TRT - Self Administered?

[gbrice75]

Well sir I owe much of it to you. When I first signed up I was trying to bulk at 20%. You suggested a cut and pointed me in the right direction. Now I've started my bulk and have positioned myself to attempt my first show about a year from now, and for that I thank you.

Man, I love hearing this. I sure hope you keep us posted as much as possible during contest prep!

[Texkota]

I was able to recomp from 165 20-% bf to my current 160 about 12-% in around 3 months time.

That's freaking awesome, good job. Hopefully I'll be able to do the same. Five pounds and 8 percent is huge.

[Henryhill470]

Anyone know of a good doc in charleston wv ? Or close by ?

[gbrice75]

Anyone know of a good doc in charleston wv ? Or close by ?

Try starting your own thread brother. You'll likely get a lot more views that way.

[gbrice75]

I have my first follow up appt. scheduled for Friday the 14th... looking forward to seeing lab results. Hoping to see some positive changes. Can you guys help me with what to ask to have tested, just in case my doc doesn't know it all (and i'm pretty sure he doesn't, working on a new doc): Here's what I can think of:

Test - free and total (obviously)
SHBG
Estrogen (E2/estradiol specifically, or just ask for estrogen?)
FSH
LH
Liver (what to specifically request here?)
Lipid panel (yay or nay? Anything specific?)
DHEA free & total (yay or nay?)
Pregnenolone (do they even test for this?)

Anything of importance i'm missing? Also, if anything isn't necessary (by necessary, I mean health wise, being cautious), i'd like to forego it as I basically have to pay for bloodwork out of pocket, so keeping cost down is in my best interest)

Please let me know, thanks guys!

[MickeyKnox]

Hey Brice, these are the ones i feel are important..

Free T4
Total Testosterone
Biovailable Testosterone
Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH),
Luteneizing Hormone (LH),
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG),
Estrogen Levels
Cortisol Levels
Cholesterol Levels
Albumin
DHT
DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone)
RBC (red blood count)
WBC (white blood count)
PSA
FERRITIN
IRON

[zaggahamma]

IGF

cuz u know your gonna wanna run that GH

[gbrice75]

Hey Brice, these are the ones i feel are important..

Free T4
Total Testosterone
Biovailable Testosterone
Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH),
Luteneizing Hormone (LH),
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG),
Estrogen Levels
Cortisol Levels
Cholesterol Levels
Albumin
DHT
DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone)
RBC (red blood count)
WBC (white blood count)
PSA
FERRITIN
IRON

Thanks man! Anybody else want to add to this list and/or dispute anything currently on it? PSA will test for prostate enlargement, right?

IGF

cuz u know your gonna wanna run that GH

lol, not gonna happen man. Any other reason I should have IGF tested? I did have it tested for back in December and it was within normal range.

[kelkel]

Add in vit D.

[gbrice75]

Add in vit D.

That your arm in the avy Kel? Fvcking sick. I'd love to have that!

Update - made an appt. with a proper Endo (remember, my current doc is not and endo or uro and seems to have limited knowledge with regards to TRT) for October 10th as I want to make sure i'm being well taken care of with regards to all facets of bloodwork. I just hope we 'gel' together... i.e. he/she continues to 'honor' my existing protocol and tweak it, vs. telling me he/she won't continue to prescribe injections or something along those lines.

[MickeyKnox]

good luck Brice. still following along..

[kelkel]

Yes from a couple days ago. Actually have one more relatively similar.....and thanks...old guys can still hang!

[gbrice75]

good luck Brice. still following along..

Appreciate your continued support and input Mick!!

Yes from a couple days ago. Actually have one more relatively similar.....and thanks...old guys can still hang!

Evidently so!!!

[gbrice75]

Bump... because I felt like it!

So i'm at the tail end of week 4, and really not seeing/feeling much difference yet if any. I guess it's too soon... I need to give it another 4 weeks or so before I panic. I just hear about some guys noticing positive changes after 3 weeks, but I realize we all respond differently. I am just an impatient mofo and am already kicking myself in the ass for not having looked into TRT much sooner (as in years ago).

[kelkel]

You'll be fine. It's a marathon not a sprint.....

[gbrice75]

You'll be fine. It's a marathon not a sprint.....

Definitely. I tell people this all the time in the nutrition forum, yet find it difficult to apply my own advice sometimes.

I think my main problem is I start to get these irrational fears... like 'what if the pin isn't going in deep enough'? 'What if the test is no good (pharma grade purchased at a fvcking pharmacy, duh! Like I said... irrational). 'What if they check my levels and nothing has changed'? 'Am I just a freak case that doesn't respond to treatment'? I just need to stop being paranoid and let things happen.

On another note - I'm wondering what to look for with regards to testicular atrophy, aside from the obvious shrinkage. That particular marker is hard for me to gauge since I see/feel my onion bag every day. I've heard of pain (of which i'm experiencing none currently), discomfort, etc. Anything else I can use to gauge whether or not this should be a present concern? I intend to start HCG either way, but would like to be as informed as possible with what's going on in my body.

[kelkel]

Definitely. I tell people this all the time in the nutrition forum, yet find it difficult to apply my own advice sometimes. always different when it happens to you

I think my main problem is I start to get these irrational fears... like 'what if the pin isn't going in deep enough'? 'What if the test is no good (pharma grade purchased at a fvcking pharmacy, duh! Like I said... irrational). 'What if they check my levels and nothing has changed'? 'Am I just a freak case that doesn't respond to treatment'? I just need to stop being paranoid and let things happen. Back to the patience thing. Stop worrying.

On another note - I'm wondering what to look for with regards to testicular atrophy, aside from the obvious shrinkage. That particular marker is hard for me to gauge since I see/feel my onion bag every day. I've heard of pain (of which i'm experiencing none currently), discomfort, etc. Anything else I can use to gauge whether or not this should be a present concern? I intend to start HCG either way, but would like to be as informed as possible with what's going on in my body.Seriously more info than we needed. Read GD's sticky again. They are not going to turn into raisens or a mass of useless collagen overnight

Easy does it. Shortly you will feel the difference. Referring to TRT, not your nuts.

[gbrice75]

Easy does it. Shortly you will feel the difference. Referring to TRT, not your nuts.

Thanks brother!

[zaggahamma]

imo
ppl who are in great shape and/or havent been lowT for long and/or if youve recently cycled arent going to feel the same trt uphoria that others might

[gbrice75]

imo
ppl who are in great shape and/or havent been lowT for long and/or if youve recently cycled arent going to feel the same trt uphoria that others might

Just saw this after responding to Kel.

I haven't cycled in a year. At the moment, I am definitely not in great shape. Not terrible, but far from what i'd consider 'in shape'. Roughly around 15% bf atm. Re: low T - I have reason to believe I have been this way for many years, however I don't have the proof as I neglected regular (as in once per year) bloodwork throughout the years, and even when I did have it done, it was with uninformed docs who had no clue what they were looking at, not to mention free T was never tested for until I specifically requested it when looking into TRT.

Short answer - who knows. Just biding my time, waiting for 'things' to happen.

[bass]

no way 15%, you're much lower than that judging from your avi! hey GB, checkout my new blood work i just posted, its been about a year and half or so but getting there. patience my friend.

[gbrice75]

no way 15%, you're much lower than that judging from your avi! hey GB, checkout my new blood work i just posted, its been about a year and half or so but getting there. patience my friend.

I'm not nearly as lean as I was in my avy right now.

Saw the post, gonna go check it out now. Glad to hear you're getting there bro!

[zaggahamma]

yeh i understand what your saying g

as i figured i was low T for a long time if not forever

but i hadnt cycled in 17 years when i went on trt and i noticed a huge difference...was also over 20% bf but had been working hard in the gym and diet good...trt was VERY noticeable as there was no other change and i got under 15% and losing weight whilst gaining strength THE WHOLE time...someone like you thats already 15% and having cycled JUST a year ago(not sure if you pct'd?) but i JUST DONT think your gonna get some huge boost...you will just be able to get what you put in...which i know you dont expect more than that and i know you will put the effort in ive seen you do it before

[gbrice75]

yeh i understand what your saying g

as i figured i was low T for a long time if not forever

but i hadnt cycled in 17 years when i went on trt and i noticed a huge difference...was also over 20% bf but had been working hard in the gym and diet good...trt was VERY noticeable as there was no other change and i got under 15% and losing weight whilst gaining strength THE WHOLE time...someone like you thats already 15% and having cycled JUST a year ago(not sure if you pct'd?) but i JUST DONT think your gonna get some huge boost...you will just be able to get what you put in...which i know you dont expect more than that and i know you will put the effort in ive seen you do it before

Definitely ran PCT - 5 weeks Clomid/Nolva and a few weeks of Caber at the tail end.

I don't know what to expect to be honest. I guess I only expect what I've been saying all along - a level playing field. I watch guys around me every day who don't train as hard, don't diet as hard, have less knowledge, yet surpass me. I watch people around me grow muscle and change the shape of their bodies while I stay the same, day after day. Change in diet, training, sleep, etc. makes no difference. There HAS to be a key element missing, and i've pretty much eliminated all but hormones. So, basically I just want the same 'advantage' every other relatively normal guy has. Then I can really show what I'm capable of, drug free (and I do consider TRT to be drug free. I do not consider using test to bring levels up to where they SHOULD already be drug abuse).

[zaggahamma]

Definitely ran PCT - 5 weeks Clomid/Nolva and a few weeks of Caber at the tail end.

I don't know what to expect to be honest. I guess I only expect what I've been saying all along - a level playing field. I watch guys around me every day who don't train as hard, don't diet as hard, have less knowledge, yet surpass me. I watch people around me grow muscle and change the shape of their bodies while I stay the same, day after day. Change in diet, training, sleep, etc. makes no difference. There HAS to be a key element missing, and i've pretty much eliminated all but hormones. So, basically I just want the same 'advantage' every other relatively normal guy has. Then I can really show what I'm capable of, drug free (and I do consider TRT to be drug free. I do not consider using test to bring levels up to where they SHOULD already be drug abuse).

well as much as trt is not cheating...its not drug free..but then again a person with diabetes isnt a druggy or has an advantage..but i guess thats your point...but sometimes we have to come to terms...there may never be a level playing field for a lot of situations...ppl are born with different gifts...and boy did God make us all with such tremendously different bodies

[gbrice75]

Going for my first follow up appointment today after starting TRT just over a month ago. Obviously getting BW done, and will post results up here as soon as I have them. I don't know what he plans to test for, but I'm giving him the following list - let me know if anything should be added or removed:

Total Test
Bioavailable Test OR Free Test
Estradiol
LH
FSH
CBC
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Lipid Profile

I left out DHEA to keep the cost down but if any of you feel it's necessary, i'll add it. By necessary, I mean health-affecting, i.e. something to monitor and make changes in the event levels rise or fall too far.

Wish me luck!

[Vettester]

Excellent!!! We will look for the results.

Any thyroid panels? Also, best to make sure the E2,assay is sensitive.

Fingers crossed!

[gbrice75]

Excellent!!! We will look for the results.

Any thyroid panels?

If you think it's necessary/wise, I can ask for it. What's the specific test to ask for? Just a 'Thyroid Panel'?

Also, best to make sure the E2,assay is sensitive.

How exactly do I say this? Like, what do I ask to be tested for... what's the terminology?

Fingers crossed!

Thanks brother!

[Vettester]

G., here's a link to stop the thyroid madness ... #1 through 10 http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ended-labwork/

Also, there's some great information throughout that site. Check it out.

Yes, on the E2 assay, the standard for men is the 'Sensitive' assay. Not sure how much deviation there is on the standard test, but the sensitive test won't leave any question marks with where you sit on your estradiol.

SHBG could also be put in the mix, but we can calculate that with your free & bio test + albumin, which will be in the other panels.

[gbrice75]

Thanks V!!!

Question - would asking for a 'complete thyroid panel' entail items 1-10 on the link above? Or, do I need to specifically ask for each of them?

[Vettester]

If you ask for a complete thyroid panel, it should have all the TSH, FT3, FT4, RT3, and antibodies. The ferritin and iron tests are essential as well. Without them, I would have never taken the next steps to discover that I'm a carrier for hemochromatosis. Unless already supplement B12 and D3, banking you might be low on them just the same. D3 is critical for managing stable SHBG levels, as well as so many other benefits to help balance your overall program.

Since you're doing them, you might as well get as much as possible, thus leaving no stones unturned.

[gbrice75]

I guess what i'll do this time around is vaguely ask for a complete thyroid panel, and see exactly what was tested for when the results come in. If anything from the list was left out, i'll specifically request it the next time.

[bass]

Kel listed a follow-up blood work in his Finding a Physician stikies,

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-TRT-Physician

also if your doc doesn’t do the sensitive assay you should be okay. recently i did blood work and had both E2 tests, standard and sensitive assay, both came very close on the scale. i believe sensitive assay scale is like 3-70 and standard is 7-42!

[gbrice75]

So, I had my appt. Obviously won't have results for a week or two, but we talked a bit. It's clear to me now (It kind of already was) that this guy's TRT knowledge is VERY limited and I need to find somebody else ASAP to make sure i'm in good hands.

He ordered HCG for me (getting it through him as it's cheaper than any of the pharmacies I tried) and now recommended 2000iu a week, where he originally ordered 1000iu weekly. When I asked why, he said the doctor he uses as a resource that he gets the HCG from recommended that protocol, and knows MUCH more about it than he does. Hmm. Doesn't 2000iu sound kind of high to you guys to start with?

He prescribed me Arimidex at my request. He wasn't thrilled... said he'd rather try natural supplementation first (I don't know what he specifically had in mind, but I just demanded Arimidex as I know what works) but wouldn't argue if that's what I wanted. Here's where it gets weird...

Without my asking, he prescribed me Proscar (Finasteride). When I asked why, he said something to the effect of "with the direction you're going with this, you might as well..." and I really didn't ask for further explanation. At the time, I wasn't sure what Proscar was (i.e. I didn't know it was Finasteride) so figured i'd just research when I got home. From what I've read about Finasteride, i'd rather stay away from it unless I actually need it. What do you guys think about him prescribing this, and about the drug in general?

Other than that, I just spit out all the labs I wanted tested for. There were quite a few he wasn't going to test for (CBC, Lipid, Metabolic Panel, etc) but didn't object to any I mentioned.

I told him that I split the test dosage to 2x weekly (he originally prescribed 1 shot a week) and he said it wasn't a bad idea, but really didn't go beyond that. So at this point, i'm just waiting on my labs and we'll see what's what. Also searching for an endo or urologist that knows what's up, ASAP!

[Technologist]

Without my asking, he prescribed me Proscar (Finasteride). When I asked why, he said something to the effect of "with the direction you're going with this, you might as well..." and I really didn't ask for further explanation. At the time, I wasn't sure what Proscar was (i.e. I didn't know it was Finasteride) so figured i'd just research when I got home. From what I've read about Finasteride, i'd rather stay away from it unless I actually need it. What do you guys think about him prescribing this, and about the drug in general?

He's prescribing it preemptively for your prostate 5mg or 1mg for hair loss. The stuff is not something you want to take. Just read the endless anti Finasteride forums of men messed up for years or life from the permanent Finasteride side effects.


Example:

propeciahelp.com

[bass]

Do you live in southern California? LOL never heard of that drug either. IMO just stay with the standard TRT protocol for at least 6 months then consider adding other things.

[kelkel]

Look at this link and see if it helps. More in the finding a doc sticky.

http://www.a4m.com/directory.html?page=3&find=find

What area of NJ? I'm familiar with a good doc in the Cherry Hill area if you're near there. PM me.

[gbrice75]

Do you live in southern California? LOL never heard of that drug either. IMO just stay with the standard TRT protocol for at least 6 months then consider adding other things.

lol no, why!?! I agree - I don't plan to fill the prescription, i'm just curious as to why he'd prescribe it without me making a single mention of DHT. PS - Finasteride basically inhibits the conversion of test into DHT, but is also known to have quite a few sides, potentially dangerous ones. That's why i'm surprised he just offered it to me without me ever mentioning anything.

Look at this link and see if it helps. More in the finding a doc sticky.

http://www.a4m.com/directory.html?page=3&find=find

What area of NJ? I'm familiar with a good doc in the Cherry Hill area if you're near there. PM me.

Thx Kel, gonna check it out now. Re: Cherry Hill - damn, i'm on the East Coast, near Red Bank, literally 10 mins from the Ocean. Cherry Hill would be a hike, but if I strike out with finding a new doc, I may have to take you up on that. Thanks, much appreciated!

[bass]

lol no, why!?!

Because I have a good doc!

[gbrice75]

Because I have a good doc!

Gotcha! I wish.

Bass et al., what do you think about my doc doubling my HCG dosage before even having started it?

I also forgot to mention previously that I talked to him about donating blood, how I learned from 'sources' that it's a good and necessary practice for those on TRT, etc. He said it certainly wasn't a bad idea, and a lot of people (not necessarily on HRT) do so to clean the iron out of their blood, but that of all the people he has on TRT, probably 3% of them need to do this, that blood tests never come back with anything that he's even remotely alarmed with. He said donating blood is much more necessary with anabolic steroid users. I'm not informed on the subject enough to get into it with him, so I let it go. But obviously I will likely need to donate monthly as discussed here.