Estrogen Will It Effect My Gains

[dupa95]

to the top

[Merc..]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[dupa95]

to the top

[Merc..]

to the top

[dupa95]

to the top

[dupa95]

to the top

[dupa95]

to the top

[dupa95]

to the top

[aer_vlad]

Very interesting thread.

First, I have never done a cycle, so now you know where I am coming from. I have no real experience. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can.

From what I have gathered, and what seems to be the general consensus of others, running an AI or SERM (such as Novladex) should be discouraged while on a cycle for maximum gains.

The most sensible option, atleast from what I can tell, is to have AI and/or SERM on hand (letro seems to be most popular) and use it only when symptons, such as gyno, appear.

The problem that I see with this, for example, is gyno symptoms appear while on your cycle. You administor letro ED and the symptoms go away. Later, the gyno symptoms appear, and once again, you use letro to combat gyno. This pattern repeats for the duration of the steroid cycle.

Now, using an AI as mentioned above seems to work - except wouldn't the constant and dramatic fluctuation in hormones (estrogen primarily, not to mention the induced testosterone) ... be detrimental to gains and perhaps exaggerate other symptoms?

I don't really know and am kind of taking a stab in the dark at something I have no experience with. It just seems really disadvantageous to be having the big ups and downs in estrogen and the effects of other hormones thereof.

Alright, well thanks.

[Merc..]

Very interesting thread.

First, I have never done a cycle, so now you know where I am coming from. I have no real experience. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can.

From what I have gathered, and what seems to be the general consensus of others, running an AI or SERM (such as Novladex) should be discouraged while on a cycle for maximum gains.

The most sensible option, atleast from what I can tell, is to have AI and/or SERM on hand (letro seems to be most popular) and use it only when symptons, such as gyno, appear.

The problem that I see with this, for example, is gyno symptoms appear while on your cycle. You administor letro ED and the symptoms go away. Later, the gyno symptoms appear, and once again, you use letro to combat gyno. This pattern repeats for the duration of the steroid cycle.

Now, using an AI as mentioned above seems to work - except wouldn't the constant and dramatic fluctuation in hormones (estrogen primarily, not to mention the induced testosterone) ... be detrimental to gains and perhaps exaggerate other symptoms?

I don't really know and am kind of taking a stab in the dark at something I have no experience with. It just seems really disadvantageous to be having the big ups and downs in estrogen and the effects of other hormones thereof.

Alright, well thanks.

Letro is very strong .. People seem to prefer using adex ( a weaker AI)..

No it is not going to be detrimental .. If someone is very gyno prone they should consider possibly using an AI for the entire duration of thier cycle ..

On the other hand people take drugs that they really dont need to take in the first place .. Drummer boy said it perfect.. Dont take meds unless you really need them ( see his post above )..

I have seen people do testosterone cycles using AI's for gyno protection , and then they run a cycle that does not include using an AI .. They end up never getting any gyno symptoms ( and they get a much better response to the steroids when dropping the AI (then have in past cycles, which included an AI ) .. This occurred due to the fact that they were driving thier estrogen levels down too low and , inturn , minimizing thier gains ..

So I have seen both .. alot of people that run an AI or SERM throughout their entire cycle to ward of gyno, ... As well as people that have an AI or SERM ( like nolva) on hand in case gyno symptoms arise while they are on cycle... And I have to say the diffrence in thier gains is amazing ... Like I said in my original post in this thread my friend that followed basically the same training and diet protocol when doing his cycles , and the only thing he really changed was doing a cycle with including an AI , and doing a cycle without using one.. The results were very diffrent .. The AI was limiting his gains ....

We are seeing this time and time again. Alot of people dont really understand the importance of the role estrogen plays in the muscle building process..

You hear over and over how estrogen is the enemy ( which is just not the case), and alot of people are making the mistake of trying to totally destroy it ...

I wanted to try and help get the correct info out to people because there is just so much misinformation out about men and estrogen that alot of people are unessarily taking an all and all out attack on estrogen ( without really understanding is its role) ..



Merc.

[Drummerboy]

There is no doubt about it Merc. Estrogen is KEY in mass building. Cutting estro just because "someone said so" is one of the problems with a forum where anyone gives advice. Parroting is BAD!! Cutting estro while bulking without needing to WILL REDUCE your gains. Ive ruined my fingertips typing to ppl over and over again... dont take medications UNLESS you need them! All the things you said about estro are correct for sure. IF you get gyno, bloat like HELL, try a little AI or serms. Read my sticky in PCT if you need to know what that is. ... IF your drying up AFTER you've bulked, maybe for competion, try controlling estrogen. If your bulking, estrogen will swell your muscles AND keep your joints much healthier! Its a powerful anti-inflamatory! If i cut estro, my elbows and shoulders got to hell, cant lift heavy. Only do i control it in PCT, or if i get itchy nipples. ESTROGEN IS GOOD when bulking! (again, unless your getting gyno etc) IMHO anyway.

~DB~

[meathead320]

Another little important thing about estradiol is its role in erectile function.

If you are taking any form of test with you cycle, and you are on an AI, and you are not getting morning wood, then you dropped your estradiol too low.

[Ronnie Rowland]

There is no doubt about it Merc. Estrogen is KEY in mass building. Cutting estro just because "someone said so" is one of the problems with a forum where anyone gives advice. Parroting is BAD!! Cutting estro while bulking without needing to WILL REDUCE your gains. Ive ruined my fingertips typing to ppl over and over again... dont take medications UNLESS you need them! All the things you said about estro are correct for sure. IF you get gyno, bloat like HELL, try a little AI or serms. Read my sticky in PCT if you need to know what that is. ... IF your drying up AFTER you've bulked, maybe for competion, try controlling estrogen. If your bulking, estrogen will swell your muscles AND keep your joints much healthier! Its a powerful anti-inflamatory! If i cut estro, my elbows and shoulders got to hell, cant lift heavy. Only do i control it in PCT, or if i get itchy nipples. ESTROGEN IS GOOD when bulking! (again, unless your getting gyno etc) IMHO anyway.


~DB~

Very well put Drummerboy! Also, anti-estrogens are un-healthy to take, they can make you feel really bad and they cost money that would be better spent elsewhere.

[Merc..]

There is no doubt about it Merc. Estrogen is KEY in mass building. Cutting estro just because "someone said so" is one of the problems with a forum where anyone gives advice. Parroting is BAD!! Cutting estro while bulking without needing to WILL REDUCE your gains. Ive ruined my fingertips typing to ppl over and over again... dont take medications UNLESS you need them! All the things you said about estro are correct for sure. IF you get gyno, bloat like HELL, try a little AI or serms. Read my sticky in PCT if you need to know what that is. ... IF your drying up AFTER you've bulked, maybe for competion, try controlling estrogen. If your bulking, estrogen will swell your muscles AND keep your joints much healthier! Its a powerful anti-inflamatory! If i cut estro, my elbows and shoulders got to hell, cant lift heavy. Only do i control it in PCT, or if i get itchy nipples. ESTROGEN IS GOOD when bulking! (again, unless your getting gyno etc) IMHO anyway.

~DB~

Good post DB .. Great sticky also ( I suggest everyone reads drummerboys sticky)......


Merc.

[shifty_git]

bump

[dupa95]

to the top

[shifty_git]

bump

[dupa95]

to the top

[shifty_git]

^^^^^^

[dupa95]

to the top

[shifty_git]

up up and away!

[dupa95]

to the top

[Mr Tick]

My wife is taking estrogen right now because her uterus lining was to thin. The other day she turned green grew to like 12 foot tall and through the sofa through the house and out the wall. Maby i should take a pill or 2 and get jacked up. J/K

But seriously i have told numorus people about this post merc. There always stunned when i tell them and always have to look it up for them selves.

[Merc..]

My wife is taking estrogen right now because her uterus lining was to thin. The other day she turned green grew to like 12 foot tall and through the sofa through the house and out the wall. Maby i should take a pill or 2 and get jacked up. J/K

But seriously i have told numerous people about this post merc. There always stunned when i tell them and always have to look it up for them selves.

Many people dont understand the importance of estrogen in the muscle building process .. There is alot of misinformation out there about estrogen..

People have been parroting how bad estrogen is for so many years on the message boards .. Alot of people only hear the negative things about estrogen , and acually go on a all and all out war trying to destroy it ...

I read it over and over again .. Not many people point out the postive effects that estrogen has on the boards , and in numerous articles I have read ....

You will hear alot about how people like the increased strength gains associated with an increased estrogen level, but you dont really hear alot about estrogen's role when it comes to building mass ..

I am very happy that this thread , as well as my article that was published ( from the contest I won) were so helpful to so many people.. I get alot of postive feedback from people about it all the time ....

Since so many people have found it to be helpful to them I will be ( more likely than not ) adding to my estrogen article and putting it in our new magazine ( Muscle Evolution USA)..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...scle+evolution



Merc.

[dupa95]

to the top

[dupa95]

to the top

[dupa95]

to the top

[dupa95]

to the top

[GOBAL]

STOP!!! dupa...

[WelshWarrior]

Hmm, Merc this is good reading. (It also answers another thread I started so I will let that die.)

It looks like my best tactic for forthcoming cycle is to keep the letro in the cupboard and just to keep it on hand. You seem to advocate letro in conjunction with tren, I'm presuming this would stand for deca also (19nor)?

Also do think I should be concerned about the lag of letro getting into your system at stable levels? (i.e. if it takes a while to build up does it leave a "window" where developing gyno is unhindered)

[Merc..]

Hmm, Merc this is good reading. (It also answers another thread I started so I will let that die.)

It looks like my best tactic for forthcoming cycle is to keep the letro in the cupboard and just to keep it on hand. You seem to advocate letro in conjunction with tren, I'm presuming this would stand for deca also (19nor)?

Also do think I should be concerned about the lag of letro getting into your system at stable levels? (i.e. if it takes a while to build up does it leave a "window" where developing gyno is unhindered)

Sup Welsh ,

Yea letro (or adex ) is good with any 19 nor ... Letro is strong and alot of people tell me they dont like it ...

I dont think letro needs to prior to starting your cycle .. You are referring to people that like to start the letro like 2 weeks prior to starting thier cycle( in order to let the letro reach a steady blood plasma level )...


Merc.

[dupa95]

to the top

[WelshWarrior]

Thanks, Merc.

Dupa, why do you bump this when it is already near the top?

[Merc..]

Thanks, Merc.

Dupa, why do you bump this when it is already near the top?

Keep me posted on your cycle results ....



Merc.

[WelshWarrior]

Keep me posted on your cycle results ....



Merc.

Will do, Cappen.

[dupa95]

to the top

[legobricks]

def. put this one back up top as well.

[shifty_git]

^^^^^^^^^^

[dupa95]

to the top

[WelshWarrior]

to the top

Dupa, you are an utter post whore.