tryvone martin

[lovbyts]

the whole thing is a bad situation. A kid died for nothing. black or white still sucks. Nobody disputes he was just walking home from the store. If Zimmerman didnt have a gun on him or didnt get out of the car and just waited for the police nobody would be dead.

If zimmerman did not have a gun he might be the one who is dead or at least in severe condition in the hospital. Would that had been OK?
I still believe 90% of the facts we are hearing especially at the beginning are leaving out a lot of details. I dont think Zimmerman perused him trying to be a vigilante but because he wanted to make sure he did not just disappear into the night before the police got there.

Wouldn't you be a little pissed off if your house had just gotten broken into and learned the neighborhood watch patrol just let the person walk away? Hindsight is always 20/20 and it's easy to say now that Trayvon had a right to be there. The biggest problem is it's turned into a race issue where it shouldn't and to many people are getting involved and stirring up the public when they shouldn't and they are only causing causing more division.

I will bet when more of the facts come out Zimmerman just asked him what he was doing there and like a typical smart ass 17yr old who was bigger than Zimmerman was being a smart ass and decided he would take out some of his frustration on the guy asking to many question.

Facts already show Zimmerman was the one on the ground being beaten up, yelling for help, had a broken nose and head was being bashed on the ground. At what point do you feel your life is threatened and use deadly force? I dont care if he was 16 or 15, in the same situation and if I felt it boiled down to me or him it would be him. I'm not going to stop to ask to see his ID so I make sure he is 18+

The skittles, iced tea, candy or whatever is irrelevant. They are only put out there for the same reason as showing him in a Holister T shirt when he was 14 to portray him as some sweat innocent kid. Jack the ripper, Gary Ridgway & Jeffery Dohmer were all sweat little kid at one time. Not saying he would have turned out like that just saying there is a big difference between a 14yr old JR high kid and a 209 lb 6' 2" football player with unstable hormones and typical teenage aggression towards any authority figure.



All this is happening because the media/government wants to keep us (US Public) pre occupied with media hype, reality shows and other entertainment instead of paying attention to what is going on under our noses and how we are being manipulated and screwed over by our elected officials and the people who control them.

[Shol'va]

Wow and it just gets crazier. Tomorrow there will be a protest rally in most major American cities, Kansas City Included to protest over Trayvon Martins Death down in Florida. But this is what I don't get. Ok African Americans and all others are killed on a daily basis in every major city and no one ever calls for protests for the local kids being killed but yet there are protests going on for a kid killed down in Florida? Why not protest in our own back yard over kids being killed right here? So the message I am getting is it's ok for kids to be killed in our own cities every day but not in Florida or we protest.

[quarry206]

sorry to use a crude poster picture, I didn't make it or like the tone, but it has a point...

[quarry206]

well I defend the cops because of the "facts they have" say zimmerman isn't lying... but Zimmerman should have never been armed if acting as an UN-registered guard or neighborhood watch..

1- Zimmerman did get his ass beat before he shot martin, a witness does confirm that. Also confirmed that the guy in red (zimmerman) was the one on bottom getting his ass beat yelling help..
2- the girlfriend never stepped forward and still has not talked to police.
3- even if lying, Zimmerman said all the right things, including the next day when they did a full walk through on the property of that night.
4- the pictures they keep showing of Martin are him when he was 14 to make him look more innocent (which he seems to be), and the photo of Zimmerman is five years old not a recent picture of him.
5- they down play that Zimmerman has caught two people breaking into homes in the past two months.

BUT, Zimmerman illegally had the weapon because he was acting as a unregistered watch man NOT a private citizen...and the cops should have had drug tested him, and tried a little harder to find martins side of the story.

[Honkey_Kong]

You know the sad thing is that it's going to be damn near impossible for Zimmerman to even get a fair trial. The media wants his blood and that's what will happen.

[Nooomoto]

Couple points:

-I don't believe Martin couldn't outrun Zimmerman. Have you ever seen a black kid run? I believe if he was trying to get away from Zimmerman, it would've been achieved in about a second. That being said...if he was trying to get away, how did he end up on the ground with Zimmerman? If you're scared and fearing for your safety you're either going to run or fight. If he had chosen to run, he would've been gone. Are you going to tell me an old fat guy chased down a young black kid and shot him? Very unplausible scenario.

-Charges have not been brought on Zimmerman because either:
A) The police based on what they saw at the scene that night see no crime committed by Zimmerman
B) There isn't enough evidence at current time to really describe definitively what happened that night. The 911 call alone is not enough to bring charges of murder against Zimmerman, and right now thats all there is. If the State brought charges against him and all they had to prove it was the 911 call, they'd certainly lose. We've all seen people walk with mountains of evidence against them...there certainly isn't a mountain here.

Everyone is screaming about bringing charges against Zimmerman...well the charges aren't there. The burden of proof is on the State, and at present time they simply cannot prove what happened that night.

[oatmeal69]

That being said, Martin has just as much right to "stand his ground" as Zimmerman does. He had no obligation to run, or back down from confrontation either, if that's what happened...

[Nooomoto]

That being said, Martin has just as much right to "stand his ground" as Zimmerman does. He had no obligation to run, or back down from confrontation either, if that's what happened...

I was just pointing out that the version of the story where Martin runs away from Zimmerman and is chased down and murdered is not plausible. The issue can't really move forward because there is no way to know what really happened, who ran, who chased, who initiated physical contact, etc etc. The only solid piece of evidence is the 911 call, everything else is circumstantial or irrelevant to the events of that night.

This is why no charges have been brought against Zimmerman, and I don't think they will be. There simply isn't enough there to form a case against him. In law, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. Knowing and proving are two different things.

[JP-MAN]

i have to say,. i have said a couple times in this thread that he should be in jail, however the more i read about this, i just dont no.
i am guilty of rushing to a judgement.....

[tcw]

Yes...you are "Guilty of ignorance!"

Now...we are going to try you in a court of your peers on the "Steroid Forum Court"....where you WILL BE JUDGED and adjudicated GUILTY!

(further man sayeth not?...court is adjourned...bailiff...take the prisoner away).

i have to say,. i have said a couple times in this thread that he should be in jail, however the more i read about this, i just dont no.
i am guilty of rushing to a judgement.....

[dumbtoad]

the whole thing is a bad situation. A kid died for nothing. black or white still sucks. Nobody disputes he was just walking home from the store. If Zimmerman didnt have a gun on him or didnt get out of the car and just waited for the police nobody would be dead.

Exactly. The 911 operator told him specifically to quit following him. Why was he carrying a gun unless he planned on trouble? Zimmerman instigated the entire situation. Period.

[Gaspari1255]

Exactly. The 911 operator told him specifically to quit following him. Why was he carrying a gun unless he planned on trouble? Zimmerman instigated the entire situation. Period.

Right because people apply for conceal & carry permits just to go out looking for helpless victims to gun down. It has NOTHING to do with self defense or protection...

[tcw]

You don't know what you are talking about Man.

If i see someone walking and casing my neighborhood---i can choose to follow him. I can even walk up to him and ask him what he's doing here---no law broken. Now...he can tell me to go to hell...but i have broken no law (Especially, if i'm officially on neighborhood crime-watch committee).

And....i'll tell you something else. No Police dispatcher has authority over me (maybe they have authority over you ?).

If 6 dudes are trying to storm your home and you call the cops---and they tell you "don't do anything...wait for the police"...are you gonna tell me (us) that you are gonna "Wait for the Calvary" to rescue your arse?

LOL !

Exactly. The 911 operator told him specifically to quit following him. Why was he carrying a gun unless he planned on trouble? Zimmerman instigated the entire situation. Period.

[gixxerboy1]

And....i'll tell you something else. No Police dispatcher has authority over me (maybe they have authority over you ?).

I'm not being a smart ass. But do they? If they tell you to specifically not do something or not do it and you dont listen can you get in trouble?

[tcw]

Police don't have authority over you until they arrest you---or you are interfering with their duties. That means...they can stop you....question you...but can't tell you what to do unless you are under arrest.

I had a cop pull me over the other night. It was Sunday....and the time change threw me off. I was driving on a major road looking for a grocery store so i pulled into this plaza---and then i see the gum-balls and two cops swarm me. I calmly pulled over---and ask the cops "why did you pull me over?" They had no right to stop me....i knew it.

One of them got smart with me---but i gave him a straight look---and he backed off. I handed them my DL and papers---and he ran my background. When he came back to my car---he apologized for stopping me and then explained about breakin's and other BS in the area. I told him "no problem...i'm just a little tired....lookin for some food." We then parted ways.

People...don't know their legal rights---which is a HUGH part of the PROBLEM we have in this country.

You have a lot more power than you think....but if you don't exercise it...you will lose it.

Most important thing to remember when dealing with Cops...unless you have broken a Law...or are up to no good....you don't have anything to worry about.

Good people don't have to worry about the Law---its the Bad Fvckers that have to worry.

I'm not being a smart ass. But do they? If they tell you to specifically not do something or not do it and you dont listen can you get in trouble?

[zaggahamma]

Police don't have authority over you until they arrest you---or you are interfering with their duties. That means...they can stop you....question you...but can't tell you what to do unless you are under arrest.

I had a cop pull me over the other night. It was Sunday....and the time change threw me off. I was driving on a major road looking for a grocery store so i pulled into this plaza---and then i see the gum-balls and two cops swarm me. I calmly pulled over---and ask the cops "why did you pull me over?" They had no right to stop me....i knew it.

One of them got smart with me---but i gave him a straight look---and he backed off. I handed them my DL and papers---and he ran my background. When he came back to my car---he apologized for stopping me and then explained about breakin's and other BS in the area. I told him "no problem...i'm just a little tired....lookin for some food." We then parted ways.

People...don't know their legal rights---which is a HUGH part of the PROBLEM we have in this country.

You have a lot more power than you think....but if you don't exercise it...you will lose it.

Most important thing to remember when dealing with Cops...unless you have broken a Law...or are up to no good....you don't have anything to worry about.

Good people don't have to worry about the Law---its the Bad Fvckers that have to worry.

luckily the smart ass didnt persist and provoke you even further and arrest you and make up a story..thats the problem on the police side is there was no reason for him to be a smartass...you asked a legit question and he was taken aback that you had the AUDACITY to question why an innocent man was stopped/detained for questioning/id'ing

[jimmyinkedup]

Im pretty sure the operator said "we dont need you to do that". Big difference between that and " Stop fdollowing the individual immediately"
Maybe he was carrying a gun since there have recently been robberies in his neighborhood and if he ever had to protect himself he wanted to be able to exert his constitutional right to bear arms and his legal right to defend himself.

[JD250]

That's bullshit dumbtoad! Thousands of people carry concealed in a perfectly legal way, a lot of members here carry concealed does that mean they are looking for trouble?....and who the fvck is a 911 operator to advise anyone on how to defend their neighborhood, not exactly the definitive word on the law now is she? Stop listening to the racist media hype, you're smarter than that.

[gixxerboy1]

That's bullshit dumbtoad! Thousands of people carry concealed in a perfectly legal way, a lot of members here carry concealed does that mean they are looking for trouble?....and who the fvck is a 911 operator to advise anyone on how to defend their neighborhood, not exactly the definitive word on the law now is she? Stop listening to the racist media hype, you're smarter than that.

But what makes it zimmermans job to "defend" the neighborhood. Thats why its called neighborhood watch not defense. Thats what the police are for. And what was he defending the neighborhood from a guy with skittles and an ice tea?

[Gaspari1255]

But what makes it zimmermans job to "defend" the neighborhood. Thats why its called neighborhood watch not defense. Thats what the police are for. And what was he defending the neighborhood from a guy with skittles and an ice tea?

Those skittles and ice tea could have been a 9mm and machete. The bottom line is, none of us were there, we really don't know what happened. It's all a bunch of "maybes" and "what if's".

[gixxerboy1]

Those skittles and ice tea could have been a 9mm and machete. The bottom line is, none of us were there, we really don't know what happened. It's all a bunch of "maybes" and "what if's".

i'm sure the guy felt justified at the time. But still if he just listened and stayed in the car a kid walking home from the store would still be alive and he wouldn't be dealing with this. This whole situation was avoidable and a shame

[jimmyinkedup]

But what makes it zimmermans job to "defend" the neighborhood. Thats why its called neighborhood watch not defense. Thats what the police are for. And what was he defending the neighborhood from a guy with skittles and an ice tea?

First off im not sure its definative he was actually a part of the neighborhood watch.(heard conflicting reports)
Second of all he can do whatever the fvck he wants if he isnt breaking the law.
There were recent robberies in his neighborhood - part of watch or not he has every right to keep an eye out , monitor, whatever and he also has the right to legally carry a firearm and defend himself.

My father in law lives in a neighborhood where a man and woman have slashed 80 cars tires in the last several months. They have video but havent caught them. The whole neighborhood is on watch - they have baseball bats next to their doors.
I say good for them and i hope they shatter the guys knees if he tries to do anything agressive when confronted. Hell I hope they do it even if he tries to run.

[tcw]

LOL...yeah something similar happened to one of my neighbors.

He had an enemy who was vandalizing his collector 1972 convertible impala. The dude would come over in the middle of the night...and break one of his tail-lights and then disappear. My neighbor decided to set up a camera system and monitor his car. He had recordings of this dude driving up and whacking his car tail lights...and was working with police to bust him.

Well one night..the dude showed up...but my neighbor was up. Dude got the living shit kicked out him...and then arrested.

LOL...my dog woke my up and i put on my robe went outside with my flashlight and i see some smuck laying on the curb...and my neighbor with his gun on him----grinning from ear-to-ear.

Cops came---dude got some time and HEAVY fines and probation.

First off im not sure its definative he was actually a part of the neighborhood watch.(heard conflicting reports)
Second of all he can do whatever the fvck he wants if he isnt breaking the law.
There were recent robberies in his neighborhood - part of watch or not he has every right to keep an eye out , monitor, whatever and he also has the right to legally carry a firearm and defend himself.

My father in law lives in a neighborhood where a man and woman have slashed 80 cars tires in the last several months. They have video but havent caught them. The whole neighborhood is on watch - they have baseball bats next to their doors.
I say good for them and i hope they shatter the guys knees if he tries to do anything agressive when confronted. Hell I hope they do it even if he tries to run.

[zaggahamma]

That's bullshit dumbtoad! Thousands of people carry concealed in a perfectly legal way, a lot of members here carry concealed does that mean they are looking for trouble?....and who the fvck is a 911 operator to advise anyone on how to defend their neighborhood, not exactly the definitive word on the law now is she? Stop listening to the racist media hype, you're smarter than that.

i've been wondering this as well

[Gaspari1255]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...tice-black-men


^That's what fvcking burns me up the most. What gives these fvcking idiots the right to put a bounty on a mans head and go hunt him down?

If they end up "Capturing" him, it will be an all out god damn race war like the Wild Wild West. Just because a black man dies from a different race, doesn't give you the right to round up your gang and go hunt the "perpetrator" down.

I don't feel like getting into the issue of whose guilty and who is innocent. But here's something to think about: When you see a MAN (doesn't matter what color) with his pants sagging down his ass, hood up, XXXXXXXXL white tee on, and fitted hat on backwards, do you feel comfortable around him? Wouldn't you keep your eyes on him at all times if he was near you?

....Yes I know Trayvon only had half of that attire on, but the point is still there.

[Gaspari1255]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...demarks-769123


^The mother is sooo upset over the death of baby boy, yet wants to make $ off of his death- interesting isn't it?

[zaggahamma]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...demarks-769123


^The mother is sooo upset over the death of baby boy, yet wants to make $ off of his death- interesting isn't it?

yup VERY interesting or transparent

[Coolhand5599]

He has not been arrested because they have evidence that we do not know for some reason. We are so quick to judge without all the facts.

[Mark5]

He has not been arrested because they have evidence that we do not know for some reason. We are so quick to judge without all the facts.

Apparently a lot of this evidence is set for release on April 10. I can only imagine the furor the media will have drummed up in our country by then.

Edit: Well the grand jury is to begin hearing the case on that date...not sure to what extent the evidence shown will be made public though, not exactly sure how those things work.

[JohnnyVegas]

The part of the call I heard did not include the dispatcher telling him what to do. At one point, the dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was following and then said, "you don't need to do that." Zimmerman obviously disagreed.

My view is that his bad decision to engage in a personal confrontation is what resulted in an unfortunate death. I don't think he had any intention of shooting the kid until he found himself being beaten.

[tcw]

You can hear all conversations made public on this website. The site is one of the most Liberal political sites on the net (again...targeting viewers to sell ads). NOTE the liberal comments that have already convicted Zimmerman.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012...rtin-explained

QUESTION -POINTS
1. Why was Tray walking up to Zims truck...with his hands tucked inside his pants (a tough guy jester from the hood to show "i'm packing").
2. You can hear that Zim is very calm and collective while calling the Cops. If he was trying to ambush some Black Kid---he certainly wouldn't be calling them---and not in calm manor like that.
3. Zim was just some dude---trying to do good (and this was his mistake)---who stopped the wrong kid.
4. At what range did Zim Shoot Tray (this would tell us a lot). Did he shoot him in the gut as Tray was trying to walk away---or did he shoot him while they were tussling on the ground (close range)?
5. Zim got a busted nose---and bloodied skull? How did this happen unless someone punched him in the nose...then pounded his head on the ground?

Zim is not a career criminal---and doesn't sound like the kinda of guy who would (or even could) make up a story under the intense pressure of the moment. IN order to lie under pressure, one has to be psychopathic...from what i'm gathering....that's not the case here.

On the other hand we have a HS football player (aggressive) who was recently suspended for 10 days (What the hell did he do to get 10 days?). He also likes to take pictures of himself making stupid tough guy jesters on the internet. In addition, he likes to shove his hands down the front of sweat pants---indicating to all those who see him---that he's carrying a weapon.

A lot of the above is "inferring" but i think that's what happened.

The idiots who are protesting this incident by holding Unlawful assembly...taking out bounties where no one has been charged with a crime....are making "their whole culture look very foolish and demented" in the eyes of the world.

[quarry206]

The part of the call I heard did not include the dispatcher telling him what to do. At one point, the dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was following and then said, "you don't need to do that." Zimmerman obviously disagreed.

My view is that his bad decision to engage in a personal confrontation is what resulted in an unfortunate death. I don't think he had any intention of shooting the kid until he found himself being beaten.

thats not true, with the new stuff coming out when the operator said "we don't need you to do that" and he said "OK", he did turn around a witness and path patterns showed that Zimmerman was attacked by martin on the way back in his SUV not away from it.

[JohnnyVegas]

thats not true, with the new stuff coming out when the operator said "we don't need you to do that" and he said "OK", he did turn around a witness and path patterns showed that Zimmerman was attacked by martin on the way back in his SUV not away from it.

Yeah, I am now surprised how much time was given to this story when almost nothing was known about it. The news I hear still seems confused and jumbled. It will be interesting to see where we are at a week from now.

[tcw]

Interesting....

I wonder what Rev. Al and Rev. Jesse and all the idiots, Black Athletes and Stars "marching for an arrest" have to
say about this???

OF course to save face, they will vehemently attack and challenge the creditability of any who speak of Martin being the aggressor---they are just too far in deep....

LOL.

Everyday---leaders of the Black Culture are ignoring the facts of the case....and insist on stirring up dissension.

They want the state to charge Zim with a Crime to appease the Savages....LOL!

What Joke !

Who can possibly have any respect for these people?

BOTTOM LINE
Unless you can prove that Zim Shot Martin at a distance greater than a few feet...there is no case against him....and even then...the fact that his Mug and Skull were busted up....you have no case. Prosecutions only hope is forensics says he was greater than 3 feet...and he didn't have to shoot him. I'm betting that it was a close quarter shot...and a struggle for a gun. Anyone want to bet against me?

thats not true, with the new stuff coming out when the operator said "we don't need you to do that" and he said "OK", he did turn around a witness and path patterns showed that Zimmerman was attacked by martin on the way back in his SUV not away from it.

[JohnnyVegas]

OF course to save face, they will vehemently attack and challenge the creditability of any who speak of Martin being the aggressor---they are just too far in deep....

It is already being said (by his mother and other supporters) that all these facts are coming out to ruin the boy's reputation and they are completely irrelevant to the case. I find it interesting to learn about the character of BOTH people when an even like this happens.

This was an internet outrage almost instantly and it calmed down before any facts were actually released. Hell, it took a day or two before I realized Zimmerman wasn't a "white guy" like I had been hearing. It took another day or two before I started to doubt the "he chased him down and shot him" story.

Funny thing: the most rational perspective I heard on this story was on a local gun show that I stumbled upon while driving on Sunday. I expected them to be firmly in the shooter's corner, but they were swaying sane things like, "it won't be long until the data comes out, and we can make our assessments then."

[Shol'va]

The Plot Thickens

Well word has it now that Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for possession of drugs.

http://news.yahoo.com/family-pot-lin...170335350.html

And word has it the Trayvon was pounding the shooters head into the ground attempting to get the gun from him for what reason? Who knows. Which brings up a question. Makes you wonder what would have happened if Trayvon had of gotten the gun from this man and killed him. what would be going on now with the public and their protests? Would the Westboro Baptist Church be protesting about a black kid killing a white family man and that it is a racist event? Or that it happened because of gays in the military? I swear some folks in this country are stark raving mad! Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson,et,al Here is the link to the story on the head beating by Trayvon on the gunman.

http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-...-abc-news.html

[gixxerboy1]

i heard drugs, i also heard for a cell phone and i heard today that it was for writing "WTF" on a school locker.
It seems like everything is getting distorted and who knows what the truth is. The news used to be just facts. Now you can say allegedly and really say anything you want after it doest matter.

I heard on the news that allegedly Zimmerman had an ak-47 in his trunk and and 2 dead bodies of clowns.

[Shol'va]

i heard drugs, i also heard for a cell phone and i heard today that it was for writing "WTF" on a school locker.
It seems like everything is getting distorted and who knows what the truth is. The news used to be just facts. Now you can say allegedly and really say anything you want after it doest matter.

I heard on the news that allegedly Zimmerman had an ak-47 in his trunk and and 2 dead bodies of clowns.

[quarry206]

i heard drugs, i also heard for a cell phone and i heard today that it was for writing "WTF" on a school locker.
It seems like everything is getting distorted and who knows what the truth is. The news used to be just facts. Now you can say allegedly and really say anything you want after it doest matter.

I heard on the news that allegedly Zimmerman had an ak-47 in his trunk and and 2 dead bodies of clowns.

they have confirmed it was for weed in his backpack

[lovbyts]

they have confirmed it was for weed in his backpack

That explains the skittles then, munchies. lol

I HATE all the skittle talk. I wish people were smart enough to see the facts and understand how the media and others are trying to slant this with wood and visual accusation.
Trayvon: Skittles, candy = innocent kid. Pictures that are 4 years old showing an him from 11-14yr old.

Zimmernam, Disheveled looking, orange shirt making him look like a criminal.

It's all a mind game and a lot of people are falling for it. Stop being part of the pack mentality and not looking for facts or you are no better than the masses who think steroids of ALL type should be eliminated. It's all part of the media manipulation. Be smarter than that.