywhere . . . ugh . . .

[Act of God]

I'd assume that it is only natural to have more white people in ads and such considering this country is overwhelmingly white (74%). Homosexual advertising aside, non-whites are severely OVER represented in ads. Do you honestly believe that latinos, asians and blacks are left out of traditional advertising? Hell, you can't see a single commercial without it these days.

Interesting side note: If there is ever an ad where there is a black guy and a white guy arguing over something (which phone service to use, ISP, car) the black guy is ALWAYS right in the argument and the white guy is usually stupid in a funny way. Verizon and cablevision are notorious for these ads.

You can't get angry at an accurate representation, right? Out of every 100 people shown in ads it wouldn't be improper if 74 of them were white. There would only be 12-14 blacks in that same group.

Is there a discrepancy in the gay community, numbers-wise? I am definitely uninformed to the subject, but I would guess that the % of gays is more or less the same across race/ethnicity.

[BgMc31]

^^your second paragraph is absurd. Please provide proof of that. I work in advertising and have yet to see such an outrageous claim.

Advertising is disproportionately slanted toward whites and at a level much higher than 74%. As a matter of fact, insider industry standards is closer to 85% toward white, medium income, married people.

[thegodfather]

^^your second paragraph is absurd. Please provide proof of that. I work in advertising and have yet to see such an outrageous claim.

Advertising is disproportionately slanted toward whites and at a level much higher than 74%. As a matter of fact, insider industry standards is closer to 85% toward white, medium income, married people.

Isn't the whole point of advertising and marketing to target a specific buyer? If there is a commercial geared towards white, medium income, married people...Then one would assume that is the buyer the company is trying to target??... Jeez, people will take ANYTHING they possibly can and make it racial... Do you know why the windows are so big on public transportation? To further subjugate people of color and humiliate them for having to ride public transportation (EXTREME SARCASM!)...

[Act of God]

^^your second paragraph is absurd. Please provide proof of that. I work in advertising and have yet to see such an outrageous claim.

Advertising is disproportionately slanted toward whites and at a level much higher than 74%. As a matter of fact, insider industry standards is closer to 85% toward white, medium income, married people.

Oh it's true, I pay very close attention to these things. The one Verizon commercial that sticks in my head was the two guys running a small business debating on which ISP to use while tossing a football back and forth. The white guy is totally clueless and the black guy is schooling him. The white guy then decides all he cares about is pizza. They ran about 3 commercials like that in the past 2 years. Cablevision did the same stuff before their lame 877-353-4448888888 raggaeton commerical crap.

This doesn't apply only to white/black. Women have been the smarter person in just about every commercial for years. If you think this is unintentional, think again. These commercials are thoughtfully casted and every nuance is carefully planned.

Funny, but somewhat accurate:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....u=stock_photos

Secondly, advertisements are a product of something we refer to as marketing. Here, someone who is selling a product tries to get people who will buy that product's interest.

Do you see anyone complaining that black people are the focus of every commercial for McDonald's lately? This is the same bullcrap we had to listen to in the 90's when people would complain that there aren't any blacks on 90210.

I love your facts though. Wow, 74% versus 85%....how utterly RACIST of them! I don't know where you live but I can't turn on the television without seeing black people in just about every commercial or TV show. If anything, blacks are over represented in the media (television, music, sports, etc.).

[buttercup]

Jeez, people will take ANYTHING they possibly can and make it racial... Do you know why the windows are so big on public transportation? To further subjugate people of color and humiliate them for having to ride public transportation (EXTREME SARCASM!)...

that was ludacris' arguement in the movie "crash"

[BgMc31]

Oh it's true, I pay very close attention to these things. The one Verizon commercial that sticks in my head was the two guys running a small business debating on which ISP to use while tossing a football back and forth. The white guy is totally clueless and the black guy is schooling him. The white guy then decides all he cares about is pizza. They ran about 3 commercials like that in the past 2 years. Cablevision did the same stuff before their lame 877-353-4448888888 raggaeton commerical crap.

This doesn't apply only to white/black. Women have been the smarter person in just about every commercial for years. If you think this is unintentional, think again. These commercials are thoughtfully casted and every nuance is carefully planned.

Funny, but somewhat accurate:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....u=stock_photos

Secondly, advertisements are a product of something we refer to as marketing. Here, someone who is selling a product tries to get people who will buy that product's interest.

Do you see anyone complaining that black people are the focus of every commercial for McDonald's lately? This is the same bullcrap we had to listen to in the 90's when people would complain that there aren't any blacks on 90210.

I love your facts though. Wow, 74% versus 85%....how utterly RACIST of them! I don't know where you live but I can't turn on the television without seeing black people in just about every commercial or TV show. If anything, blacks are over represented in the media (television, music, sports, etc.).

You have zero credibility because you are basing your statements off of your perception which is contrary to statistics. And based on one Verizon commercial is assinine.

The goal of advertising to to reach a certain demographic, and usually the demographic that can generate the most revenue. During the 90's at one point (during the time of 90210), there was not one tv show on the major networks with a minority lead. And there were very few shows with minority primary characters. Racism was clearly the reason. Why do I say this? Well for almost 10 straight years the Cosby show and its follow up show 'Diffrent World' were the two top rated shows in the country. It wasn't until the advent of channels lik WB and others that we began to see larger minority representation. IMO, whites are over representated in media. You can't turn on the tv without seeing a white guy (now see how ridiculous that sounds?).

And lets not get started on minority involvement in sports...I would hate to have people's feelings hurt!

[Act of God]

You are so clueless, I don't even have the energy to deal with you. I'll take my statements based on things I have seen with my own two eyes over your hearsay, unbacked, assertions. I love how you are automatically an expert on every subject that pops up around here. You are truly a jack of all trades...

Racism was "clearly" why there were a lot of whites on TV? How about the fact that whites were almost 80% of the US population back then and blacks were around 12%. Think that had anything to do with it, or do you just want to keep believing we all have white sheets in the trunks of our cars "just in case, wink wink"?

Get over yourself, you are the reason there is a divide.

[Kratos]

lol at BgMc and Act of God
I'm gonna let you in on a secret bgmc and it's only cause I've been drinking...a lot. The white people aren't telling anybody this cause it's better if Black people stay scared. Man are they gonna be pissed with me...
White people don't give a fvck about keeping black people down. Black people are like man life sucks and we're like yeah sucks for me too. I can speak for at least my generation, I just don't see black people and what they are doing coming up in conversation and how we can keep them out of corperate America. If ad exec's run an ad with a certain cast, it's cause they think that cast will give the best return on investment for their client. If you don't see the Wayne's Bros. on NBC prime time don't blame the NBC exec., they just want to score a hit and get the best ratings they can. When The Cosby Show was hot it was on TV cause it was an F-ing good show, my parents let me stay up when it was on...that might show my parents generation wasn't too bad either, but I can't speak for them. Who do you think was driving those ratings? Black people have always had less and a tough history in this country I don't deny. So, back to the campaign why you can't deny that race is going to sway some percentage of black voters.

I had a teacher in middle school, my health teacher, a black guy "I bet it would be a problem for people in you're neighborhood if a black family moved in." I'm thinking "yeah dumbass that's exactly what people in my neigborhood think about, how to keep black people out." This was in class. I said, "I can't see people having a problem with it." He didn't believe me.

[BgMc31]

You are so clueless, I don't even have the energy to deal with you. I'll take my statements based on things I have seen with my own two eyes over your hearsay, unbacked, assertions. I love how you are automatically an expert on every subject that pops up around here. You are truly a jack of all trades...

Racism was "clearly" why there were a lot of whites on TV? How about the fact that whites were almost 80% of the US population back then and blacks were around 12%. Think that had anything to do with it, or do you just want to keep believing we all have white sheets in the trunks of our cars "just in case, wink wink"?

Get over yourself, you are the reason there is a divide.

Hahahahaha at your clueless comment. There are three things I consider myself nearly an expert on, football, strongman, and media marketing. The two athletic pursuits is because I competed at a high level for both (still do for strongman, retired from football in 02). The last thing, media marketing, I actually wrote my masters thesis on minority representation in the media in 07. Its my job as a media marketing executive for a major strip casino chain here in Vegas to know the business. So debating wth a racism denier that has seen shit with his 'own two eyes' so that makes him an expert is laughable at best. I once saw David Copperfield at a show here, make an elephant disappear, but that doesn't really make it so.

I'm the reason for the divide........hahahahaha! That's equally absurd! I'm the product of a mixed race family. And my wife is Hawaiian and white. So I'm not divding shit. I'm bringing races together in the best way possible...DNA BABY!

You are the clueless one brotha so yeah it doesn't make much sense to debate you. Until you and others like you (not all whites) stop denying that racism is a major factor in this country, we will never get past it.

Kratos, you hit the nail on the head! Whites don't care about blacks (as do black don't care about whites). Each group tends to only care more about their own (human nature). that is why this racism thing will never end. Unless we mix the races completely. And I'm well on my way to doing that! LoL!

[Act of God]

Hahahahaha at your clueless comment. There are three things I consider myself nearly an expert on, football, strongman, and media marketing. The two athletic pursuits is because I competed at a high level for both (still do for strongman, retired from football in 02). The last thing, media marketing, I actually wrote my masters thesis on minority representation in the media in 07. Its my job as a media marketing executive for a major strip casino chain here in Vegas to know the business. So debating wth a racism denier that has seen shit with his 'own two eyes' so that makes him an expert is laughable at best. I once saw David Copperfield at a show here, make an elephant disappear, but that doesn't really make it so.

I'm the reason for the divide........hahahahaha! That's equally absurd! I'm the product of a mixed race family. And my wife is Hawaiian and white. So I'm not divding shit. I'm bringing races together in the best way possible...DNA BABY!

You are the clueless one brotha so yeah it doesn't make much sense to debate you. Until you and others like you (not all whites) stop denying that racism is a major factor in this country, we will never get past it.

Kratos, you hit the nail on the head! Whites don't care about blacks (as do black don't care about whites). Each group tends to only care more about their own (human nature). that is why this racism thing will never end. Unless we mix the races completely. And I'm well on my way to doing that! LoL!

I disagree. I think you look to make race an issue every time you have a chance. I'm not surprised in the least that you even did your thesis on it. What I find funny is how you are now trying to cultivate your mixed race status to gain credibility in the discussion when we all know how you identify yourself socially.

[BgMc31]

I disagree. I think you look to make race an issue every time you have a chance. I'm not surprised in the least that you even did your thesis on it. What I find funny is how you are now trying to cultivate your mixed race status to gain credibility in the discussion when we all know how you identify yourself socially.

Wasn't this thread about race? Find one thread that I interjected race when it wasn't part of the topic? You seem to grasping at straws AofG. Since you don't have a viable argument, you resort to a claiming that I'm playing the race card all the time. Not my fault that you refuse to see the obvious.

As far as using my mixed race to gain credibility...I didn't and you know it. You just bemoan the fact that my argument holds more weight than yours and you will look for any excuse to dimiss it. Its funny, really. And yes, I've never denied the fact that I identify, socially, as being black. Considering despite my mixed race, I am relatively dark skin. Society sees me as a black man (as do they about Barack Obama), so there is always the need to 'act accordingly' and debunct stereotypes. Since you are a firm believer in those stereotypes, obviously, who is truly the reason for the divide?

[kfrost06]

I just want to jump in for one second, I missed, I truely missed Tock vs. Logan threads but thankfully we have Act of G vs BgMc and they are just as good!

Thank both of you guys and keep up the debates, they are very good.

[RA]

The goal of advertising to to reach a certain demographic, and usually the demographic that can generate the most revenue. During the 90's at one point (during the time of 90210), there was not one tv show on the major networks with a minority lead. And there were very few shows with minority primary characters. Racism was clearly the reason. Why do I say this? Well for almost 10 straight years the Cosby show and its follow up show 'Diffrent World' were the two top rated shows in the country. It wasn't until the advent of channels lik WB and others that we began to see larger minority representation. IMO, whites are over representated in media. You can't turn on the tv without seeing a white guy (now see how ridiculous that sounds?).

And lets not get started on minority involvement in sports...I would hate to have people's feelings hurt!

Racism by who?

[Act of God]

Racism by who?

According to conspiracy brotha, marketing to the largest consumer group (actual amount of people AND spending dollars) is racist. Apparently big companies are so racist they don't even want the tainted dollars of colored folk. Hell, look how badly Cadillac is doing now. They'd rather starve then have black people buy their products...oh wait, that was Lauren Hill.

At least he isn't looking to find racism in everyday life, thank god!

[Kratos]

Kratos, you hit the nail on the head! Whites don't care about blacks (as do black don't care about whites). Each group tends to only care more about their own (human nature). that is why this racism thing will never end. Unless we mix the races completely. And I'm well on my way to doing that! LoL!

I don't like to talk about race as a white dude, cause it's so hard not to look like a racist. My little paragraph didn't make much sense because of too much vodka. I'll just tell you st8 up, you precieve more reacisim from whites than exisists in the real world. My human nature has had no conflict with how I see people.

[Kratos]

I watched 90210 because my sister and her hot friends were always over watching it.

[Act of God]

Was Race of Candidate Important to you
Blacks Who Say Yes: None

People are saying Blacks are voting for Obama because he's Black. It looks like the polling data doesn't support the accusation.

I just saw today that BO is 9/9 in states where the black population is over 17%. Can you really say it has NOTHING to do with it?

[Kratos]

I just saw today that BO is 9/9 in states where the black population is over 17%. Can you really say it has NOTHING to do with it?

Oh, this can of worms again. You know what you're gonna get, just scroll back. IDK, it will be interesting to see how it plays out anyway. A lot of white trash people and southern racists. Black people largely vote democrat, the ones trying to help a brother out may have more impact in the primary than actual election. Clinton and Obama are both shooting the democrats in the foot by waging war within the party so long. I expect McCain will win and then promptly die sitting in the oval office.

[Act of God]

Oh, this can of worms again. You know what you're gonna get, just scroll back. IDK, it will be interesting to see how it plays out anyway. A lot of white trash people and southern racists. Black people largely vote democrat, the ones trying to help a brother out may have more impact in the primary than actual election. Clinton and Obama are both shooting the democrats in the foot by waging war within the party so long. I expect McCain will win and then promptly die sitting in the oval office.

I just can't believe that anyone can take those "0% of blacks said race was a factor" polls seriously. It is simply laughable, that's all. I just want people to be honest.

[Carlos_E]

Qoutes

I don't understand why this facet of the race is not focused on as much as Obama's struggles with rural, lower-income whites. No Democrat can win the White House without black votes - and a lot of them. And yet, Clinton has gone backwards fast in this segment for the past three months. Remember last fall when she had a massive 20 or even 30 point lead among African-Americans? Remember when the Clinton brand was almost synonymous with major black support? And while Obama has done solidly - and increasingly well - among white voters, Clinton's black support has cratered. Judging from my email in-tray, black voters are actually incensed and deeply disillusioned by the tactics of both Clintons. Bill has gone from being viewed as the first black president to being persona non grata and playing up his white Bubba act in rural counties.
This is a fatal weakness in a Democratic candidate. And Hillary Clinton is now a fatally wounded politician.

[Carlos_E]

More quotes

Here's what now seems obvious: African-American voters killed the Clinton candidacy. It is a fitting end to the Clintons' campaign and an almost Shakespearean coda to their career. The Clintons were exposed in their long-running exploitation and reliance on minority votes. No group was more loyal to them than African-Americans; and in the end, like everyone else, African-Americans realized that the Clintons are frauds, disloyal to the core, cynical to their finger-tips, and finally, finally, returned the favor. A reader writes:

I found it striking that Clinton did not even pretend to be courting African Americans in North Carolina. Had the tables somehow been turned and had Obama's soul been implanted in her body, he would have made a show of at least organizing one major African American outreach event there or in Indiana. Obama went bowling in Altoona, after all. I kept expecting Hillary, ever since South Carolina, and certainly since Louisiana, to give her own major speech on race to a black audience in which she expressed sincere regret for Bill Clinton's Jesse Jackson and related comments by her surrogates. She could have done that while still stressing that her and Bill's mistakes were innocent in their intent, but that she is someone who looks not only at intentions but effects and regrets the rift.

Instead, she let Ferrarro rub salt in the wound. Don't get me wrong. Obama is such a talented candidate and such a symbol of hope to African Americans that he was going to get 80% of the black vote no matter what. But 92% and even higher than that in Gary! She got numbers in the past few states worse than Nixon and worse than Reagan.

After what the Clintons did in this campaign, and what they've revealed about themselves, and their alliance with Fox News and Bill Kristol and Pat Buchanan, this couldn't be more appropriate.

This will be history's verdict: in the end, the Clintons were defeated not by Republicans, but by African-American Democrats. How wonderful. How poignant. In the end, the karma gets you. Maybe it had to be this way. But this final coup de grace against these awful, hollow, cynical people is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

[Carlos_E]

More

Just now, on this morning's HRC conference call, Geoff Garin had this spin regarding the campaign's North Carolina 14 point loss: "We lost the white electorate in Virginia, started even in North Carolina among the white electorate just two weeks ago, and ended [with] a very significant win of 24 points among those voters." He called this shift -- you know, the white people deciding to vote for the white person -- "progress."

Right. Now, if only there was a way to make white votes count for more than the black ones...