Mosque approved at Ground Zero

[zabster151]

I am someone who know allot more then you do about whats going on and for you to say you back barry soetoro 100% is a joke. that means you back no gun rights for Americans. you are for the 60 billion dolors he just spent this month in Iraq. The 1 trillion dolors he has given away to banks car companies foreign countries war. lets see what els o yea medical reform so illegal get free Medicare. you are also in favor that he is suing Arizona for enforcing its immigration laws that every state has. o yea you are for opining the boarders and making everyone a citizen. so much more its just stupid that somone would back this terrorist

But remember you back Him you said it yourself.

[DSM4Life]

I am someone who know allot more then you do about whats going on and for you to say you back barry soetoro 100% is a joke. that means you back no gun rights for Americans. you are for the 60 billion dolors he just spent this month in Iraq. The 1 trillion dolors he has given away to banks car companies foreign countries war. lets see what els o yea medical reform so illegal get free Medicare. you are also in favor that he is suing Arizona for enforcing its immigration laws that every state has. o yea you are for opining the boarders and making everyone a citizen. so much more its just stupid that somone would back this terrorist

But remember you back Him you said it yourself.

Judging from your grammar and sentence structure I would say that statement is false.

Do I like everything Obama is doing ? No. Does that mean Obama should be impeached ?
You always have to weight the pro's and con's. If there are more pro's then I am OK with my decision.

[zabster151]

my Grammar, the is what you call me out for. just like you people to not pay attention to whats really going on. well you still back this terroist 100% you said it. YES he should be impeached. are you serious, Pros and Cons the cons out weigh the pros hands down
if you cant see that open your eyes. i am still wondering what good he has done for this country. i have already listed some of the things he has done to hurt this country. but you have not posted anything good he has done.

Pros?

Cons: wasted all of are money, bailed out companies that should have failed, for illegal immigrants, free medical for illegals,spends billions on this nothing war. paid bonuses to all the people who screwed us. wants to get ride of the the 2nd amendment. he wants to limit what people can do on the web if not cancel it completely. appoints people to jobs they are not qualified for or have a track record of screwing the working class. there is so much

do not ask me were i do my research because i have already posted it. hopefully my grammar was good enough for you to read

[DSM4Life]

my Grammar, the is what you call me out for. just like you people to not pay attention to whats really going on. well you still back this terroist 100% you said it. YES he should be impeached. are you serious, Pros and Cons the cons out weigh the pros hands down
if you cant see that open your eyes. i am still wondering what good he has done for this country. i have already listed some of the things he has done to hurt this country. but you have not posted anything good he has done.

Pros?

Cons: wasted all of are money, bailed out companies that should have failed, for illegal immigrants, free medical for illegals,spends billions on this nothing war. paid bonuses to all the people who screwed us. wants to get ride of the the 2nd amendment. he wants to limit what people can do on the web if not cancel it completely. appoints people to jobs they are not qualified for or have a track record of screwing the working class. there is so much

do not ask me were i do my research because i have already posted it. hopefully my grammar was good enough for you to read

I wasn't trying to insult you but how do you expect to be taken serious when you write like that ?

I love how people criticize Obama because he hasn't saved the world yet. Do you understand how deep of a hole he was dropped into when he was elected ? If you put Jesus Christ himself into his shoes it would still take years before things got better.

You talk about the war, who got us into this mess ? Do you really think McOld would have pulled out ? He would have dug us even deeper into this mess. My thoughts on the war, we need to pull out but we need to do it properly. We can't just drop our guns and walk away we need to slowly withdraw. If we were to just walk away all those soldiers that died would have died in vain (like in the war in Somalia-Mogadishu).

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

The world would be a better place without Muslims... true story...

[zabster151]

OMG, can you people not read whats going on or what?

[zabster151]

what the F$%k is bad about my grammar i am doing other things and i jump back and forth on my pc to type something quick and if its not perfect who cares can you read it YES. stop trying to lead away from the issue. i did not expect this man to save the world or any other president for that matter. you obsessively do not know whats going on or you would realize the president does not mean s#&t. he is front man i have already said this and yes we were in debt already from the banks and the war are government started nine years. but that does not mean he has to com in and bail out companies that should fail and put billions into this war. that he said he would back out of remember that its what he ran on as a candidate.

you still have not come up with a Pro yet ?

[DSM4Life]

what the F$%k is bad about my grammar i am doing other things and i jump back and forth on my pc to type something quick and if its not perfect who cares can you read it YES. stop trying to lead away from the issue. i did not expect this man to save the world or any other president for that matter. you obsessively do not know whats going on or you would realize the president does not mean s#&t. he is front man i have already said this and yes we were in debt already from the banks and the war are government started nine years. but that does not mean he has to com in and bail out companies that should fail and put billions into this war. that he said he would back out of remember that its what he ran on as a candidate.

you still have not come up with a Pro yet ?

I can understand being distracted when typing, same thing happens to me (am right now with music) but it's very distracting and doesn't help you when trying to get a point across.

Did I agree with the bailout ? Hell no but when you think about it what would have been better, "investing" money into these companies or letting them crumble and in turn put tons more people on unemployment ?
If you ask me , I don't know. On one hand I say they made their bed now let them lay in it but again do i really want all these other people out of work ? I think the idea of the plan was good but the way it was implemented was horrendous.

I only know of a few Pro's personally but if i research it which i am guilty of not doing lately since i have a lot of personal issues going on right now.

--
Ended previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry’s predatory practices

Better body armor is now being provided to our troops

Closed offshore tax safe havens

Cracked down on companies that deny sick pay, vacation and health insurance to workers by abusing the employee classification of independent contractor. Such companies also avoid paying Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance taxes for those workers.

Lower drug costs for seniors

Fight for gay rights

These are a few I can shot off the top of my head but there are many more.

[zabster151]

I can understand being distracted when typing, same thing happens to me (am right now with music) but it's very distracting and doesn't help you when trying to get a point across.

Did I agree with the bailout ? Hell no but when you think about it what would have been better, "investing" money into these companies or letting them crumble and in turn put tons more people on unemployment ?
If you ask me , I don't know. On one hand I say they made their bed now let them lay in it but again do i really want all these other people out of work ? I think the idea of the plan was good but the way it was implemented was horrendous.

I only know of a few Pro's personally but if i research it which i am guilty of not doing lately since i have a lot of personal issues going on right now.

--
Ended previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry’s predatory practices

Better body armor is now being provided to our troops we have less supplies the troops have been complaining for years having shoty equipment still to this day

Closed offshore tax safe havens screwing the privet sector

Cracked down on companies that deny sick pay, vacation and health insurance to workers by abusing the employee classification of independent contractor. Such companies also avoid paying Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance taxes for those workers. that stuff is already beging taken care of by the propor departments, SS is already gone medicare is now run by the government fully, unemployment insurance they want us all on it

Lower drug costs for seniors nope temporary -

Fight for gay rights we have bigger issues just make it legal already the income would help states but ppl are ignorant

These are a few I can shot off the top of my head but there are many more.

not good enough lol

[zabster151]

Things he should be doing....

1. kill all insentive programs for the illegals so they have no reason to come here any more
meaning: if not legal no food stamps no medical treatment no subcidized free living nothing you get deported on site. any compony that gets caught hiring illegals should get hit with major fines and 2nd offense pull whatever license they have

2. Pull all troops out of every country its not are job to police every country we cant afford it and shouldent be doing it.

3.let companies fail thats how a capitolist system works you failed for a reason. so now its someone els is turn.

4.medical should be privet sector only. there should be care for legal struggling citizens in other ways this is the toughest one yet i personally think.

5 audit the fed

6 start rebuilding this country, rebuild are water pipes throughout america, farming start producing product again no more out sourcing jobs.

7 give loans to people so they can start businesses

8 make school cheaper if you want people to go and become smarter more productive member of society o yea we should have money for teachers since we are not spending all are money on war.

9 actually lower taxes for once

10 raise minimum wage to cost of living standers

just a couple of things.lol

[DSM4Life]

I will be the first one to admit that Obama is not perfect but its real easy for an outsider (you, myself and many others) to point fingers. If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem. So tell me this , how would Zabster do it ?

[zabster151]

I will be the first one to admit that Obama is not perfect but its real easy for an outsider (you, myself and many others) to point fingers. If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem. So tell me this , how would Zabster do it ?

Hey i just gave my solution here it is again

Things he should be doing....

1. kill all insentive programs for the illegals so they have no reason to come here any more
meaning: if not legal no food stamps no medical treatment no subcidized free living nothing you get deported on site. any compony that gets caught hiring illegals should get hit with major fines and 2nd offense pull whatever license they have

2. Pull all troops out of every country its not are job to police every country we cant afford it and shouldent be doing it.

3.let companies fail thats how a capitolist system works you failed for a reason. so now its someone els is turn.

4.medical should be privet sector only. there should be care for legal struggling citizens in other ways this is the toughest one yet i personally think.

5 audit the fed

6 start rebuilding this country, rebuild are water pipes throughout america, farming start producing product again no more out sourcing jobs.

7 give loans to people so they can start businesses

8 make school cheaper if you want people to go and become smarter more productive member of society o yea we should have money for teachers since we are not spending all are money on war.

9 actually lower taxes for once

10 raise minimum wage to cost of living standers

just a couple of things.lol

[tupollo]

Hey i just gave my solution here it is again



10 raise minimum wage to cost of living standers

your better then this...govermint planning never works and eventually harms the people it is supposed to help.

the minimum wage should be abolished (as well as most restrictions on commerce and trade).

the government can not decide how much labour is worth.only the market and the supply and demand system can decide how much any product,good or service is worth.

the minimum wage hurts the american worker.i can not undercut illegal aliens or others who are willing to compete and work for a lower wage.once you take bartering out of a system it fails to be free and will always hurt the market in the long run.

raising minimum wage rates will cause employers to hire less workers.if i have to pay my 10 employees 10 an hour when previously i was paying them 7.15 i now have more costs to contend with.i must either shrink my workforce,make shitty products,or reduce production speed to cover my costs.so instead of having a low paying job you now have no job.

to much misunderstanding of basic economic principals and replacing market theory with class warfare will effect the job market and the price of products negatively.

you can not decide value.value is.a=a.telling me how much my labour is worth does not make it so.it may be more it may be less.the employer has no incentive to hire new workers for more then the minimum standard only when there is a standard.he is free to pay as he wishes without that standard as are his competitors.who is the state to say that in order to protect me all my labour has a minimum value? i defy such notions and resent them.

value is.a=a.

during a time in the country when we had high oil prices hawai decided to its peril to lower gas prices.of course paying less at the pump because the state says gas is worth less then it really is does nothing to actually decrease prices.the entire cost of production of said oil went through the roof.hawai eventually stopped the program.

value is.a=a.

a great poem on the greatness of the line of production is- i pencil (referenced in milton friedman's -freedom to choose.Chicago school of economics).

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htk9ZqW6b1I
part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9zcnIuXPdg

or in full:

, Pencil
My Family Tree as told to Leonard E. Read
RP.1
I am a lead pencil—the ordinary wooden pencil familiar to all boys and girls and adults who can read and write.*

RP.2
Writing is both my vocation and my avocation; that's all I do.

RP.3
You may wonder why I should write a genealogy. Well, to begin with, my story is interesting. And, next, I am a mystery—more so than a tree or a sunset or even a flash of lightning. But, sadly, I am taken for granted by those who use me, as if I were a mere incident and without background. This supercilious attitude relegates me to the level of the commonplace. This is a species of the grievous error in which mankind cannot too long persist without peril. For, the wise G. K. Chesterton observed, "We are perishing for want of wonder, not for want of wonders."

RP.4
I, Pencil, simple though I appear to be, merit your wonder and awe, a claim I shall attempt to prove. In fact, if you can understand me—no, that's too much to ask of anyone—if you can become aware of the miraculousness which I symbolize, you can help save the freedom mankind is so unhappily losing. I have a profound lesson to teach. And I can teach this lesson better than can an automobile or an airplane or a mechanical dishwasher because—well, because I am seemingly so simple.

RP.5
Simple? Yet, not a single person on the face of this earth knows how to make me. This sounds fantastic, doesn't it? Especially when it is realized that there are about one and one-half billion of my kind produced in the U.S.A. each year.

RP.6
Pick me up and look me over. What do you see? Not much meets the eye—there's some wood, lacquer, the printed labeling, graphite lead, a bit of metal, and an eraser.

Innumerable Antecedents

RP.7
Just as you cannot trace your family tree back very far, so is it impossible for me to name and explain all my antecedents. But I would like to suggest enough of them to impress upon you the richness and complexity of my background.

RP.8
My family tree begins with what in fact is a tree, a cedar of straight grain that grows in Northern California and Oregon. Now contemplate all the saws and trucks and rope and the countless other gear used in harvesting and carting the cedar logs to the railroad siding. Think of all the persons and the numberless skills that went into their fabrication: the mining of ore, the making of steel and its refinement into saws, axes, motors; the growing of hemp and bringing it through all the stages to heavy and strong rope; the logging camps with their beds and mess halls, the cookery and the raising of all the foods. Why, untold thousands of persons had a hand in every cup of coffee the loggers drink!

RP.9
The logs are shipped to a mill in San Leandro, California. Can you imagine the individuals who make flat cars and rails and railroad engines and who construct and install the communication systems incidental thereto? These legions are among my antecedents.

RP.10
Consider the millwork in San Leandro. The cedar logs are cut into small, pencil-length slats less than one-fourth of an inch in thickness. These are kiln dried and then tinted for the same reason women put rouge on their faces. People prefer that I look pretty, not a pallid white. The slats are waxed and kiln dried again. How many skills went into the making of the tint and the kilns, into supplying the heat, the light and power, the belts, motors, and all the other things a mill requires? Sweepers in the mill among my ancestors? Yes, and included are the men who poured the concrete for the dam of a Pacific Gas & Electric Company hydroplant which supplies the mill's power!

RP.11
Don't overlook the ancestors present and distant who have a hand in transporting sixty carloads of slats across the nation.

RP.12
Once in the pencil factory—$4,000,000 in machinery and building, all capital accumulated by thrifty and saving parents of mine—each slat is given eight grooves by a complex machine, after which another machine lays leads in every other slat, applies glue, and places another slat atop—a lead sandwich, so to speak. Seven brothers and I are mechanically carved from this "wood-clinched" sandwich.

RP.13
My "lead" itself—it contains no lead at all—is complex. The graphite is mined in Ceylon. Consider these miners and those who make their many tools and the makers of the paper sacks in which the graphite is shipped and those who make the string that ties the sacks and those who put them aboard ships and those who make the ships. Even the lighthouse keepers along the way assisted in my birth—and the harbor pilots.

RP.14
The graphite is mixed with clay from Mississippi in which ammonium hydroxide is used in the refining process. Then wetting agents are added such as sulfonated tallow—animal fats chemically reacted with sulfuric acid. After passing through numerous machines, the mixture finally appears as endless extrusions—as from a sausage grinder-cut to size, dried, and baked for several hours at 1,850 degrees Fahrenheit. To increase their strength and smoothness the leads are then treated with a hot mixture which includes candelilla wax from Mexico, paraffin wax, and hydrogenated natural fats.

RP.15
My cedar receives six coats of lacquer. Do you know all the ingredients of lacquer? Who would think that the growers of castor beans and the refiners of castor oil are a part of it? They are. Why, even the processes by which the lacquer is made a beautiful yellow involve the skills of more persons than one can enumerate!

RP.16
Observe the labeling. That's a film formed by applying heat to carbon black mixed with resins. How do you make resins and what, pray, is carbon black?

RP.17
My bit of metal—the ferrule—is brass. Think of all the persons who mine zinc and copper and those who have the skills to make shiny sheet brass from these products of nature. Those black rings on my ferrule are black nickel. What is black nickel and how is it applied? The complete story of why the center of my ferrule has no black nickel on it would take pages to explain.

RP.18
Then there's my crowning glory, inelegantly referred to in the trade as "the plug," the part man uses to erase the errors he makes with me. An ingredient called "factice" is what does the erasing. It is a rubber-like product made by reacting rape-seed oil from the Dutch East Indies with sulfur chloride. Rubber, contrary to the common notion, is only for binding purposes. Then, too, there are numerous vulcanizing and accelerating agents. The pumice comes from Italy; and the pigment which gives "the plug" its color is cadmium sulfide.

No One Knows

RP.19
Does anyone wish to challenge my earlier assertion that no single person on the face of this earth knows how to make me?

RP.20
Actually, millions of human beings have had a hand in my creation, no one of whom even knows more than a very few of the others. Now, you may say that I go too far in relating the picker of a coffee berry in far off Brazil and food growers elsewhere to my creation; that this is an extreme position. I shall stand by my claim. There isn't a single person in all these millions, including the president of the pencil company, who contributes more than a tiny, infinitesimal bit of know-how. From the standpoint of know-how the only difference between the miner of graphite in Ceylon and the logger in Oregon is in the type of know-how. Neither the miner nor the logger can be dispensed with, any more than can the chemist at the factory or the worker in the oil field—paraffin being a by-product of petroleum.

RP.21
Here is an astounding fact: Neither the worker in the oil field nor the chemist nor the digger of graphite or clay nor any who mans or makes the ships or trains or trucks nor the one who runs the machine that does the knurling on my bit of metal nor the president of the company performs his singular task because he wants me. Each one wants me less, perhaps, than does a child in the first grade. Indeed, there are some among this vast multitude who never saw a pencil nor would they know how to use one. Their motivation is other than me. Perhaps it is something like this: Each of these millions sees that he can thus exchange his tiny know-how for the goods and services he needs or wants. I may or may not be among these items.

No Master Mind

RP.22
There is a fact still more astounding: the absence of a master mind, of anyone dictating or forcibly directing these countless actions which bring me into being. No trace of such a person can be found. Instead, we find the Invisible Hand at work. This is the mystery to which I earlier referred.

RP.23
It has been said that "only God can make a tree." Why do we agree with this? Isn't it because we realize that we ourselves could not make one? Indeed, can we even describe a tree? We cannot, except in superficial terms. We can say, for instance, that a certain molecular configuration manifests itself as a tree. But what mind is there among men that could even record, let alone direct, the constant changes in molecules that transpire in the life span of a tree? Such a feat is utterly unthinkable!

RP.24
I, Pencil, am a complex combination of miracles: a tree, zinc, copper, graphite, and so on. But to these miracles which manifest themselves in Nature an even more extraordinary miracle has been added: the configuration of creative human energies—millions of tiny know-hows configurating naturally and spontaneously in response to human necessity and desire and in the absence of any human master-minding! Since only God can make a tree, I insist that only God could make me. Man can no more direct these millions of know-hows to bring me into being than he can put molecules together to create a tree.

RP.25
The above is what I meant when writing, "If you can become aware of the miraculousness which I symbolize, you can help save the freedom mankind is so unhappily losing." For, if one is aware that these know-hows will naturally, yes, automatically, arrange themselves into creative and productive patterns in response to human necessity and demand—that is, in the absence of governmental or any other coercive masterminding—then one will possess an absolutely essential ingredient for freedom: a faith in free people. Freedom is impossible without this faith.

RP.26
Once government has had a monopoly of a creative activity such, for instance, as the delivery of the mails, most individuals will believe that the mails could not be efficiently delivered by men acting freely. And here is the reason: Each one acknowledges that he himself doesn't know how to do all the things incident to mail delivery. He also recognizes that no other individual could do it. These assumptions are correct. No individual possesses enough know-how to perform a nation's mail delivery any more than any individual possesses enough know-how to make a pencil. Now, in the absence of faith in free people—in the unawareness that millions of tiny know-hows would naturally and miraculously form and cooperate to satisfy this necessity—the individual cannot help but reach the erroneous conclusion that mail can be delivered only by governmental "master-minding."

Testimony Galore

RP.27
If I, Pencil, were the only item that could offer testimony on what men and women can accomplish when free to try, then those with little faith would have a fair case. However, there is testimony galore; it's all about us and on every hand. Mail delivery is exceedingly simple when compared, for instance, to the making of an automobile or a calculating machine or a grain combine or a milling machine or to tens of thousands of other things. Delivery? Why, in this area where men have been left free to try, they deliver the human voice around the world in less than one second; they deliver an event visually and in motion to any person's home when it is happening; they deliver 150 passengers from Seattle to Baltimore in less than four hours; they deliver gas from Texas to one's range or furnace in New York at unbelievably low rates and without subsidy; they deliver each four pounds of oil from the Persian Gulf to our Eastern Seaboard—halfway around the world—for less money than the government charges for delivering a one-ounce letter across the street!

RP.28
The lesson I have to teach is this: Leave all creative energies uninhibited. Merely organize society to act in harmony with this lesson. Let society's legal apparatus remove all obstacles the best it can. Permit these creative know-hows freely to flow. Have faith that free men and women will respond to the Invisible Hand. This faith will be confirmed. I, Pencil, seemingly simple though I am, offer the miracle of my creation as testimony that this is a practical faith, as practical as the sun, the rain, a cedar tree, the good earth.

RP.29

Leonard E. Read (1898-1983) founded FEE in 1946 and served as its president until his death.

[zabster151]

just found this.lol

[BgMc31]

.....nevermind, not worth the effort to argue! LOL!!

[DSM4Life]

.....nevermind, not worth the effort to argue! LOL!!

Pretty much. Im done with it as well.

[Flagg]

.....nevermind, not worth the effort to argue! LOL!!

Ditto mate. I had a lot to say but what's the point. This is one of those perpetual arguments without end, with people not debating but desperately trying to get their attitudes and opinions across and who can do it the loudest, rudest or most intelligently. This is not a debate.

The human race sucks. Not a subset, not a religious group, not some neocons, people in general, suck.

[zabster151]

because i am correct,

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

lol oh you guys... I love this place!

[BgMc31]

because i am correct,

No, you're far from correct. But even in the face of evidence it makes no sense to point out the error of your thinking, because it won't sway your thinking any other way. So with that said, why try. You can go on through life thinking you are correct and that's your right. But thinking you are right and being right are two completely different things.

[zabster151]

No, you're far from correct. But even in the face of evidence it makes no sense to point out the error of your thinking, because it won't sway your thinking any other way. So with that said, why try. You can go on through life thinking you are correct and that's your right. But thinking you are right and being right are two completely different things.

whatever you will find out soon enough.

[BgMc31]

whatever you will find out soon enough.

Hey, Chicken Little, the sky really isn't falling!!!

[DSM4Life]

Hey, Chicken Little, the sky really isn't falling!!!

[stevey_6t9]

Hey, Chicken Little, the sky really isn't falling!!!

lmao.

talking about conspiracies since this thread is full of them...

2pac is still alive! the government is hiding him under barack obama to keep the white house extra black. its true here il show you the math

1243234\45365* 45.34458- 465463 = 2pac alive

[stevey_6t9]

dsm for president

[Mooseman33]

zabster, u are fvking crazsy man..

aside from everything else i disagree with you about, fvk raising the minium wage..small business is dying as it is, to raise the min. wage is crazy...

oh yeah, Big Sexy, i love u man, the world would be much better without muslims....
and for that matter, zabster too....

[zabster151]

wow, so what part about helping business with taxes and businesses loans did you not understand. if the business owner has more money they can pay more. thats how it should be cost of living does not mach up even close to wage's how can you not be for people making more money when they work your a piece of S#$t. o yea Moosman your F&*ing Dumb would you actually do some research about what happed THERE WERE NO MUSLIMS INVOLVED. WHY DON'T YOU PEOPLE GET THAT. so far nobody on this topic has had any proof that a Muslim has attacked America. all you have is what the news told you. on the other hand you have BJJ,horus and I who have done lots of research and have come to the same conclusion just like 20 million other Americans who are smart and they know this was done by CIA. all planed to make you poor and stupid i think its working. so keep drinking the fluoride mercury Prozac in your water suck down the aspertain in your gum. remember they would never lie to you there the government you trust them.

[zabster151]

This is great i love you guys...

[zabster151]

what a joke you people have no defense because you know nothing on this subject and are blind to physics. I really thought you guys were smarter then this and not so ignorant. especially because this community use Anabolic Steroids and the administration and doctors all a around say how bad they are. but we at this form are smarter then that and know how to RESEARCH something to find the truth. but in this case you believe whatever the TV tells you.

[Matt]

This was almost an interesting thread until the conspiracy bollocks started, those that believe the US (cia) were behind the 9,11 bombings should grow up because your starting to sound really retarded and id have to question your age.....

[tupollo]

This was almost an interesting thread until the conspiracy bollocks started, those that believe the US (cia) were behind the 9,11 bombings should grow up because your starting to sound really retarded and id have to question your age.....

this....so this...

[Kiki]

I'd like to chime in a little here...

Father is Kuwaiti, mother is American. My father is Muslim, my mother is Catholic originally of Italian decent, and I was raised as a Muslim, however don't consider myself one not because of bad sentiment, but because of the fact that religion on a whole to me is man made and was a tool used to create law and order and to control populations. I've lived on both sides of the world. Most people are blinded by their own ignorance, and the local news channels or newspapers they read continues to fuel that ignorance.

I don't understand how some people actually watch and believe what they see on Fox news. Some of the stuff they spew on that channel is just as bad as the garbage arabic news channel which are anti west.

I think people need to be much more skeptical of what they are reading or watching for world news. People need to remember that not everything is the truth, and that biased papers and channels exist. People also need to remember that higher powers exist, and some of these powers control the media. Controlling the media is propaganda, just not as blatantly obvious.

On the topic of 9/11, I find it impossible that a group of terrorist were able to fly a plane into the Pentagon. The States has the most advanced military hardware, it's impossible to fly a commercial airliner into one of the most important military command centers in the world that is constantly being monitored by radar and that has airfields with fighter jets that could get in the air and circling the pentagon in minutes.

The most logical reason behind 9/11 was that it's an inside job, as a precursor to invade Iraq. Oil contracts = Big bucks. The amount of money gained through these contracts was obviously an incentive for this inside job to be carried out.

Muslim terrorists exist, but they're mostly in the poorer countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. Terrorists or people that preach that shit get hunted down in Kuwait. The government here does not tolerate anyone going around in public, or on T.V, preaching strong anti West sentiment. Are there terrorists in Kuwait? sure, but they're mostly very secretive about it and will never be out in the open about it. But hey, just as these people exist here so do these people exist every where else. A few bad apples should not make a whole religion look bad.

I do agree however that building a Mosque on ground zero is inappropriate.

[zaggahamma]

I'd like to chime in a little here...

Father is Kuwaiti, mother is American. My father is Muslim, my mother is Catholic originally of Italian decent, and I was raised as a Muslim, however don't consider myself one not because of bad sentiment, but because of the fact that religion on a whole to me is man made and was a tool used to create law and order and to control populations. I've lived on both sides of the world. Most people are blinded by their own ignorance, and the local news channels or newspapers they read continues to fuel that ignorance.

I don't understand how some people actually watch and believe what they see on Fox news. Some of the stuff they spew on that channel is just as bad as the garbage arabic news channel which are anti west.

I think people need to be much more skeptical of what they are reading or watching for world news. People need to remember that not everything is the truth, and that biased papers and channels exist. People also need to remember that higher powers exist, and some of these powers control the media. Controlling the media is propaganda, just not as blatantly obvious.

On the topic of 9/11, I find it impossible that a group of terrorist were able to fly a plane into the Pentagon. The States has the most advanced military hardware, it's impossible to fly a commercial airliner into one of the most important military command centers in the world that is constantly being monitored by radar and that has airfields with fighter jets that could get in the air and circling the pentagon in minutes.

The most logical reason behind 9/11 was that it's an inside job, as a precursor to invade Iraq. Oil contracts = Big bucks. The amount of money gained through these contracts was obviously an incentive for this inside job to be carried out.

Muslim terrorists exist, but they're mostly in the poorer countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. Terrorists or people that preach that shit get hunted down in Kuwait. The government here does not tolerate anyone going around in public, or on T.V, preaching strong anti West sentiment. Are there terrorists in Kuwait? sure, but they're mostly very secretive about it and will never be out in the open about it. But hey, just as these people exist here so do these people exist every where else. A few bad apples should not make a whole religion look bad.

I do agree however that building a Mosque on ground zero is inappropriate.

in your opinion is fox news the worse or the only news channel that misinforms/misleaads

[tupollo]

I do agree however that building a Mosque on ground zero is inappropriate.

why?

[Mooseman33]

zabster u are shit crazy man....

no need to continue.

[zabster151]

o well i tried no hard feelings i love to debate.

[zabster151]

what part of free fall speed don't you get. Ok here we go when a building falls straight down into its own foot print there is resistance. Unless every floor is blown out from under the next. thats the only way to create free fall. "still with me" so unless that happens it is impossible for a building to fall at free fall speed. "Ok ready" now NIST has stated that all three buildings fell at free fall speed. Now we saw the buildings fall they fell pretty fast and direct "correct" so thats imposable being how there were hundreds of floors between the top and ground unless control demo. and if you have ever seen a building of that magnitude being built its like a rats nest of steel re bar garters and concrete pretty much buildings don't fall that way when built that well. unless controlled demo. so thats were i get 100% because the science math and common sense show me 100% confidence. http://ae911truth.org/ these are the top architect in the world

[Bonaparte]

Back to the original topic: Who cares if they build a mosque? If they bought the plot of land, they basically have the right to build whatever the hell they want there. Besides, it isn't even that close to Ground Zero, anyway. This whole thing sounds to me like Fox News is finally running out of things to scare hicks with.

[tupollo]

Back to the original topic: Who cares if they build a mosque? If they bought the plot of land, they basically have the right to build whatever the hell they want there. Besides, it isn't even that close to Ground Zero, anyway. This whole thing sounds to me like Fox News is finally running out of things to scare hicks with.

does the westboro baptist church have the right to protest marines funerals and thank god for their deaths?...yes...should they....no.

[Bonaparte]

does the westboro baptist church have the right to protest marines funerals and thank god for their deaths?...yes...should they....no.

Although that isn't exactly a fair comparison, you made my point for me. They can and they will, so there is no point in getting all up in arms about it (in the mosque case). The reason it is an unfair comparison is that the muslims in their new mosque aren't going to be praising the 911 bombers all day (I would hope and assume). They aren't going out of their way to piss anyone off (unlike the Wesboro people who can't be ignored).