Do you have any questions about the Bible?

[bulldawg_28]

I really hope I don't offend anyone by posting this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2zNJcPiIDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dvupiOb6D4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKd45wDcXEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZH8bgYlYjU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfLj0T_gzIg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sVtgOf1pUY


What's your opinion on this Magic?

[BuffThaStuff]

what do u have to say about the religion part in zeitgeist?
http://ssupload.com/media-355.html

[Swifto]

Thanks again.

Regarding your comments on creating us like robots.

It seems, from what your writing, its like god created man as an experiment. Like he was bored. Why would he create such inadequete beings? Why does he crave all mans fellowship, when it seems, he could destroy us and create another world immediately?

Is there an eternal war between god and satan?

[magic32]

Though, if we are born into sin, how does Christ escape the tainted birth of being Human?
He wasn’t born of man, just woman and God!
If you claim then that we aren’t sinners by birth then you must admit that humans have the capacity to not sin, for Christ had to do so?
“Capacity” means ability, aptitude, skill. A more accurate term would be “opportunity” which anyone on earth has. And His was tested by Satan himself, but since there was no sin in him, there was noting to relate to Satan's the offers.

• Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
• Mat 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.
• Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
• Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
• Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
• Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
• Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
• Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
• Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
• Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
• Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

THIS IS A SUPERB POINT:

For if Christ really wasnt fully human then his death on the cross meant nothing.

If He was God/the Son of God, then His time on earth was a lark, in that it would be NOTHING for God to endure life, pain, the suffering prior to and on the cross, or anything else this world throws at us.

Superb point...

...however, and I'd have to locate scripture here (SEE Mat 4:2 above), Jesus divested Himself of His Godhood, minus the miracles He performed (for our benefit ONLY) in order to legitimize the human experience. Thus, even though He was God, He limited or handicapped Himself as we would by putting a hand behind the back to box a 5-year old and this is why his trip was genuine. Sure He could have zapped down like Cpt. Kirk, but it had to be real, thus He had to be born as we are, and endure as we do. Great point though.

[buffgator]

Swifto God loves us and craves our companionship because we are his spirit offspring. We are his children and he loves us and wants us to grow and be nartured so that some day we can be exalted to live in his presence. Our spirits are the spiritual offspring of God, just like our bodies are the offspring of our physical parents.

[Swifto]

Swifto God loves us and craves our companionship because we are his spirit offspring. We are his children and he loves us and wants us to grow and be nartured so that some day we can be exalted to live in his presence. Our spirits are the spiritual offspring of God, just like our bodies are the offspring of our physical parents.

So what happens when we will all follow god? We all become believers (though I think this is impossible at this day/age)? Gods goal has been achieved? Or was this goal of gods created to be impossible?

[magic32]

I really hope I don't offend anyone by posting this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2zNJcPiIDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dvupiOb6D4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKd45wDcXEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZH8bgYlYjU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfLj0T_gzIg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sVtgOf1pUY


What's your opinion on this Magic?

No offenses are permitted in this thread!

This is why God wouldn’t permit Moses into the promised land. The people had begun to look to Him rather than God.

Sadly, many have fallen away from faith because the televangelist the placed trust in let them down.
We are to look only to Jesus, and seek to emulate Him not man, for even the greatest of men are flawed because they are men. The Bible constantly nails this point home:

• David was a great boy. Remember the whole Goliath thing? He became a great king, but was weak in the area of sexual immorality with Bathsheba. The difference is that David repented, which is far different that mere confession or prayer forgiveness in that repentance is of the heart, and one doesn’t go back into sin following it.
• David’s son Solomon (the wisest man to EVER live, according to God who bestowed it upon him) inherited that same problem with the ladies, and they (the foreign wives) eventually pulled his heart away from God.
• The great father Abraham permitted Sarah to convince him to be with her handmaid to conceive the expected heir rather than wait for God’s promise.
• Jonah fled to Tarusus, rather than go to Ninevah as God commanded…hence that belly of the whale story!
• And on and on.
  -----------------------------

• Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
  
• Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

[buffgator]

So what happens when we will all follow god? We all become believers (though I think this is impossible at this day/age)? Gods goal has been achieved? Or was this goal of gods created to be impossible?

I think of it as a process of elemitantion. Yes God created all of us, but we each have our own agency to chose good or evil. God can never take this agency from us. Gods whole plan is to see who will chose to return to live in his presence again. He knew that not all the spirits that he created would return, but he has to respect our agency to let us chose for ourselves. The devil was cast out of heaven because he wanted to gaurente God that he could make everyone return if he could just be allowed to force every one to do the things necessary to return. He also wanted the Glory to be his and not Gods. Christ said that he would go and do it the Gods way and allow the glory to be Gods.

[magic32]

Interesting questions.

Thanks again.

Regarding your comments on creating us like robots.

It seems, from what your writing, its like god created man as an experiment.
I don't know, but it would be the perrogative of a supreme being.

Like he was bored. Why would he create such inadequete beings?
Again, this is something you’ll have to ask Him, it’s not revealed in Scripture.

Why does he crave all mans fellowship, when it seems, he could destroy us and create another world immediately?
There is a verse that sums man’s purpose up quite well:

• Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

The word “crave” is inaccurate, God has no cravings for they imply need. But here’s a question, and I’m not equating us with pets, but why do you get them? And are they considered by most, Michael Vick excluded, as family?

Is there an eternal war between god and satan?
This is partly true.
When we think opposites we go, black:white; up:down; in/out; God:Satan. But the latter is wholly incorrect as Satan is a created being who exists at God’s discretion they are not equals. A better match for Satan would be Michael the arch angel. However, since His vanity caused satan to crave (some pun intended) worship, he has been seeking it ever since , and remember took with him 1/3 of all the angels in Heaven. So don’t think he isn’t supremely persuasive, forget that little devil on your shoulder, these angels knew for a fact God existed and basked in His presence and were still swayed.

• Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
  
• Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
  
• Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
  
• Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[Psychotron]

[/LIST]
THIS IS A SUPERB POINT:


If He was God/the Son of God, then His time on earth was a lark, in that it would be NOTHING for God to endure life, pain, the suffering prior to and on the cross, or anything else this world throws at us.

Superb point...

...however, and I'd have to locate scripture here (SEE Mat 4:2 above), Jesus divested Himself of His Godhood, minus the miracles He performed (for our benefit ONLY) in order to legitimize the human experience. Thus, even though He was God, He limited or handicapped Himself as we would by putting a hand behind the back to box a 5-year old and this is why his trip was genuine. Sure He could have zapped down like Cpt. Kirk, but it had to be real, thus He had to be born as we are, and endure as we do. Great point though.

Well, I guess I come back to the question again: are we born tainted with sin? If so, how was Christ not born with the same taintedness?

[BuffThaStuff]

was the emaculate conception even about jesus being born from mary or mary being born from her mother?

[magic32]

Let me be more concise.

Well, I guess I come back to the question again: are we born tainted with sin?
We were born in sin, as Adam's decendents we inherit his sin.

If so, how was Christ not born with the same taintedness?
Jesus was not born in sin because He wasn't born of man, but of the Holy Spirit.

[magic32]

was the emaculate conception even about jesus being born from mary or mary being born from her mother?

The former, Jesus was not concieved of sperm, hence the immaculate (clean, or in this case clear of sin meaning man's/Adam's).

[BuffThaStuff]

what do u have to say about the religion part in zeitgeist?
http://ssupload.com/media-355.html

bump

[buffgator]

Christ was born of man, if not he could not die. He had to be half man to die, and half God to be able to break the bonds of death through the resurection.

[BuffThaStuff]

The former, Jesus was not concieved of sperm, hence the immaculate (clean, or in this case clear of sin meaning man's/Adam's).

right but wouldnt that be the virginal conception and her being born from her 70 year old mother be the immaculate conception?

[Psychotron]

Christ was born of man, if not he could not die. He had to be half man to die, and half God to be able to break the bonds of death through the resurection.

From my understanding him being Fully God had nothing to do with his resurrection. The resurrection was the sign that God the Father accepted Christ's death as an atonement, or recompense(sp?) for the punishment for our sins.

[buffgator]

The resurrection was Christ breaking the bands of death that kept us from returning to live with God.

[magic32]

right but wouldnt that be the virginal conception and her being born from her 70 year old mother be the immaculate conception?

True that is a Roman Catholic belief.
But that just adds to the confusion and inconsequential, it contributes to the whole worship Mary doctrine. There is great precedent for older parents giving birth, Sarah was 90.
Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall [a child] be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

[BuffThaStuff]

True that is a Roman Catholic belief.
But that just adds to the confusion and inconsequential, it contributes to the whole worship Mary doctrine. There is great precedent for older parents giving birth, Sarah was 90.
Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall [a child] be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

so no other christians believe in the virginal and immaculate conception?

[Amorphic]

Zietgeist made some interesting points on religion as well. certainly made me think about things differently

[magic32]

From my understanding him being Fully God had nothing to do with his resurrection. The resurrection was the sign that God the Father accepted Christ's death as an atonement, or recompense(sp?) for the punishment for our sins.

You probably just mixed it up, that's simply not what resurrection means. It is to rise from the dead and though most often associated w/Jesus, the word has nothing to do with sin or atonement.

Main Entry: res•ur•rec•tion
Pronunciation: \ˌre-zə-ˈrek-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English resurreccioun, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin resurrection-, resurrectio act of rising from the dead, from resurgere to rise from the dead, from Latin, to rise again, from re- + surgere to rise — more at surge
Date: 14th century
1 a) capitalized : the rising of Christ from the dead b) often capitalized : the rising again to life of all the human dead before the final judgment c: the state of one risen from the dead

His death and shed blood was the atonement. If He'd never risen we'd still be cleansed because He gave His life as the sacrifice for ours.

[Psychotron]

so no other christians believe in the virginal and immaculate conception?

All Christians hold to mary being a virgin who gave birth to Christ.

[BuffThaStuff]

Zietgeist made some interesting points on religion as well. certainly made me think about things differently

yes i know thats what ive asked and even posted the movie...still waiting for an asnwer

[BuffThaStuff]

All Christians hold to mary being a virgin who gave birth to Christ.

doesnt answer my question

[magic32]

so no other christians believe in the virginal and immaculate conception?

It's immaterial.

Only the facts that she was a virgin, and had the proper bloodline mattered.

[BuffThaStuff]

It's immaterial.

Only the facts that she was a virgin, and had the proper bloodline mattered.

well it seems that alot of christians are believe in something thats not true...the immacualte conception is the birth from mary from her mother

[Psychotron]

His death and shed blood was the atonement. If He'd never risen we'd still be cleansed because He gave His life as the sacrifice for ours.

Don't see how that is possible. 1 Corinthians 15:12-18 says otherwise:

But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

[magic32]

From my understanding him being Fully God had nothing to do with his resurrection. The resurrection was the sign that God the Father accepted Christ's death as an atonement, or recompense(sp?) for the punishment for our sins.

The resurrection was only a sign to His followers that He had indeed risen. As far as He was concerned it was simply a step. A spirit can't literally die, so Christ simply stopped in for some to see and went home.

Of course God accepted the sacrifice, it was His plan for redemption.

[Amorphic]

magic you have your work cut out for you in this thread

[buffgator]

I disagree. The no one could return to live with God without the resuresction. The bands of death prohibited us to return to live with God. The death and resurection of christ allowes all men to over come the bands of death.

[magic32]

Don't see how that is possible. 1 Corinthians 15:12-18 says otherwise:

What you're saying is important but skewed.

Those verses speak of our faith in Him. I would be in vain had He not risen as he said, because it would mean that He was simply a man an subject to the power death...obviously not worthy of worship.

But as for our salvation that was purchased at Calvary, on the cross, by His blood, and death. Not afterwards.

[magic32]

magic you have your work cut out for you in this thread

Hey I'm just trying to help.

[Psychotron]

The resurrection was only a sign to His followers that He had indeed risen. As far as He was concerned it was simply a step. A spirit can't literally die, so Christ simply stopped in for some to see and went home.

Of course God accepted the sacrifice, it was His plan for redemption.

Hmmm... Sounds like were moving backwards here. Again, for the death on the cross to mean anything he must have been fully human, so then Christ had to suffer the punishment for our sins, which also must include Hell, and the sentencing of the spirit to Hell. From my understanding until his resurrection Christ was in Hell.

You also lead me to believe you don't view the resurrection as a physical one, but rather spiritual?

[BuffThaStuff]

tron is right jesus did go to hell before going to heaven

[magic32]

Hmmm... Sounds like were moving backwards here. Again, for the death on the cross to mean anything he must have been fully human, so then Christ had to suffer the punishment for our sins, which also must include Hell, and the sentencing of the spirit to Hell. From my understanding until his resurrection Christ was in Hell.

You also lead me to believe you don't view the resurrection as a physical one, but rather spiritual?

Okay we've both posited opinions, what do you say we get an honest tie breaker in here?

With regard to whether there was still redemptive work to be done after the cross, let us look directly towards the mouth Christ. Did He say "WAIT until I come back", or "It's ALMLOST done", or did He say it (my redemptive work on this planet) is finished?
Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

[thegodfather]

No offense, VERY good question.
I like your thinking, because it always starts with a premise.
It's true our bodies are temples (for the Holy Spirit).

• Jhn 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
• 1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Once again you're beginning with the presupposition that steroids are harmful, when if applied and administered properly they really aren't. Thus, if I'm SAFELY taking them to enhance my general well-being (physical, mental, etc.), and not abusing them by the actual definition (causing harm to myself or others) how can they be wrong?

You mentioned stealing and murder which do harm others, and marijuana (throw in alcohol, rec drugs, etc.) all of which cause potentially dangerous altered states or unnecessarily damage the body or it's cells. Steroids are medications designed to make one better, I simply manipulate them and the raw materials (nutrients) to make myself better.

Consider this magic32...Lets go with the premise that God designed all living things, biologically speaking. And, according to all of the evidence you have presented, Satan's influence is only on the psyche, and he has no ability to alter biology. Satan is an INFLUENCE, and therefore cannot directly facilitate changes..........contd below...

So, being that I study biology. There is something called the blood/brain barrier, this means that surrounding your brain&your CNS, very few things are able to pass through this barrier INCLUDING anti-biotics, and other things which we would view as helpful if we were sick. However, most drugs and specifically OPIATES have a HUGE affinity for passing through the blood/brain barrier. Humans, are essentially drug addicts by DESIGN. So can you please cite an explanation for this inherent human design? This is UNLIKE the monogamy argument, because although Satan may be able to influence. I am not speaking about CHOICES that people make. I am speaking from only a biological standpoint, that if I introduce an opiate into a human body, it will pass through the blood/brain barrier with absolutely no problem, and bind to the opiate receptor.....

[magic32]

tron is right jesus did go to hell before going to heaven

That's true but not complete the work.

[Psychotron]

Okay we've both posited opinions, what do you say we get an honest tie breaker in here?

With regard to whether their was still redemptive work to be done after the cross, let us look directly towards the mouth Christ. Did He say "WAIT until I come back", or "It's ALMLOST done", or did He say it (my redemptive work on this planet) is finished?
Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Well, I am not trying to say I was right, I am merely trying to understand.

In the end the resurrection shows us that Christ has conquered death, and our faith him gives us hope that he will redeem us from our death, it assures us of our faith.

As to his last words, depends on which book were reading, in one he yells out "Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?" Mark, in Luke he yells out "Father, into your hands I commit my Spirit" and I dont remember what Matthew says.

Edit: Matthew has it as the same as Mark.

[buffgator]

Okay we've both posited opinions, what do you say we get an honest tie breaker in here?

With regard to whether their was still redemptive work to be done after the cross, let us look directly towards the mouth Christ. Did He say "WAIT until I come back", or "It's ALMLOST done", or did He say it (my redemptive work on this planet) is finished?
Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

He said it is finished meaning the atonement was complete.