i keep returning to this page hoping someone has asked some more questions so i can fill my little head with knowledge but noone has :-( lol i cant think of anymore questions but hoping someone else can think of something..
New Member
i keep returning to this page hoping someone has asked some more questions so i can fill my little head with knowledge but noone has :-( lol i cant think of anymore questions but hoping someone else can think of something..
VET
^^surely you can think of something man lol.
SCAMMER
Great post...and i love the comment on Lasix, very, and i mean very difficult diuretic to control...
XXL
Knowledgeable Member
Yeah, they can work very well but they tend to mess up more guys than not. There are plenty other good options for most. Primarily, the best option of all, actually being in shape. I'm sure you've seen plenty of guys a week or two out talk about how they're just holding water and it'll all work out when they cut water and pop a diuretic. And what happens? They walk off stage with a frown on their face because they were too fat. Often in great shape but bodybuilding fat. That makes me think of something I heard just this week.....Originally Posted by MIKE_XXL
.....one of my competitors (currently off-season) said to me that they were worried about dieting as hard this go around because they were worried about losing gains. Now the important thing is after their last contest we both agreed they probably needed to be a little tighter and it could be done but it would be a little harder. My point, the word "Gains" I absolutely HATE that word because it is the achilles heel of so many competitors. The primary focus of any competitor should always be being as lean and hard as possible. Muscle mass is important, but it is a secondary concern. If you know how to come in shape and I mean really come in shape and you keep at the whole bodybuilding thing, more size will come. The best amateur bodybuilding I've ever known in my life, and by best I mean hands down could earn a pro card and I really think do well but will more than likely never turn pro, it is because he suffers from the "Gains Curse." Structurally, the guy is perfect. He can add muscle unlike anyone I've ever seen and stay in pretty good shape doing it but he cannot come in his best shape due to this fear. He diets hard, very hard and he eats very clean, but he becomes petrified when he feels his calories are getting too low. After several years of working together, he moved on to working with someone else. We still stay in contact and there's no bad blood at all. We're actually good friends. But his most recent contest coach told him he had some tricks that he thought would help him. The outcome? Same as always, big, structurally perfect looking guy that wasn't in shape because of "precious gains." It's a sad, sad never ending story for a lot of guys.
Associate Member
Amazing thread!! Not sure if this was mentioned but, after the show you take a week off, during this time do you stop all gear??
After that week do you just go right into your off season, and start a bulking cycle? Or do you slowly transition into it? Specifically wondering about the transition between gear..
Personally, do you ever do a PCT? If so, what does it consist of for you personally?.
Thanks again for a great, informative, EXPERIENCED thread!! Very well written..
Knowledgeable Member
After a show, taking off from training and/or gear depends on what's next. If you're done competing for the year, I'd recommend taking at least a couple weeks off from training if not a little more. That doesn't mean you have to sit around like a sloth, you can still be active in other ways and simply enjoy life a little bit. You can still compete, and compete seriously and still have a life. The more normal parts of your life are just a little more scheduled than the average guy, parts of the year are normal and then insanity, lol!
Coming off gear post-contest: If you have another show soon to follow, you're not going to come off. If you do, you'll look worse than you did at your prior show. If you don't like the idea of being on gear that long without a break, then don't do multiple shows close together. Pretty simple.
If you're not going to do another show for a good while, I don't recommend coming off everything right away. It seems to be too big of a shock to the body. Normally, it's best to simply run a low dose of testosterone for about a month, TRT level and then consider a PCT.
Myself: The last several years of my bodybuilding days, I was on far more than off. Off-season gear use would go straight into contest use with no break. There might be a bit of a bridge, a maintenance phase with low dose testosterone, that was my preference but it didn't always work out that way due to timing. Once contest prep was done for the year, I'd typically go into TRT doses of testosterone and remain there until the next off-season cycle. Usually 2-3 months of coasting on TRT doses, much less intense training and more or less normal eating. I don't recall a period of being off everything the last 4-5yrs.
PCT: I used to do standard Nolva/Clomid PCT's sometimes with 10 day HCG front loads. But in the end, it seemed pointless to run a PCT only to shut everything down again soon after.
Final point, I don't claim any of this to be the smartest or safest way to use gear. It's simply what's done in bodybuilding.
New Member
i know you've just explained what you do.. but im also curious..
after contest prep, its claimed that you can make serious gains in the weeks after the show.. can you ellaborate on this?
you dont train for 2 weeks after (okay, the imppressive gains must come after this period?)
do you run gear while you dont train?
your supposed to have done gaining after 8 weeks? so how do you make gains the weeks after the show?... or will you?
if you stop the gear obviously you wont make any gains..
if a standard prep means you use test prop/tren ace/mast prop, how long will you have to use these for to peak for the show, then make the massive gains the X number of weeks after the prep.. or do you change to something else?
could you devise a prep cycle that will allow one to peak for the show & make the gains after? when your body is supposed to be super anabolic due to the huge increases in food intake..
much love..
Knowledgeable Member
See above in red
New Member
this pretty much cleared everything up.. thank you.. tren for 8 months? wow thats crazy lol
Knowledgeable Member
Yea, that's nearer the extreme end of the scale. However as Metal said, competitive bodybuilding isn't healthy or safe, and it's goal dependant.
Great thread MJ, loving the honesty and the straight talking manor if this. There's no glorifying of beating around the topic. Which I think is great insight for anyone wishing to compete.
Knowledgeable Member
Thanks. And yes, you're right, there's no need to beat around the topic, although that's what most do. The way bodybuilding is normally talked about is what's really insane. Telling young hopefuls that if you work hard and eat all your vegetables you have a chance causes more guys to waste their time and efforts and is just plain lying. Bodybuilding, at least being successful at any level of the competitive end does come with some risk. I do think a lot of the risk is over exaggerated even by many who enjoy bodybuilding but so much of the information out there is simply a lie and tells people that don't know any better that there is no risk. I mean what's risky about working hard and eating right? Nothing, of course not, but that'll get you as far in bodybuilding as learning how to drive 100mph on the interstate will get you in NASCAR.
VET
Very well said sir!
Junior Member
Great Post !!
Junior Member
Nice stuff Metal
Junior Member
This thread is extremely helpful and interesting. Coincidentally I am on a similar diet you outlined and I want to throw some T3 in there to, have you noticed any negative repercussions from using it. I don't plan to take anywhere near as much as you did but maybe a six week cycle, take a break then do another. Any advice is welcome. I am also only plan on using 350 mg of test and hcg so take that into consideration.
Knowledgeable Member
I never had an problems with T3. Always a little hungrier, but that's part of dieting anyway and always a little warmer/hotter but it's not a big deal. As far as your test and hcg, it's never a good idea to use T3 for fat loss without some steroid related help or you'll risk losing muscle tissue, so using test and hcg would be a good thing.
Junior Member
I don't see how people afford all the hgh either
Knowledgeable Member
They buy in bulk, that helps some. And they don't spend a lot of money on things other people spend their money on. Bodybuilding can be a lonely and boring life, but if you're really into it, that's really all you're doing anyway and so is everyone else around you and that helps.
Junior Member
Ok metal new question,i wanna go test year round and trt dose betwen cycles,i wanna know how are youre ballz afther 5 years of test?i mean do you still have something there?
Knowledgeable Member
Most bodybuilders have small balls. I know that sounds funny but that often comes with it. Of course, if you run HCG along with your testosterone, your balls should stay full. This isn't something most bodybuilders mess with but it doesn't mean you can't.
My sack, it was a shrunken shade of its former self for many years. I've been on TRT for a few years now, test and HCG and my balls are back to normal and stay that way.
And by shrunken balls, they don't disappear or anything like that. They just lose some of their fullness.
New Member
what are your thoughts on bostin lloyd?...
is he an idiot? or does he speak the truth?
or
does he speak the truth but needs to keep his mouth shut?
also.. what are your thoughts on pepitides igf-1 lr3, ghrp-6, cjc-1295 & others like these? have you had any good/bad experiences with them? could they be considered a cheaper source of hgh? or just a waste of money?
Knowledgeable Member
I don't follow him although I've heard his name and people talking about him online. What did he say specifically that you're wondering about?
The peptides you mentioned, they're not a substitute for HGH. IGF-1 can be a good addition. I've personally never messed with the other items you listed. The combo of Semorelin and GHRP-2 seems like a good thing if you don't have access to HGH but I don't know too many guys who mess with the other stuff. Most just use HGH or they don't but that doesn't include if they use IGF-1 or not. Again, IGF-1 is a separate issue.
Knowledgeable Member
Like I said before, I've heard his name around but I've never met the guy or watched any of his videos. So I looked one up and watched this one:
Steroids In Bodybuilding - Featuring Bostin Loyd - YouTube
From that video, I guess his main points agree/disagree:
1. Steroids will only get you so far, HGH and peptides are needed: That's relative to how far you want to take it, but to be a truly big and competitive guy in the sport, yes I agree. I agree primarily with the HGH. IGF-1 can help but not always needed. Insulin, I've known a lot of guys, huge and successful competitors that have no need for insulin and just as many who do.
2. Message Boards are bad: Overall they can often be the worst place for a new guy to start and base all his info on. Nothing wrong with sharing experiences. But what often happens is each message board develops its own philosophy. What's considered perfect methods on one board is considered stupid on another. Guys get comfortable on a certain board and simply start parroting each other and that creates that message boards philosophy.
Back when I was around 22-23 when message boards first started really becoming popular, I saw the same kind of thing. I remember posting a proposed cycle/stack on three separate boards and the responses on each could not have been any more diverse. But a lot of guys will have someone with 8billion post respond to them and presto, that's the advice they stick with whether it's the best true advice or not. Somehow post count and bodybuilding genius has been magically linked together over the years.
One thing that's often overlooked, while steroids work in the body the same regardless of why you're using them, general recreational steroid advise and competitor advice isn't the same but it's often treated that way. A lot of guys on boards are in some ways just as bad as supplement companies when it comes to this.
3. Less side effects from actual steroids compared to pro-hormones: Absolutely agree
4. Building muscle with lower volume and not pump training with high sets is far superior: Couldn't agree with this one more. There are guys that can get away with high volume training but most will do better with low-moderate volume. It's hard for most to understand but a pump doesn't mean anything. A pump isn't a sign that you're growing. 30-45min training session is perfect, so again I agree.
5. Simple off-season cycle: Again, I agree. There's no reason for several steroids in the off-season. Test and Deca is pretty much all anyone needs. At some point, when more items are needed, HGH, IGF-1, etc. is the way to go. Adding oral steroids like Dbol and Anadrol, they can be fun to use but you're not accomplishing anything, not really. The only times I've had what I'd call real off-season success with something like Dbol is when I would hit a wall in my training. For example, say I'd been going hard and heavy for 8-9wks with my training and gear and hit a wall, a little Dbol can break through that and once it's done in a few weeks you continue on.
I'm not saying this is always the best approach. He said he had a hard time eating when he took orals, I've never had that issue.
6. Insulin: Humilin R good choice
7. Contest cycle: I don't wouldn't say Anavar and Winstrol both are needed but it's not uncommon. Primo, I prefer more Tren. Upping T3 and using HGH to lean out, agree.
8. Drugs more important than nutrition and the best coaches know that: That is 100% true.
9. Coming off and you're keeping your hormones "out of whack": For a serious competitor, that's hard to disagree with. If you're going to be a bodybuilder, not just a mild novice with it and really get into competing, you're not coming off testosterone. You might for a few weeks around the holidays or something but that's it. Yeah, I agree. I've known plenty of guys who are on most of the year and then they come off everything and run a PCT. For the sake of argument, let's say they have recovered decent natural testosterone production, but what's the point? As soon as they do they're crashing it again. No way that's good for you. A better path to follow is to use low doses of HCG year round with your gear. If you hit an off-period, "Off" in bodybuilding means just a little test, continue HCG. In terms of health, that's the best option.
Alright, there you go. That's my take from that video. But other than that, I have watched anything else and I don't know what he thinks about things in more specifics but from that video he doesn't seem like an idiot. In my opinion, Palumbo is one of the sharpest minds out there when it comes to bodybuilding, which is where he's pulling his info from and how he's learned. That's not a bad thing.
Senior Member
heyMetalject thanks for being so open and honest about bodybuilding truths. its refreshing seeing someone here being honest about what happening. I always say there is online cycling and offline cycling in regards to body building.
people are brain washed with orals cant be run for longer then 4 weeks, tren for 8 etc etc.
Need more openness about what happends when body builders come off the drugs. night and day difference with the pros. shocking how much of an illusion it can be at times with some athletes.
Junior Member
Thanks for the info Metal
Senior Member
because when u have to pin for years and years on end, it gets old and becomes a chore , blood work isn't cheap, and until you die is a long ass time. And phizer 100mg/ml cip isn't cheap either over the long run and homebrew is so up and down.Thanks for the info Metal
Id assume this is why people wanna avoid trt, TRT is just an excuse more or less for a lot of people to cruise and have a moral justification. I for one if i could have normal levels, not high levels of natural test i would take that in a heart beat.
One good thing about TRT is learning about DIM, saving adex for cycles only and controlling E2 with DIM, again for me DIM is pricey but at least i can give my body a bread from the AI.
Knowledgeable Member
I wouldn't purposely cruise just to cruise but if you're going to be a bodybuilder you're going to end up on TRT. Is that a bad thing? That depends on how you look at it. Most men at some point in their life will benefit and need TRT but when's impossible to say. A bodybuilder, an actual competitor, once he's done will more than likely be on TRT much sooner. Of course if he's still competing into his late 30's and 40's he might have ended up on TRT anyway, who knows.Thanks for the info Metal
And like mockery said, TRT isn't the cheapest thing in the world and if you really need it I would only do it legally. When you're making something a permanent part of your life why risk it, primarily the legal issues when you'll be holding that risk non-stop? Yes, I know gear use recreationally carries the same legal risk but that can end, TRT doesn't.
I use the site sponsor. I like it, it's a fair deal and a better deal than most IMO. No you don't build some doctor patient relationship that finds you grilling out with your doctor like it seems a lot of guys here want (at least that seems to often be the perception) but you get everything you need. If you need butt massaging along with your TRT there are plenty of programs out there that cost a 2nd mortgage that can provide just that.
Knowledgeable Member
Glad you like the thread.
There are three types of people who talk out of their ass regarding bodybuilding:
1. Those that don't know any better.
2. Those that parrot message board rhetoric.
3. Those that do know better but talking out of their ass makes them feel better about themselves for some reason.
Senior Member
^ hey thats me!
Knowledgeable Member
That's a lot of us at one time or another. It may be talking out of your ass about bodybuilding, steroids or something completely unrelated, but eventually your ass starts to hurt so it's better to just tell the truth.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
Metal you forgot:
4. All of the above.
-*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-
Knowledgeable Member
True. Those are the true super hero's of bodybuilding BS.
VET
happy new year Metal!
Knowledgeable Member
Same to you!
New Member
thank you for taking the time to write that reply.. much respect..
Junior Member
Happy new year Metal,also if you have the time i would be very interested if you explain mre in detail about point 4.
God bless
Knowledgeable Member
Point 4 in the last post, high volume pump training vs. lower volume - to start, a pump is simply the muscle filling up with blood. That doesn't mean it's growing. I've heard people say a pump makes you grow because that means the muscle is stretching out like a balloon but muscles aren't these solid ballon like things. A pump can be a good feeling but that's all it is, a good feeling.
The entire point of weight training is to stimulate the muscle and force it to want to grow. You force it by breaking it down and then the body builds it back up during rest. That's why you always hear rest is important because that's when you actually grow. When you're pounding away with a very high number of sets, more often than not you're annihilating your muscle tissue making recovery harder and eventually just wearing your whole body down. This doesn't mean you can't have some more intense workouts with more sets sometimes but overall most training sessions should be about getting solid stimulation and hard contractions of the muscle tissue you're working. From there, do all you can to help it recover, good food, good rest and good hormones.
Junior Member
A wise man you are
i've been a prisoner of the whole volume thing for the last months and for some reason i coudlnt understand why afther a deadly triceps training i did only 5 sets of "DUMBELL" curls(not even barbell),and felt as the best bicep training in my entire life,ofc triceps wasnt even sore
Knowledgeable Member
Just so you know, soreness isn't an indicator of growth and great training either.A wise man you are
i've been a prisoner of the whole volume thing for the last months and for some reason i coudlnt understand why afther a deadly triceps training i did only 5 sets of "DUMBELL" curls(not even barbell),and felt as the best bicep training in my entire life,ofc triceps wasnt even sore
And no, I'm not joking or being a smart ass.
The only good indicator of good training is growth, that's it. If you're trying to grow and you're not growing then something is wrong somewhere. You may be sore all the time, your workouts may be pumptastic and you may even be a little harder, but none of those things are growth.
Junior Member
Sadly i believe you are right
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