Of course you can run aas at 18... I did.

[LolWuter]

Listen to Sir solidarity, he's very knowledgeable. If you do 10 cycles starting at age 18, you would most likely end up on TRT. If you do 10 cycles, starting at age 25, you would most likely end up on TRT. Understood? Age doesn't matter. I know an idiot who started juicing at 15 and stunted his growth but his test levels still went back up, even without doing PCT on his second cycle, although it took him a while to get back up. It's extremely difficult to get shut down off one cycle at age 18 or 28 if you're not genetically predisposed to low test and low androgen. But, if you go on and off for years, you'd most likely end up on trt either way.

[sir.solidarity]

So you think the dangers of AAS at a young age justify lying?

Read more of what, hearsay from people such as yourself? Don't patronize me.

Gee, maybe we should go back to telling kids smoking weed makes you kill your family and go insane too...

You can't justify lying to full grown adults for the "greater good" of their health because when one of their friends runs a cycle and is one of the luckies who never suffers from anything...you look like a ****ing liar, and when you stop exaggerating, your credibility is worthless.

Tell these FULL GROWN 20+ YEAR OLD ADULTS the truth about steroids and let them make their own choices and mistakes. If you don't want to provide a source because of age, by all means, but don't sit there and go above and beyond calling every "kid" who cycles a "young stupid fuk" for risking side effects that are completely impossible and unrelated to AAS because you're worried about it ****ing it up for you but disguising it as good intentions.

[The Bear 79]

So you think the dangers of AAS at a young age justify lying?

Prove they are lies, show some sort of evidence that the potential of causing irreversible damage to undeveloped systems from cycling too going is a lie.

[stephenschmidt1]

I know you all probably think Im agreeing that its okay to take AAS younger then 25 because I am 23, but thats not the case.

Both sides of this arguement keep saying "prove it", but the fact is that neither side can prove it. Scientist have done barely any research on the long term effects of AAS esp the long term effects of young adults on AAS. On the other hand just because you are a vet like the OP doesnt mean you can say every problem you ever had is caused from AAS use at a young age.

Neither side can prove any of these claims the science side can only speculate what possible side effects could be and how people could be effected. While the vet side can only talk about personal experiences of theirs and people they know, which have wayyy too many variables and no real proof to back them up.

Im 23 and Im half way through with my first cycle. I feel that I am old enough, mature enough and educated enough to make this choice. If I ask for some information and someone advises that im too young I say thanks for the concern, but in the end all you can do is advise and if a young person is going to cycle regardless then lets get them the right information to limit harmful side effects as much as possible.

[bigswoll]

They've actually done a lot of research and it's proven your at a much higher risk to **** yourself up for life. What it tells me I's that your lazy and want results overnight and your not willing to work for it. And saddest part I's your gonna end up I'n worse shape then when u started cause u don't know what your doing or saying. Do u have your diet mastered? Have u had your levels checked? I'm gonna say no

[FONZY007]

They've actually done a lot of research and it's proven your at a much higher risk to **** yourself up for life. What it tells me I's that your lazy and want results overnight and your not willing to work for it. And saddest part I's your gonna end up I'n worse shape then when u started cause u don't know what your doing or saying. Do u have your diet mastered? Have u had your levels checked? I'm gonna say no

See that's the one that bugs me everyone says oh so an so was fine after but yea u might feel like it at first, I am on hrt and my wife wanted another child so i got off and did a pct, it took about 4-5 months after I got off to start to feel the low test symptoms...

Bottom line show me bw that the young boy was fine afterwards, your just taking there word for it

[sir.solidarity]

Prove they are lies, show some sort of evidence that the potential of causing irreversible damage to undeveloped systems from cycling too going is a lie.

PROVE THEY ARE FACTS
You don't make claims without providing evidence.

That's like accusing someone of murder in court and telling them it's their responsibility to prove they are innocent...
Objectively prove that, they and them, have an "undeveloped" system. Define developed? Do doctors even possess the means of evaluating the state of someones endocrine system progression? No, not to the effect of pinpointing a specific age, it's arbitrary to say the least. Mind you these are the same doctors who went before congress and agreed that anabolic steroids led some picksmoocher on Paxil to suicide. Frankly, they are no more credible than you, they're just dirty drug salesman.

Define "they" bigswoll, "they" as in the magical steroid gnomes that conduct studies in the permanently shriveled balls of "stupid fuks" who cycled before 25?

You all repeat and refine your own hearsay. At most, you Google "STEROIDS...BAD FOR KIDS?" and read a couple off the first page and think you're a gear sage.

I work at a methadone clinic, i see juicers all the time and you can tell they abuse the shit just as much as the dope.
Anything out of moderation is a risk to your health. The magnitude varies depending on the act. One individual may be more susceptible than another but trying to delve into it with tainted science is just plain ignorant.

Irresponsible behavior is prevalent amongst people of every age group.

[JDBeretta]

The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claims...

[The Bear 79]

PROVE THEY ARE FACTS
You don't make claims without providing evidence.

That's like accusing someone of murder in court and telling them it's their responsibility to prove they are innocent...
Objectively prove that, they and them, have an "undeveloped" system. Define developed? Do doctors even possess the means of evaluating the state of someones endocrine system progression? No, not to the effect of pinpointing a specific age, it's arbitrary to say the least. Mind you these are the same doctors who went before congress and agreed that anabolic steroids led some picksmoocher on Paxil to suicide. Frankly, they are no more credible than you, they're just dirty drug salesman.

Define "they" bigswoll, "they" as in the magical steroid gnomes that conduct studies in the permanently shriveled balls of "stupid fuks" who cycled before 25?

You all repeat and refine your own hearsay. At most, you Google "STEROIDS...BAD FOR KIDS?" and read a couple off the first page and think you're a gear sage.

I work at a methadone clinic, i see juicers all the time and you can tell they abuse the shit just as much as the dope.
Anything out of moderation is a risk to your health. The magnitude varies depending on the act. One individual may be more susceptible than another but trying to delve into it with tainted science is just plain ignorant.

Irresponsible behavior is prevalent amongst people of every age group.

So when John Q. Axe Murderer go's on trial, there's no need for him to prove his innocence, there's no need for him to provide evidence supporting his side of the story??....................That's what I thought. You guys are hilarious, keep em coming though, by the time this is all over & you guys have been exposed for the reckless, ignorant fools you truly are, maybe these young kids will be less likely to listen to you. You guys stay on the path you're on & by the end, your names will be so severely discredited, your membership here will be useless for much more than amusement & entertainment for the rest of us.

[Blergs]

I dont think all your issues are from AAS but great post non the less

[antrio1]

What gets me is the kids that ask about taking steroids on this forum but then don't listen when everyone tells them to wait or goes against the advice they asked for in the first place

[Blergs]

Listen to Sir solidarity, he's very knowledgeable. If you do 10 cycles starting at age 18, you would most likely end up on TRT. If you do 10 cycles, starting at age 25, you would most likely end up on TRT. Understood? Age doesn't matter. I know an idiot who started juicing at 15 and stunted his growth but his test levels still went back up, even without doing PCT on his second cycle, although it took him a while to get back up. It's extremely difficult to get shut down off one cycle at age 18 or 28 if you're not genetically predisposed to low test and low androgen. But, if you go on and off for years, you'd most likely end up on trt either way.

as you would if you never touched AAS and cared to check your levels in your 40's.
so does it really matter? not in that regard to do with being on HRT or not. most would end up on it if they wanted there 40yr levels back to there 20's, with or WITHOUT aas.

thats not why not to run AAS young. its the other part of which I agree with you on. development!

also no on NEEDS PCT, they will ALLL recover with or without it (if they where going to anyway) but PCT HELPS recovery, it dosent CAUSE it.

just wanted to point that out to the newbies that might pop in...

[Blergs]

Prove they are lies, show some sort of evidence that the potential of causing irreversible damage to undeveloped systems from cycling too going is a lie.

its not irreversible damage its NOT DEVELOPING that is the DAMAGE!

your joking right????

[sir.solidarity]

So when John Q. Axe Murderer go's on trial, there's no need for him to prove his innocence, there's no need for him to provide evidence supporting his side of the story??....................That's what I thought. You guys are hilarious, keep em coming though, by the time this is all over & you guys have been exposed for the reckless, ignorant fools you truly are, maybe these young kids will be less likely to listen to you. You guys stay on the path you're on & by the end, your names will be so severely discredited, your membership here will be useless for much more than amusement & entertainment for the rest of us.

Yes mother f*cker, the basic premise of the criminal justice system is "innocent until proven guilty", god damn, someone didn't even make it to 1st semester of community college. Google it...

NO SERIOUSLY GOOGLE THE WORDS "BASIC PREMISE OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM"

you're an idiot.

[sir.solidarity]

What gets me is the kids that ask about taking steroids on this forum but then don't listen when everyone tells them to wait or goes against the advice they asked for in the first place

People here "ask" about steroids because they want to know where to get them. All the information most starters want and need is on the main page in the profiles.

What gets me is how easily I can identify an insecure old sack of gyno is use of the word "kids" with that amount of condescension and bitterness, gee.
Are you one of those old gear heads who goes to planet fitness because they want to be the strongest guy in the place again to relive their glory days?

99% of the time, someone asks a question and instead of answering you ask them 10 other questions then put your stamp of disapproval and send them on their way.
If "kids" want to get them, they will, misinformation only perpetuates the success of scammers and bunk gear. If you have any moral disposition with the steroid business you might want to stop buying and using before you tell anyone else that they simply don't fit the criteria.

Don't want to contribute? Simply don't post. Trust me they see the UNDER 25? READ THIS? thread, and they don't care...you're just giving them 1 more post to respond to so they can get their 100 count and pm a mod.

[Brohim]

Prove they are lies, show some sort of evidence that the potential of causing irreversible damage to undeveloped systems from cycling too going is a lie.

Bear why do you berate these young kids? Truth is your a hypocrite if you use AAS and tell other's not to. The fact's are if you use AAS it's a "risk" that your natural hormone level's will never recover to what they were.

With that said, all the young folks - the reason to not use AAS, especially at a young age is that your hormones are up-regulating even in your 20's. So there is no reason to risk lowering them. It makes more sense for someone who is older and who's endrocrine system is already down regulating hormones.

Truth is AAS at any age you risk lowering your testosterone level's for good to where you need weekly or bi-weekly injection's just to feel normal.

[FONZY007]

Bear why do you berate these young kids? Truth is your a hypocrite if you use AAS and tell other's not to. The fact's are if you use AAS it's a "risk" that your natural hormone level's will never recover to what they were.

With that said, all the young folks - the reason to not use AAS, especially at a young age is that your hormones are up-regulating even in your 20's. So there is no reason to risk lowering them. It makes more sense for someone who is older and who's endrocrine system is already down regulating hormones.

Truth is AAS at any age you risk lowering your testosterone level's for good to where you need weekly or bi-weekly injection's just to feel normal.

Hypocrite lol, guess you haven't been reading.. Yes I use AAS, I'm on hrt also. we try to educate the young, as some of us on here that used AAS at a young age and paying for it. I have 3 friends that also did AAS before 22 and now are in hrt just like me.. Early 30's and on hrt, would like to go back and change those years but can't so we try and educate others not to make same mistake... Is that wrong???

[Brohim]

no I comend you on trying to pass wisdom to the younger guy's. But there is a line on giving information and berating people. Everyone in life has choices. You can only give out information and hope people make the right choice. But berating people you cross a line and does more harm than good. Sometime you have to let (the stubborn ones) learn on their own. No need to get angry at other's even if they make the wrong choice. By berating other's you make an ass out of yourself and then your reputation can get ruined and you lose some of your authority.

[The Bear 79]

Bear why do you berate these young kids? Truth is your a hypocrite if you use AAS and tell other's not to.

Try to keep up big guy I'm not telling anyone not to use nor am I saying steroid users are bad people or even that steroids are bad, I'm simply trying to convince young users to wait until they are at least 25, on the basis that an undeveloped Endocrine & HPTA system is more susceptible to possible irreversible damages. I am no hypocrite. And I only "berate" when berated. (fire when fired upon)

[The Bear 79]

Yes mother f*cker, the basic premise of the criminal justice system is "innocent until proven guilty", god damn, someone didn't even make it to 1st semester of community college. Google it...

NO SERIOUSLY GOOGLE THE WORDS "BASIC PREMISE OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM"

you're an idiot.

Yeah..............lol...............I'm the idiot...............lol................step back & have a look & the BS you have been posting.............lol............I promise, for every one of your "supporters" that thinks I'm the idiot, there are 10 - 15X more that are absolutely positive you're the idiot. I'll say it again, you fvcking Eisenstein wannabes keep hiding behind this "burden of proof" BS because you have absolutely nothing to support your theory that our warnings are lies & scare tactics. Its an embarrassing & desperate cop out & you know it.

[JDBeretta]

I am in total agreement that AAS use before an endocrine system is fully developed is very high risk.

I just want to see something that says what age that happens at.

[JDBeretta]

But I don't give any support or advise to anyone under 25.... That's a moral stance that I choose based on common sense and having a backbone.

[Matt]

I am in total agreement that AAS use before an endocrine system is fully developed is very high risk.

I just want to see something that says what age that happens at.

I think its safe to say that theres more chance of causing lasting damage to the endo/hpta of a 30+ year old than there is to a 20 year old. As ive said before, i myself and many many people i know didn't cycle until after we were 30 and not a single one of us bounced back to our original state....

Whether a person under the age of 25 has the correct mind set to use aas is a different question, sometimes i think not....

Again everyone here has the right to state their opinion when dealing with a younger member asking for cycle advice in a respectful manner, if you feel its wrong please say so then move on.... I keep seeing bully tactics used on our younger members and trust me this is going to stop, simple, if you don't want to help a member then don't post just move on....

But I don't give any support or advise to anyone under 25.... That's a moral stance that I choose based on common sense and having a backbone.

Thats fine mate and your view is respected.....

[swm1972]

Prove they are lies, show some sort of evidence that the potential of causing irreversible damage to undeveloped systems from cycling too going is a lie.

Lol. Here we go again.

[swm1972]

PROVE THEY ARE FACTS
You don't make claims without providing evidence.

That's like accusing someone of murder in court and telling them it's their responsibility to prove they are innocent...
Objectively prove that, they and them, have an "undeveloped" system. Define developed? Do doctors even possess the means of evaluating the state of someones endocrine system progression? No, not to the effect of pinpointing a specific age, it's arbitrary to say the least. Mind you these are the same doctors who went before congress and agreed that anabolic steroids led some picksmoocher on Paxil to suicide. Frankly, they are no more credible than you, they're just dirty drug salesman.

Define "they" bigswoll, "they" as in the magical steroid gnomes that conduct studies in the permanently shriveled balls of "stupid fuks" who cycled before 25?

You all repeat and refine your own hearsay. At most, you Google "STEROIDS...BAD FOR KIDS?" and read a couple off the first page and think you're a gear sage.

I work at a methadone clinic, i see juicers all the time and you can tell they abuse the shit just as much as the dope.
Anything out of moderation is a risk to your health. The magnitude varies depending on the act. One individual may be more susceptible than another but trying to delve into it with tainted science is just plain ignorant.

Irresponsible behavior is prevalent amongst people of every age group.

Bro I went through this with him already before in multiple threads. All you are going to get is tamper tantrum and him telling you it's your duty to prove his unproven theory wrong. A truly dizzying intellect.

In other news I think we might have found a link between steroid use and brain damage. Case in point.

[swm1972]

And I only "berate" when berated. (fire when fired upon)

*cough* bullshit *cough* I was civil the first several times we exchanged posts concerning your theory. It's only when I tried to explain what a bunch of moronic bullshit your 'prove my unproven theory' crap was, that you got all bent out of shape. The fact you can't even wrap your mind around why that argument is so incredibly stupid is truly astonishing.

[swm1972]

Yeah..............I'm the idiot.

we all agree.

[big88sub]

Why even argue with these ****ing retards anymore. If they want to find out the hard way just let them. They have made up their minds and are not willing to except the fact that they are wrong. If you actually know what your talking about and do some research you can come up with enough evidence to prove that what bear and many others say about cycling to young. I'm not saying that all of the authors problems were cause by cycling to young but the rest of them can be drastically impacted andade worse by the fact that he cycled to young messed up his endo system and now has a hormonal imbalance that is irreversible. You kids are just being lazy and looking for the easy way out. Boo ****ing hoo if your friends are all growing bigger muscles than you because your a lazy piece of shot and don't want to put forth the effort it takes to at the top. It's all part of life. The lazy ****ers fall farther and farther behind wile the dedicated move on to bigger and better things while you will be sittin on your ass after you finally give up because the bad choices you made when you where young and couldn't think with nothing other than your Dick come back to **** you and leave you unable to produce your own testosterone which you will obviously to to stubborn to realize won't go to the doctor because no one knows your body better then you attitude will leave you estrogen enriched fat as planted to the ****ing couch watching lifetime eating Ben and jerrys ice cream because your ****ing depressed can't get laid because your Dick doesn't work anymore and your tits are starting to get second looks when you go out. Of chore you will watch the occasional Jerry Springer episode that will probably leave a depressed lazy retard with botch tits questioning his sexuality and then maybe if you ever realize or except what is really happening to you after having a nervous brake down after loosing your job because your self loathing has impacted your work ethic you might finally drag your lazy ass to the Dr where they will do blood tests after sending you threw hrs on mental therapy and thousands of dollars on that just find your test levels are are around that of a female and same with your estrogen levels. You'll get on trt spend thousands of dollars you don't have and have to get a second job flipping burgers just to make ends meet and after many years past of constantly visiting the Dr and mind numbing injections of test and constantly getting blood work done your lying on your death bed in a government supported nursing home because you had to sell everything you owned to pay Dr after Dr and shot after shot over your life time that left you broke alone no lids cause you went so long rejecting the fact you had anything wrong with you it left you totally infertal with no kids no wife because she left your ass 20 years ago to be with someone that could actually function as a man should and you realize that you should have listened and taken someone else's word on the problems that would came to be after you made a stupid decision to use steroids to young

[big88sub]

And as you finally draw your dyin breath you just need to know no one here gives a duck because you wouldn't listen and kept telling everyone to prove this and prove that and wouldn't just shut the **** up get your ass in gear get your diet down to a science go to to the so much you have a name for every piece of steel in there and prepare and educate yourself on the privileges of using aas. Now **** off and grow the **** up

[The Bear 79]

we all agree.

I'm done here I know, I know............"were all better for it" or "you won't be missed"................ You're as fvcking lane as they come man.

[bodybycookiesandcake]

endo system is fully developed at puberty.

common sense not so much.

[swm1972]

Why even argue with these ****ing retards anymore. If they want to find out the hard way just let them. They have made up their minds and are not willing to except the fact that they are wrong. If you actually know what your talking about and do some research you can come up with enough evidence to prove that what bear and many others say about cycling to young. I'm not saying that all of the authors problems were cause by cycling to young but the rest of them can be drastically impacted andade worse by the fact that he cycled to young messed up his endo system and now has a hormonal imbalance that is irreversible. You kids are just being lazy and looking for the easy way out. Boo ****ing hoo if your friends are all growing bigger muscles than you because your a lazy piece of shot and don't want to put forth the effort it takes to at the top. It's all part of life. The lazy ****ers fall farther and farther behind wile the dedicated move on to bigger and better things while you will be sittin on your ass after you finally give up because the bad choices you made when you where young and couldn't think with nothing other than your Dick come back to **** you and leave you unable to produce your own testosterone which you will obviously to to stubborn to realize won't go to the doctor because no one knows your body better then you attitude will leave you estrogen enriched fat as planted to the ****ing couch watching lifetime eating Ben and jerrys ice cream because your ****ing depressed can't get laid because your Dick doesn't work anymore and your tits are starting to get second looks when you go out. Of chore you will watch the occasional Jerry Springer episode that will probably leave a depressed lazy retard with botch tits questioning his sexuality and then maybe if you ever realize or except what is really happening to you after having a nervous brake down after loosing your job because your self loathing has impacted your work ethic you might finally drag your lazy ass to the Dr where they will do blood tests after sending you threw hrs on mental therapy and thousands of dollars on that just find your test levels are are around that of a female and same with your estrogen levels. You'll get on trt spend thousands of dollars you don't have and have to get a second job flipping burgers just to make ends meet and after many years past of constantly visiting the Dr and mind numbing injections of test and constantly getting blood work done your lying on your death bed in a government supported nursing home because you had to sell everything you owned to pay Dr after Dr and shot after shot over your life time that left you broke alone no lids cause you went so long rejecting the fact you had anything wrong with you it left you totally infertal with no kids no wife because she left your ass 20 years ago to be with someone that could actually function as a man should and you realize that you should have listened and taken someone else's word on the problems that would came to be after you made a stupid decision to use steroids to young

First. Every heard of a paragraph? That is truly
Difficult to read like that. Not trying to be a dick but it really is.

Second I hope that was a light hearted attempt at humor. Jerry Springer and questioning your sexuality? From running a cycle ? This is exactly what I was referring to when I said scare tactics. These warnings come across so comical I wonder if you truly expect anyone to take them seriously. There are risks associated with steroid use. That is the only thing we agree on. But to embellish the risks beyond what is known and proven creates a credibility issue and probably does more harm then good.

[swm1972]

I'm done here I know, I know............"were all better for it" or "you won't be missed"................ You're as fvcking lane as they come man.

I hate being lane.

[NoTimer]

What gets me is the kids that ask about taking steroids on this forum but then don't listen when everyone tells them to wait or goes against the advice they asked for in the first place

that's because telling someone that using aas is just no good.you have to show them.I remember a topic about a guy who was about 22 and had used aas and done a great job and a lot of the members were saying ''well,he did a good job and keeped the gains so never mind''....

And as far as the op i can say i've had severe depression for about 2 years plus ocd and other
problems and i haven't used aas.And all those things also pretty much started all together.the fact that so many years have gone by and he is still suffering tells me there is something else going on.

first of all,someone who at 18 wants to look good so badly to use steroids has psychological problems anyway.the fact that somenone feels bad with themselves and are drastically looking for attention is dangerous.After finishing the cycle and (probably)seeing that his physical condition was starting to drop because of stoping the steds that could have made him feel bad.

i also see people being completely relaxed and cool who use steroids and nothing happens to them.Maybe it's the fact that you want a perfect body that is causing the problems and not the steroids.

Anyway,best of luck from me.I feel you

I would go to a therapist if i where you,but make sure it's a good one.

PS:sorry if some things have been mentioned before,i didn't read all the pages