Gay Marriage: support or oppose?

[Bojangles69]

Marriage is NOT a right.

If it was, I could marry my 13 year old neighbor.
And under your rights theory, gays have no more less or more 'rights' than the rest of us, to marry someone of the opposite sex.

So practically, you'd be requesting MORE rights for you than for heterosexuals. How does that make gays equal in that case?

[smokethedays]

i wouldn't wanna offend any one that is homosexual cause ihave friends who are besides the members on here.
But here is wt I think.

before arguing wheather homosexuals should "marry" into each other or not we should ask what is it to be married?

Marriage is just the official procedure of allowing 2 a male and a female to practice sex and produce while not called SINNERS. the church had to say yes before we can have sex with each other and produce children. Hence the word "bastard", other wise this word wouldn't exist. Because some shitty ass document created by a 30k/year clerck is going to make your sexual life with the other person "legal" in the eyes of God and a proof of leal issues for the govt.

So why do we marry?

we can have a GF/BF, live with them, still have children with them and not get struck by God for producing bastards.

Now since Homosexuals CANNOT produce children, why get married?

Let me turn that question around on you, Why are heterosexuals entitled to certain "perks" and rights and not homosexuals ?

Also

Are you saying that if a man/women is unable to produce children then they shouldn't get married ?


Just to feel equal to heterosexuals? now thats bullshit, excuse me.

Does that mean that Heteros should turn gays to be equal or something?

Why would they want to do that ? They would LOSE rights !

Also one annoying notion that is advocated for by homosexuals is that kids brought up by 2 daddys share the same bed unlike 99% of the society or what the kid really learn of TV or friends or sex ed. class are typical normal kids!!!

Never heard of this, where is this study , i'd like to see it .

Some people would say, that is why we have to educate the world!!! and to those I say, the world is bigger than you town buddy!!!

The world is accustomed to norms and traditions through out 1000's of years. and maybe you are the seed of a new change but do'nt argue that it is your right to destroy a childs life by making him the only kid in class with 2 daddys.

Already you have the perception that gay couple destroy children. Well let look at some data.

How many children are in foster-care right now ?

According to National Foster Care and Adoption Statistics http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/socwork/n...tatistics.html

* 510,000 = Number of children in foster care on September 30, 2006

* 129,000 = Number of children waiting to be adopted on September 30, 2006

* 51,000 = Number of children adopted from the public foster care system in FY 2006

That means that as of 2006 510,000 heterosexual parents FAILED to be a good parent. This doesn't included children that have ran away from home or children that have died by neglect by the parent.

Now Where is the data showing that homosexual parents are as bar or worse ? I want to see data and references to back it up.


Have a BF/GF that is your business but adopting innocent children and expose them issues way beyond the understanding of most adults is too harsh.
I don't blame you for thinking this way as its a general stereotype about gays. Although i do have to admit that when i read post like this i can't help but to think of you as uneducated. Not in general but when it comes to this subject. Listen, do some research then come back with a response.

Research what that 510k families of 350 million American failed, are you crazy, what is the number ratio here, grab a calculator man.

now answering your questions one by one:

Why do straight couples get these 'perks' as you call it. these are not perks sir. that is the problem, gays think of as a 'kool' thing to do appranently, a PERK, a family foundation to you is a PERK. now that way off.

I didnot say the sole reason for marriage is to produce ,I said beside that is is the religion's OK for 2 people to have sex and the govt. way to identify the relationship as official relationship. Think broader b4 you tell me to research, you cannot research logic sir, it is logic and it is wt it is until the entire society adopts a differnt norm which is in this case what gays are trying to accomplish, be equal.

you'd like to see what, how a kid in school is going to be looked at differently? are you serious? kids rip on each other for cloth style, hair style, cars, anything possibly just to be kool.
how about 2 daddys share the same bed in our todays society powered by our great media?

I didn't attack gays as you appranetly tryin to say and calling me uneducated about THIS. there is no education in this. it is totally social construction.
Let me ask you a question, don't you aree that the ENTIRE world is rules initially by religion? and govts use it to manipulate the ppl?
As long as the main three religions is what ppl on earth are being taught, gays are not going to be viewed as they wish. Now case is closed.

[DSM4Life]

Little more food for thought :

Question: How Many Children Have Gay Parents in the US?

Answer:

# There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976.
# In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have a gay or lesbian parent.
# Between 8 and 10 million children are being raised in a gay and lesbian households.

Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:

* An estimated two million GLB people are interested in adopting.
* An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
* More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
* Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.
* Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

SOURCE:

Adoption and Foster Care by Lesbian and Gay Parents in the United States, Author(s): Gary Gates, Lee M.V. Badgett, Jennifer Ehrle Macomber, Kate Chambers of the Urban Institute.

Looks like we are trying to clean up "your" mess

[DSM4Life]

]Marriage is NOT a right.

If it was, I could marry my 13 year old neighbor.[/B]
And under your rights theory, gays have no more less or more 'rights' than the rest of us, to marry someone of the opposite sex.

So practically, you'd be requesting MORE rights for you than for heterosexuals. How does that make gays equal in that case?

Wow, i do give you too much credit. Moving on....

[smokethedays]

Being married gives you a lot of legal benefits. If you bf and bf or what ever you get none if the following

Being married gives you tax breaks. Being married you can put your spouse under your health insurance. Spouses also have legal rights for health decision in case something bad happened to the other person. Also a spouse can get social security if something happened to the other.

Do you think all that is BS too?

so it is not equality of HUMAN rights it is equality of Financial and legal rights here. I C
well answer this then:
when 2 gay ppl adopt an orphan whom was born to a straight couple obviously. don't you think he is entitled to NORMAL life style?
Gays being upnormal according to soceity's norms and values.

[Bojangles69]

Wow, i do give you too much credit. Moving on....

You can't argue logic with emotion.

Try it in court, the judge will laugh at you.. same way if you come in spitting statistics, its not considered 'concrete evidence' of anything.

At least in the eyes of people who have the power, and were given the power for a reason.

[BG]

Fuc it let them get married, but no tax breaks, their lucky enough to have 2male incomes as it is !!!!

[gixxerboy1]

so it is not equality of HUMAN rights it is equality of Financial and legal rights here. I C
well answer this then:
when 2 gay ppl adopt an orphan whom was born to a straight couple obviously. don't you think he is entitled to NORMAL life style?
Gays being upnormal according to soceity's norms and values.

Adoption is a whole different discussion. We were talking about gay being aloud to marry. Your reason for marriage seemed like it was just for an approval from God. I gave other reasons to marry. And gays are being denied those.

As far as your question about adoption. If the straight couple was worried about the child having a normal life maybe they should have kept the child. Is foster care a normal life? Is being adopted to straight parents normal?

[smokethedays]

Little more food for thought :

Question: How Many Children Have Gay Parents in the US?

Answer:

# There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976.
# In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have a gay or lesbian parent.
# Between 8 and 10 million children are being raised in a gay and lesbian households.

Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:

* An estimated two million GLB people are interested in adopting.
* An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
* More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
* Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.

They don't have a choice except that to benefit from tax cuts and other govt aids, do they now?!
* Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

SOURCE:

Adoption and Foster Care by Lesbian and Gay Parents in the United States, Author(s): Gary Gates, Lee M.V. Badgett, Jennifer Ehrle Macomber, Kate Chambers of the Urban Institute.

Looks like we are trying to clean up "your" mess

Clean up my mess?!!

Wow why are you gwettin' personal, im just stating my opinion just like you, aren't gays about equality and rights?!! FVCK your a living example that you guys are liers. or not to judge other gays, you are a living lie.

[DSM4Life]

now answering your questions one by one:

Why do straight couples get these 'perks' as you call it. these are not perks sir. that is the problem, gays think of as a 'kool' thing to do appranently, a PERK, a family foundation to you is a PERK. now that way off.

Wow, did you read the part where i said to do some research so you didn't look stupid ? I guess you missed it but Gix pointed some reasons out:

"Being married gives you a lot of legal benefits. If you bf and bf or what ever you get none if the following

Being married gives you tax breaks. Being married you can put your spouse under your health insurance. Spouses also have legal rights for health decision in case something bad happened to the other person. Also a spouse can get social security if something happened to the other.

Do you think all that is BS too? "

We don't want to be cool, we want out family taken care of.



I didnot say the sole reason for marriage is to produce ,I said beside that is is the religion's OK for 2 people to have sex and the govt. way to identify the relationship as official relationship. Think broader b4 you tell me to research, you cannot research logic sir, it is logic and it is wt it is until the entire society adopts a differnt norm which is in this case what gays are trying to accomplish, be equal.

Ok, i am not following you here. Not sure if i can't follow your logic or spelling mistakes.


you'd like to see what, how a kid in school is going to be looked at differently? are you serious? kids rip on each other for cloth style, hair style, cars, anything possibly just to be kool.
how about 2 daddys share the same bed in our todays society powered by our great media?


So if a kid gets picked on for wear "dorky" cloths , should we remove his cloths ?

I didn't attack gays as you appranetly tryin to say and calling me uneducated about THIS. there is no education in this. it is totally social construction.
Let me ask you a question, don't you aree that the ENTIRE world is rules initially by religion?
NO !
and govts use it to manipulate the ppl?
As long as the main three religions is what ppl on earth are being taught, gays are not going to be viewed as they wish. Now case is closed.

What i get from your post is your pretty much saying "Well, this is the way society is so i'll just run with it until it changes."

Yeah, ummm good luck with that.

p.s

On a side not i am not flaming at all just stating my opinion.
(except for Bo)

[Bojangles69]

This is an issue of ethics, religion, law/constitution that objectively has tons of weight on both sides.

I don't believe in ethics, religion, or law, and I don't believe gays should be restricted. I'm just saying theres a time for it, and it most likely will happen.
I don't care either way because its not my job and I don't consider marriage a right.

I mean gays got out of the DSM how long ago?
And now they want marriage?

Just seems a little rushed for a country like US.

[smokethedays]

DSM how about you write us a scenario here for thes dilemma:

A child who has been adopted by 2 gay ppl, growns up until he starts to understand what sexual relations are.
Then from TV, internet, school mates....etc he learns more about man/woman relationship. now lets say the kid is around 8-9 years old.

Now you DSM is one of the parents, and the kid comes to you and asks you, why don't
i have a mom? what is your answer?

[warchild]

easy fellas, thats why these threads get locked or people get banned

[Bojangles69]

And I agree wayyy to personal. Thats what gets threads locked.

[Bojangles69]

DSM how about you write us a scenario here for thes dilemma:

A child who has been adopted by 2 gay ppl, growns up until he starts to understand what sexual relations are.
Then from TV, internet, school mates....etc he learns more about man/woman relationship. now lets say the kid is around 8-9 years old.

Now you DSM is one of the parents, and the kid comes to you and asks you, why don't
i have a mom? what is your answer?

maybe "oh shit"

[gixxerboy1]

DSM how about you write us a scenario here for thes dilemma:

A child who has been adopted by 2 gay ppl, growns up until he starts to understand what sexual relations are.
Then from TV, internet, school mates....etc he learns more about man/woman relationship. now lets say the kid is around 8-9 years old.

Now you DSM is one of the parents, and the kid comes to you and asks you, why don't
i have a mom? what is your answer?

I'm asking honestly. Your whole argument seems to be about children of gays now. Is that the reason you think they shouldn't marry? If gays couldnt adopt would you be for allowing gay marriage? Do you think gays should get the other rights i listed that straight couple have?

[smokethedays]

What i get from your post is your pretty much saying "Well, this is the way society is so i'll just run with it until it changes."

Yeah, ummm good luck with that.

p.s

On a side not i am not flaming at all just stating my opinion.
(except for Bo)

You don't state your opinion by calling me stupid, that is 1st. 2nd argue the whole night or until you die. The society views gays as a big NO NO.
not only in the US you have a whole world of over 6 billion people out there to convince. so good luck.

Oh and yeah, I really lost lots of respect for you tryin' to put me down for puting out my opinion, while you a re supposed to be the rights guy, since according to you' your 'rights' aren't given to you.

I really think you need education.

[gixxerboy1]

DSM how about you write us a scenario here for thes dilemma:

A child who has been adopted by 2 gay ppl, growns up until he starts to understand what sexual relations are.
Then from TV, internet, school mates....etc he learns more about man/woman relationship. now lets say the kid is around 8-9 years old.

Now you DSM is one of the parents, and the kid comes to you and asks you, why don't
i have a mom? what is your answer?

What does the straight parent say to the kid if they are a single parent? Or they are divorced and now have a step dad too. There are alot of imperfect senerio's out there.

[Bojangles69]

And the REAL issue this topic is bad is the real question isn't what the OP posted.

The real issue is "is being gay moral"?
And thats why if either side doesn't lighten up this thread will have a short life.

Keep it light fellas! If I see DSM getting mad I'll just leave and understand he wants the thread locked.

[smokethedays]

I'm asking honestly. Your whole argument seems to be about children of gays now. Is that the reason you think they shouldn't marry? If gays couldnt adopt would you be for allowing gay marriage? Do you think gays should get the other rights i listed that straight couple have?

That is all i said, I don't care if two men wants to fvck each other or two women want to have a women orgy.
I never argued about their rights to 'marry' for the sole reason of marriage, BUT what is the point except financial befetis and govt. programs for married ppl? if that is the reason, then letthem have and they will ask for a ban on gay marriage themselves.

But DSM took it personal and started telling me to research and im looking stupid and uneducated. Very unexpected form a gay guy to do that juast for sayin' my opinion.

[Bojangles69]

What does the straight parent say to the kid if they are a single parent? Or they are divorced and now have a step dad too. There are alot of imperfect senerio's out there.

Yeh good point, I still see divorce as a border line socially acceptable behavoir. It will affect a child, but when you find out you have 2 dads society will rip that childs reality apart.

Thats just my opinion.
Ok I have to get out of this thread now.

Everyone makes great points, well those at least who are debating and no so much arguing.

[Bojangles69]

That is all i said, I don't care if two men wants to fvck each other or two women want to have a women orgy.
I never argued about their rights to 'marry' for the sole reason of marriage, BUT what is the point except financial befetis and govt. programs for married ppl? if that is the reason, then letthem have and they will ask for a ban on gay marriage themselves.

But DSM took it personal and started telling me to research and im looking stupid and uneducated. Very unexpected form a gay guy to do that juast for sayin' my opinion.

edit: I'm just fueling the fire. 4get it

[DSM4Life]

DSM how about you write us a scenario here for thes dilemma:

A child who has been adopted by 2 gay ppl, growns up until he starts to understand what sexual relations are.
Then from TV, internet, school mates....etc he learns more about man/woman relationship. now lets say the kid is around 8-9 years old.

Now you DSM is one of the parents, and the kid comes to you and asks you, why don't
i have a mom? what is your answer?

First i would explain what a family is to him:

(off the top of my head)
Two loving/caring PEOPLE looking out for the welfare of their child/children.

They look out for each other and help each other out no matter what. And also that they can always come talk to each other without ever feeling ashamed or embarrassed.

Then explain that are different types of families. Some have 2 fathers, two mothers or one of each. What matters the most is that you have two people who love you and will always love you.

It just so happen that daddy (me) fell in love with your other father. After years of being together we wanted a child so we got you. And we couldn't have been blessed with a better child.

Is there anything else that confuses you ? or that you are afraid to tell me ? Don't worry because nothing that you say will ever make me love you less.

If not, lets go get some ice cream !

[Bojangles69]

oh oh can I be the child now?!

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

[DSM4Life]

On a side note:

Listen ladies, none of this is personal so stop taking it hat way. Some of you guys are more sensitive than my female friends.

[smokethedays]

What does the straight parent say to the kid if they are a single parent? Or they are divorced and now have a step dad too. There are alot of imperfect senerio's out there.

i think single parents or step parent is a lot more popular then complete families to begin with.

You are in denial if you say that it won't be a problem. you know it is.

Prents have a hard time tryin to explain to children why candy is bad, or why too much TV is bad, how do you think you can explain such EXTREMLEY sensitive issue to a CHILD for god's sake. a freakin' child.

[DSM4Life]

oh oh can I be the child now?!

NO, No ice cream for you !

[gixxerboy1]

i think single parents or step parent is a lot more popular then complete families to begin with.

You are in denial if you say that it won't be a problem. you know it is.

Prents have a hard time tryin to explain to children why candy is bad, or why too much TV is bad, how do you think you can explain such EXTREMLEY sensitive issue to a CHILD for god's sake. a freakin' child.

I agree that it would be some kind of an issue.
But i'm sure it was for divorced or single parent kids in the 70 and 80's. Things change like you said. Now those 2 issues aren't really and issue anymore. 10-15 years from now hopefully gays will be more accepted and it wont be an issue either.

also kids dont know what a sensitive issue is? Parents teach that. A child is a blank slate.

[smokethedays]

First i would explain what a family is to him:

(off the top of my head)
Two loving/caring PEOPLE looking out for the welfare of their child/children.

They look out for each other and help each other out no matter what. And also that they can always come talk to each other without ever feeling ashamed or embarrassed.

Then explain that are different types of families. Some have 2 fathers, two mothers or one of each. What matters the most is that you have two people who love you and will always love you.

But the school and the TV teaches a family is a mom, dad, kids ,and a pet.

It just so happen that daddy (me) fell in love with your other father. After years of being together we wanted a child so we got you. And we couldn't have been blessed with a better child.
Again school sex ed class teaches that children come about from sexual realtionship between a male and a female.

GOT YOU?!!! are you fvckin' serious? what is he, a chips bag? Got him how?

Is there anything else that confuses you ? or that you are afraid to tell me ? Don't worry because nothing that you say will ever make me love you less.

If not, lets go get some ice cream !

As a said you are a living example for the failure of 2 gay ppl raising a NORMAL child that is not theirs to begin with.
On top of his fvcked life being an orphan and never see his real pearents, now he has to make up his mind who is correct, the school and scoeity's teachings or his daddy but not real daddy sleeping with his other daddy.
FVCK I got confused.

[Rugger02]

On a side note:

Listen ladies, none of this is personal so stop taking it hat way. Some of you guys are more sensitive than my female friends.

[Rugger02]

As a said you are a living example for the failure of 2 gay ppl raising a NORMAL child that is not theirs to begin with.
On top of his fvcked life being an orphan and never see his real pearents, now he has to make up his mind who is correct, the school and scoeity's teachings or his daddy but not real daddy sleeping with his other daddy.
FVCK I got confused.

Personally I think you should stop posting in this thread. No reason to get steamed and you already made your opinion extremely clear. Mission accomplished, move on.

[Bojangles69]

NO, No ice cream for you !

Honestly though I'll be objective for once myself.
I DO believe both ME & YOU and a lot of people prob have personal feelings about this issue that came out in this thread.

The fact is childs now and days are subjected to SO MUCH crap, that having 2 dads isn't even a drop in the bucket. And its societies inability to accept the idea (gay marriage) that will actually make that childs life harder.

So me giving evidence against it, is me making the child life harder myself in the future. I try to view it with the spirit of the time. And even when marriage is legalized, it doesn't mean children are gonna have it "easy" anyway.
The true test comes to the individuals parenting abilities, not sexual orientation. So yeh, I know when I'm being bias.

[DSM4Life]

As a said you are a living example for the failure of 2 gay ppl raising a NORMAL child that is not theirs to begin with.

Your a living failure for change.


On top of his fvcked life being an orphan and never see his real pearents, now he has to make up his mind who is correct, the school and scoeity's teachings or his daddy but not real daddy sleeping with his other daddy.
FVCK I got confused.

In the end , i'll agree with you. I will instead go get a dog and a nice plant that smells good. Oh and the 500K kids in foster care can rot in hell.

good night all and god bless (Not that there is a god : have fun with that one)

[DSM4Life]

Honestly though I'll be objective for once myself.
I DO believe both ME & YOU and a lot of people prob have personal feelings about this issue that came out in this thread.

The fact is childs now and days are subjected to SO MUCH crap, that having 2 dads isn't even a drop in the bucket. And its societies inability to accept the idea (gay marriage) that will actually make that childs life harder.

So me giving evidence against it, is me making the child life harder myself in the future. I try to view it with the spirit of the time. And even when marriage is legalized, it doesn't mean children are gonna have it "easy" anyway.
The true test comes to the individuals parenting abilities, not sexual orientation. So yeh, I know when I'm being bias.

Now there is the Bo i know. *pat on the head, good boy. Now for being a good boy here you go

I know you love strawberry but they are out of it. Stop crying or you will get a spanking... FROM BOTH YOUR FATHERS MUHAHAHAH

[gixxerboy1]

In the end , i'll agree with you. I will instead go get a dog and a nice plant that smells good. Oh and the 500K kids in foster care can rot in hell.

good night all and god bless (Not that there is a god : have fun with that one)

You know my dog is going to make fun or your dog because it has a rainbow collar

good night buddy

[smokethedays]

In the end , i'll agree with you. I will instead go get a dog and a nice plant that smells good. Oh and the 500K kids in foster care can rot in hell.

good night all and god bless (Not that there is a god : have fun with that one)

Oh no don't let them rott in hell, just give them to a gay prents to use them as a tool to strengthen their social image and say we are parents as well. or use them as a tool to benefit off the govt programs for parents. or maybe just to be kool.

Welcome to the begining of the end of the Roman Empire, I meant the American Empire.

[Bojangles69]

Now there is the Bo i know. *pat on the head, good boy. Now for being a good boy here you go

I know you love strawberry but they are out of it. Stop crying or you will get a spanking... FROM BOTH YOUR FATHERS MUHAHAHAH

[KingTenderloin]

In the end , i'll agree with you. I will instead go get a dog and a nice plant that smells good. Oh and the 500K kids in foster care can rot in hell.

good night all and god bless (Not that there is a god : have fun with that one)

He says they can rot in hell in one sentence and that there is no God in the next sentence

[smokethedays]

He says they can rot in hell in one sentence and that there is no God in the next sentence

what a hypocrite.