Insulin THAT much of a game changers?

[Obs]

Can you run an insulin cycle while on a ketogenic diet?

Oh man you are gonna have him breaking out the big guns now!

Yes you can and prepare to have your mind blow on the rest of what he says...


Attachment 174392

[GearHeaded]

Can you run an insulin cycle while on a ketogenic diet?

When your on a Ketogenic diet and in deep ketosis (ie, your brain is running efficiently on Ketones) the odds of you dying, going into a comma, or passing out from hypo-glycemia go WAY way down, nearly to zero. its almost impossible , why is this?

IF your not on Keto, then your brain has access to only one fuel source - glucose - the reason you hear of diabetics going into shock or a coma from an insulin over dose is because the insulin has driven their blood sugar down so low, that the brain no longer has a fuel source and begins to stop functioning (it can't function without fuel). it shuts down and a coma or death occurs.

IF you have Ketones in large supply in your body and your brain is already running off of Ketones, then thats the brains fuel source . NOT Sugar. so if you took to much insulin and drove blood sugar way way down. your brain would just still keep ticking along as normal because its running off of Ketones.

note: there is a study where people fasted for several days ( I think it was a week or so) and got into deep ketosis. They were given 20iu of insulin and closely monitored. Blood sugar levels dropped some but there was no ill effect on the brain at all .
again, because the brain was running on Ketones not sugar.

note- some people may ask . well when your in deep ketosis why do you have any glucose in your blood stream at all if your brain is not using it for fuel ? because there are certain cells in the body (not the brain) that can ONLY run on glucose alone and nothing else.. so your body has to always be producing glucose in order to keep these cells going (red blood cells are one example).


so YES you can run insulin while on keto. and your actually in a 'protected state' sort of speak.. I've actually thought about supplementing with exogenous Ketones while running insulin as a back up safety measure (but I've never had hypo glycemic issues and I have carbs available all the time) . but you can see where someone considering what I said above may find a way to implement dietary ketones in their protocols.


having said all that . I've found zero reason personally to run insulin on a Keto diet . now on a CKD or modified keto diet, using insulin for your re-feed days may provide some benefit.
I'll have to think about it some more. but I'm a huge fan of carbs for muscle building (I implement keto only for short mini cuts and anti inflammatory diet reasons, NOT for performance reasons . . . unless you were a triathlete or something )

[Obs]

When your on a Ketogenic diet and in deep ketosis (ie, your brain is running efficiently on Ketones) the odds of you dying, going into a comma, or passing out from hypo-glycemia go WAY way down, nearly to zero. its almost impossible , why is this?

IF your not on Keto, then your brain has access to only one fuel source - glucose - the reason you hear of diabetics going into shock or a coma from an insulin over dose is because the insulin has driven their blood sugar down so low, that the brain no longer has a fuel source and begins to stop functioning (it can't function without fuel). it shuts down and a coma or death occurs.

IF you have Ketones in large supply in your body and your brain is already running off of Ketones, then thats the brains fuel source . NOT Sugar. so if you took to much insulin and drove blood sugar way way down. your brain would just still keep ticking along as normal because its running off of Ketones.

note: there is a study where people fasted for several days ( I think it was a week or so) and got into deep ketosis. They were given 20iu of insulin and closely monitored. Blood sugar levels dropped some but there was no ill effect on the brain at all .
again, because the brain was running on Ketones not sugar.

note- some people may ask . well when your in deep ketosis why do you have any glucose in your blood stream at all if your brain is not using it for fuel ? because there are certain cells in the body (not the brain) that can ONLY run on glucose alone and nothing else.. so your body has to always be producing glucose in order to keep these cells going (red blood cells are one example).


so YES you can run insulin while on keto. and your actually in a 'protected state' sort of speak.. I've actually thought about supplementing with exogenous Ketones while running insulin as a back up safety measure (but I've never had hypo glycemic issues and I have carbs available all the time) . but you can see where someone considering what I said above may find a way to implement dietary ketones in their protocols.


having said all that . I've found zero reason personally to run insulin on a Keto diet . now on a CKD or modified keto diet, using insulin for your re-feed days may provide some benefit.
I'll have to think about it some more. but I'm a huge fan of carbs for muscle building (I implement keto only for short mini cuts and anti inflammatory diet reasons, NOT for performance reasons . . . unless you were a triathlete or something )

Damn he rammed it in all at once!

[Capebuffalo]

Total for the day so far (3 meals )
Carb 326.5
Protien 96
Fat 16
Cals 925

Edit. (4)
Carb 374.5
Pro 122
Fat 36
Cals 1585

[GearHeaded]

2 hrs since 10:30

Blood was 1 hr after last shake.

ok if the blood sugar check happened only an hour after your meal , then thats a little too soon for a 'true' post perineal. at least 2 hours after is generally best. BUT having said that your already at a good post meal blood sugar of 116 . IF your in the 130s then you've taken in way too many carbs for the amount of insulin or your having some insulin resistance issues . IF your under 85, then your not taking in enough carbs for your insulin dosage.
you can try again in an hour , but I'm guessing your going to be within range (cause again your already below 130 at only 1 hour ... but need to see if you drop below 85)

[Capebuffalo]

ok if the blood sugar check happened only an hour after your meal , then thats a little too soon for a 'true' post perineal. at least 2 hours after is generally best. BUT having said that your already at a good post meal blood sugar of 116 . IF your in the 130s then you've taken in way too many carbs for the amount of insulin or your having some insulin resistance issues . IF your under 85, then your not taking in enough carbs for your insulin dosage.
you can try again in an hour , but I'm guessing your going to be within range (cause again your already below 130 at only 1 hour ... but need to see if you drop below 85)

Ok. Let me make sure I’m understanding.

Meal 1 7 am

Slin 5 ius. 7:30 am

Carb drink during wo

Slin. 10 ius 8 am

Shake. 8am

Meal. 9 am

Shake. 10 am

Meal 2. 12:30

You want me to check my glucose at 12 pm?

And if I’m in range does that mean I can increase my slin dose?

[charger69]

Ok. Let me make sure I’m understanding.

Meal 1 7 am

Slin 5 ius. 7:30 am

Carb drink during wo

Slin. 10 ius 8 am

Shake. 8am

Meal. 9 am

Shake. 10 am

Meal 2. 12:30

You want me to check my glucose at 12 pm?

And if I’m in range does that mean I can increase my slin dose?

Your going to get fat! LOL
The peanut gallery had to interject in the serious conversation.


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[Capebuffalo]

Your going to get fat! LOL
The peanut gallery had to interject in the serious conversation.


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If by fat you mean a beast you are right. I’ve got a crazy metabolism. And a physical job. Plus it’s coming on winter I need a layer of warmth.

[GearHeaded]

ok I'm trying to make sense of your schedule . you only workout between 7:30am and 8am ?

[Capebuffalo]

ok I'm trying to make sense of your schedule . you only workout between 7:30am and 8am ?

Correct. 7:30 usually 30-45 min.

[GearHeaded]

Correct. 7:30 usually 30-45 min.

ok makes sense... so I'd try and split your insulin dosages out just a wee bit further then. I knew your workouts were short but I didn't realize how tight together all the meals and dosages were.

so my idea. take your first insulin dose with your breakfast. which is at 7 . then you workout at 730 and take in your intra workout drink.
And, instead of having a post workout shake right at 8 and a meal at 9. can you combine these two into one meal at 8:30 and take your second injection at that time? and then have another meal at 10.
THEN, at about noon (right before your 1230 meal) you check you blood sugar and that gives you a true 2 hour post-perineal reading that is accurate AFTER you've already had the second insulin spike (which happens at about the 2-2.5 hour post injection time).

[Capebuffalo]

ok makes sense... so I'd try and split your insulin dosages out just a wee bit further then. I knew your workouts were short but I didn't realize how tight together all the meals and dosages were.

so my idea. take your first insulin dose with your breakfast. which is at 7 . then you workout at 730 and take in your intra workout drink.
And, instead of having a post workout shake right at 8 and a meal at 9. can you combine these two into one meal at 8:30 and take your second injection at that time? and then have another meal at 10.
THEN, at about noon (right before your 1230 meal) you check you blood sugar and that gives you a true 2 hour post-perineal reading that is accurate AFTER you've already had the second insulin spike (which happens at about the 2-2.5 hour post injection time).

Ok. Thank you. I like the timing of your way better. I was crowding a lot in there.

Would you still do the 5 ius then the 10 ius? Or do you think I could run 10 and 10. Would that make a big enough difference or only a minimal one.

[GearHeaded]

Ok. Thank you. I like the timing of your way better. I was crowding a lot in there.

Would you still do the 5 ius then the 10 ius? Or do you think I could run 10 and 10. Would that make a big enough difference or only a minimal one.

IF you can assimilate the carbs and not go hypo , then an extra 5iu will make a difference. especially if your trying to put on size.
you may even consider running another 5iu at a completely different time of the day.

example - me personally - I'm running 5iu of slin first thing in the morning when I wake up with 5iu of GH . BUT I don't workout until evening. Thats when my pre and post workout insulin comes in (10iu pre - 10-15 post). but the time frame from my pre and post can be hours.

[kelkel]

so my idea. take your first insulin dose with your breakfast. which is at 7 . then you workout at 730 and take in your intra workout drink.
And, instead of having a post workout shake right at 8 and a meal at 9. can you combine these two into one meal at 8:30 and take your second injection at that time? and then have another meal at 10.
THEN, at about noon (right before your 1230 meal) you check you blood sugar and that gives you a true 2 hour post-perineal reading that is accurate AFTER you've already had the second insulin spike (which happens at about the 2-2.5 hour post injection time).

Damn GH. It's like a full time job!

[GearHeaded]

Damn GH. It's like a full time job!

yeah you can make it that way no doubt .. add in HGH injections thoroughout the day , and peptides on top of that.. its a job for sure.

but , you can keep it simple. 10iu slin pre-workout with intra workout nutrition and thats it. just think of it as a 'pre-workout' routine.
OR, if your sensitive to going hypo. do 10iu of slin with your post workout nutrition and thats it.
you can make pretty easy

[Kay kay]

It’s really not. When I did rapid acting slin, I would do my shot (15-20iu), drink my shake about 20 mins later, (8g carb per iu), and then that’s it. That worked for me and I discovered no need to monitor or involve
Further meals after that. Many workout days I was doing a rapid shot before each meal.
It really gave me great results.

I’m really glad more people are opening to the idea of slin.

[Capebuffalo]

Anyone beside me ever read all of this?

https://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3...k-insulin.html

[charger69]

GH- I can’t be outdone by Cape, so I need to step up my game.
I work out 2 x / day. In the morning I do the major muscle groups and in the afternoon I do cardio (HIIT) and an isolated muscle (calves, forearms, abs and traps). I do traps to try and get as big as Obs. LOL
I am presently bulking with deca and test. I just dropped the anadrol and am thinking of using proviron. I use slin in the morning before and after the workout. Usually 10 iu’s. On leg day, I use 15 before and after.
Would I get any benefits from using slin in the evening too? I have used it for cutting (2-3 ius) in the evening, but never as I do in the morning for building muscle.

Will blood flow restriction training thrown in at the end synergize with the slin?

I’m not competitive at all.[emoji23][emoji23]


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[Capebuffalo]

GH- I can’t be outdone by Cape, so I need to step up my game.
I work out 2 x / day. In the morning I do the major muscle groups and in the afternoon I do cardio (HIIT) and an isolated muscle (calves, forearms, abs and traps). I do traps to try and get as big as Obs. LOL
I am presently bulking with deca and test. I just dropped the anadrol and am thinking of using proviron. I use slin in the morning before and after the workout. Usually 10 iu’s. On leg day, I use 15 before and after.
Would I get any benefits from using slin in the evening too? I have used it for cutting (2-3 ius) in the evening, but never as I do in the morning for building muscle.

Will blood flow restriction training thrown in at the end synergize with the slin?

I’m not competitive at all.[emoji23][emoji23]


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Gh. I can’t be out doneby that old man Charger. What can I do to stay ahead of him. He seems to be on a downward slide just FYI.

[charger69]

Gh. I can’t be out doneby that old man Charger. What can I do to stay ahead of him. He seems to be on a downward slide just FYI.

Those is feuding words!!


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[Capebuffalo]

Those is feuding words!!


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Good to know your hearing aid is in and I didn’t have to repeat myself.

[GearHeaded]

GH- I can’t be outdone by Cape, so I need to step up my game.
I work out 2 x / day. In the morning I do the major muscle groups and in the afternoon I do cardio (HIIT) and an isolated muscle (calves, forearms, abs and traps). I do traps to try and get as big as Obs. LOL
I am presently bulking with deca and test. I just dropped the anadrol and am thinking of using proviron. I use slin in the morning before and after the workout. Usually 10 iu’s. On leg day, I use 15 before and after.
Would I get any benefits from using slin in the evening too? I have used it for cutting (2-3 ius) in the evening, but never as I do in the morning for building muscle.

Will blood flow restriction training thrown in at the end synergize with the slin?

hey charger, I like your two a day routine you got going on. sounds well planned and I'm sure your executing it well.

the only very very small thing I would nit pick about it is that for mass gains , it would be just a little bit better if it was turned around. where you did your HIIT and isolated muscle groups in the AM , and then your main training and lifts in the PM.
but yeah understand you got to make it work how you can with your schedule.

YES. if you can afford adding in Proviorn to your cycles it will only help. its not much of an anabolic but it will just make everything else work better, so its 'indirectly' anabolic. what good is a gram of test per week if its all bound up by SHBG,, proviron will help make a lower dose of test work more effectively.

for mass and overall gains, I like using Slin pre and post workout like I've explained on this forum quite a bit. BUT I also like to add in one more insulin/nutrient surge during the day as well.. for me , timing wise, this works best first thing in the morning (I train in the evening). I take 5iu of HGh and 5iu of slin with a shake. this keeps me anti-catabolic and drives plenty of nutrients into the muscle cells to sustain me until I'm able to get more food and nutrients and training in later on that day.
for you, and your schedule may be quite opposite of mine. but if you can find a time, quite a ways separate then your normal insulin workout protocol, to take in more insulin and a shake (whey isolate, carbs, creatine, glutamine), then this will help you grow.

I've personally never utilized blood flow restriction with myself or any of my clients. I use something similar, "cell swelling work" where the concept is to keep as much blood and nutrients in the muscle as long as possible, similar to BFR training.
being insulin itself is in the blood, and so are all the nutrients that are needed for muscle building, getting as much as that blood to deliver these things to the muscle cells makes sense to me. . . so BFR training with insulin pre-workout should be a good strategy.

[Capebuffalo]

hey charger, I like your two a day routine you got going on. sounds well planned and I'm sure your executing it well.

the only very very small thing I would nit pick about it is that for mass gains , it would be just a little bit better if it was turned around. where you did your HIIT and isolated muscle groups in the AM , and then your main training and lifts in the PM.
but yeah understand you got to make it work how you can with your schedule.

YES. if you can afford adding in Proviorn to your cycles it will only help. its not much of an anabolic but it will just make everything else work better, so its 'indirectly' anabolic. what good is a gram of test per week if its all bound up by SHBG,, proviron will help make a lower dose of test work more effectively.

for mass and overall gains, I like using Slin pre and post workout like I've explained on this forum quite a bit. BUT I also like to add in one more insulin/nutrient surge during the day as well.. for me , timing wise, this works best first thing in the morning (I train in the evening). I take 5iu of HGh and 5iu of slin with a shake. this keeps me anti-catabolic and drives plenty of nutrients into the muscle cells to sustain me until I'm able to get more food and nutrients and training in later on that day.
for you, and your schedule may be quite opposite of mine. but if you can find a time, quite a ways separate then your normal insulin workout protocol, to take in more insulin and a shake (whey isolate, carbs, creatine, glutamine), then this will help you grow.

I've personally never utilized blood flow restriction with myself or any of my clients. I use something similar, "cell swelling work" where the concept is to keep as much blood and nutrients in the muscle as long as possible, similar to BFR training.
being insulin itself is in the blood, and so are all the nutrients that are needed for muscle building, getting as much as that blood to deliver these things to the muscle cells makes sense to me. . . so BFR training with insulin pre-workout should be a good strategy.

That being said. What would you recommend for me? Suggestion for bulk run?

[charger69]

That being said. What would you recommend for me? Suggestion for bulk run?

Eat a lot of candy, let your receptors rest (go off cycle), but keep up the carbs with beer.
Absolutely no slin. It is bad for you!
I just saved GH typing. LOL


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[Capebuffalo]

Eat a lot of candy, let your receptors rest (go off cycle), but keep up the carbs with beer.
Absolutely no slin. It is bad for you!
I just saved GH typing. LOL


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Thanks for your input. Unfortunately I am no longer allowing negativity into my circle of life. You are herby banned to the shadow lands. Please enjoy your misery there. Best wishes Cape.

[GearHeaded]

That being said. What would you recommend for me? Suggestion for bulk run?

if you been on gear for the majority of the time over the last 6 months or so, and you been using a lot of the same gear , I'd try to mix it up with some things you haven't used or at least not in quite some time. and focus on synergy , stacking compounds not just because you like them, but because they enhance each other (eg., run a class 1 and a class 2 steroid together, instead of running just two class 2's together).

lets say you been using a lot of moderate dose test and tren as your main compounds over the last year or so. Well change it up where you go with a really low dose of Test, 200mg, stacked with other estrogenic and androgenic compounds and some Anaboics use. OR do the opposite where your running a very high dose of test, 1500mg, no other androgens, and some anabolics.

some examples

test - 200mg a week
Dbol - 100mg a day
Masteron - 100mg per day
NPP- 100mg per day
Insulin with test suspension

or
test - 1500mg per week
Superdrol - 30mg per day
Winstrol - 50mg per day
Npp- 100mg per day
insulin with HGH or a GHRPs

each of these have a good blend of estrogenic, androgenic, and anabolic properties. but achieving it in different ways.

example 1 - you don't get your androgenic nor your estrogenic basis from testosterone here, , your getting your estrogen from the Dbol and your androgenic effects from the Mast (which works as both an androgenic and anabolic). NPP is your main anabolic here.

example 2 - you are getting most of your androgenic and your estrogenic base from the 1500mg of test. so all we need to do here is add in a strong amount of anabolic. Superdrol, is probably the strongest in regards to anabolic to androgenic (its like 40x more anabolic then androgenic), then we add in the Winstrol as another anabolic for synergy (cause of its effects on SHBG) and then NPP again as our main anabolic.

Another idea, which would be similar to how I laid out 'phases' in the advanced AAS protocols thread, is to break it down where instead of having all three (androgen, estrogen, anabolic) ran in unison together in ONE cycle, you break it down and run each of those in its given phases (but this is a more long term effect where you repeat the phases over and over during consistent 6 week blasts).

[charger69]

if you been on gear for the majority of the time over the last 6 months or so, and you been using a lot of the same gear , I'd try to mix it up with some things you haven't used or at least not in quite some time. and focus on synergy , stacking compounds not just because you like them, but because they enhance each other (eg., run a class 1 and a class 2 steroid together, instead of running just two class 2's together).

lets say you been using a lot of moderate dose test and tren as your main compounds over the last year or so. Well change it up where you go with a really low dose of Test, 200mg, stacked with other estrogenic and androgenic compounds and some Anaboics use. OR do the opposite where your running a very high dose of test, 1500mg, no other androgens, and some anabolics.

some examples

test - 200mg a week
Dbol - 100mg a day
Masteron - 100mg per day
NPP- 100mg per day
Insulin with test suspension

or
test - 1500mg per week
Superdrol - 30mg per day
Winstrol - 50mg per day
Npp- 100mg per day
insulin with HGH or a GHRPs

each of these have a good blend of estrogenic, androgenic, and anabolic properties. but achieving it in different ways.

example 1 - your don't get your androgenic nor your estrogenic basis from testosterone here, , your getting your estrogen from the Dbol and your androgenic effects from the Mast (which works as both an androgenic and anabolic). NPP is your main anabolic here.

example 2 - you are getting most of your androgenic and your estrogenic base from the 1500mg of test. so all we need to do here is add in a strong amount of anabolic. Superdrol, is probably the strongest in regards to anabolic to androgenic (its like 40x more anabolic then androgenic), then we add in the Winstrol as another anabolic for synergy (cause of its effects on SHBG) and then NPP again as our main anabolic.

Another idea, which would be similar to how I laid out 'phases' in the advanced AAS protocols thread, is to break it down where instead of having all three (androgen, estrogen, anabolic) ran in unison together in ONE cycle, you break it down and run each of those in its given phases (but this is a more long term effect where you repeat the phases over and over during consistent 6 week blasts).

GH- I thought my cycle layout was better. LOL


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[Capebuffalo]

Great Charger youran GH off

[kelkel]

This is killing me. I'm pulling BW on Monday and if all is well starting something. Exactly what at this point is a toss up at the moment.

[Capebuffalo]

This is killing me. I'm pulling BW on Monday and if all is well starting something. Exactly what at this point is a toss up at the moment.

I’m coming for Charger first. Then I’m coming for you Kel ( insert long evil laugh)

[Capebuffalo]

This is killing me. I'm pulling BW on Monday and if all is well starting something. Exactly what at this point is a toss up at the moment.

I’m coming for Charger first. Then I’m coming for you Kel ( insert long evil laugh)

[Capebuffalo]

So GH what would the protocol look like for

test - 200mg a week
Dbol - 100mg a day
Masteron - 100mg per day
NPP- 100mg per day
Insulin with test suspension

[Capebuffalo]

So GH what would the protocol look like for

test - 200mg a week
Dbol - 100mg a day
Masteron - 100mg per day
NPP- 100mg per day
Insulin with test suspension

Mostly for the slin and suspension. Both pre and post workout?

[GearHeaded]

So GH what would the protocol look like for

test - 200mg a week
Dbol - 100mg a day
Masteron - 100mg per day
NPP- 100mg per day
Insulin with test suspension

Mostly for the slin and suspension. Both pre and post workout?

for slin and test suspension your protocol will stay very similar to what it is with the insulin now. the only difference is that you want to drop your pre-workout insulin dose back down to 5iu while running test suspension , until you get a feel for where your blood sugars run with the suspension mixed in (as the suspension is going to make you more insulin sensitive . . . ie.., with the test suspension in there you have more chance of going hypo).
You'll pin 100-200mg of suspension about 45 mins before your workout. then stick with your normal insulin protocol but with lower amounts of slin to start until you know your tolerance and know you won't go hypo

[Capebuffalo]

for slin and test suspension your protocol will stay very similar to what it is with the insulin now. the only difference is that you want to drop your pre-workout insulin dose back down to 5iu while running test suspension , until you get a feel for where your blood sugars run with the suspension mixed in (as the suspension is going to make you more insulin sensitive . . . ie.., with the test suspension in there you have more chance of going hypo).
You'll pin 100-200mg of suspension about 45 mins before your workout. then stick with your normal insulin protocol but with lower amounts of slin to start until you know your tolerance and know you won't go hypo

Got it. Thank you.

[Frank777]

Just read in the news that California will start producing own insulin in 2024.
I think it is a huge game changer, right?

I also read about it and I agree that this is great news. Being a diabetic, I know how many people require medication and how important insulin is for many of them (since I read about Ozempic Online and talked to my doctor, I switched to it and don't take insulin anymore). Moreover, Californian insulin is supposed to be cheaper.