I also found the comment to be...off. Maybe I am misunderstanding it though.Originally Posted by MuscleScience
Senior Member
I also found the comment to be...off. Maybe I am misunderstanding it though.
Veni, Vedi, Vici.
Yes, both of you misunderstood my intention, sorry for using such word be couldn't find a better word.
The reason I said so, is because Germany is supporting Israel in what she is doing of massacres against Palestinians. Israel is re-doing the holocaust on Paletiniians and Germany is supportive of that, thats what I meant.
Last edited by smokethedays; 01-02-2009 at 01:59 PM.
Veni, Vedi, Vici.
That I don't think so bro, the only ignorance I see on here is when you and others like yourself support bunch of criminal Zionists butchering innocent civilians just because of some fvckin' bibilcal horse shit says the Jews are the people of god and the promise land...etc of this made up shit by the Jews themselves who translated the bible.
Senior Member
Dear beloved brother, MuscleScience is not a Zionist. His comments have been fair and balanced. Let's give the people room to breath, God Willing. We cannot expect them to hold all our views. In fact, I encourage him to read the view of the Zionists, because I strongly believe that ONLY through hearing their views can he see the strength in our position and the weakness in theirs (the Zionists).
Forgive me for admonishing you, but let us both encourage us to good action.
Fi Aman Allah
AR's Hot British Pimp Daddy ~HOF~
I have to say i have really enjoyed this thread, the debate has been informative. Most people here seem well educated on this subject, far more so than me, but ive learnt alot.
Its a shame there arnt more people like you guys. Im a member of a number of other boards where the views are to say the least, the opposite to those shared here, and im fighting the battle on my own, but fu.k them...
Knowledgeable Member
It seems to me that Hamas could give a shit about the people dying and are more concerned with their wounded pride.
This is a tragedy, which I can only see resolved when one side has utterly decimated the other...and we all know Hamas doesn't have the capabilities to do that to Israel.
Senior Member
Kind of like the early American pioneers decimated the Native Americans? Might is right?
"How oft, by God's will, hath a small force vanquished a mighty one?" (Quran, 2:249)...and we all know Hamas doesn't have the capabilities to do that to Israel.
EDIT: I don't believe in Hamas's war policy (which I believe is against the doctrines of our faith); I simply mean that the Palestinian people--and the Muslims in general--will liberate Palestine.
Last edited by BuffedGuy; 01-02-2009 at 06:40 AM.
Knowledgeable Member
Point number 1: I never said might was right, but it's always how the world has worked.
Point number 2: Well Hamas can keep telling themselves that. When they finally realise it's the 21st Century, then maybe they'll see what they are doing is utterly futile. Trust me, I think it's blatantly wrong what Israel is doing to Gaza, but Hamas care nothing for the rights of your average Palastinian. They're still living in the dark ages. Both sides are as bad as the other.
Point number 3: I would love to see Gaza left alone by Israel. What do you mean by "liberate", do you not wish to live in peace side by side with the Jews?
Last edited by Flagg; 01-02-2009 at 07:08 AM.
Senior Member
Peace be unto you, Flagg.
I guess we will have to disagree on this. I believe in God, and I believe that even if all the people in the world gathered together in unison, they could not overcome His Decree. I believe that many mighty nations were defeated by God, who were more powerful in the land than Israel. But alas, this is a matter of faith, and so let us agree to disagree, God Willing. No offense.
I also agree that what Hamas is doing is futile, and we--the orthodox Muslims--warn them severely about this.Point number 2: Well Hamas can keep telling themselves that. When they finally realise it's the 21st Century, then maybe they'll see what they are doing is utterly futile.
I disagree with Hamas's methodology, but this does not mean that I do not feel for the Palestinian people in generality. I do NOT at all think there is a moral equivalence between the Palestinians and the Zionist state of Israel. There is an oppressor and there is an oppressed. When the American pioneers vanquished the Native Americans, the oppressors were the Americans and the oppressed were the Native Americans. Just because some of the Native Americans--a good deal of the young ones--resorted to terror tactics did not at all negate the fact that the Native Americans were the oppressed party. The invader is responsible for whatever happens as a result of his invasion. If some of the occupied peoples resort to terror tactics (as inevitably happens in any invasion), then the blame is on the invader, and the occupied people cannot be blamed for that. If I rob a bank and in the commission of the crime one of the police officers accidentally shoots a bystander, then *I* am to blame since had I not chosen to rob the bank, none of this would have happened.Trust me, I think it's blatantly wrong what Israel is doing to Gaza, but Hamas care nothing for the rights of your average Palastinian. They're still living in the dark ages. Both sides are as bad as the other.
We were living in peace side-by-side for hundreds of years. The Jews used to flee persecution in Europe to live in safety in Muslim lands. The Jews had their golden age in the Muslim ruled Andalusia. As Rabbi Dovid Weiss of Neturei Karta (Jews against Zionism) said:Point number 3: I would love to see Gaza left alone by Israel. What do you mean by "liberate", do you not wish to live in peace side by side with the Jews?"We as Jews, as practicing Jews, have been living side by side in all the Muslim countries amongst the Arab peoples. We have no problem. The problem is purely political since the creation of this movement, Zionism, which became ultimately the State of Israel."So we wish to return to that state of affairs, before Israel was created and before the colonial British forces occupied our lands. We wish to regain our sovereignty and the right to rule our own land. The Jews will be respected and considered a protected people under our rule, just as was the case before the British and Zionist occupation of our lands.
( http://english.ohmynews.com/articlev...07736&rel_no=1 )
In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.
Last edited by BuffedGuy; 01-02-2009 at 07:21 AM.
Senior Member
By the way, I don't want my last post to be construed as a rant against Americans. I have nothing against Americans. A lot of them are great people. And the country of America has a lot of greatness and things I admire. However, the foreign policy is oppressive and must be changed. And I believe that this would be in line with the ideology of the Founding Fathers, who wanted America to be a peace-loving and neutral country, not a warlike colonial state, which was what the Founding Fathers were fleeing!
~AR-Elite-Hall of Famer~
I think thats what most of us Americans want to, but we have a faction of people that believe that our Constitution is out of date and should be molded to fit popular whims, instead of being the guiding light of our policy and morality.
BTW, I was done with this thread because of all the blatant jew hating (im not jewish mind you) now I am interested in it again because of yours and others recent intelligent post. I wish that there was a jewish perspective on this issue because I believe some of the arguments are one sided. (not pointing out anyone specific)
Senior Member
Peace be unto you, MuscleScience.
Thank you very much for your kind words.
I agree.
In fact, this is true even of Jewish Americans, who actually tend to be liberal progressives. They did a poll recently and found that the vast majority of them wanted peace AND supported the idea of a Palestinian state side-by-side with Israel, something that the Zionists have been preventing for decades. I also think that if they were explained the issue of the Right of Return, I believe that many of them would support it and even demand it.
I read an article written by a liberal Jew who basically said that the Zionists are very powerful in Washington (due to AIPAC) but that they don't faithfully represent the sentiments of Jews in general. (Having said that, there are no doubt many Zionist Jews in America.)
My point is that it is not fair to "Jew bash". However, I *do* "Zionist bash", because to me, Zionism is like Nazism and thus fair game. And the United Nations agreed that Zionism is racism when it passed the General Assembly Resolution 3379, which was in effect for almost twenty years, until pressure from the USA (bowing to AIPAC's immense pressure) caused it to be scrapped.
I agree with you that we should not Jew bash and I urge everyone to stay away from that. God says in the Quran:BTW, I was done with this thread because of all the blatant jew hating (im not jewish mind you)
"Let not the hatred of a people towards you move you to commit injustice." (Quran, 5:8)
We must stop the cycle of hatred. The Nazis were racist towards Jews, then the Zionist Jews were in turn racist to the Arabs, and then now some of my fellow Arab brethren have turned into racists against Jews...we must break this cycle.
As the Quran says:
"Every soul will reap the fruits of its own deeds; no soul shall bear another's burden." (Quran, 6:164)
So if one Jew does something wrong, then we oppose that one Jew, not all of the Jews in the world. If one Arab does something wrong, then we oppose that Arab, not all the Arabs in the world.
I know this is a concept that Americans cherish, and generally they are good about avoiding racism.
Thank you very much.now I am interested in it again because of yours and others recent intelligent post.
If you'd like to be an *expert* on the topic, then I suggest reading "The Fateful Triangle", written by the Jewish Noam Chomsky, who is a genius professor at MIT.I wish that there was a jewish perspective on this issue because I believe some of the arguments are one sided. (not pointing out anyone specific)
Although I understand the need of healthy debate, I believe that Zionists have no truthful arguments to defend their tenuous position, just as Nazis wouldn't.
In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.
Last edited by BuffedGuy; 01-02-2009 at 09:49 AM.
Veni, Vedi, Vici.
Why do you think this thread is Jew hating?!!
Its condmening Israel for its doings, thats all. I don't see any hate, no one said the Jews must be killed, butchered, or exiled.
You are just making excuses because of the overwhelming evidences that Israel is nothing more than war criminal and illegal state.
Senior Member
You know i have always heard ( the quotations in this thread and my GF) that the quaran has some very insightful writing in it. What i always fail to understand is if this book is full of peace and knowledge and insight where do the poeple get their anger from. How to the extremist use this book to teach false jihad (if you may). How can it teach to be intolerant of other religions. I know there is some things in there that tell anyone who is not a muslim doesnt go to heaven and it is a duty for muslims to convert people but i dont think its suppose to force people.
Veni, Vedi, Vici.
Extrimists exist in all religions and they always interpert the vague messages the wrong way, just like crusaders and zionists. I don't believe or think that there is any religion encourages killing.
About the part in bold, Im not sure what is the correct explanation of that, I forgot. But Buffed Guy can answer that for sure in his thread.
The duty thing, it is not a duty to convert other, it is a duty to inform thme about Islam and it is their RIGHT to choose after they had been informed.
~AR-Elite-Hall of Famer~
They also support an independent Palestine.
Yes, name calling is ignorant!!!
I do not believe I ever said I supported what Israel was doing all I did was question you calling them a war criminal. I was just pointing out that both sides are to blame for the current situation.
You think I am against you because I question you. You then revert to defensive measures, jump to conclusions and put words in my mouth. That is human nature and I do not fault you for that.
My Grandfather use to have a saying of some people, "Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall,"
Which basically means in english that everyone is arrogant until the are proven wrong. (Fall) He told me to keep that in mind when I disagreed with people. He would say both sides believe they are right until one is proven wrong.
I am simply pointing out that there are two sides to every story, being unipolar to one side ignores the problem and does not lead to any meaningful solution.
I think when someone makes insulting comments towards another people that is in-fact hateful. As I made it a point of pointing it out. I was not referring to anyone specific.
Last edited by MuscleScience; 01-02-2009 at 07:30 PM.
Veni, Vedi, Vici.
I already apologized about the word, if you don't accept that, then thats your problem.
sorry bro, but you are a LIER, because I didn't say a single hateful/Insulting word that I didn't already apologize for because it was a mistake. Point it out if you could, I dare you.
Senior Member
Why do you think america support the so called Zionist view. Do you agree that when extremist attack in America or American intrests wouldnt that only push americans and America to have even more support for the jewish state. Dont they realize this?
What do they hope to achieve when they plan these little attacks like shooting rockets through the border or blowing up a bus or hotels with Americans Israelis in other countries.
I am sure they aware of the strength of Israel military. So by doing these little actions, why do they jeaopardize their own people (innocent Muslims in Palestine regions).
Obviously by alot of the post made by you and other Muslims, its obvious that you know the history of your people and can predict outcomes. Don't these extremists care about the people especially innocent Muslim children that will die with their tactics. In every religion that i know of, children are considered to be closest to god. Dont they know by continuing tactic they are endangering their own children.
Last edited by gst528i; 01-02-2009 at 08:16 PM.
physical pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside... The pain of quiting will lasts forever!!
"Zwar weiß ich viel, doch möchte ich mehr wissen "
DID YOU JUST SWEAR AT ME... HU? HU?(kidding) he he he lol - what does that say?
~AR-Elite-Hall of Famer~
My german is a bit shaky so I may have told everyone to f- off....LOL, hence I havent spoke it in over ten years.
But from what I remember what its means which is not a literal translation to english: As much as I know, I wish I knew more.
Senior Member
I say let them kill each other..... im not a fan of either party involved and it'll create some light hearted entertainment for the History channel to broadcast in years to come.
Member
I hope for terrible things to happen to many of your family members, and you not be able to do a single thing about it but watch.
Then, I hope they make an entertaining Discovery channel show that runs for many years for you to watch over and over again.
Senior Member
What a retarded comment, you worked overtime on that one didnt you... least give me an example of a scenario which you wish for.
Didn't I mention anything about how they should be treated?
My opinion on what I believe should happen has nothing to do with the ongoing cause and will have no baring on the outcome. Basically stating that it is their problem and to let them sort it out them selfs hardly makes me a monster on humanity.
How you come to the conclusion that I have no regard for human life is beyond me?. I have never assisted or supported any man, woman or child in setting sail to far away lands for the sole intention of getting involved in a conflict that has nothing to do with them. Anyone who has and comes out with such a statement as you have here is a hypocrite.
Further more, I put my life on the line for others on a daily basis. Next time you start spouting crap, get your facts straight and you might not make yourself look a compete twat in the process.
Senior Member
Treat other how you would want to be treated. Obviously you have no regard for human life. Why is any of their lives less important?
Senior Member
I don't see how anybody should bring up what happened 50 or 60 years ago. If you do that then you can bring up stuff from 100s of years or even 1000s of years ago.
Possession is 90% of ownership, for there is no logic of war.
Senior Member
The people whose houses were bulldozed down, whose land was stolen, etc. are still alive today. Are you saying that after 50 years, you no longer have a right to it?
Senior Member
Why not go back even further than 50 years and bring up all the war crimes since the beginning of mankind.
If I slap you on your left cheek, do you slap me back?
Some one has to let it go if there is ever gonna be peace.
Member
That's cause what happened 50 or 60 years ago, is still happening today. It hasn't stopped, and its the main reason behind most of the world problems today.
And saying possession is 90% of ownership is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You're basically saying theft is okay as long as you hold on to the stolen property. Very smart.
Senior Member
"Possession is 9/10ths of the law." It means that if you get caught with the suspect property on your person, you are the prime suspect.
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
its on now...massive ground invasion by israel .......this is truly criminal this whole situation makes me very sad....and angry at my gov. for its role ...and lack of intervention re: this particular action.....
Member
Unfortunately, our government isn't just not doing anything, the Bush administration actually supports the Israeli offensive. Not only that, but the Bush administration is the biggest financier of this massacare.
The assault unleased on Gaza for the past 8 days has been funded ENTIRELY BY AMERICAN TAX-PAYER MONEY. Yes, you read that correctly. That large amount deducted from your paycheck every month, that same amount that is supposed to go to schools, hospitals, roads, jobs...etc in our local community, is not quite going there, because a large percentage of it is going to Israeli military aid. I guess in our current economy, we don't really need that money.
If you are tired of the recession that you live in, the unemployment, foreclosures, and increased crime we are experiencing in this country lately, and would like your tax money to go to helping the economy instead of murdering children overseas, then write/call/email your elected officials who have influence over the decision making in this country. Tell them you need this money here at home, and you don't want Israel to use it for murder and destruction of Palestinians.
If you want to know how much money Israel really recieves from our tax money, then go to this link http://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/United_States_military_aid_to_Israel
here's an excerpt
U.S.
Foreign military financing to Israel
Year TOTAL
2001 $2,813,644,000
2002 $2,788,000,000
2003 $3,682,450,000
2004 $2,624,424,000
2005 $2,609,570,000
2006 $2,531,326,000
2007 $2,460,320,000
Total 2001-2007 $19,509,734,000
That's over 19.5 BILLION in about 6 years. I'm sure we can use that money here. And this is just the free military money they recieve, not counting any other aid they recieve for social and other agendas.
That's just ****ing sad.
physical pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside... The pain of quiting will lasts forever!!
i heard on the news that they called all the phone numbers they could and sent texts out to all the civilans... imagine getting that text !!! RUN !!! - either way i hope this is not as bloody as it could be... it is too bad it came to this
Senior Member
It's very nice of you to post this. This is enough proof to refute the extremists from our own (Muslim) ranks who can't differentiate between the American government and Americans.
physical pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside... The pain of quiting will lasts forever!!
i can add to this by saying that i am a strong christian, and love the Lord, i have hundreds of muslim friends that are salt of the earth people, though i dont believe at all in their ways with God... we can agree to disagree. and they have more morals and values than the people who critisize them. the love for their wives (the only have one) the love for their children, country, and their work ethic is the reason america exists today... that is 95% of them, 5 % ruin it for the rest ... lol - now if we could convert them all to christianity every thing would be great...
Senior Member
That's a lot of Muslims!
physical pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside... The pain of quiting will lasts forever!!
i owned a business that delt directly with many people form the middle east... they make great goat and are very good at soccer...
Senior Member
Its a vicious circle aint it ?
Senior Member
Deleted......................
Associate Member
The Hamas is purposely and strategically hiding among civilians. the purposely seek he most densely populated civilian zones to draw battle.
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