Death wish diet?

[ACAZORES]

Have you guys ever heard about the "Death Wish Diet" by Dan Duchaine?
It goes something like this:
We have to eat a minimum of 600 grams of protein per day with only a maximum of 50grams of carbs per day and take insulin like 30 times per day::
What do u guys have to say about this?

[IBdmfkr]

Go for it.

[Big]

Sounds expensive and hard to follow.

[ACAZORES]

what type of insulin should with use with this diet?

[NotSmall]

Sounds expensive and hard to follow.

Well it's not that big of a deal since you would probably only be on it for one day...

[Gear]

-Gear

[BJJ ANDY]

LOL.

I can smell the NH3 to Sweden.

[IBdmfkr]

You do realize that carbohydrates are needed when taking insulin right?

So taking slin with each meal when your carb intake for the day is 50 would probably kill you.

Don't be foolish.

[jerseyboy]

Hence the name "death wish diet"

[fish77]

We did what we thought was death wish, and it was similar. The only difference, and why we are not dead, is the insulin was only day one. We used it to clear our body of carbs, just one shot. Only other time we used it, was if someone slipped and had carbs.

[ACAZORES]

So u guys are saying that u guys know more about diet and drugs more than Dan Duchaine.....??????

[ACAZORES]

If he designed this diet with slin is cause he knew what he was doing, and now u gauy say is bullshit..... u guys freak me out.

[Big]

I just did a search for "death wish diet" Dan Duchaine and the only match I found through a search engine was to this post, could it be called something else? Also found it a bit ironic that he's been dead for 7 years.

[Gear]

ACAZORES,

I will try and make this as short as possible, because I have a habbit of blabbling on without knowing how to stop. This subject is def one of those topics where I could go on forever and ever explaining why I think this diet is a bad idea.

So, here it goes...

First of all, as you already know, insulin is very diet dependant. Without your nutrients insulin won't do anything beneficial for you. The most important kind of nutrient when using insulin are carbohydrates. Without these type of nutrients, you can damage your body in all sorts of ways. Carbohydrates play a huge role PWO for recovery purposes. Not only are carbs good for recovery, but they will actually keep you from going into hypoglycemia when using insulin. Having said this, I canot think of any reasons why one would want to leave out carbs when using insulin. To me, that is plain out stupid and more so dangerous than anything else. So, why excatly leave out carbs is my first question?

Moving on...

Let's just say you left the carbs out and used protein only. Because your body digests protein at a slower rate, if you were to use insulin + protein only, you would have to use huge amounts of protein to stay out of hypo, and that's why in this thread you mentioned using 600g of protein per day. IMO, you would have to use more than 600g of protein per day if you are going to use 600g for the whole day + while insulin is active in your body. That's just my opinion anyway.

Moving on...

Now, you said insulin 30 times per day? Why so many times? Let's just say you are using Humalog. Out of those 30 doses, I am assuming one dose would be PWO considering that's when insulin is mostly beneficial. And once you have taken insulin PWO, you would not take it for the next 4hrs because insulins life time is about 4hrs post injection. So, this means you would be left with 8hrs and 29 doses to go (based on a 12hr day). So how would you take insulin 29 times in 8hrs? That's like a dose every 15min? This is the only way I could think of taking insulin 30 times per day. If you have another better way, please state it, I'd love to hear it.

Moving on...

Let's talk about doses. What is an effective dose when using insulin. Most will agree that taking 1IU or 2IU won't do much. As a matter of fact, you will find that the minimum effective dose would probably be 6 - 7IU. So, going back to taking insulin 29 times, how much would each dose be? I mean, surely it wouldn't be 1 or 2IU as that wouldn't do much IMO, but I am sure it wouldn't be the minimum effective dose either which is 6IU because 6IU times 29 times in a day is 174IU per day (and that's not including the PWO dose). So, you're telling me that you will take a 174IU per day with no carbs and 600g of protein? Do you know what would happen if someone did this? I don't need to say anything further. But let's move on and say you will take 1IU for every 29 of those doses. That's 30IU per day (not including the PWO dose which is usually 6 - 10IU). 30IU per day with no carbs is a NO NO once again.

Maybe I am having troubles understanding this way of using insulin, but I have typed out what I think. If there is anything that I miss understood or miss typed, please correct me.

Furthermore, I would like to know the following:

* What are the benefits from doing this?
* Why is it better than the regular protocol?
* Why insulin 30 times per day?
* How would you spread out the 30 doses in that one day?
* How much would each dose be?

Anyone else have any input? Please but in at any time.

-Gear

[Titleist]

Have you guys ever heard about the "Death Wish Diet" by Dan Duchaine?
It goes something like this:
We have to eat a minimum of 600 grams of protein per day with only a maximum of 50grams of carbs per day and take insulin like 30 times per day::
What do u guys have to say about this?

Well, at least he named it properly.

[IBdmfkr]

Agreed Gear, I just don't have the patience like you do to write out an entire post explaining the obvious

Some ppl just don't use their heads.

[Gear]

Agreed Gear, I just don't have the patience like you do to write out an entire post explaining the obvious

Some ppl just don't use their heads.

LOL, well yeah, sometimes it just needs to be done so people don't go injecting insulin 30 times per day lol. But I have a feeling my advice still won't be absorbed because the guy that come up with this theory in the first place "apparently" knows what he is doing. Explain that

-Gear

[Big]

Just for the f of it I've been searching and I haven't seen anywhere that Dan Duchaine advocated using insulin 30 times a day. I'm not saying it isn't out there, but I couldn't find it.

[PEWN]

thanks for posting that gear... atleast i learned alittle more about insulin because of this ... but as far as the diet goes... count me out of this one....

[goose]

Have you guys ever heard about the "Death Wish Diet" by Dan Duchaine?
It goes something like this:
We have to eat a minimum of 600 grams of protein per day with only a maximum of 50grams of carbs per day and take insulin like 30 times per day::
What do u guys have to say about this?

You muppet.Its a film not a diet.Its a fun flick,watch it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071402/

[Gear]

as far as the diet goes... count me out of this one....

If you are interested about insulin and diet side of things, send me a PM and I'll be more than glad to explain.

-Gear

[perfectbeast2001]

So u guys are saying that u guys know more about diet and drugs more than Dan Duchaine.....??????

The reason DD was so well known was due to his constant pushing the boundaries of drug use in sport. A lot of his stuff is OK in theory but very dangerous in practice. In other words Im quite sure the diet would help you shed fat but you may not stay alive long enough to find out.

[ACAZORES]

I was wrong i made a mistake its not 30 times per day but yes 3 times

[ACAZORES]

http://www.steroid.com/Insulin.php

you guys dont even know your forum steroid.com insulin profile, check this before u talk ...

[ACAZORES]

and was even called "Death Wish Dieting" by Dan Duchaine..

[Gear]

http://www.steroid.com/Insulin.php

you guys dont even know your forum steroid.com insulin profile, check this before u talk ...

Outdated information that needs to be updated. I have put in requests for this info to be changed, however, it has not been done as yet.

-Gear

[Gear]

I was wrong i made a mistake its not 30 times per day but yes 3 times

Glad you cleared that up.

Thank you.

-Gear

[ACAZORES]

Working with a number of top athletes to refine this program, we discovered that the best strategy was to consume 600 grams of protein from a combination of whey protein and casein, plus one solid meal that contained another 50 to 100 grams of protein, plus some fiber from green leafy vegetables. The remainder of the calories need to come from fats that have no, or at least very little, carbohydrate. This means no nuts…nuts have carbs.

Another thing that you need to remember is that you need to consume a ton of water on this program - somewhere between 1 and a half and 2 gallons every day in addition to the water you get from your protein drinks. Rather then break it up into a drink every 30 minutes to an hour, mix up a 2-quart container with 100 grams of protein and keep a checklist of how many times you empty it each day.

Another thing I’ve heard from the athletes that have used this regimen (aside from how much muscle they gained) was that they started to hate any protein drink they used, no matter how good it tasted when they started. My suggestion is to find the absolute blandest protein that you can possibly find…trust me, it will taste terrible at first, but after a few weeks of slugging it down day in and day out, it will taste less terrible than the tasty drink you used to think you liked.

[ACAZORES]

Days one through three: Carb depletion. You need to cut your carbs down to below 100 grams per day. I suggest taking them as low as 50 grams of carbs on day 3. You should also be increasing protein intake from your normal daily protein intake to 450 grams of protein per day.

Days four through 30: Protein needs to be at or above 600 grams per day. Carbs need to be held to less than 100 grams (50 is better) and you should use fats to make up the balance of your daily caloric requirements. As I said, I strongly recommend use of protein powders of mixed composition (Whey and Casein), though you can use some whole foods, too, if you wish. (Just keep in mind that 600 grams of protein from chicken breasts is about 24 chicken breasts a day!)

I recommend 2 insulin injections per day, depending upon when you train. One should be done during your workout, roughly 30 minutes before you’re finished training. The other should be taken either several hours before your workout (for those that train in the afternoon) or several hours after (if you train in the morning).

I suggest starting with a very small dose of insulin (4 IU’s) and gradually increasing it. (By the end of my program I was using 12 IU’s 3 times a day, but by this point I’m convinced that I was becoming somewhat insulin resistant).

It goes without saying that insulin should be injected subcutaneously (which shouldn’t be an issue unless you are also using GH or some other drug with an IV administration protocol. In this case, label stuff so you don’t screw up!)

I suggest that you discontinue the insulin and protein regimen within 26 days making it an even 30 for the entire cycle. If you have results even remotely approximating mine, you should have added 10 or more pounds of serious muscle!

[ACAZORES]

One night, Mike Zumpano and Dan Duchaine and I were sitting around having one of our philosophical discussions on the various idiosyncrasies of various anabolic pharmaceuticals. For some reason the talk turned to insulin. Horrified at the idea of having any fat on my body whatsoever (okay, maybe I’m small but I’m LEAN), I immediately said, no way! That stuff makes you FAT!

Mike was more philosophical. He suggested that the ideal way to use insulin would be to set up a bilateral IV drip of straight parenteral amino acids (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!!!) and after it had been running into your veins for a while, take a lethal injection of insulin…This, Mike said would get you huge. Dan suggested that if he were doing this, he’d give the guy the injection in a freckle so it wouldn’t show in case he died!

While I concurred that such might be the ideal strategy, I was hard pressed to agree that the risks were in alignment with the potential benefits. I tried to get the conversation to turn towards a less ludicrous topic. "Mike, I said, why does insulin make these guys so fat?

His response was that it wasn’t insulin, it was fear. This made zero sense to me, so I pressed him on it. He explained that most of the fat gain is caused by excess carbohydrate consumption during insulin use. The common dictum is that to use insulin safely, one must concurrently consume a minimum of 10 grams of carbohydrate for each IU of insulin used. Thus, for a bodybuilder using 8 IU’s of insulin 2 times a day, in addition to his normal intake of fat and protein and carbs, he would need to consume a minimum of 160 grams of extra carbohydrate to keep him from going into a hypoglycemic coma. You’d hardly expect that 160 extra grams of carbs, or 640 extra calories per day would make a significant difference to someone already eating 5000 or more calories per day. In most cases it wouldn’t, but that’s not what Mike felt was happening in the real world.

The thing is, most bodybuilders have a high degree of fear about going into insulin shock. So they have a tendency to be somewhat reactive to any change in mental state following an injection. This leads to a much more substantial intake of carbs than simply the 10 grams per IU.

Though this amount of additional carbohydrate does not seem terribly excessive, I was certain that it was the primary reason why insulin users gained a lot of size but also a disproportionate amount of fat. In discussing this with Mike Zumpano, several things occurred to us. First, what was the rationale behind this dosage of carbohydrate? Second, did consuming this amount of carbohydrate have a basis in human biochemistry? And third, was there a more elegant solution that would enable bodybuilders to use insulin safely for anabolic effect but avoid the excessive fat gains that have so far plagued users?

We both felt that there had to be a better way. Human plasma only contains about 5 grams of carbohydrate at any one time. Diabetics that have taken too much insulin can usually get their blood sugar levels back into normal range by consuming as little a five grams (only 20 calories!) of dextrose. IF that was the case, then how did we arrive at the 10-gram per IU rule?

[Gear]

I believe the insulin he is referring to is Humalin-R, even though it doesn't state that. But I am thinking it's probably Humalin-R if he is taking it 30min before he finishes training. He must have come up with this method a long time ago? It would be much easier to follow this protocol if you used a faster acting insulin such as Humalog.

As for 10LB of serious muscle. Well, I have never believed insulin brought much weight gains, if any at all actually, let alone 10LB of serious muscle. But that's just me, everyone is different I suppose.

I think this information is very old. It looks that way anyway.

-Gear

[Gear]

I don't know about anyone else, but IMO insulin is not the drug to take if you want to get "huge". It def has the potential of making you "huge" down the track, but nothing like AAS. Insulin will shuttle nutrients into cells which is great for recovery, but that's about it, it won't make you pack on the LB. If you want to gain weight, use AAS.

And as for the 10g of carbs for every 1IU of slin, that is not a fact. It is only a guideline which has helped many stay out of hypo while keeping their BG not too low and not too high.

-Gear

[ACAZORES]

i plan on doind this diet before xmas, I will post results....

[Gear]

i plan on doind this diet before xmas, I will post results....

Good stuff, let us know how you go.

-Gear

[ACAZORES]

I will do something like this, eat 50g of carbs in the morning for breakfast like oatmeal, and i will take 6 shakes per of 100g of protein mixed with 1000ml of water, that will come up to a 1.6 gallons of water per day, i will take a multi-vitamin with each shake, and i will inject humalog every 4 hours for a perid of 12 hours... looks good on paper!!!

[BJJ ANDY]

Acazores.

You are hardcore!

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

...and I hope you live long enough to post an update

[therecanonlybe1]

Have you guys ever heard about the "Death Wish Diet" by Dan Duchaine?
It goes something like this:
We have to eat a minimum of 600 grams of protein per day with only a maximum of 50grams of carbs per day and take insulin like 30 times per day::
What do u guys have to say about this?

does it come with a coffin?

[comradebillyboy]

Gear- really superior post
outstanding, clear, point by point fact based reasoning,easy to comprehend,
simply the best explanation of insulin and diet I have yet seen on any board or anywhere else. Excellent questions for reflection at the end. I am a science teacher (physics) and I am really impressed by your logical and very understandable presentation.

Let me add, if you look at my posts, I am not a cheerleader for the mods, but this post was exceptionally educational.

and ACAZORES, argument by appeal to authority is a major logical fallacy. Just because an authority figure (Duchane, in this case) makes a statement, the statement is not necessarily true just because the authority figure is an expert. Experts make lots of errors. I am am a big fan of opinions, hypotheses or theories that are supported by facts and real verifiable data.

ACAZORES,

I will try and make this as short as possible, because I have a habbit of blabbling on without knowing how to stop. This subject is def one of those topics where I could go on forever and ever explaining why I think this diet is a bad idea.

So, here it goes...

First of all, as you already know, insulin is very diet dependant. Without your nutrients insulin won't do anything beneficial for you. The most important kind of nutrient when using insulin are carbohydrates. Without these type of nutrients, you can damage your body in all sorts of ways. Carbohydrates play a huge role PWO for recovery purposes. Not only are carbs good for recovery, but they will actually keep you from going into hypoglycemia when using insulin. Having said this, I canot think of any reasons why one would want to leave out carbs when using insulin. To me, that is plain out stupid and more so dangerous than anything else. So, why excatly leave out carbs is my first question?

Moving on...

Let's just say you left the carbs out and used protein only. Because your body digests protein at a slower rate, if you were to use insulin + protein only, you would have to use huge amounts of protein to stay out of hypo, and that's why in this thread you mentioned using 600g of protein per day. IMO, you would have to use more than 600g of protein per day if you are going to use 600g for the whole day + while insulin is active in your body. That's just my opinion anyway.

Moving on...

Now, you said insulin 30 times per day? Why so many times? Let's just say you are using Humalog. Out of those 30 doses, I am assuming one dose would be PWO considering that's when insulin is mostly beneficial. And once you have taken insulin PWO, you would not take it for the next 4hrs because insulins life time is about 4hrs post injection. So, this means you would be left with 8hrs and 29 doses to go (based on a 12hr day). So how would you take insulin 29 times in 8hrs? That's like a dose every 15min? This is the only way I could think of taking insulin 30 times per day. If you have another better way, please state it, I'd love to hear it.

Moving on...

Let's talk about doses. What is an effective dose when using insulin. Most will agree that taking 1IU or 2IU won't do much. As a matter of fact, you will find that the minimum effective dose would probably be 6 - 7IU. So, going back to taking insulin 29 times, how much would each dose be? I mean, surely it wouldn't be 1 or 2IU as that wouldn't do much IMO, but I am sure it wouldn't be the minimum effective dose either which is 6IU because 6IU times 29 times in a day is 174IU per day (and that's not including the PWO dose). So, you're telling me that you will take a 174IU per day with no carbs and 600g of protein? Do you know what would happen if someone did this? I don't need to say anything further. But let's move on and say you will take 1IU for every 29 of those doses. That's 30IU per day (not including the PWO dose which is usually 6 - 10IU). 30IU per day with no carbs is a NO NO once again.

Maybe I am having troubles understanding this way of using insulin, but I have typed out what I think. If there is anything that I miss understood or miss typed, please correct me.

Furthermore, I would like to know the following:

* What are the benefits from doing this?
* Why is it better than the regular protocol?
* Why insulin 30 times per day?
* How would you spread out the 30 doses in that one day?
* How much would each dose be?

Anyone else have any input? Please but in at any time.

-Gear

[longhorn814]

Dan Deuchane treated himself as a lab rat..I wouldnt really be too keen on testing a lot of things he did...but hey its up to you...if youre gonna try that diet, i would suggest keeping someone around to monitor you at all times..it'll hard to post the results if your dead!