Short heavy cyles explained- PB theory

[marcus300]

Greate post!

What do you think of the 2on 4off theory. Yust read a case study with "Bill Roberts", (hes client seemed to have make more progress with only 4 weeks on,than he ever could achieved "natrually".)

I guess the benefit here would be that you recover HPTA very quikly.....

Ive seen the same thing recentley, looks intresting and will be trying it out, i do have BB's who run 20 days cycles with great resuts,
correct the benefit is recovery with same results as a long cycle.

cheers for your commets
marcus

[stupidhippo]

I agree with that logic but I meant about its effect on the lipid profile, I was talking about that.. IMO the biggest long term risk of steroid use aint HRT.. I am not an expert and I am curious.. Thats why I asked has anybody taken frequent blood profiles and Im especially interested in the lipid profile. Im looking into new ideas and if indeed it would be so that this type of cycling would be less damaging to the lipid profile as a whole (in long term) it might be safer IMO. Im not doubting this kind of cycling would be effective.. that makes perfect sense for me.

[AleX-69]

I agree with that logic but I meant about its effect on the lipid profile, I was talking about that.. IMO the biggest long term risk of steroid use aint HRT.. I am not an expert and I am curious.. Thats why I asked has anybody taken frequent blood profiles and Im especially interested in the lipid profile. Im looking into new ideas and if indeed it would be so that this type of cycling would be less damaging to the lipid profile as a whole (in long term) it might be safer IMO. Im not doubting this kind of cycling would be effective.. that makes perfect sense for me.

I had bloodwork done the last cycle after 3 weeks in. The HDL / LDL ratio was way off. So i don't think short cycles can prevent worsening of the blood lipid profile.
But I think the real benefit lies in the short amount of time the lipid profile is actually bad. As i believe it takes some time until fatty deposits build up in the arteries and therby causing adverse health effects (i.e. arteriosclerosis).

[needbigguns]

Not trying to hi-jack but how about Short Moderate cycles as opposed to Heavy...do they work, dos anyone have any experiance with them ? Im interested tp try a shorty but am not yet advanced enough to use very high dosages...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=225674

I like the idea of being able to cycle throughout the year more safely...Is there any evidence to prove this ?

I also enjoy being on and i think its easyer to train intensly for 1 month solid with everything in check that 12 weeks,

[fitguy]

Not trying to hi-jack but how about Short Moderate cycles as opposed to Heavy...do they work, dos anyone have any experiance with them ? Im interested tp try a shorty but am not yet advanced enough to use very high dosages...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=225674

I like the idea of being able to cycle throughout the year more safely...Is there any evidence to prove this ?

I also enjoy being on and i think its easyer to train intensly for 1 month solid with everything in check that 12 weeks,

i was wondering the same thats why i asked for a cycle sample to know if the doses suit me or not thats all, i am not a newbie and having only a few posts on this site doesnt make me a newbie , i am a member on many other sites . i dont also consider myself advanced by anymeans thats why i was wondering if someone can apply this cycling type using lower doses and thats why i asked for a a sample cycle to be pm to me to get a rough idea of the doses and cycle layout..peace .

[Pinnacle]

i was wondering the same thats why i asked for a cycle sample to know if the doses suit me or not thats all, i am not a newbie and having only a few posts on this site doesnt make me a newbie , i am a member on many other sites . i dont also consider myself advanced by anymeans thats why i was wondering if someone can apply this cycling type using lower doses and thats why i asked for a a sample cycle to be pm to me to get a rough idea of the doses and cycle layout..peace .

2 cycles pretty much makes you a newbie still...sorry to break the truth to you.

02-13-2006, 06:00 PM
fitguy


[quote=booz]well remind us of your stats and training exp,cycle exp?

185 cm ,78-80 kilos, looking to gain a net of 8 kilos at least from this cycle,, i have done one sustanon only cycle b4 for 9 weeks at 500mg and another test cycle and dbol at 30 mg which i stopped for hairloss problems fro the dbol i guess..

[stupidhippo]

ok.. so imagine then that if u get back on after say 30 days it ends up so that ur levels are gonna be way off for most of the time and that IMO could lead to an increased risk.. So which is better.. doing a 3 month cycle were ur values are off for about that long and then being off for the same amount leaving some time for normaliztion and more importantly time when they stay normal.. or then the short way.. I really dont know but am interested in opinions.

[marcus300]

ok.. so imagine then that if u get back on after say 30 days it ends up so that ur levels are gonna be way off for most of the time and that IMO could lead to an increased risk.. So which is better.. doing a 3 month cycle were ur values are off for about that long and then being off for the same amount leaving some time for normaliztion and more importantly time when they stay normal.. or then the short way.. I really dont know but am interested in opinions.

If you are on for a shorter time and you have good time off there would be less risk, ive read a study somewhere which mentions this, if your on for a long time there is increase risk to all the health problems but if you can attack the body with a shorter period and still gets results as you would with a long cycle, which one would you choose.
All the blood work results what ive seen have all been fine with correct time off

[stupidhippo]

If you are on for a shorter time and you have good time off there would be less risk, ive read a study somewhere which mentions this, if your on for a long time there is increase risk to all the health problems but if you can attack the body with a shorter period and still gets results as you would with a long cycle, which one would you choose.
All the blood work results what ive seen have all been fine with correct time off

I agree with this: shorter time on and a good time off and it should be ok BUT how long is good time off.. Is 4 weeks on 4 weeks off really enough or is it the maintenance type of cycle in between that in a way lengthens the time off (if u look at it that way).. I agree very interesting thread..

[AleX-69]

I agree with this: shorter time on and a good time off and it should be ok BUT how long is good time off.. Is 4 weeks on 4 weeks off really enough or is it the maintenance type of cycle in between that in a way lengthens the time off (if u look at it that way).. I agree very interesting thread..

____________________-

Reduction in high density lipoproteins by anabolic steroid (stanozolol) therapy for postmenopausal osteoporosis.

Taggart HM, Applebaum-Bowden D, Haffner S, Warnick GR, Cheung MC, Albers JJ, Chestnut CH 3rd, Hazzard WR.

The effects of stanozolol, 17-methyl-2H-5 alpha-androst-2-eno [3,2-c] pyrazol-17 beta-ol, on lipoprotein levels were assessed in a short-term (6 wk) prospective study of 10 normolipidemic, postmenopausal, osteoporotic women. While total cholesterol and triglyceride levels remained constant, equal and offsetting responses were seen in low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (+30.9 +/- 28.1 mg/dl [mean +/- S.D.], p less than 0.01, a 21% increase) and high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol (-32.5 +/- 11.9 mg/dl [mean +/- S.D.], p less than 0.001, a 53% decline). Hence the LDL/HDL ratio increased dramatically, from 2.5 +/- 0.7 to 6.8 +/- 2.5. Within HDL, stanozolol was associated with a greater decline in HDL2 (from 26.0 +/- 7.4 mg/dl to 3.8 +/- 1.9 mg/dl, p less than 0.001, an 85% decrease) than HDL3 (which diminished from 35.7 +/- 3.2 to 24.1 +/- 5.8 mg/dl. p less than 0.001, a 35% decrease). The major HLD apolipoproteins also declined (A-I by a mean of 41% and A-II by 24%, both p less than 0.001). Postheparin hepatic triglyceride lipase increased (off treatment 74 +/- 42 nmole free fatty acid min-1 mole-1, on treatment 242 +/- 110, n = 6, p = 0.06). All changes were reversed by 5 wk following termination of the drug. These lipoprotein changes suggest caution in the long term prescription of stanozolol, particularly in those without overriding clinical indications for its use.

_____________________________

Regarding this study 4 weeks off may not be enough.. A longer off period would be apropiate it seems.
Really good questions stupidhippo. I appreciate that!

[AleX-69]

@ fitguy

if you really insist on doing another cycle b4 you reach your natural limit look here

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=225586

all your questions are answerd there. If you would have read this thread carefully you'd know that!

[AleX-69]

The short way is better IMHO, simply beacause i think i takes time to build up fatty depositis in the ateries. --> The longer your lipid profile is shitty the more adverse health effects you get.

But i don't know if i am right on this one...

[Booz]

this thread is a great read,it does not need deleting,marcus knows the newbs from the old hands!
no worries murries!!

[marcus300]

this thread is a great read,it does not need deleting,marcus knows the newbs from the old hands!
no worries murries!!

Thanks booz for your support and comments,

[goose]

Nice posts Alex!!


goose4..

[primetime1]

alex: great post also, its sounds more appe****g to me for my possible next cyc.

[AleX-69]

thx guys! I appreciate iT!

[marcus300]

Emailed a friend last night who had his bloodwork done after 6 weeks fininshing a short heavy cycle the lipid profile included total cholesterol, HDL-cholesterol LDL-cholesterol and triglycerides he said it was all normal, under a long cycle he said it would take him alot longer to recover.

[marcus300]

At the moment there is alot of discussion regarding short cycles weather heavy/light/moderate, One of the factors which make short cycling so effective is the priming of the body, any short cycles will benefit from such practice, If this is done correctly than the speed of building muscle tissue can be done over a shorter period, also priming isnt just for short cycles any cycle can benefit from such practice.

marcus

[primetime1]

"When you are priming you must up your protein and aminos to compensate any catabolism"

marcus: when you say priming, you are just talkin about the diet portion or is there more details to the priming phase?

if one were to keep the diet consistantly clean and correcltly macroed for the indivual would this priming process be neccessary?

[marcus300]

"When you are priming you must up your protein and aminos to compensate any catabolism"

marcus: when you say priming, you are just talkin about the diet portion or is there more details to the priming phase?

if one were to keep the diet consistantly clean and correcltly macroed for the indivual would this priming process be neccessary?

You diet down and lose fat, just like a comp diet or i prefer to cycle my carbs 3 low 1 high this will create a very anabolic emviroment for muscle tissue to grow, the muscle receptors get highly excitable and upgrade and able to accept more glucose and because glucose levels are not full in the muscle the result is more deposited into the muscle when you start the cycle and increase the food,this enviroment builds muscle tissue very quickley, if this is done correcty and timed right when you start the cycle, growth is amazing,

i prefer cycling my carbs 3 days low(40% less than normal) 1 day high (15% higher than normal), i feel this is'nt to harsh on your muscle tissue and the 1 high carb day offsets any potential metobolic slowdown, which is extremely usefull in laying down metobolic boosting muscle or at least saving it. the high carb/low carb rotational diet upgrades the receptors cites on muscle tissue for insulin, this changes the bodys ability to store carbs as glycogen rather than fat.

[AleX-69]

@ primetime

you may also want to look at the UD 2.0 diet which is rather complex but also excelent for priming..IMO.

[Spyder]

I don't understand why these kind of cycles are not ideal for bodybuilders at top levels, wasn't dorian one of them?

[AleX-69]

Heavy burst cycling is in fact very well suited for competitive BB's. I think you mixed up comments on low dose short cycling & heavy dose short cycling.
Those are 2 diffrent approaches to the same theory.

regards

[Spyder]

Heavy burst cycling is in fact very well suited for competitive BB's. I think you mixed up comments on low dose short cycling & heavy dose short cycling.
Those are 2 diffrent approaches to the same theory.

regards

Yeh i just noticed, my bad.

[primetime1]

marcus, thanks for breakin down the priming part i appreciate it. when you are done priming do you continue to cycle your carbs like that? or do you eat to grow? (clean)
alex, where can i find info on that diet?

really dig the info on this thread, im leaning towards a 6 weeker for my next run in sept. so thanks to all who contributed.

[IBdmfkr]

Primetime, the priming process leads up until the cycle starts, then you eat like an animal.

[marcus300]

Primetime, the priming process leads up until the cycle starts, then you eat like an animal.

couldnt of put it better myself

[primetime1]

thanks for that last bit of info bro, much apprecaited.. i was figuring that when you actually went on, that youd have to eat to feed the muscles, but wasnt sure.

[AleX-69]

@ primetime

Warrior is also "UD 2.0ing". He's keepin his log right here on AR as the forums on www.bodyrecomposition.com are rather unfriendly

He has outlined some basics of the diet in his thread:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=219868


Nevertheless there is an e-book / book concering UD 2.0 by lyle mcdonald. It is certainly worth reading..

[primetime1]

alex, thanks for the additional info, im goin to take a look into that tonight.

[mmaximus25]

Bump

[marcus300]

MMaximus25, have you tried this way of cycling or are you considering it?

[mmaximus25]

I think I understand the priming part more or less now. You are getting your body metabolically ready for the large calories to come. The large calories are taken in such a shorter period your MBR is able to stay fairly high.

I have two methods of my diet, but for normal cycles… I get my BF down to the lowest possible by a regimen of moderate protein/carb 1day, lower carb/high protein for 2 days then moderate protein / high carb... repeat
Then while on I do a 2wk high cal (rich fats, processed carbs are ok) into a 2wk moderate but all whole food (low fat, whole carbs). The 2weeks are just enough to sustain my high BMR. (This is a diet based on the average body takes about two weeks for your Metabolism to change to any new diet, by the end of the high cal 2 wks your BMR starts to slow down, you then switch to a clean low fat whole food, where by the end you BMR is high again, going back and forth pushs your nutrient absorption hopefully higher and higher)

After one cycle my body is so use to the high cal that when I restrict the fat for those 2wks I start leaning up very quickly, BMR churning so by the time I get back to the high cal I'm absorbing a high percentage of nutrients. This type of calorie cycling is effective for me

I'm very interested about this cycling method but still think it is much too advanced for me personally. I think I will do a larger dose cycle at the end of this year but don’t think it will be a mega dose.

I'm currently on a semi-experimental dietary regimen that has to do with whole foods.

[marcus300]

I think I understand the priming part more or less now. You are getting your body metabolically ready for the large calories to come. The large calories are taken in such a shorter period your MBR is able to stay fairly high.

I have two methods of my diet, but for normal cycles… I get my BF down to the lowest possible by a regimen of moderate protein/carb 1day, lower carb/high protein for 2 days then moderate protein / high carb... repeat
Then while on I do a 2wk high cal (rich fats, processed carbs are ok) into a 2wk moderate but all whole food (low fat, whole carbs). The 2weeks are just enough to sustain my high BMR. (This is a diet based on the average body takes about two weeks for your Metabolism to change to any new diet, by the end of the high cal 2 wks your BMR starts to slow down, you then switch to a clean low fat whole food, where by the end you BMR is high again, going back and forth pushs your nutrient absorption hopefully higher and higher)

After one cycle my body is so use to the high cal that when I restrict the fat for those 2wks I start leaning up very quickly, BMR churning so by the time I get back to the high cal I'm absorbing a high percentage of nutrients. This type of calorie cycling is effective for me

I'm very interested about this cycling method but still think it is much too advanced for me personally. I think I will do a larger dose cycle at the end of this year but don’t think it will be a mega dose.

I'm currently on a semi-experimental dietary regimen that has to do with whole foods.

I have a few ways of priming and the one which i prefer is cycling my carbs 3-4 days low (40% less than normal) 1 day high carb (15% more than normal) this method works really well for me, or i slowly reduce my carbs over a period of about 10-12 weeks which gives me a good base to work from when i do start such a high dose cycle.

[vitor]

I am going to do this type of cycling in my next run...

Havent decided if it will be the 2on 4off(outlined by Bill Roberts)or if its going to be a 4-weeker. I will probaly try both and see what works best for me.

I am really tired of being on for 12 weeks, then desperatly try to hold on to the gains with natrual test-levels for the next 12 weeks+PCT, which is impossible once you get over your genetic limit.

The short-burst cycling makes more sense to me.

[marcus300]

I am going to do this type of cycling in my next run...

Havent decided if it will be the 2on 4off(outlined by Bill Roberts)or if its going to be a 4-weeker. I will probaly try both and see what works best for me.

I am really tired of being on for 12 weeks, then desperatly try to hold on to the gains with natrual test-levels for the next 12 weeks+PCT, which is impossible once you get over your genetic limit.

The short-burst cycling makes more sense to me.

Please keep me updated on your progress victor...

[vitor]

Please keep me updated on your progress victor...

Sure...

[Booz]

this still continues to be a great thread marcus......

[montysimon]

This way of usuing AAS should be used with extreme caution no matter what your level of AAS knowledge/experience.It is also imperative that a physician is consulted prior to and at regular intervals during such.
I am aware of at least one fellow BB who's sudden DEATH was attributed directly to extremely high levels of AAS,thus leading to liver toxicity levels exceeding the body's capability to maltisculate.

This guy WAS 31 and left a wife and two young children.

Anyone considering shory heavy cycles please take heed.