The Unofficial "Ask a Muslim" Thread.

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, Kale.

I found the entire sermon given by Abu Hamza (which was criticized by the Herald Sun). The sermon is called "How To Live In Australia as a Muslim", and here it is in its entirety:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBvQgalP3mA

If you listen to the entire speech, you will see how the Herald Sun took it all out of context. The speech given by Abu Hamza is directed against extremists. He's basically saying to the extremists that you should not hate Australians, because if you hate them, then how will you help them? And he said that Muslims should help them come to God and away from vices. In this same speech, he also praises Australia for its freedoms, and criticizes the Muslim world for its lack of freedoms.

I think if you listen to the whole thing, you will see that he doesn't seem like an extremist at all. In reality, I think the extremists are those Islamophobes--like the people at Herald Sun--who try to hatemonger against Muslims by taking things out of context and twisting words. This is similar to what the Nazis did against the Jews--the Elders of Zion comes to mind.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[Kale]

Dude are you an Aussie ?

[BuffedGuy]

Dude are you an Aussie ?

Nope. American.

[Kale]

Nope. American.

So how come you know about the Herald Sun, that is a seriously local Newspaper

[BuffedGuy]

So how come you know about the Herald Sun, that is a seriously local Newspaper

Oh, I've read a few articles from the newspaper's website...almost all of which were Islamophobic and sensationalist. I frequent a forum which is populated by a lot of Britishers. They would link to it from time to time.

[BuffedGuy]

Glad you are here, and you've educated me on many things, long may it continue..

Thank you for your kind words. You've been one of the most welcoming members.

I asked you a number of days ago about the importance of the olive tree to muslim's, and as you said it is important. I only asked this question bescause i was watching a program at the time that was showing israelis soldiers taking great pleasure in destroying olive groves that belonged to the Palestinians. They would cross the borders just to destroy as many olive trees as possible..

Yes, it is very unfortunate.

[Kale]

Oh, I've read a few articles from the newspaper's website...almost all of which were Islamophobic and sensationalist. I frequent a forum which is populated by a lot of Britishers. They would link to it from time to time.

Yes there are two main papers in Melbourne. The other one is The Age which is the broadsheet intelligent one. The Herald Sun is actually aimed at people with the reading level of a Grade 6 Primary school student. Seriously sensationalized most of it, unfortunately it is lapped up by he masses

[gst528i]

It is said that some of the Jews are the ones being referred to who have earned God's Anger, and it is some of the Christians who have went astray. The Jews earned God's Anger by always finding loopholes so that they would follow the letter of the law technically, but they would abandon the spirit of the law. God forbade their women from showing their hair, so they found a loophole which was to wear wigs that looked exactly like their hair. What exactly is the point of the prohibition if the hair is replaced with that which looks exactly the same? As for the Christians, the Islamic criticism of them is that they are heedless to the Laws of God and have simply gone astray. Most of them do not even know that the headscarf is commanded in their Bible





I find this very hypocritical. I may be wrong but i don't think any other religion calls any other people that practise other religions to be on the wrong side.
I dont this islam has the right to condemn christians or jews. I understand they come from the same branch. I still think it hypocritical to say muslims should respect and live side by side with jews christians all along praying for their demise just because it says in the quran.
Correct me but does in say anywhere in the bible, or the book that jews use or Sanskrit's ( hinduism) that muslims are wrong or angered god?

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, GST528i.

I find this very hypocritical. I may be wrong but i don't think any other religion calls any other people that practise other religions to be on the wrong side.
I dont this islam has the right to condemn christians or jews. I understand they come from the same branch. I still think it hypocritical to say muslims should respect and live side by side with jews christians all along praying for their demise just because it says in the quran.
Correct me but does in say anywhere in the bible, or the book that jews use or Sanskrit's ( hinduism) that muslims are wrong or angered god?

I can understand how that part of what I said could come across as offensive. I should probably have worded that in a softer manner.

The Islamic attitude towards the Jews and Christians are that they are People of the Book, and in a respected position. The Islamic criticisms of them are not absolute condemnations of them, but rather they are considered 'constructive criticisms' designed to remind them and to bring them back to (what we consider) the Straight Path.

As for praying for the demise of Jews and Christians, this is not even permissible in Islam. Rather, we pray for God to guide them and us.

As for what you said that no other religion criticizes other religions, this is not true. The New Testament has so many criticisms of Jews that it is considered by some to be Anti-Semitic. Just to give an example:

"The Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." (1 Thessalonians 2:14-16)

And there are dozens more verses, in which the Jews and their leaders are heavily criticized. I can provide more examples if you wish. (I am not saying that the Bible is Anti-Semitic; I am saying that the same criticisms could be leveled against the Bible. That is all. I personally like taking a nuanced view of religions in general. I don't like bashing anyone's religion. If it came across that like, then I apologize.)

In regards to the Islamic view towards Jews, I have already dedicated a previous post to this, which basically said that we divide them up into two groups: the good and the bad. This is just as is the case with Muslims and all others.

We also believe that a portion of the Jews and Christians will enter Paradise. This is mentioned both in the Quran as well as in the sayings of Prophet Muhammad [s].

As for why the Bible does not say anything about Islam or Muslims, this is probably because the Bible came into being long before Prophet Muhammad [s] was even born.

Having said that, Islam has a more positive attitude towards Judaism and Christianity, than the other way around. Islam--to Judaism and Christianity--can be nothing more than a heretical cult or the like. Islam has no divine origin according to the Jews and Christians. Prophet Muhammad [s] to them is a false prophet. On the other hand, we Muslims believe that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have divine origins, we love and respect your prophets, etc.

To conclude: yes, Islam has criticisms of Jews and Christians. But it is not all one-sided or absolute condemnation. Rather, it is meant as an admonishment. And there are many verses that speak of them in good terms, whereas in other places it speaks with admonishment. This is similar to the way the Quran talks about Muslims themselves, with some verses praising the Muslim nation, and others condemning portions of the Muslim community, namely the hypocrites from within our own ranks.

Hope this clears it up.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[Kale]

Ah ya gotta love the religious loonies !!!

[*RAGE*]

Buffedguy is it not about your religion that I am talking about it is about what you think you know. You type on how great the Muslim world is and say that the western world has created terrorist and you give a quote to the American Indians. Terrorist have been around long before America was ever discovered. I know firsthand about the Muslim religion and have lived in Iraq and training several of the military and law enforcement people. Most of what goes on there is not how you speak of the religion not even close. Let’s talk about the homosexual which is forbidden in your religion, but it runs ramped in the Muslim world. Let’s talk about incest which also runs ramped in your religion because it is not uncommon to marry in the family first cousin and so on. Let’s talk about the child molestation that happens to the small boys in the Muslim world. You talk about the terrorist like you know who it is but you don’t know anything. Most of the terrorist are not terrorists but farmers that can’t afford to feed their families. The terrorist pay them money to plant the bombs and blow themselves up. You came to this site with questions about dieting and have stay spreading your word about Israel and Palestinian and how we should not support Israel and what they are doing. (Yes citizens are getting killed but citizens get killed in every war that is just a fact of war) I can assure you that when Israel kills a no combatant they feel bad. You talk about war as if you know what it is about. You don’t know what war is until you have been in one and seen you friends killed and had to pick up their body parts off of you.. I am positive that you have not fired a gun and killed someone. War is what governments have, as a combatant you just try to survive each and every day. As once said by a close friend of mine, “when that first round goes past your head nothing else matters.” I also am not on this site to talk about religion but it is hard for me to keep my mouth shut when I see all these post about war and the poor Muslim being picked on by everyone. The Muslim world has been killing its self for 1,000 of years so if you are going to talk or write about something know more then what you read and hear…..

[BuffedGuy]

My dearest colleague Prone2Rage, peace be unto you.

I think you have misunderstood some of what I have said. Let me clarify, God-Willing.

You type on how great the Muslim world is

My dearest colleague, I have never said how great the Muslim world is. Rather, I think the Muslim world today is sunk deep in its dark ages, like Europe went into during its own dark ages. We have despotic leaders in place, who oppress their own people and who curb all freedoms. Poverty and corruption run rife in the Muslim world.

and say that the western world has created terrorist

Yes, I do say that America's foreign policy has done more to recruit terrorists than any other factor. However, I do not say this to "bash" America. I am American myself. Rather, I say it so that people become aware of this and change their course. One cannot change for the better, until one first understands the problem to begin with. For example, Sarah Palin said that we shouldn't worry about or argue about what caused global warming, but instead we should work to stop it. Well, how can you stop it if you don't know what caused it to begin with?

So what I say is not meant as absolute condemnation, but rather as admonishment so that my people--the American people--can fix their affairs. It will benefit both America *and* the Muslim world if this occurs. Our goals are shared: peace, peace, and peace. We've gotten stuck into this mentality where we think that there must be a winner and a loser; no, we can all be winners. It will benefit both sides if they live in peace and harmony! That is why me being American and me being Muslim do not contradict each other. I believe that both my American people and my Muslim brothers will benefit from the same thing: mutual peace, reconciliation, and understanding.

Furthermore, I do not say that America is all bad. Rather, America has many great qualities. I have created a thread on this issue, so you can see some of the things that I think are awesome about America. There are times when I find so many things that are awesome about America that I am just taken aback; my message is simply: don't throw away all this goodness for a policy of war-mongering. Do not render all your good deeds worthless by destroying other nations. Live and let live.

and you give a quote to the American Indians. Terrorist have been around long before America was ever discovered.

I don't know what you are talking about any more, but Muslim terrorists were non-existent before America ever existed.

I know firsthand about the Muslim religion

I know a thing or two as well.

and have lived in Iraq and training several of the military and law enforcement people.

I have lived in the Muslim world for five years, as well as many trips back and forth on top of that. I do not think that being a part of an occupation force will really give you the ability to know a people.

Let’s talk about the homosexual which is forbidden in your religion, but it runs ramped in the Muslim world.

Homosexuality exists everywhere in the world, and I would be hard-pressed to believe that there is more homosexuality in the Muslim world than in America. However, our Islamic Law only forbids open homosexuality, and turns a blind eye to what is done in private in the homes of people. In other words, Muslim jurists could care less what happens underground--it is only what happens openly in society that worries them.

Let’s talk about incest which also runs ramped in your religion because it is not uncommon to marry in the family first cousin and so on.

Most countries in the world do not forbid first cousin marriages, nor consider them to be incestuous. Your statement is simply inflammatory. I've already answered a question about cousin marriages in this thread. Please refer to it for my full response.

Let’s talk about the child molestation that happens to the small boys in the Muslim world.

This is more of the same. You are now just trying to be inflammatory. Like I said, it happens in every country. Would it be appropriate in your opinion to say that Christianity is to be condemned because their priests are known to molest boys? Again, this is a case of those living in glass houses throwing stones.

You talk about the terrorist like you know who it is but you don’t know anything. Most of the terrorist are not terrorists but farmers that can’t afford to feed their families. The terrorist pay them money to plant the bombs and blow themselves up.

I am actually curious to know how you define the word "terrorist". Do you think that if an Iraqi freedom-fighter bombs an American soldier that he is a terrorist for doing this?

I can assure you that when Israel kills a no combatant they feel bad.

Oh thank you, I feel so much better now! Haha. I think everyone expects us just to believe that the Israelis feel bad about it just because they are Jews. When Jews kill civilians, then they feel bad about it. But when Muslims kill civilians, then they love to do it. Bigotry at its finest.

You talk about war as if you know what it is about.

I don't think I've talked about war. I'm opposed to unnecessary wars. I love peace over war.

You don’t know what war is until you have been in one and seen you friends killed and had to pick up their body parts off of you.. I am positive that you have not fired a gun and killed someone.

All Praise be to God! I have yet to kill a person, and I pray that I never do that. I do not think this is something for me to be ashamed about, but rather it is something that is good. Killing people is generally a bad thing.

War is what governments have, as a combatant you just try to survive each and every day. As once said by a close friend of mine, “when that first round goes past your head nothing else matters.”

Look, I understand that you had a tough time in Iraq. I understand that. I'm just saying that our government should never have sent troops in the first place. They shouldn't have sent American sons to die for nothing--worse than nothing: for a lie. Not only were there no WMDs, but I think people really need to step back and realize that even if they had WMDs, does it make sense for a country with the world's largest supply of WMDs to chastise another country for having a few WMDs? But unfortunately nowadays people have stopped reflecting...so it is my job as a Muslim and as an American to get people to reflect.

the poor Muslim being picked on by everyone.

Why is it ok for Americans to cry about those killed on 9/11, but it is not Ok for Muslims to cry for the millions of our own who have been killed? Are we not people? Do we not breathe? Do we not feel?

The Muslim world has been killing its self for 1,000 of years

Unfortunately this is simply not true at all. And this is one area where the average American needs to improve--they do not know anything about history. Just five hundred years ago, the Muslim world was the super-power in the world, way more powerful, successful, etc. than Europe. Europe has not always been on the top, as Americans sometimes think. The Muslim world was on top--just like Europe/America is on top now--for hundreds of years. We have a glorious history.

The idea that the Muslim world has been killing itself for a thousand years is simply false. Rather, up until the 1700s, the Muslim world was extremely powerful and successful. It was only after many things happened that led to the eventual collapse of the Muslim world and Europe pulled ahead. This is all very recent history in the grand scheme of things.

Believe it or not, but different parts of the world were "super-powers" at different times in history. Europe and America were not always number one...not only the Muslim world, but the Chinese, the Mongols, etc. were all "super-powers" or at least regional power-houses back in their day.

I believe that you really need to change your chauvinistic attitude towards other civilizations. I believe that not only is it offensive to my Muslim side, it is also offensive to my American side. To be American means to respect people of all cultures, civilizations, etc. So the American thing to do is not to wage relentless wars against what you think to be inferior cultures and peoples, but rather to live in peace and harmony with people from all different cultures and civilizations.

Please do think on it, and forgive me for any harshness in this post. I know that it is hard for a soldier to see his enemy in any other light than bad, so I understand where you are coming from. May God guide you and I to the Straight Path.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[*RAGE*]

my dearest colleague prone2rage, peace be unto you.

I think you have misunderstood some of what i have said. Let me clarify, god-willing.



My dearest colleague, i have never said how great the muslim world is. Rather, i think the muslim world today is sunk deep in its dark ages, like europe went into during its own dark ages. We have despotic leaders in place, who oppress their own people and who curb all freedoms. Poverty and corruption run rife in the muslim world.

and that is one of the reason we are there and trying to make it better

yes, i do say that america's foreign policy has done more to recruit terrorists than any other factor. However, i do not say this to "bash" america. I am american myself. Rather, i say it so that people become aware of this and change their course. One cannot change for the better, until one first understands the problem to begin with. For example, sarah palin said that we shouldn't worry about or argue about what caused global warming, but instead we should work to stop it. Well, how can you stop it if you don't know what caused it to begin with?

there has been terroists long before foreign policy..terrorist have been around since the begining of time..

so what i say is not meant as absolute condemnation, but rather as admonishment so that my people--the american people--can fix their affairs. It will benefit both america *and* the muslim world if this occurs. Our goals are shared: Peace, peace, and peace. We've gotten stuck into this mentality where we think that there must be a winner and a loser; no, we can all be winners. It will benefit both sides if they live in peace and harmony! That is why me being american and me being muslim do not contradict each other. I believe that both my american people and my muslim brothers will benefit from the same thing: Mutual peace, reconciliation, and understanding.

Furthermore, i do not say that america is all bad. Rather, america has many great qualities. I have created a thread on this issue, so you can see some of the things that i think are awesome about america. There are times when i find so many things that are awesome about america that i am just taken aback; my message is simply: Don't throw away all this goodness for a policy of war-mongering. Do not render all your good deeds worthless by destroying other nations. Live and let live.

live and let live (911)

i don't know what you are talking about any more, but muslim terrorists were non-existent before america ever existed.


I know a thing or two as well.



i have lived in the muslim world for five years, as well as many trips back and forth on top of that. I do not think that being a part of an occupation force will really give you the ability to know a people.

where? I lived with them spent everyday side by side and not as an occupation force. Learned how they lived before saddam and after


homosexuality exists everywhere in the world, and i would be hard-pressed to believe that there is more homosexuality in the muslim world than in america. However, our islamic law only forbids open homosexuality, and turns a blind eye to what is done in private in the homes of people. In other words, muslim jurists could care less what happens underground--it is only what happens openly in society that worries them.

i have lived in several states and yes it is well know to all who were over there (men are for fun women are for marriage) i have seen this first hand there are a lot more homosexuality over there.



most countries in the world do not forbid first cousin marriages, nor consider them to be incestuous. Your statement is simply inflammatory. I've already answered a question about cousin marriages in this thread. Please refer to it for my full response.



This is more of the same. You are now just trying to be inflammatory. Like i said, it happens in every country. Would it be appropriate in your opinion to say that christianity is to be condemned because their priests are known to molest boys? Again, this is a case of those living in glass houses throwing stones.

if you knew what you are talking about you would no how often it is happening over there (seen it first hand again)


i am actually curious to know how you define the word "terrorist". Do you think that if an iraqi freedom-fighter bombs an american soldier that he is a terrorist for doing this?

no

oh thank you, i feel so much better now! Haha. I think everyone expects us just to believe that the israelis feel bad about it just because they are jews. When jews kill civilians, then they feel bad about it. But when muslims kill civilians, then they love to do it. Bigotry at its finest.

what i am saying is jews are not targeting civilians but the terrorist, hamas target civilians to cause tear

i don't think i've talked about war. I'm opposed to unnecessary wars. I love peace over war.

all the above is about war and several of you post are about jews and palestinians being at war


all praise be to god! I have yet to kill a person, and i pray that i never do that. I do not think this is something for me to be ashamed about, but rather it is something that is good. Killing people is generally a bad thing.

not asking you to be ashamed about and yes it is all good to have not been put in this situation

look, i understand that you had a tough time in iraq. you have no clue i understand that. I'm just saying that our government should never have sent troops in the first place. why?they shouldn't have sent american sons to die for nothing--worse than nothing: For a lie. Not only were there no wmds,you do not know this..which shows how much you really dont know except what you read....wmd's were not found but that did not mean they were not there. It is easy to get the stuff out of the country look how much money was taken to jordan but i think people really need to step back and realize that even if they had wmds, does it make sense for a country with the world's largest supply of wmds to chastise another country for having a few wmds? But unfortunately nowadays people have stopped reflecting...so it is my job as a muslim and as an american to get people to reflect.



Why is it ok for americans to cry about those killed on 9/11, but it is not ok for muslims to cry for the millions of our own who have been killed? Are we not people? Do we not breathe? Do we not feel? did not say you couldnt cry. I have cried for you people



unfortunately this is simply not true at all. And this is one area where the average american needs to improve--they do not know anything about history. Just five hundred years ago, the muslim world was the super-power in the world, way more powerful, successful, etc. Than europe. Europe has not always been on the top, as americans sometimes think. The muslim world was on top--just like europe/america is on top now--for hundreds of years. We have a glorious history. (what?) i know this

the idea that the muslim world has been killing itself for a thousand years is simply false. Rather, up until the 1700s, the muslim world was extremely powerful and successful. It was only after many things happened that led to the eventual collapse of the muslim world and europe pulled ahead. This is all very recent history in the grand scheme of things.

Believe it or not, but different parts of the world were "super-powers" at different times in history. Europe and america were not always number one.(no kidding)..not only the muslim world, but the chinese, the mongols, etc. Were all "super-powers" or at least regional power-houses back in their day.

I believe that you really need to change your chauvinistic attitude towards other civilizations. I believe that not only is it offensive to my muslim side, it is also offensive to my american side. To be american means to respect people of all cultures, civilizations, etc. So the american thing to do is not to wage relentless wars against what you think to be inferior cultures and peoples, but rather to live in peace and harmony with people from all different cultures and civilizations. wow where did this come from i never said i did not like muslims

please do think on it, and forgive me for any harshness in this post. I know that it is hardno you dont for a soldier to see his enemy in any other light than bad, so i understand where you are coming from. May god guide you and i to the straight path. i wish you the same

in the care of the lord,
-saladin.

in bold

[gst528i]

Prone2rage you have a really good username chosen for ur self lol...

[BuffedGuy]

Hmmm....it seems like the mods cleaned up the thread. I wanted to reply to the last post by OutlawMuscle...the one with the Quran quotes (horribly out of context)...If the mods could put that one post back up, that would be great, God-Willing.

I don't want to sound ungrateful. I'm really grateful to the mods for cleaning up the thread and removing his posts. I just wanted to deal with that one single post, lest someone who read it actually believe what he said.

If it's not possible to put it back up, no problem. Thanks again for cleaning up the thread.

[Kale]

Hmmm....it seems like the mods cleaned up the thread. I wanted to reply to the last post by OutlawMuscle...the one with the Quran quotes (horribly out of context)...If the mods could put that one post back up, that would be great, God-Willing.

I don't want to sound ungrateful. I'm really grateful to the mods for cleaning up the thread and removing his posts. I just wanted to deal with that one single post, lest someone who read it actually believe what he said.

If it's not possible to put it back up, no problem. Thanks again for cleaning up the thread.

They cant be put back dude. But dont worry I read them all and I cant remember a word of what the tard wrote

[BuffedGuy]

They cant be put back dude. But dont worry I read them all and I cant remember a word of what the tard wrote

Hahaha. Thanks for deleting the posts. I really appreciate it. The mods here rock.

As for OutlawMuscle, I sometimes *do* get angry when people post like that. But then after stepping away from the computer screen and cooling down, I realize that I understand why people hate Islam. I've met countless converts to Islam who say that before they actually studied Islam, they HATED Islam and Muslims. So I want to say to people like OutlawMuscle and others like him that when I get angry and give a sharp response, forgive me; it is my shortcoming that I react in that way. May God unite us upon all that is the truth.

[Kale]

Hahaha. Thanks for deleting the posts. I really appreciate it. The mods here rock.

As for OutlawMuscle, I sometimes *do* get angry when people post like that. But then after stepping away from the computer screen and cooling down, I realize that I understand why people hate Islam. I've met countless converts to Islam who say that before they actually studied Islam, they HATED Islam and Muslims. So I want to say to people like OutlawMuscle and others like him that when I get angry and give a sharp response, forgive me; it is my shortcoming that I react in that way. May God unite us upon all that is the truth.

I didnt delete them, *admin* did. He is the man with the power and a l;ot of common sense

You have a tough battle ahead of you. There are just as many loonies in Christianity as there are in Islam as I am sure you are aware. You will never convert me as I dont believe in either of them but good for you for trying to at least educate people to how a moderate muslim thinks.

[BuffedGuy]

I didnt delete them, *admin* did. He is the man with the power and a l;ot of common sense

You have a tough battle ahead of you. There are just as many loonies in Christianity as there are in Islam as I am sure you are aware. You will never convert me as I dont believe in either of them but good for you for trying to at least educate people to how a moderate muslim thinks.

Well, you requested the admin to look into it. So thank you for that.

Also, I'm actually not trying to convert people to Islam necessarily. In Islam, we are instructed to give dawah, which means to spread awareness and understanding about Islam. The objectives of doing so are many, which do include converting people, but another reason is to soften their hearts and remove hatred of Islam even if they do not become Muslim themselves. So at least I can help with the second issue, if not the former. And verily what is in the hearts is controlled by the One above the heavens.

One last thing: keep in mind that I am an orthodox mainstream and conservative Muslim. I do believe I am moderate, but I am not a liberal/reform-minded Muslim. In other words, I take the Word of God and His Messenger literally, by their obvious meanings and I do not try to "reinterpret" them in an effort of revisionism.

[quarry206]

I can honestly say i have learned more from reading your thread then i have in many years of reading online aboue any one topic...

truely rate this as one of the best threads ever... If somebody is a believer or non believer in islam, it doesn't matter.. knowledge is power to the soul.. and you are teaching alot about others and also giving good advice on just living a good life.

[BuffedGuy]

and that is one of the reason we are there and trying to make it better

Yes, but the problem is that the despotic leaders were put in place by the West. Before Western intervention, we didn't have this problem. For example, the United States is the one who put Saddam's party in power to begin with. So does it really make sense to first place him in power, and then use that as an excuse to invade the country years later?

The destabilization of the Muslim world is a direct result of coming out of colonialism. This can simply be proven by looking at our condition before colonization and afterward.

there has been terroists long before foreign policy..terrorist have been around since the begining of time..

Well yes. I'm just saying that it has not been such a monumental issue until recently, and there are causes for that which we should seek to remedy, God-Willing.

live and let live (911)

As Dr. Ron Paul said, 9/11 is a result of American foreign policy. Had the United States not interfered in the Muslim world, there wouldn't be so many ticked off extremists in the Muslim world, who would have done that dirty act.

It's like an endless feud. Each side is attacking the other in "retaliation", which is creating an endless cycle of violence. We need to break that cycle.

where? I lived with them spent everyday side by side and not as an occupation force. Learned how they lived before saddam and after

You were an American soldier, correct? If you come as an American soldier, people will hate you. If you come as an American citizen, the people will treat you very well.

i have lived in several states and yes it is well know to all who were over there (men are for fun women are for marriage) i have seen this first hand there are a lot more homosexuality over there.

Again, like I said, it exists everywhere.

if you knew what you are talking about you would no how often it is happening over there (seen it first hand again)

Like I said, if you want to stereotype, Christian priests would be the first to fit the bill. Of course, I am against stereotyping in general, and I think what you are doing and saying amounts to bigotry.

what i am saying is jews are not targeting civilians but the terrorist, hamas target civilians to cause tear

I've already dealt with this issue a million times. Israel very much does target civilians, and quite literally uses human shields. As for Hamas, news flash: not all Muslims are a part of Hamas.

all the above is about war and several of you post are about jews and palestinians being at war

I believe that Israel and Palestine should live in peace, according to the 1947 borders, or worst case the 1967 borders. So again, I prefer peace over war.

I have cried for you people

I think we should avoid using terms like "you people".

wow where did this come from i never said i did not like muslims

Well, your posts come across that way.

Let's just agree to disagree, God-Willing. I hope we don't keep going tit-for-tat here.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[*RAGE*]

Yes, but the problem is that the despotic leaders were put in place by the West. Before Western intervention, we didn't have this problem. For example, the United States is the one who put Saddam's party in power to begin with. So does it really make sense to first place him in power, and then use that as an excuse to invade the country years later?

Please explain how we put him in power, He put himself in power. Did America help him at some point, yes... but that was not putting saddam in power

The destabilization of the Muslim world is a direct result of coming out of colonialism. This can simply be proven by looking at our condition before colonization and afterward.



Well yes. I'm just saying that it has not been such a monumental issue until recently, and there are causes for that which we should seek to remedy, God-Willing.

I will leave this one alone


As Dr. Ron Paul said, 9/11 is a result of American foreign policy. Had the United States not interfered in the Muslim world, there wouldn't be so many ticked off extremists in the Muslim world, who would have done that dirty act.

Is that becase you have read or heard this not because you have all the information on why

It's like an endless feud. Each side is attacking the other in "retaliation", which is creating an endless cycle of violence. We need to break that cycle.

That is why we are training them because there would be more violance when we leave. Iran will take over Iraq when it is given back to them

You were an American soldier, correct? If you come as an American soldier, people will hate you. If you come as an American citizen, the people will treat you very well.

During the first gulf war not on this one, I was an American citizen while over there this time and was treated very well

Again, like I said, it exists everywhere.

Yes it does but not to the extent that is does over there

Like I said, if you want to stereotype, Christian priests would be the first to fit the bill. Of course, I am against stereotyping in general, and I think what you are doing and saying amounts to bigotry.

No by sterotyping I would say all Muslim are bad (never said that)



I've already dealt with this issue a million times. Israel very much does target civilians, and quite literally uses human shields. As for Hamas, news flash: not all Muslims are a part of Hamas.

98% of Muslims are not part of Hamas, I would have to say you can not sit here on a computer and say what Israel is doing unless you are there and seeing with your own eyes.

I believe that Israel and Palestine should live in peace, according to the 1947 borders, or worst case the 1967 borders. So again, I prefer peace over war.

I prefer peace over war...I also believe if Hamas was not shooting rocket at Israel they would still be peace.

I think we should avoid using terms like "you people".

I think that was a type0 I did not mean it in a bad way and am sorry if you took it that way.

Well, your posts come across that way.

Let's just agree to disagree, God-Willing. I hope we don't keep going tit-for-tat here.

I do agree to disagree because if I didnt it would take to long and to much of my time out of the reason I am hear

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

Peace be with u

[BuffedGuy]

Please explain how we put him in power, He put himself in power. Did America help him at some point, yes... but that was not putting saddam in power

Peace be unto you, Prone2Rage.

In regards to how America put Saddam's party in power, I have already written a post on it here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...&postcount=158

Please do read the post, because I do not think you can truly understand my position until you do.

Is that becase you have read or heard this not because you have all the information on why

It is because the terrorists tell us exactly why they do the things they do.

I also believe if Hamas was not shooting rocket at Israel they would still be peace.

I've talked about this issue repeatedly on this forum, so I don't think I should keep repeating it. Please see my posts in the News section where I explain how Hamas stuck to the ceasefire, and Israel broke the ceasefire. So no, there would not be peace if Hamas stopped firing rockets. (Nonetheless, they should stop firing into civilian areas anyways, based on religious reasons.) Furthermore, peace without justice is not real peace; it's just subjugation and oppression. The only way to peace is to immediately create a Palestinian state according to the 1947 or 1967 borders and grant the Right of Return or compensation. Anything short of that and there can be no peace, just subjugation and oppression of a native population. We've heard enough excuses in the last sixty years. Enough is enough.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[*RAGE*]

Peace be unto you, Prone2Rage.

In regards to how America put Saddam's party in power, I have already written a post on it here:

I will read this tomorrow and discuss this more later

http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...&postcount=158

Please do read the post, because I do not think you can truly understand my position until you do.

I will and get back with you on that one as well

It is because the terrorists tell us exactly why they do the things they do.

[B]This is not true I have had conducted several interview with terrorists and I explained before most of the terrorists or selfmade terrorists do this because they need money, some were retarted and I am not being mean, several of the terrorist we have interview have had family member kidnapped and forced into committing these crimes. So to me this blow that out of the water...The terrorist hide behind their people like you were saying about Isreal using human shields. I have seen first hand that terrorist like Hamas using human shields. true story the terrorists put a suicide bomb on a small child and sent him to ask American military for candy and then blow them up, but god will he blow himself up before he got there. the terrorist were cought and confessed about this...I see the same thing in Gaza where Isreal being blamed for kill citizens in schools. Hamas is hiding in the schools, hospitals, and ect. and conducting their attacks agains Isreal, so when they fight back and hit the schools and small children are killed dont get me wrong it is very sad (I see that poor child and all his body parts almost everyday and more so when I am talking to about this) but just like in Iraq the terrorists use there own people to include kids to commit their act. Hamas is doing the same thing. It has worked in Iraq and will work in gaza for the people to turn the terrorist in and then the fighting will end. Hamas is bring the disstruction againt their own people[...so to me you can not blame Isreal for this../B]
I've talked about this issue repeatedly on this forum, so I don't think I should keep repeating it. Please see my posts in the News section where I explain how Hamas stuck to the ceasefire, and Israel broke the ceasefire. I understand that but we are talking about it here so lets keep it going. If you listen to the new not resent new Hamas has been shooting rockets for years and conducting raids and terriout activity for years before the invasion of gaza So no, there would not be peace if Hamas stopped firing rockets.No not now it was been pushed to far (Nonetheless, they should stop firing into civilian areas anyways, based on religious reasons.)no they should have not fired the rockit in the first place Furthermore, peace without justice is not real peace; it's just subjugation and oppression.(I agree with you to some point on this but when you talk about peace it goes both ways and justice that will have to go both way The only way to peace is to immediately create a Palestinian state according to the 1947 or 1967 borders and grant the Right of Return or compensation. Anything short of that and there can be no peace, just subjugation and oppression of a native population. We've heard enough excuses in the last sixty years. Enough is enough.yes enough is enough but again it goes both ways Hamas stops shooting rockets, but as I said it has going to far,,,

(I would like to take the time and say Isreal has enough fire power to wipe gaza off the map at anytime but they dont. If you want to wipe out a country you sit back and let the boomber take care of it, but that is not what Isreal is doing and that is why they sent in ground forces just as we did in Iraq. We could have and did win the war in the air and could have just kept kill from above, but that not what we did we sent in ground forces. Now why did we do that so we would not kill all of them. I will make this my last point tonight we went in and put a lot of damage in Iraq but now we are spending 11bill a month to rebuild this country and we are paying contractors to teach and advise the rebuilding of the country so you can say what you want about what is going on over there but you do not have a clue..Gaza is still new as far as what is going on so you dont know what Isreal will do when it is all over. Ok one more even though american are putting the money to make Iraq a better place they are still trying to kill us.
In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

In bold
peace be with you buffedguy

[BuffedGuy]

I can honestly say i have learned more from reading your thread then i have in many years of reading online aboue any one topic...

truely rate this as one of the best threads ever... If somebody is a believer or non believer in islam, it doesn't matter.. knowledge is power to the soul.. and you are teaching alot about others and also giving good advice on just living a good life.

Peace be unto you, Quarry.

Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm very glad that you learned a thing or two from this thread. It is only through talking to each other that our two peoples can ever hope to live in peace and harmony.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[quarry206]

to buffedguy and prone2rage...

i think your two's view points can never be compaired..

buffedguy, you actually read and teach the book of islam. you are currently living in a world (America) that is un-educated on who you are and what you truely believe. and your real goal is to teach and spread knowledge.

prone2rage, your experience with group, is that of something that can not be compaired to nor can be just label as being 'an american soilder' because being a part of group is different. So i feel you are giving a view point that is true, but might be different than the view of the everyday around the world muslim..

I will go on record as sayin, i do believe the avg American soilder is mis-lead about what the muslim religion is about. And i honestly feel young soilders are taught to (even if not meant to) that we are fighting muslims... we aren't fighting muslims, we aren't fighting a religion.. and prone2rage you know that, but buffedguy is talking in general terms that you take offense to because you were above the level of the avg soilder. but buffedguy does not know that, nor could he understand that... but i feel you couldn't understand fully the pain he feels when he hears people down muslims just because of mis-leading believes about 9/11.. the fact is if the said they were doing it for Islam or not, Muslims did not attack the world trade center.. hijackers of a plane did..just because people hide behind a Islam, it does not mean they are Islam..

I honestly feel you two believe alot of the same things.. but your picking apart each others comments until it became a debate...

[*RAGE*]

to buffedguy and prone2rage...

i think your two's view points can never be compaired..

buffedguy, you actually read and teach the book of islam. you are currently living in a world (America) that is un-educated on who you are and what you truely believe. and your real goal is to teach and spread knowledge.

prone2rage, your experience with group, is that of something that can not be compaired to nor can be just label as being 'an american soilder' because being a part of group is different. So i feel you are giving a view point that is true, but might be different than the view of the everyday around the world muslim..

I will go on record as sayin, i do believe the avg American soilder is mis-lead about what the muslim religion is about. And i honestly feel young soilders are taught to (even if not meant to) that we are fighting muslims... we aren't fighting muslims, we aren't fighting a religion.. and prone2rage you know that, but buffedguy is talking in general terms that you take offense to because you were above the level of the avg soilder. but buffedguy does not know that, nor could he understand that... but i feel you couldn't understand fully the pain he feels when he hears people down muslims just because of mis-leading believes about 9/11.. the fact is if the said they were doing it for Islam or not, Muslims did not attack the world trade center.. hijackers of a plane did..just because people hide behind a Islam, it does not mean they are Islam..

I honestly feel you two believe alot of the same things.. but your picking apart each others comments until it became a debate...

I think I skipped this before so I am sorry and want to thank buffedguy for writing this thread. I do believe a lot in what he says and want to thank you for your third party look at what we are talking about....It may sound like I am getting mad but that is not the case, my writing skill are lacking compaired to buffguy....and if we were to have a war of words I would have lost a long time ago...I have strong feeling and sometimes I like what I am reading in this thread then some point get to me and i have to put my two cents in. I was given my post name by others so I guess it show in other thing to include my words in this forum. After reading my responses this is not really the place to have posted them because people come to this thread to learn....

[Kale]

I think I skipped this before so I am sorry and want to thank buffedguy for writing this thread. I do believe a lot in what he says and want to thank you for your third party look at what we are talking about....It may sound like I am getting mad but that is not the case, my writing skill are lacking compaired to buffguy....and if we were to have a war of words I would have lost a long time ago...I have strong feeling and sometimes I like what I am reading in this thread then some point get to me and i have to put my two cents in. I was given my post name by others so I guess it show in other thing to include my words in this forum. After reading my responses this is not really the place to have posted them because people come to this thread to learn....

Not so !!! Your responses are prompting buffguy to justify his positions and I am all for that.

[*RAGE*]

Not so !!! Your responses are prompting buffguy to justify his positions and I am all for that.

thank you I will continue to give real life experience and see what he has to say...

[BuffedGuy]

This is not true I have had conducted several interview with terrorists and I explained before most of the terrorists or selfmade terrorists do this because they need money, some were retarted and I am not being mean, several of the terrorist we have interview have had family member kidnapped and forced into committing these crimes. So to me this blow that out of the water...

What you are talking about is the foot-soldiers. I'm not disagreeing with you that the terrorists would use such tactics to recruit people to do their bidding. The terrorist masterminds will use whatever they can to achieve their goals. But the question is: what causes them to hire people to do such things? We're not talking about the foot-soldiers. We're talking about Shredder and Krang, i.e. the bosses who order such things. They have clearly explained what causes them to wage war against the West.

It's very simple logic: if America didn't have such a foreign policy, the terrorist masterminds wouldn't have such a grudge against them that they would dedicate their lives to destroying America, and as a consequence, they wouldn't hire someone to do their bidding.

I have seen first hand that terrorist like Hamas using human shields.

How exactly have you seen this? You were stationed in Iraq, not Palestine.

I see the same thing in Gaza where Isreal being blamed for kill citizens in schools.

There is no point in debating with you. For you, Israel and America are always the good guys and the Muslims are the bad guys.

Hamas is hiding in the schools, hospitals, and ect. and conducting their attacks agains Isreal, so when they fight back and hit the schools

What you can't seem to understand is the fact that Hamas says the same thing when they launch rockets into Israel. They say that every Israeli citizen is a part of the Israeli military reserve force, and they are armed settlers who have guns and other military equipment.

Do you see what kind of imaginary world you live in where every single time YOU want to attack any building, you can justify it by claiming "oh there must have been rocket-launchers in that building." Maybe the Muslim extremists can claim that there were rocket-launchers inside the World Trade Center, and that's why they hit it. Anyone can claim anything and thereby insulate themselves from any blame. You are destroying international law with such games.

The Israeli and jingoist attitude is: "wherever my missile lands, there MUST be Hamas rocket-launchers there."

But we know that these are just lies and excuses, just like America invaded Iraq by claiming that there were WMDs there. What happened to that lie? Where are the WMDs? So this claim that Israel attacks hospitals because there are rocket-launchers in those hospitals is the same sort of lie. And even if there are rocket-launchers in a hospital, what kind of dirty people attack a hospital?

small children are killed dont get me wrong it is very sad (I see that poor child and all his body parts almost everyday

Please, this looks really fake when you say this.

but just like in Iraq the terrorists use there own people to include kids to commit their act.

And you do realize that the Iraqi people see you as an occupier and oppressor over them? It's not a much better position.

(I would like to take the time and say Isreal has enough fire power to wipe gaza off the map at anytime but they dont.

How kind of Israel! Instead they just create 8 million refugees.

If you want to wipe out a country you sit back and let the boomber take care of it, but that is not what Isreal is doing

You obviously haven't seen the news.

We could have and did win the war in the air and could have just kept kill from above, but that not what we did we sent in ground forces. Now why did we do that so we would not kill all of them.

If I come up to you and cripple your limbs, gouge your eyes, and cut your tongue off...then I say to you: "you should thank me that at least I did not kill you--see how generous I am!" Don't you think you would feel that this is absurd?

First, America starved Iraq with their crippling and inhumane sanctions that killed over half a million Iraqi children, according to the British Medical Society. And that was just from a few years...I don't have the updated number of deaths caused by American actions. When 2,000 people died in the World Trade Center, there was rage in the eyes of most Americans. Many of them--probably people like you--said "let's just bomb the hell out of them". This was the reaction over 2,000 deaths. Now imagine the deaths of HALF A MILLION CHILDREN, all thanks to America.

I will make this my last point tonight we went in and put a lot of damage in Iraq but now we are spending 11bill a month to rebuild this country

Oh thank you so much! The likeness of this is me crippling you and then saying "hey, I'll pay for your wheelchair; look how great I am!"

and we are paying contractors to teach and advise the rebuilding of the country so you can say what you want about what is going on over there but you do not have a clue..

I very much know this. And you probably don't have a clue how the contractors are vultures who flock to get contracts to benefit from the plight of the Iraqis. This was the idea wasn't it? Destroy the country and then get paid millions to rebuild it as America wishes? We read:

There are fortunes to be made in Iraq, where seemingly everything is broken or looted or blown up. The fortunes come from fixing those things; there is no shortage of cash to hire the fixers.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13185

Ok one more even though american are putting the money to make Iraq a better place they are still trying to kill us.

If you still can't understand why Iraqis will always hate you, then I'm afraid you are lost. You were part of a military force from a country that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, your military bombed the country to pieces, and your troops invaded the land and occupied it. Hmmm, I wonder why they hate you and why they are trying to kill you? If anyone has a reason to kill you, I think that would be it.

-Saladin.

[gst528i]

Is it true that when a muslim coverts a " non-beliver" via marriage than that person gets a special place in heaven. Kinda like the 72 virgin deal? only instead of war mean, reward for convertion?

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, GST528i.

In the Name of God, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.

Is it true that when a muslim coverts a " non-beliver" via marriage than that person gets a special place in heaven. Kinda like the 72 virgin deal? only instead of war mean, reward for convertion?

For any good deed that one does, there is a reward for it in Paradise, or an expiation for sins. As for helping someone convert to Islam, then there is a great reward in this, and this is called a sadiqa jariyya, which means it is considered a continuous and multiplying investment in someone's good deeds bank. The reason is because if a person converts to Islam due to your efforts (only with the Will of God), then his children might also be Muslim, and then their children might also be Muslim, and then their children, etc. So it is an ever-continuous multiplying reward. Each person that becomes Muslim due to your efforts is thus another good deed in your "bank".

As for a specific reward, I am not sure about that. Can't seem to think of any. But I'd have to check.

In regards to converting someone for the purpose of marriage, then this is a more complex issue. I've seen this happen several times, and each case was different. I've seen many cases in which the converted party turns even more religious than the born-Muslim. However, I've also seen 'token conversions' in which the person still holds onto his/her inner beliefs but simply professes to Islam in order to legalize the marriage. Such a conversion is invalid and from hypocrisy. The one who knowingly marries a person knowing that the person doesn't really believe in Islam but only 'converted' for marriage, then this marriage is invalid and it is nothing but fornication.

There is also another issue, which is that the general rule is that men should spread awareness about Islam to men, and women to women. Oftentimes, the gender segregation that Islam enjoins is not respected when these marriage conversions take place, which is problematic. However, at the end of the day, if a person converts to Islam sincerely--even if the born-Muslim was wrong to interact with a person of the opposite gender--then this is not the fault of the party that converts, and the latter (the party that converted) will be rewarded by God.

Hope that answers the question.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[gst528i]

So would you think muslims marry non muslims and try to get them to convert? I ask this because my ex- tried to get me to convert to marry her. I realize this was the perfect excuse for me since i dont wanna marry i simply said no. Even though i don;t believe in any religion or system other than believing that there is one almighty that doesn't favor one type of people over the other.
So since i said no i will not, i find out that she met some guy and is getting him to convert and marry him within a time period of 4-5 months of meeting him while she was with me for 2-3 years.

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, GST528i.

In the Name of God, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.

So would you think muslims marry non muslims and try to get them to convert?

Well, the examples I know of involved Muslims that were not very practicing so they would date Non-Muslims. Then they would be getting pressure from their parents to marry, so they suddenly had to try to convert their significant other, since their parents would not accept their marriage to a Non-Muslim, which would be a violation of Islamic Law (with the exception of women from the People of the Book for men).

I guess it's a case of applying some of the Islamic Laws, and not others. They violate the Islamic Law by dating Non-Muslims, and then later expect that person to convert to Islam. It's really inappropriate.

So since i said no i will not, i find out that she met some guy and is getting him to convert and marry him within a time period of 4-5 months of meeting him while she was with me for 2-3 years.

It seems that your ex did not learn the lesson. She should simply have repented to God, and then gotten marriage to a Muslim man without dating him first, and with the permission and guidance of her parents.

So to answer your question: I do not condone your ex's behavior. From an Islamic perspective, it is incorrect. An Islamic preacher (daiee) that I knew said that dating a woman to marry her is like robbing a bank and then donating the money to build a mosque.

Plus, just from a common sense standpoint, one should not get involved with another person thinking that the other person will change, or with the intention of changing that person. Marry a person for what they are now, not what image you think you might make them into later.

What I say is that a person should convert to Islam not for marriage purposes, but for salvation. By placing a Non-Muslim in such a position, i.e. convert or else I can't marry you, there is a high chance of muddling someone's intentions. That person might convert to Islam only to marry, instead of for attaining salvation for his soul. The Quran says "let there be no compulsion in religion", and this sort of falls under that.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[gst528i]

Peace be unto you, GST528i.

In the Name of God, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.



Well, the examples I know of involved Muslims that were not very practicing so they would date Non-Muslims. Then they would be getting pressure from their parents to marry, so they suddenly had to try to convert their significant other, since their parents would not accept their marriage to a Non-Muslim, which would be a violation of Islamic Law (with the exception of women from the People of the Book for men).

I guess it's a case of applying some of the Islamic Laws, and not others. They violate the Islamic Law by dating Non-Muslims, and then later expect that person to convert to Islam. It's really inappropriate.



It seems that your ex did not learn the lesson. She should simply have repented to God, and then gotten marriage to a Muslim man without dating him first, and with the permission and guidance of her parents.

So to answer your question: I do not condone your ex's behavior. From an Islamic perspective, it is incorrect. An Islamic preacher (daiee) that I knew said that dating a woman to marry her is like robbing a bank and then donating the money to build a mosque.

Plus, just from a common sense standpoint, one should not get involved with another person thinking that the other person will change, or with the intention of changing that person. Marry a person for what they are now, not what image you think you might make them into later.

What I say is that a person should convert to Islam not for marriage purposes, but for salvation. By placing a Non-Muslim in such a position, i.e. convert or else I can't marry you, there is a high chance of muddling someone's intentions. That person might convert to Islam only to marry, instead of for attaining salvation for his soul. The Quran says "let there be no compulsion in religion", and this sort of falls under that.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

That's my sentiment. That's is the reason i was unwilling to spend life with her, and am thanking god everyday that i didn;t make a stupid mistake.
Because if you think about it, anyone who would convert just to marry this girl ( She is extermely beautiful.) is not converting to islam for the correct reason.
Plus he has to have pretty weak beliefs to abandon them for the first girl he could get even if she was a 10/10.

[BuffedGuy]

That's my sentiment. That's is the reason i was unwilling to spend life with her, and am thanking god everyday that i didn;t make a stupid mistake.
Because if you think about it, anyone who would convert just to marry this girl ( She is extermely beautiful.) is not converting to islam for the correct reason.
Plus he has to have pretty weak beliefs to abandon them for the first girl he could get even if she was a 10/10.

I agree with you 100%. I think you made the right decision.

I feel for you: I've also had to abandon an extremely beautiful girl instead of compromising my beliefs. It's a very tough thing to do.

[BuffedGuy]

hey buffed arent u supposed to have chock full-o-virgins waitin for ya in the afterlife???

Pleasing God, The Most Merciful, and entering Paradise are the ultimate aim that believers should wish for. If a person departs this world having won the pleasure of God, then he will have the glad tidings of all that is good after that. When he enters Paradise he will have delights and pleasures such as no eye has seen, no ear has heard and such that has not even entered the mind or imagination of any man. He will have all that he wishes for in the best of ways.

Everything that he asks for will be granted, and everything that he longs for he will get. He will never find anything to upset or disturb him, because he is in the care of the Most Merciful, as God says:

“Therein you shall have all that your inner‑selves desire, and therein you shall have all that you ask. An entertainment from The Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Quran, 41:31-32)

One of the best things that people long for in the Hereafter is the maiden virgins of Paradise. The description of the maidens of Paradise is as such:

"There will be maidens with beautiful, large and lovely eyes--like preserved pearls. A reward for the deeds of their past life!" (Quran, 56:22-23)

Their eyes will be of the most beautiful of colors and they have no fault or blemish of any kind. The maidens will have no faults or blemishes of any kind; rather they are beautiful in all ways. Every time you gaze upon her, you see nothing but that which gladdens the heart.

God says:

"Therein are maidens--chaste, modest in their gaze, whom no man...has touched...as though they were rubies or pearls." (Quran, 55:56-58)

"Verily, We have created the damsels of paradise of a special variety, and made them as pure virgins--as lovers and friends." (Quran, 56:36-37)

Prophet Muhammad [s] described the beauty of the maidens of Paradise as such:

“If a woman from among the people of Paradise were to look out over the earth, she would illuminate everything that is in between them (the heavens and the earth).”

The maidens of Paradise are for whoever enters Paradise. Even the least person in rank (due to his deeds) will get two of them. However, I do not know what will happen to me after I die, so I can only pray for God's Mercy, that He chooses to admit me into Paradise.

You said:

make sure you put in your request to allah for some Viagra, im sure he has some handy cuz he can get all the virgins his lil heart desires I imagine!

As distasteful as I found the choice of your words, the fact is that one of the Prophet's disciples did ask the Prophet [s] how it would be that one man could have so many maidens, since the libido can only handle so much. Prophet Muhammad [s] told him: “He will be given the strength (i.e. libido) of one hundred men.” (Sunan at-Tirmidhi)

The fact that the believers will get beautiful (and pure) maidens in Paradise is not something that we Muslims should be bashful about or feel ashamed about. Some of our Christian cousins try to criticize our religion for this matter, but they obviously are not well-acquainted with their own Bible. It would become a matter of throwing stones from a glass house, which unfortunately is a very common occurrence with our Christian cousins.

In any case, in life, one of the greatest motivating factors for men is women, a fact that one can ascertain simply by glancing at this forum and seeing all the images of women being posted. Therefore, a Paradise without beautiful women would make it something undesirable. Paradise is something to strive for, and it causes a person to purify his actions, to eschew sins of all kinds, and to work deeds of righteousness. Furthermore, there is no sin in the matter, since the maidens of Paradise will be pure wives. They will live in the mansions and palaces prepared for the believers, and they (the beautiful maidens who are the wives of the believers) will not be seen by any other man other than their husband.

In any case, I see nothing to "refute" here. Islam is not prudish when it comes to sex. It simply demands that sex be conducted in a legal manner ("in holy matrimony"), shunning fornication, adultery, debauchery and open lewdness.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[BuffedGuy]

the honorable Elijah Mohammad and the venomus anti-semite Louis Farrakkan.

Elijah Poole (who adopted the alias "Elijah Muhammad") and Louis Farrakhan are considered by the orthodox Muslims to be disbelievers who have nothing to do with Islam. These two frauds--Elijah and Farrakhan--preached a racist doctrine, whereas Islam forbids racism altogether. Furthermore, Elijah and Farrakhan have/had even more blasphemous views which cast them out from the folds of Islam. Please read this post here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...&postcount=235

[D7M]

Some of our Christian cousins try to criticize our religion for this matter, but they obviously are not well-acquainted with their own Bible. It would become a matter of throwing stones from a glass house, which unfortunately is a very common occurrence with our Christian cousins.

Buffed, you know I'm not trying to criticize your religion at all.

But I'm curious about the above statement. How is the Christian criticism of this belief of yours like "throwing stones from a glass house" when Christianity teaches that in the after life there will be no marriage? (See Matt 22: 29)

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, Derek.

Buffed, you know I'm not trying to criticize your religion at all.

But I'm curious about the above statement. How is the Christian criticism of this belief of yours like "throwing stones from a glass house" when Christianity teaches that in the after life there will be no marriage? (See Matt 22: 29)

That is not what I meant. I mean to say that if a Christian were to criticize the Quran for "sensual imagery" such as "maidens with beautiful, large and lovely eyes"--then one could easily open up the Bible and see the equal of it or indeed even more.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.