Hamas is at it again

[amcon]

Lets just say that you threw a punch at me, i ducked and you missed, i then kicked shit out of you. But a few days later you threw another punch at me and the same thing happens, i kick shit out of you. Now yet again you threw another punch at me and someone sees this in the street and says amcon, why do you keep trying to hit him? Your only going to get hurt, and you say, i do it because he has taken over my house, he is making me and my family live like animals, i have to try and do something.. Does this ring any bells??

id cry and just go some where else(serious)... but if i wouldnt throw a punch first i would shoulder press you and throw you on you head(joking)...

[NightWolf]

They want peace along with their half of the land as given to them by the United Nations and international law.

But you have to agree that firing rocktes into
israel is not going to acomplish that.

What that will do is just piss off the jews and then
they will go back into gaza.

[Matt]

id cry and just go some where else(serious)... but if i wouldnt throw a punch first i would shoulder press you and throw you on you head(joking)...

Theres just no hope...

[amcon]

Theres just no hope...

i agree mad... there is just no hope - but one thing will def invoke israel's rath... firing rockets in to israel... and i do understand why palestines fight what else can they do???? fight and die or not fight and die... whooosh what can they do?

[gst528i]

This is so sad. On one side i would like to give the israel people full authority in defending themselves.
Than you see why the palestinians are doing it. Just torn.

If history has taught us anything is, survival of the fittest.


On a side note, can some explain why jersualem is so important to jews, muslims and christians.
Do all three religions believe this is a holy place? If so why? What is future expectations of it.

oh BUFFEDGUY how would you like to right me a paper on this. I am in this class that requires me to write about a war. One that requires to pick a side than discuss propoganda during the war.
Hahah i would love give my teacher a long one to head lol the bitch will back of my case. She pick on me just coz i talk to girls during her lecture. That bitch

[BuffedGuy]

On a side note, can some explain why jersualem is so important to jews, muslims and christians.
Do all three religions believe this is a holy place? If so why? What is future expectations of it.

OK I replied in the Ask a Muslim thread...I answered in two very short posts:

Why Jerusalem is holy to Muslims

Why Jerusalem being holy to Muslims does not mean we are allowed to conquer it and dispossess those who live there: A summary of the Muslim rule of Jerusalem

And by short I mean incredibly long.

[gst528i]

thanks buffedguy.

I know you have always defended what hamas is doing. can you defend this?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...d/6247491.html

U.N. says Hamas militants ransacked goods for needy
By ASHRAF KHALIL LOS ANGELES TIMES
Feb. 5, 2009, 12:01AM
CAIRO, Egypt — The United Nations on Wednesday accused the militant group Hamas of breaking into a Gaza Strip warehouse and stealing food and blankets intended for distribution to 500 needy families.

Armed police officers broke into a warehouse in the Beach Refugee Camp in Gaza City and confiscated more than 3,500 blankets and 400 food parcels Tuesday, the U.N. Relief and Works Agency said.

The police entered the warehouse shortly after humanitarian aid staff had refused to hand over the supplies to the Hamas-run Ministry of Social Affairs, said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness .

“They came and tried to take it and then they came back and took it by force,” Gunness said in an interview. “We have protested to the local authorities.”

In a statement, the agency said it “condemns in the strongest terms the confiscation of its aid supplies and has demanded that it is returned immediately.”

Ahmad Kurd, a Hamas ministry official, said the U.N. was providing aid to local groups associated with Hamas opponents, according to The Associated Press. A ministry spokesman said the U.N. was storing blankets in an unauthorized area.

UNRWA was created in 1948 to provide assistance to millions of Palestinian refugees left homeless after the creation of Israel. The agency provides food and other aid to more than half of the Gaza Strip’s population of 1.5 million.

The confrontation reflects a larger dispute over who will control the flow of aid, supplies and funding needed to help Gaza rebuild following a 22-day Israeli offensive designed to end years of Gazan rocket launches against southern Israeli cities.

Hamas officials have claimed they were open to multiple agencies, governments and organizations participating in the reconstruction process — even its rival Fatah faction, which controls the Palestinian Authority.

Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Salam Fayyad announced Wednesday the creation of a $600 million reconstruction fund to rebuild the estimated 5,000 homes destroyed during the Israeli offensive. Most of the funds will be contributed by wealthy nations.

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, GST528i.

thanks buffedguy.

I know you have always defended what hamas is doing. can you defend this?

I have not always defended Hamas. Rather, I have criticized them and even debated with their staunchest of supporters, who justify and whitewash everything they do. For example, I believe that suicide bombing is completely forbidden in Islam, even if done against purely military targets. I also oppose the rocket attacks.

You have to understand that in the same way that the pro-Israeli members on this forum will defend *every* action of Israel by making up justifications, you have the same thing going on with Hamas supporters. So you will listen to their arguments, and they sound so amazingly similar. For example, Hamas supporters say that the rocket attacks are justified because Hamas does *not* target civilians; rather, they point their rockets in the general direction of Israel and since their rockets are so rudimentary, they end up landing anywhere, which is "out of the control" of Hamas. In other words, they lack the capability to aim at purely military targets; otherwise they would.

The above is the explanation given by Hamas itself and the die-hard supporters of Hamas. It is similar to the reasoning of Israel: "we had to fire the missiles into that school, because Hamas militants were nearby." But I reject Israel's logic just as I reject Hamas's logic. What I say is that we should not simply be looking for legal cover; rather, we as human beings should have moral consciences and soft hearts. Regardless of the legal justifications for attacks, we should say to ourselves: 'hey, do I really want to kill all these innocent people?'

So I reject Israel's justification: if I knew that militants were next to a school, I certainly wouldn't bomb that school. That's like the police bombing a bank because bank-robbers had taken the bank employees hostage. (For the record, I think that it is a lie that Israel bombs schools because militants hide out there; nobody can prove their claims. But EVEN if it was true, I would still reject it as a justification.)

Similarly, I completely reject Hamas's logic that they are justified in launching rockets since they don't specifically TARGET civilians. But cmon let's be real: you have to be brain dead not to know that they WILL land on civilian heads. You can't keep launching rockets and saying "oh we didn't intend for that to happen", and then you keep doing it! Can you imagine someone who has gas problems always eating beans which makes him fart...he might say "I don't eat the beans to fart", but the fact is that every time he eats those beans, he is GOING TO fart, so he should use his brain and say beans = fart. Likewise, Hamas should realize that launching rockets = dead civilians, and Israel should realize that their merciless bombing raids = dead civilians.

When Israel continually bombs Palestine, they say "oh well, we didn't target civilians, and we couldn't possibly have known that so many civilians would have died." Oh really? You've been doing this for 50 years; haven't figured it out yet? Puh-lease. The SAME is the case with the Hamas rockets. Yes, they justify it by saying they can't aim, but how many times do those rockets land on civilian heads as opposed to military targets?

I also reject the Hamas supporters justification that all Israeli citizens are part of the military since they are ordered to serve in the military by law. I've written a long refutation of this argument in the Ask a Muslim thread. To me, this argument is as false as the Israeli justifications for killing Palestinians: "they are all Hamas supporters, they voted for Hamas, their children grow up to be Hamas, etc" All garbage arguments.

So to answer your question: I do not defend Hamas at every opportunity. Rather, I try to speak the truth, even if it be against the Muslims. As Prophet Muhammad [s] said: "Speak the truth even if it be against yourself." This is a dictum I try to follow. So when Hamas or the Palestinians are at fault for something, I say it, instead of whitewashing it or brushing it under the carpet.

As for the article you quoted, if it is true, then it is wrong. But what should be kept in mind--to be just--is that Hamas is well-known for its reliability in giving out food and supplies to the needy. Their leaders are known for their asceticism. The aid agencies know that if they give the aid to the PLO leaders, the PLO leaders--who are highly corrupt officials--will eat up the wealth of the poor, without remorse. This is not the case for Hamas. So one would think that even if the article is true, then it would mean that they didn't like how the supplies were given to their opponents. Regardless, the action is wrong, because we Muslims are instructed to protect the wealth and property of Non-Muslims; stealing it is not permissible.

The *only* way I differ with most people on this forum with regards to Hamas is that I do not consider them to be the evilest people on earth, or villains. I believe that they are freedom fighters, but like other freedom fighting movements, they have gone to excess and extremism, much like the IRA, Tamil Tigers, etc. did. So instead of saying that they MUST be destroyed off the face of the earth, I say that they deserve a chance to return to the path of righteousness; if they do that, then we accept them. If they do not, then we will oppose them. Since coming to power, they have already become more moderate, and if Israel/America/Europe worked with them, they would become even more moderate. If they are ostracized from the political process, however, they will become more extreme and I do not want that.

People have this conception that since Hamas has engaged in terrorism, we should just destroy them from the earth. Well, I'd be ok with that, so long as you also say the same thing about the entire IDF, which was founded by a terrorist organization, namely the Haganah and elements of the Stern Gang, Lehi, Irgun, etc. These were terrorist groups that blew up buildings, killed innocent people, etc. If you say "well, they changed" (even though they didn't), then I say: "then give a chance for Hamas to change as well."

Anyways, I'm blabbering now. I'll stop.

[*RAGE*]

Peace be unto you, GST528i.



I have not always defended Hamas. So you are defending Hamas now?Rather, I have criticized them and even debated with their staunchest of supporters, who justify and whitewash everything they do. For example, I believe that suicide bombing is completely forbidden in Islam, even if done against purely military targets. I also oppose the rocket attacks. this is a good thing...suicide boomer dont normally target military, but the interior power

You have to understand that in the same way that the pro-Israeli members on this forum I am sure this is directed at me but you are wrong I am not a pro israel, but i think Israel should be able to defiend it self..will defend *every* action of Israel by making up justifications,you are the one making justification whey they should not defend themselves..(you like pointing the finger at others never at youself.. you have the same thing going on with Hamas supporters. So you will listen to their arguments, and they sound so amazingly similar. true For example, Hamas supporters say that the rocket attacks are justified because Hamas does *not* target civilians; rather, they point their rockets in the general direction of Israel and since their rockets are so rudimentary, they end up landing anywhere, which is "out of the control" of Hamas. In other words, they lack the capability to aim at purely military targets; otherwise they would.again you cant say this because you dont know buff

The above is the explanation given by Hamas itself and the die-hard supporters of Hamas. It is similar to the reasoning of Israel: "we had to fire the missiles into that school, because Hamas militants were nearby." they did not say they were nearby but hidding in the schools But I reject Israel's logic just as I reject Hamas's logic. goodWhat I say is that we should not simply be looking for legal cover; rather, we as human beings should have moral consciences and soft hearts. Regardless of the legal justifications for attacks, we should say to ourselves: 'hey, do I really want to kill all these innocent people?' no one is looking at killing innocent people

So I reject Israel's justification: if I knew that militants were next to a school, I certainly wouldn't bomb that school. I again have read on this and they did not say they were near the school but hidding in the school That's like the police bombing a bank because bank-robbers had taken the bank employees hostage. (For the record, I think that it is a lie that Israel bombs schools because militants hide out there; nobody can prove their claims. But EVEN if it was true, I would still reject it as a justification.) I agree with you because are cowards

Similarly, I completely reject Hamas's logic that they are justified in launching rockets since they don't specifically TARGET civilians. But cmon let's be real: you have to be brain dead not to know that they WILL land on civilian heads. good pointYou can't keep launching rockets and saying "oh we didn't intend for that to happen", and then you keep doing it! Can you imagine someone who has gas problems always eating beans which makes him fart...he might say "I don't eat the beans to fart", but the fact is that every time he eats those beans, he is GOING TO fart, so he should use his brain and say beans = fart.I like the point... Likewise, Hamas should realize that launching rockets = dead civilians, and Israel should realize that their merciless bombing raids = dead civilians.good point one cause the other right or wrong that is the truth

When Israel continually bombs Palestine, they say "oh well, we didn't target civilians, and we couldn't possibly have known that so many civilians would have died." Oh really? You've been doing this for 50 years; haven't figured it out yet? Puh-lease. The SAME is the case with the Hamas rockets. Yes, they justify it by saying they can't aim, but how many times do those rockets land on civilian heads as opposed to military targets? very good point

I also reject the Hamas supporters justification that all Israeli citizens are part of the military since they are ordered to serve in the military by law. I've written a long refutation of this argument in the Ask a Muslim thread. To me, this argument is as false as the Israeli justifications for killing Palestinians: "they are all Hamas supporters, they voted for Hamas, their children grow up to be Hamas, etc" All garbage arguments.true but you are wrong about israel just because they were forced to serve in the military does not mean they are all military.....a lot of other countries do this as well...

So to answer your question: I do not defend Hamas at every opportunity. Rather, I try to speak the truth, even if it be against the Muslims. As Prophet Muhammad [s] said: "Speak the truth even if it be against yourself." This is a dictum I try to follow. So when Hamas or the Palestinians are at fault for something, I say it, instead of whitewashing it or brushing it under the carpet.

As for the article you quoted, if it is true, true with justificationthen it is wrong. But what should be kept in mind--to be just--is that Hamas is well-known for its reliability in giving out food and supplies to the needy. Their leaders are known for their asceticism. The aid agencies know that if they give the aid to the PLO leaders, the PLO leaders--who are highly corrupt officials--will eat up the wealth of the poor, without remorse. This is not the case for Hamas. So one would think that even if the article is true, then it would mean that they didn't like how the supplies were given to their opponents. Regardless, the action is wrong, because we Muslims are instructed to protect the wealth and property of Non-Muslims; stealing it is not permissible.

The *only* way I differ with most people on this forum with regards to Hamas is that I do not consider them to be the evilest people on earth, or villains. I believe that they are freedom fighters, but like other freedom fighting movements, they have gone to excess and extremism, much like the IRA, Tamil Tigers, etc. did. So instead of saying that they MUST be destroyed off the face of the earth, I say that they deserve a chance to return to the path of righteousness; if they do that, then we accept them. If they do not, then we will oppose them. Since coming to power, they have already become more moderate, and if Israel/America/Europe worked with them, they would become even more moderate. If they are ostracized from the political process, however, they will become more extreme and I do not want that.

People have this conception that since Hamas has engaged in terrorism, we should just destroy them from the earth. Well, I'd be ok with that, so long as you also say the same thing about the entire IDF, which was founded by a terrorist organization, namely the Haganah and elements of the Stern Gang, Lehi, Irgun, etc. These were terrorist groups that blew up buildings, killed innocent people, etc. If you say "well, they changed" (even though they didn't), then I say: "then give a chance for Hamas to change as well."

Anyways, I'm blabbering now. I'll stop.

good post buff I did not see it all you way but for the most part it looked good and yes I think you were honest.......Just for the record I am not pro israel supporter.......

[amcon]

i heard some news today... didnt catch it all but hamas got their hand slapped for doing something - any one hear any thing? i caught the tail end

[BuffedGuy]

i heard some news today... didnt catch it all but hamas got their hand slapped for doing something - any one hear any thing? i caught the tail end

You are talking about how Israel has more UN resolutions issued against it than any other country on earth, right? Yeah, pretty crazy. But we only invade Muslim countries--not Jewish ones--when they violate UN resolutions.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Slay The Homeless

[*RAGE*]

You are talking about how Israel has more UN resolutions issued against it than any other country on earth, right? Yeah, pretty crazy. But we only invade Muslim countries--not Jewish ones--when they violate UN resolutions.

I noticed you can make other post here...keep that side of you up because this is getting old...Jews suck,,,,Jews are mean hate full POS...jews are killing people for nothing.....Jews are steeling our land.....jews are the new germany......Hilter dont have shit.....on the Jews.....My people are dying because the Jews are lying..to the world....the Jews are using white phosphours.......the Jews are targeting schools, hospitals,,,,,and innocent people walking down the street....Jews have no reason to do this......

Palastinian to include Hamsa...are good...and peace full people.....



Let not forget........the sorry ass American are giving all the money to the Jews so they can do this....and the UN is standing by while all this is happening.....God I feel like shit....

[amcon]

I noticed you can make other post here...keep that side of you up because this is getting old...Jews suck,,,,Jews are mean hate full POS...jews are killing people for nothing.....Jews are steeling our land.....jews are the new germany......Hilter dont have shit.....on the Jews.....My people are dying because the Jews are lying..to the world....the Jews are using white phosphours.......the Jews are targeting schools, hospitals,,,,,and innocent people walking down the street....Jews have no reason to do this......

Palastinian to include Hamsa...are good...and peace full people.....



Let not forget........the sorry ass American are giving all the money to the Jews so they can do this....and the UN is standing by while all this is happening.....God I feel like shit....

who is that in the pics? dumb ass burned him self up !!!

[amcon]

they cant feed their people but they can bribe people? or do they just have big wallets?

CAIRO – Hamas negotiators left Egypt without a long-term cease-fire with Israel on Thursday — but not before some members of the militant group's delegation were stopped at the Gaza border carrying millions in cash.

The delegation walked away from the cease-fire talks because of disagreements over the blockage on Gaza and border security. Talks will continue at a later date.


look im not hating just bringing to light what is going on...

[amcon]

they cant feed their people but they can bribe people? or do they just have big wallets?

CAIRO – Hamas negotiators left Egypt without a long-term cease-fire with Israel on Thursday — but not before some members of the militant group's delegation were stopped at the Gaza border carrying millions in cash.

The delegation walked away from the cease-fire talks because of disagreements over the blockage on Gaza and border security. Talks will continue at a later date. authorities found $7 million and 2 million euros ($2.5 million) in cash in their suitcases.

....Hamas has smuggled money into Gaza before. In 2006, a senior Hamas official bragged about successfully carrying $42 million across the border.

THATS A LOT OF 10 CENT ROCKETS !!!


look im not hating just bringing to light what is going on...

[amcon]

this has come up before in these threads:

i now better understand why this is done and i agree with it... i wouldnt want terrorists able to move freely around in our country as well(hamas):

Hamas demands that any truce include the full opening of borders into Gaza, which Israel and Egypt have largely kept sealed since Hamas seized control of the territory from Palestinian rivals Fatah in 2007. Hamas also wants a role in administering the border crossings in recognition of its power in Gaza.

so what was Nasr's reply to this?

Nasr said smuggling would only stop if the borders were open.

of coarse it would stop!!!! they would just truck it in!!!! then stock pile amo against every one else.... THEY ARE TERRORISTS

[*RAGE*]

well said again Amcon......

[*RAGE*]

who is that in the pics? dumb ass burned him self up !!!

Maybe gods way of say hey dumb ass...dont play with fire...

[amcon]

Maybe gods way of say hey dumb ass...dont play with fire...

well, my mom raised me not too !!! so i dont go around burning flags of countries that can kick my butt... know what i mean???

[*RAGE*]

well, my mom raised me not too !!! so i dont go around burning flags of countries that can kick my butt... know what i mean???

I sure do bro....and if I was getting my ass kicked I would not come to a steroid site and cry about it.....

[*RAGE*]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdznv9Q6o9s

[BuffedGuy]

I noticed you can make other post here...keep that side of you up because this is getting old...Jews suck,,,,Jews are mean hate full POS...jews are killing people for nothing.....Jews are steeling our land.....jews are the new germany......Hilter dont have shit.....on the Jews.....My people are dying because the Jews are lying..to the world....the Jews are using white phosphours.......the Jews are targeting schools, hospitals,,,,,and innocent people walking down the street....Jews have no reason to do this......

Ummm...I've never said any of this. I guess this is your disingenuous attempt at labeling anyone who dares criticize Israel to be anti-Jewish, a very favorite tactic of Zionists used to stifle criticism. Since you cannot prevail in a debate of words, you must resort to strawman arguments. Bravo!

who is that in the pics? dumb ass burned him self up !!!

The picture looks incredibly fake...photoshopped. You can tell by the way the person holding the flag looks, and in the first pic why is his hand already in the fire!? The second picture looks ok, but there's suddenly no flag in it.

In any case, what does this have anything to do with anything?

they cant feed their people but they can bribe people? or do they just have big wallets?

CAIRO – Hamas negotiators left Egypt without a long-term cease-fire with Israel on Thursday — but not before some members of the militant group's delegation were stopped at the Gaza border carrying millions in cash.

The delegation walked away from the cease-fire talks because of disagreements over the blockage on Gaza and border security. Talks will continue at a later date.


look im not hating just bringing to light what is going on...

As a general rule, whenever a person has to always preface whatever he says with "I'm not hating" or "I don't mean to be racist, but..." then usually whatever he says after that (or before that in this case) is usually almost always exactly that. Just saying you're not being a thing doesn't mean you are not being that thing! It's not simply a matter of saying it! For example, I've seen "I don't mean to offend..." followed up almost always with offensive words. Nobody uses that phraseology for anything else other than offending someone.

As for what you wrote, where did you get the idea that Hamas was bribing anyone? I didn't get that from the copy and paste you gave. In fact, I looked up the article and nothing of the sort was stated, so it seems to be your imagination again.

Furthermore, the fact that Hamas leaders had millions of dollars doesn't prove squat. As the article itself said, the United States has applied pressure to prevent any bank from lending money directly to Hamas. Therefore, the government can only stay afloat by money which is given indirectly, i.e. cold-hard cash. This is because America has frozen Hamas's bank accounts, and made sure that not even Arab banks can transfer money to them. It is yet another tactic by America to increase the imbalance between Israel and Palestine, giving the former not only billions of dollars but even preventing the latter from getting *any* money from *anyone.*

this has come up before in these threads:

i now better understand why this is done and i agree with it... i wouldnt want terrorists able to move freely around in our country as well(hamas):

Of course you better understand the issue, since *any* explanation given to you--that bashes Palestinians or Muslims--is a great proof for you!

Hamas demands that any truce include the full opening of borders into Gaza, which Israel and Egypt have largely kept sealed since Hamas seized control of the territory from Palestinian rivals Fatah in 2007. Hamas also wants a role in administering the border crossings in recognition of its power in Gaza.

so what was Nasr's reply to this?

Nasr said smuggling would only stop if the borders were open.

of coarse it would stop!!!! they would just truck it in!!!! then stock pile amo against every one else.... THEY ARE TERRORISTS

First off, before the late 1980s, there was no such thing as Hamas. For decades, the Palestinians were led by the PLO, which calls for a secular and democratic state. And yet we find that the Palestinian borders were closed off by Israel back then as well. In fact, you can go back as far as you want, and Israel has been closing off borders. So this idea that Israel closed off the borders because of Hamas's terrorist activities is a case of placing the carriage before the horse: it is anachronistic.

Second off, on numerous occasions, you have defended Israel's "right to defend herself." You are also OK with America giving billions of dollars in military aid, weapons transfers, etc. So why is it--according to you--OK for Israel to harm herself, but not the Palestinian people? If and when the Palestinian state is created finally, she should have the exact same rights to arm herself as Israel.

well, my mom raised me not too !!! so i dont go around burning flags of countries that can kick my butt... know what i mean???

So your mom raised you such that you treat people who can harm you in a different way than people who you can harm? In other words, your great moral compass tells you that it is OK form someone to burn a flag, so long as it is the flag of a weaker country, like say the Palestinian flag, the Iraqi flag, etc. But--according to you--your mom raised you with enough values to know that it's ok to do all that, but just don't burn the flag of powerful countries like America, or Israel, etc. Did I understand that correctly?

Did your mom also raise you in such a way to justify people who urinate on Qurans and flush them down the toilet? Do you have such an emotional reaction to that as you do over someone burning the American flag?

I sure do bro....and if I was getting my ass kicked I would not come to a steroid site and cry about it.....

May God give me the strength to restrain my tongue from retaliating. Peace be unto you!

[BuffedGuy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdznv9Q6o9s

Translation: the price of freedom is to take away freedom.

[*RAGE*]

Ummm...I've never said any of this. I guess this is your disingenuous attempt at labeling anyone who dares criticize Israel to be anti-Jewish, a very favorite tactic of Zionists used to stifle criticism. Since you cannot prevail in a debate of words, you must resort to strawman arguments. Bravo!



I dont think I have lost on a debate of words..because you just keep trying to justify what your people are doing..you are the one that would not respond to the last post but just stared typing hitting the keyboard and would not respond back...buff it is not hard to tell what is going on here....you are sad little man and want poeple to feel sorry for you..and that is it.....you do not have the balls to stand up for what you believe in the real world so you take it to the net..and cry there....(words cut deaper then the sord) bullshitt and that has been proven by 90 precent of the thread you started.......I am not a Jew but am sick your bullshit you are putting out there....

[*RAGE*]

Translation: the price of freedom is to take away freedom.

No what that is saying the price of freedom is getting off the computer and do something about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but you will never do that....because it is much safe to cry on a steroid site..

[*RAGE*]

CRY cry cry (wait is someone listening to me).....cry cry

[*RAGE*]

Translation: the price of freedom is to take away freedom.

Translation of a corward

[*RAGE*]

May God give me the strength to restrain my tongue from retaliating. Peace be unto you!



you have your own GOD.....must be nice....but I dont think that is how it works...I believe it is all our god....not just yours......unless you dont believe in the sameone...

[*RAGE*]

I would love to keep this going but will have to pick it up in the morning...

if buffedguys god let me....wtf....ever

[BuffedGuy]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and think that you must be having a bad day. Whatever it is, may God guide both you and I to all that which is right. The power to soften and reconcile the hearts is with God alone. Forgive me for my many faults. Take care, and have a good night.

[amcon]

the other comments are where we differ, i dont believe one side is worse than the other... both are wrong - for what it is worth i believe (i have not backed this up biblically 1000%) the jews will be crushed and persicuted again ... and at that time the israel will be judged.

[your qoute] "So your mom raised you such that you treat people who can harm you in a different way than people who you can harm? In other words, your great moral compass tells you that it is OK form someone to burn a flag, so long as it is the flag of a weaker country, like say the Palestinian flag, the Iraqi flag, etc. But--according to you--your mom raised you with enough values to know that it's ok to do all that, but just don't burn the flag of powerful countries like America, or Israel, etc. Did I understand that correctly?

Did your mom also raise you in such a way to justify people who urinate on Qurans and flush them down the toilet? Do you have such an emotional reaction to that as you do over someone burning the American flag? "

i was not raised a bully, i think you may have understood my point, however the emotions are running high... i will carify - if any country was superessing me and my country (canada supressing costa rica for example) i wouldnt throw gas on the fire by burnging canada's flag... so to be clear - i dont believe in bulling - it is the same as terriorism, sort of. . . what would i do? become a politician and go and do every thing i could to make change - what i wouldnt do it burn flags, smuggle money, allow terriorists to run my country, die for what i believe in... in essence that is what i do as a christian - and you as a musilim do every day... we fight the most peacefull way we can and make sense of things that are unsensical.

[amcon]

as for a bribe - that would be an educated guess - not far off base im sure

as for any comment of hamas and money we have debated it out several times - rockets cost money, 10 cents or 10,000 dollars - gaza can not get the food and supplies they need (several people have stated that on these threads) yet hamas can smuggle in weapons and smuggle out money to other countries??? that from pro israel or pro hamas - does not compute !!! save the money and stop fighting israel - feed the people, beg the usa and beg england and beg the un to sanction israel!!! put video (not propaganda on you tube) - "LIKE SAVE GAZA" the same way they say "save the whales" or "SAVE NAPAL" ...

... WHAT WE KNOW DOESNT WORK IT WHAT IS TAKING PLACE NOW - INSANITY

[Matt]

This thread needs some lovin.....

[amcon]

I noticed you can make other post here...keep that side of you up because this is getting old...Jews suck,,,,Jews are mean hate full POS...jews are killing people for nothing.....Jews are steeling our land.....jews are the new germany......Hilter dont have shit.....on the Jews.....My people are dying because the Jews are lying..to the world....the Jews are using white phosphours.......the Jews are targeting schools, hospitals,,,,,and innocent people walking down the street....Jews have no reason to do this......

Palastinian to include Hamsa...are good...and peace full people.....



Let not forget........the sorry ass American are giving all the money to the Jews so they can do this....and the UN is standing by while all this is happening.....God I feel like shit....

if this is a photo shopped pic (i believe it is real) it i a fair representation of what happens around the world in regaurds to the usa - yet we are the first to be called for help

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

terrorist need to die

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, Amcon.

the other comments are where we differ, i dont believe one side is worse than the other... both are wrong

Would you say that in the conflict in the 1800s between American settlers and the Native Americans that "both sides were equally wrong"? Or would you--like most reasonable people--agree that a greater share of the blame is on the colonial force?

however the emotions are running high... i will carify

I agree that the emotions are running high, and I apologize to you and Prone2Rage for my contribution to that. Let's all breath deeply and discuss calmly, God-Willing. Thank you Amcon for taking the lead in that.

- if any country was superessing me and my country (canada supressing costa rica for example) i wouldnt throw gas on the fire by burnging canada's flag...

I do not believe in flag burning myself. I think that Denmark has a nice law with regards to this: Danish law allows their people to burn the Danish flag, but forbid the burning of any other country's flag. If I was the leader of a country--and if it were in my power--I would forbid the burning of flags, especially if the flag had any religious symbols on it, such as the Israeli flag which has the star of David on it.

Nonetheless, the fact that I disagree with flag burning does not mean that I agree with anyone who automatically assumes that the guy in the picture must be a terrorist.

But I think the one thing that was very lacking in your post--despite the fact that you were trying to clarify your position--was your complete avoidance of the topic of American soldiers urinating on Qurans and flushing them down the toilet. Your silence on this issue really speaks to your bias.

smuggle money

"Smuggling money" is just one way of wording it. The Palestinian money has been stolen by the American government (that is exactly what "freezing accounts" and "pressuring other banks not to lend" to them amounts to), and so they are simply bringing in money that is rightfully theirs. It's only "smuggling" because the oppressor forbids it.

As for your opposition to this, do you also oppose Israel when they smuggle weapons and military equipment into their country:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-19664919.html

Do you also oppose America and Israel smuggling weapons as they did in the Iran-Contra Affair? Why all these double standards?

Do you oppose Israel sending spies to various countries of the world, including America?

allow terriorists to run my country,

If you are going to paint such broad strokes, then one could easily--based on that logic--say that Israel is run by terrorists. Many of the prime ministers of Israel were a part of or connected to Zionist terrorist groups such as Haganah, Stern Gang, Lehi, etc. The IDF was itself a terrorist organization--called the Haganah. So your rhetoric that "Palestine is run by terrorists" is a double-standard of the worst nature.

as for a bribe - that would be an educated guess - not far off base im sure

It doesn't even make sense. They received money from unnamed sources, which they were taking back to run their land. I don't see what bribery has anything to do with anything. But I think you will just continue to say things without proof as you usually do.

if this is a photo shopped pic (i believe it is real) it i a fair representation of what happens around the world in regaurds to the usa - yet we are the first to be called for help

I think the more intelligent question would be to ask: why are American flags being burned the world over?

[NightWolf]

Buffed, why is it that when someone
does not agree with your opinon on
the palis, they have to be: a zionist, bigot or racist?
Why cant you just accept the fact that Hamas
are a piece of shit terrorist group? Dont belive me?
go watch one of the many videos i posted
were they wanted to kill all of Europe and America.

Also notice that when something is presented
against hamas, buff often says "i think this is fake"
or "even if this is true".

Hey buff, why dont you post any news about
all the christians that are getting slayed by muslims
in iraq? Ya the shiates muslims are on a killing rampage
over there. No im not talking about the US soldiers,
im talking about the christian iraqi citizens.
Well i guess since they are muslims its OK for
them to kill innocent people.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Buffed, why is it that when someone
does not agree with your opinon on
the palis, they have to be: a zionist, bigot or racist?
Why cant you just accept the fact that Hamas
are a piece of shit terrorist group? Dont belive me?
go watch one of the many videos i posted
were they wanted to kill all of Europe and America.

Also notice that when something is presented
against hamas, buff often says "i think this is fake"
or "even if this is true".

Hey buff, why dont you post any news about
all the christians that are getting slayed by muslims
in iraq? Ya the shiates muslims are on a killing rampage
over there. No im not talking about the US soldiers,
im talking about the christian iraqi citizens.
Well i guess since they are muslims its OK for
them to kill innocent people.

lol. Thank you!


death to hamas! and their terrorist babies

but keep the women alive and send them my way

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, NightWolf.

Buffed, why is it that when someone
does not agree with your opinon on
the palis, they have to be: a zionist, bigot or racist?

It is not whenever anyone disagrees with me. Rather, the vast majority of people on this forum are open-minded and neutral people. There are, however, a handful of people here--the number of which I could count on my fingers--who are bigots. After interacting a lot with people on such topics, I can easily identify these types. Interestingly enough, the ones on this forum are obsessed with me, my posts, and my threads! Whenever I click on my "Ask a Muslim" thread, guess whose reading it? His name starts with N and ends with F. As brother Chariff told me, it burns up people like you that a Muslim can talk in cogent sentences and refutes all your arguments. It's burning you up inside; just admit it. You're stewing.

Why cant you just accept the fact that Hamas
are a piece of shit terrorist group? Dont belive me?
go watch one of the many videos i posted
were they wanted to kill all of Europe and America.

I've already responded to this. As for my view on Hamas, I've already clarified that plenty of times: I am 100% opposed to their tactics, condemn that, and call them to abandon such tactics.

There have been Non-Muslims on this forum who have condemned Hamas, but I didn't mind at all because they also condemned Israel. This showed their balance and fairness, as opposed to bigotry and double-standards, which seems to be your modus operandi. So it's not that you condemn Hamas which bothers me; that doesn't bother me in the least. What bothers me is your silence about Israel. The entire problem in this world today is that people are defining the debate using huge double standards. I want to bring that wall down, and bring fairness in debate--and the same standards for all. If one thing is wrong for Muslims, it is wrong for Non-Muslims, and vice/versa.

Hey buff, why dont you post any news about
all the christians that are getting slayed by muslims
in iraq? Ya the shiates muslims are on a killing rampage
over there. No im not talking about the US soldiers,
im talking about the christian iraqi citizens.
Well i guess since they are muslims its OK for
them to kill innocent people.

Killing non-combatant Christians is absolutely forbidden in my religion, and what is going on in Iraq against Christian citizens is atrocious. It is a grave violation of Islamic Law and flouts morality. In regards to why I haven't brought it up on this forum, it is simply because the criticisms I have of Muslims I give to Muslims on Islamic forums. I am often posting such articles, exposing extremists. The Shia death squads and Al-Qaeda groups are extremists that need to be refuted, humiliated, and exposed for what they are. These groups in Iraq are real, the problem is real, and it cannot be whitewashed or brushed under the carpet. I am not from those who would do that.

In any case, I've only posted on Palestine in the news section, simply because that is the hot topic in the news nowadays due to the invasion of Gaza. It is not like I am creating threads left and right about Muslim suffering in various parts of the world that you could say "well, why don't you ever talk about Christian suffering?" The fact is that I've only ever posted a thread about Palestine/Gaza, and that only because the Gaza invasion was front page news nowadays.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.