HCG - How important is it?

[Swifto]

I am running a 15 week eq sust cycle when do you recommend starting hcg can I run low dosage throughout due to estrogen build up or should I do larger amounts towards pct?

Go with a larger amount in the middle of the cycle, then a smaller maintenence dose. I have just done this with a 3-4 month cycle.

I havent recovered yet. But as soon as I introduced the HCG at 625ius/ED for the first 7 days I got acne. Thats either from an increase in T, E or progesterine. Which tells me my testis are firing again.

[mikey24]

for a 10-12wk test e cycle @ 400mg ew, w/a 4wk dbol kick start. should you start the hcg from the very start week 1? Would it be ok to shoot the hcg with the exact same schedule as the test e, every 3.5 days at 125iu's throughout the entire cycle from week 1- to week 12 or 14?

[Swifto]

for a 10-12wk test e cycle @ 400mg ew, w/a 4wk dbol kick start. should you start the hcg from the very start week 1? Would it be ok to shoot the hcg with the exact same schedule as the test e, every 3.5 days at 125iu's throughout the entire cycle from week 1- to week 12 or 14?

Yes.

12-14 weeks is ok IMHO. I have used this protocol and not suffered with estrogen/progesterone side effects. Make sure you use an AI IMHO. Control estrogen where possible as the HCG will cause E2 levels to build.

Start with 250ius every 3.5 day. 125ius is a little low. You may even require 500ius if your slightly older...

[JasonT]

I'm currently planning my 1st cycle and was told that HCG might not be necessary...here's my outline:

Test E 500mg/week for 12 weeks
Test P 100mg/EOD for 1st 2 weeks (weeks 1-2) and last 2 weeks after last Test E injection (weeks 12-14)
PCT starts 3 days after last prop injection (nolva/clomid)

I was thinking about running .25mgs Adex/EOD and 500ius HCG (250 twice a week) throughout the cycle (weeks 1-14). Does this sound ok?

Would it be better to start them on week 4?

[Swifto]

I'm currently planning my 1st cycle and was told that HCG might not be necessary...here's my outline:

Test E 500mg/week for 12 weeks
Test P 100mg/EOD for 1st 2 weeks (weeks 1-2) and last 2 weeks after last Test E injection (weeks 12-14)
PCT starts 3 days after last prop injection (nolva/clomid)

I was thinking about running .25mgs Adex/EOD and 500ius HCG (250 twice a week) throughout the cycle (weeks 1-14). Does this sound ok?

Would it be better to start them on week 4?

Week 1 or 4. It doesnt matter greatly. No later than week 4 though.

[mikey24]

Yes.

12-14 weeks is ok IMHO. I have used this protocol and not suffered with estrogen/progesterone side effects. Make sure you use an AI IMHO. Control estrogen where possible as the HCG will cause E2 levels to build.

Start with 250ius every 3.5 day. 125ius is a little low. You may even require 500ius if your slightly older...

thanks for the quick response. Well im fairly young will be 25 in a few months so I should get away with 250ius. So its perfectly fine to run the hcg up into the last day before pct starts? or should u discontinue use of it at the same time u discontinue your shot of test,which would obvisouly be 14 days prior to pct?

[Swifto]

thanks for the quick response. Well im fairly young will be 25 in a few months so I should get away with 250ius. So its perfectly fine to run the hcg up into the last day before pct starts? or should u discontinue use of it at the same time u discontinue your shot of test,which would obvisouly be 14 days prior to pct?

Stop the HCG when you stop the Test Enan.

There is no need to use HCG longer than its needed.

[TommyGUNZZZ]

Stop the HCG when you stop the Test Enan.

There is no need to use HCG longer than its needed.

I just had a question about this. Why would'nt you want to ride out the ester on Test E with HCG? (2 weeks after last injection)

then wait 3 days until last HCG injection to start PCT

[ciptech]

Great post Swifto, really completes the picture. It's like the missing piece of the puzzle.

[MAKAVELI The Don]

Great post.

[Jasongu9999]

Good post as usual Swifto. I used your recommended pct and managed to keep all of my gains. Next cycle I will be using hcg as you recommend also.

[Swifto]

Good post as usual Swifto. I used your recommended pct and managed to keep all of my gains. Next cycle I will be using hcg as you recommend also.

Good. Glad to hear it.

Is 300ius/week enough for a simple 10wk test only cycle? Ldex at .25mg ED or EOD????

It depends on your age and HPTA. 250ius 2x week is usually ok, but sometimes 3x is needed. Or larger doses of 500ius 2x week.

Take a break from using HCG every 10-12 weeks too.

Start at week 2 or 3 and run it throughout. You could ramp it slightly leading to PCT.

[Striatiostation]

Again Swifto, you dont get enough credit from this forum for all your hardwork and help. Thanks again.

Have read through your whole post,
Im very thorough. So just to clarify.

My Next Cycle

300 mg Test Prop -Weeks 1-12 - E/O/D
125 mg Tren Ace - Weeks 1-12 - E/O/D
Dianabol 50mg - Weeks 1-4 - E/D
HCG 250iu X 2 Weekly - Weeks 1-11 - 7 Days Prior to cycle ending. Hit the Last Shot of HCG

5 Days Following Last shot of Prop/Ace
PCT
Nolva- 40/20/20/10
Clomid- 40/20/10/10

does that sound correct to you?

[Swifto]

I just had a question about this. Why would'nt you want to ride out the ester on Test E with HCG? (2 weeks after last injection)

then wait 3 days until last HCG injection to start PCT

It depends on the individual.

Recently I only used HCG the final few weeks of my cycle to experiment and recovered well. But its best used at a low dose throughout.

If you dont bounce back that well, you could ramp the HCG for the final 1-2 weeks of the cycle leading to PCT to kickstart the testes even more. It works well. As an example, 250ius 2x week on cycle, then the final 10-14 days leading to PCT as the ester clears, use 250ius-500ius/ED. Then begin PCT.

Sorry, but can you elaborate on that? I'm young and healthy, and it will be my first cycle. 10 weeks of test e @ 600mg/wk with a typical nolva/clomid pct. I was planning on doing 150ius 2x per week (300ius/wk) for the entire 10 weeks.

Do you recommend more, being such a simple cycle, as well as my first?

Also what do you mean by ramp it into my pct??

Thanks Swifto, your the man for taking the time and effort to educate everyone!!

As I said above, it depends on the person. You need to experiemnt. But 300iu/wk is a little low IMHO. 250ius 2x week minimum.

Will this prevent me from losing the ability to sustain an erection? and will it increase my chances of Gyno? good info but a little confusing, Ive taken t400 and got some unwanted side effects that most of the population get the complete opposite!!!

It will help your chances of sustaining an erection. But I dont know why thats your concern when using a form of exogenous testosterone?

It maintains endogenous testosterone even when shutdown from AAS. If you take 2 steroid users on 500mg/wk Test Enan, one just TE the other TE + HCG. The TE + HCG user should have a higher total testosterone level.

HCG will increase estrogen directly (testes) and via aromotasation. Using an AI will help with the increase in aromotase and only Tamox will help with the direct increase in testicular estrogen.

Again Swifto, you dont get enough credit from this forum for all your hardwork and help. Thanks again.

Have read through your whole post,
Im very thorough. So just to clarify.

My Next Cycle

300 mg Test Prop -Weeks 1-12 - E/O/D
125 mg Tren Ace - Weeks 1-12 - E/O/D
Dianabol 50mg - Weeks 1-4 - E/D
HCG 250iu X 2 Weekly - Weeks 1-11 - 7 Days Prior to cycle ending. Hit the Last Shot of HCG

5 Days Following Last shot of Prop/Ace
PCT
Nolva- 40/20/20/10
Clomid- 40/20/10/10

does that sound correct to you?

Clomid 50/50/25/25/25/25
Tamox 40/20/20/20/20/20

Use Aromasin 10mg/ED.

Your using over 1000mg/wk Test Prop?

[huckleberry]

Will this prevent me from losing the ability to sustain an erection? and will it increase my chances of Gyno? good info but a little confusing, Ive taken t400 and got some unwanted side effects that most of the population get the complete opposite!!!

[huckleberry]

Will this prevent me from losing the ability to sustain an erection? and will it increase my chances of Gyno? good info but a little confusing, Ive taken t400 and got some unwanted side effects that most of the population get the complete opposite!!!

[ironflames]

i think after reading this i am going to add in some...especially doing a tren/test prop cycle for 8 weeks. all ive read about tren is that is shuts you down F****** hard. and if my body has one less thing to bounce back (test shrink) then thatll be a good thing.

[Jaakoppi]

BTW great post swifto. I have used test e, injecting two times/week, keeping short cycle. I've read that HCG would not store many days?!

[chrisdc]

Quich question...i have hcg 11000iu..i inject with 3ml of bact water--mix and inject .2ml ed..so what amount am i taking and is it enough..cant figuire it out..

[Swifto]

So 250ius 2x week. Is ldex @ .25mg eod enough?

Thats fine.

BTW great post swifto. I have used test e, injecting two times/week, keeping short cycle. I've read that HCG would not store many days?!

Once mixed 30-45 days refridgerated. If not mixed, 2-3 years.

Quich question...i have hcg 11000iu..i inject with 3ml of bact water--mix and inject .2ml ed..so what amount am i taking and is it enough..cant figuire it out..

Go to post #1 of this thread. I write about how to convert HCG and make it more managable.

[MonteCarlo]

hey swifto how would u have hcg if halfway through a cycle

[Swifto]

hey swifto If I'm currently on cycle (week 8 short ester cycle prop 400mg week adding var last 6 weeks) of a 14 weeker when and how should I take hcg at this point?? I should have hcg next week (week9)
should I take it at 500iu e3d for 6 shots then 250iu 2-3 times a week till week 14 then tamox and tore pct?

I wouldnt go with 1000-1500ius in the first week. 4 shots of 250ius, or 2-3 shots of 500ius, then back down to 250ius 2-3x week.

[MonteCarlo]

thanks for the reply swifto

[TommyGUNZZZ]

thanks swifto

[chrisdc]

I still cant understand it with my numbers..11000iu with 3 ml of water..inject .15ml..how much am i taking

[Swifto]

I still cant understand it with my numbers..11000iu with 3 ml of water..inject .15ml..how much am i taking

I've told you where to look (bottom of post 1). That explains it in full.

You need to buy some sterile 10ml vials and some bac water or sterile water. Then you can make the HCG far more managable. Its almost impossible to do it how your planning.

Mix 5000ius with 10ml back water in a sterile vial. 1ml = 500 ius.

I also have no idea how to do it with 11,000ius HCG with 3ml bac water. It wont last either. Refridgerated HCG lasts for 30-45 days. If you mix 11,000ius you'll waste the majority.

I explain all of this. How to make it more managble, how long its good for etc..

C'mon mate.

[chrisdc]

i tried to look at your page 3 times..i cant figuire it out ...lets say mine is 10000ius and i mix with 3 ml back water..then 1ml=333 iu's...and i take .15..SO I AM TAKING ABOUT 500 A DAY...THAT SOUND CORRECT...

NOW I KNOW WHY THEY FORCE YOU TO LEARN ALL THAT STUPID MATH IN SCHOOL YOU WILL NEVER USE IN REAL LIFE...INCASE YOU ARE GONNA USE GEAR..HAHAHA

[fattywarbucks]

Question:

Assuming 12 weeks of test e @ 250mg 2xs/wk
1-12 wks enth,14-18 wks pct

Running 250ius hcg 2xs/week
Weeks 4-14
With .25mg e3d Ldex wks 1-14
Would this be a good run?

Also, dumb question?
Hcg is shot IM, right?

Why is this thread not sticky?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Swifto (or anyone who can answer),

I am about to buy 5000iu of pregnyl hcg and planning on using 250iu 2 times per week. If I wanted to combine it with the test and deca I am currently running, how many CC should I draw to get 250iu?

OR is it better to inject sub-Q with a slin pin?

[eddiea6987]

Is HCG really easy to get? because i have found a website online who has it rather cheap , i just dont have any background knowledge of weather this stuff will actually be allowed into the U.S and if it as cheap as like 18 for an amp of 1000ius...
because i know if i go to the losers who get me my gear alll they know is Test they have no idea what PCT is , they are probably just middle men trying to make a buck.
but anyways yeah any info if HCG is really not a hassle to get ...?

[eddiea6987]

hmmmmm ok. dammit now i dont if i should buy this stuff and risk getting screwed

[Swifto]

Its not that easy to obtain, no.

PM me your source and I'll see if I can help mate.

[Jaakoppi]

How should I use my 5000iu HCG? I'm on short (6weeks) test e with Methanox 20-30MG/ed. I haven't started HCG because I've heard that you can start HCG IN THE SAME WEEK YOU HIT THE LAST TEST SHOT. I'm going to hit my last Test in next week.

[Swifto]

How should I use my 5000iu HCG? I'm on short (6weeks) test e with Methanox 20-30MG/ed. I haven't started HCG because I've heard that you can start HCG IN THE SAME WEEK YOU HIT THE LAST TEST SHOT. I'm going to hit my last Test in next week.

Well, you missed the boat in regards to using HCG how I outline in this thread - to prevent testicular dysfunction.

But all is not lost. You can use HCG the final 10-14 days leading to PCT (whether your on exo. Test or not) to kickstart the testes. 250-500ius/ED with an AI is my suggestion. Then conduct PCT with SERM(s).

[Jaakoppi]

Ok that's good to know. Thanks for information.

[Indian Muscle]

I tried injecting HCG in the stomach fat and soon as the pin was in few drops of blood started flowing, is it normal or am i doing something wrong?

[Swifto]

I tried injecting HCG in the stomach fat and soon as the pin was in few drops of blood started flowing, is it normal or am i doing something wrong?

No, I dont usually get any blood in the barrell. But I guess it can happen.

[Yellow]

What do you think about HCG usage for long cycle, swifto?
Because I'm now in the middle of week 9 of my 20 weeks slingshot cycle.
I am using it for week 2-20 (300iu twice per week).
Does it make any lh desensitization or leydig cells damage? (due to prolonged use of hcg)

I read somewhere in the primordial performance's hcg article that it shouldn't be used for too long. If someone do a cycle for more than 12 weeks i.e 20 weeks, then hcg usage should be stopped for 2 weeks after 10 weeks mark then we can use it again. Does it necessary to do?

Many thanks

[Swifto]

What do you think about HCG usage for long cycle, swifto?
Because I'm now in the middle of week 9 of my 20 weeks slingshot cycle.
I am using it for week 2-20 (300iu twice per week).
Does it make any lh desensitization or leydig cells damage? (due to prolonged use of hcg)

I read somewhere in the primordial performance's hcg article that it shouldn't be used for too long. If someone do a cycle for more than 12 weeks i.e 20 weeks, then hcg usage should be stopped for 2 weeks after 10 weeks mark then we can use it again. Does it necessary to do?

Many thanks

Yes, thats right.

If you wish to use it for extended peroids take a break every 9-10 weeks of 2-3 weeks.

[mediumpimpin]

The HCG will come in 1500-5000iu amps but in a concentrated form. You must add Bac Water to dilute it and make it possible to measure precisely.