Day 5 and Im up 17lbs weight.

[BIGDOGIRISH]

On DBol at 40mg a day and Test but Im only on my fifth day.
Just back from gym where I sweated my ass off. Best pumps Iv ever got in arms and upper body-struggling to type this ha ha.
Anyway I'd be a lot heavier if Id weighed before the gym but right now Im up 17lbs from last Saturday when I started.

I know its gotta be mostly water weight but wow I feel like my whole body has a pump 24hrs a day.
Didnt expect these results that fast.

People have comented that something looks different about me today

[Seattle Junk]

On DBol at 40mg a day and Test but Im only on my fifth day.
Just back from gym where I sweated my ass off. Best pumps Iv ever got in arms and upper body-struggling to type this ha ha.
Anyway I'd be a lot heavier if Id weighed before the gym but right now Im up 17lbs from last Saturday when I started.

I know its gotta be mostly water weight but wow I feel like my whole body has a pump 24hrs a day.
Didnt expect these results that fast.

People have comented that something looks different about me today

Huge water weight gain. dbol is doing this. You don't want to gain weight that fast because you know it's mostly water and that also induces high bp. Check your diet and make sure you limit or eliminate sodium and high glycemic foods. I bet you are not eating too clean right now?

[Dizz28]

Huge water weight gain. dbol is doing this. You don't want to gain weight that fast because you know it's mostly water and that also induces high bp. Check your diet and make sure you limit or eliminate sodium and high glycemic foods. I bet you are not eating too clean right now?

x2

Good point about the BP. I couldn't imagine more than a lb or two of that 17lbs is muscle and that much water retention can spike your bp. Also, gaining weight that fast can be very stressful on your cardio/vas system.

Like SJ said, check your diet and sodium intake. You might want to also lower your Dbol dose to see if that helps. What test ester are you using and how much?

[BIGDOGIRISH]

Huge water weight gain. dbol is doing this. You don't want to gain weight that fast because you know it's mostly water and that also induces high bp. Check your diet and make sure you limit or eliminate sodium and high glycemic foods. I bet you are not eating too clean right now?

I know thats what I would think if I saw a thread like this.
BUT
Im taking Proviron 25mg
Iv completely cut sodium
Im basically eating....
Oatmeal
Whole grain bread
rice
chicken
fish
beef
peanut butter
pumkin seed
low fat milk
whey and casein
Weight gainer
eggs
potato
lasange
rice cakes
fat free yogurt
Heaps of fruit and veg
Vitamins, Glutamine, Arginine, om ega 3,6, Flax seed oil.


Is there anything else I can do to take down the water.
More cardio perhaps
or some foods you can suggest???

[BIGDOGIRISH]

Should also add Im drinking over 4litres of water on topof everything.
Im hitting 6000+ calories every day so far. Should I slow down a bit??

[rager]

Thats a ton of water though.

[RA]

I drink 1-2 gallons a day as most do on the board.

Thats a ton of water though.

[longhorn814]

4 liters is just over a gallon...wanna get the water weight down, take an AI such as arimidex

[BIGDOGIRISH]

I drink 1-2 gallons a day as most do on the board.

Yeah isnt it better to drink the water. Thought that would be flushing any sodium out resulting in less water weight retained.
Correct me if Im wrong?

[BIGDOGIRISH]

4 liters is just over a gallon...wanna get the water weight down, take an AI such as arimidex

25mg of Proviron not suffice???

[PT]

you must of been eating around 1500 calories a day before you started the gear then jumped up to 6000 the day you started in order to gain that much weight. i would actually be mad and worried if i gained that much that fast because you know its mostly water and i try to minimize my water weight so i dont look bloated plus i would be worried about my bp

[RA]

Your right on the water and if your not worried about the water weight dont bother taking anything more. Youll have better gains.

25mg of Proviron not suffice???

[BIGDOGIRISH]

you must of been eating around 1500 calories a day before you started the gear then jumped up to 6000 the day you started in order to gain that much weight. i would actually be mad and worried if i gained that much that fast because you know its mostly water and i try to minimize my water weight so i dont look bloated plus i would be worried about my bp

Shit im getting worried now.

Yeah my diet tended to be a bit abnormal before. I would usually eat anything and calories could be 1500 one day and 3000 the next.

Help guys!!!
What can I buy in supermarket that will get this down
and
Anything to help BP just in case.

Cheers

[redz]

I gained weight like that with 40mg ed of dbol... I was up 29lbs in like 3 weeks(stopped dbol after 4 weeks), but I got it under control. I`m up 19lbs now with no bloat in week 9(Tests E & Winstrol currently).

[Njord]

25mg of Proviron not suffice???

Where do people get the idea that proviron is an AI or even acts as one? I have always thought of proviron as a weak aas that will help free up test in your body therefore increasing overall available test.
Does it really have anti-estrogenic effects?

[kfrost06]

Where do people get the idea that proviron is an AI or even acts as one? I have always thought of proviron as a weak aas that will help free up test in your body therefore increasing overall available test.
Does it really have anti-estrogenic effects?

yes it does, like most DHTs it will inhibit aromatization of testosterone.

[kfrost06]

On DBol at 40mg a day and Test but Im only on my fifth day.
Just back from gym where I sweated my ass off. Best pumps Iv ever got in arms and upper body-struggling to type this ha ha.
Anyway I'd be a lot heavier if Id weighed before the gym but right now Im up 17lbs from last Saturday when I started.

I know its gotta be mostly water weight but wow I feel like my whole body has a pump 24hrs a day.
Didnt expect these results that fast.

People have comented that something looks different about me today

wow! 17lbs is amazing. The best I've done is 30lbs in 30 days and I had all the planets aligned for that to happen. But then again the guy in my avatar gained 12lbs from eating 1 cheeseburger

[Njord]

yes it does, like most DHTs it will inhibit aromatization of testosterone.

Guess I need to do some more research. I always thought Masteron was the only DHT with Anti-E properties.

How strong would you say the anti-e properties of DHT's are?

[kfrost06]

Guess I need to do some more research. I always thought Masteron was the only DHT with Anti-E properties.

How strong would you say the anti-e properties of DHT's are?

I don't know the Km off hand but they have a very high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme.

[longhorn814]

yes it does, like most DHTs it will inhibit aromatization of testosterone.

never used proviron, but masteron has some anti-estrogenic effects too

[BIGDOGIRISH]

Stats
27 years old
6,2"
Currently 210lbs (with my water i guess!!)

Cycle is
wk 1-13 466mg e/w test cyp
wk 1-4 40mg e/d DBol
wk 1-4 25mg e/d Proviron
and PCT of HCG, Nolva, Clomid (I know get an AI---NO!)

I want to know what you guys think of this seen as Im obviously taking hugh water...
Winstrol for wk 10-13. Will this harden up the water gain or am I off in that thinking
and
Clenbuterol and benadryl after my cycle to shed fat gained on cycle but remain anabolic.
When can I start Clen??? Same day as PCT or wait till after??

[kfrost06]

DHTs

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg...ment/3378s.pdf

Comparative Studies of Aromatase Inhibitors in Cultured Human Breast
Cancer Cells1

The presence of aromatase activity, estrogen receptors, and
estrogenic responsiveness in MCF-7 human breast cancer
cells has allowed this cell line to be used as a unique in vitro
system for investigating the biological activities of potentially
therapeutic aromatase inhibitors. We now report the results of
studies which have examined the cytotoxicity, antiaromatase,
and intrinsic estrogenic activities of aminoglutethimide, 1,2-
dehydrotestolactone (testolactone), dihydrotestosterone, 4-hydroxy-
4-androstene-3,17-dione, and 10-propargylestr-4-ene-
3,17-dione within MCF-7 monolayer cultures. Cell viability was
determined by trypan blue exclusion, and aromatase activity
was assessed by quantifying the amounts of [3H]estradiol
formed from [3H]testosterone. Estrogenic activity was assessed
by examining the ability of each inhibitor to increase cytoplasmic
progesterone receptor and deplete cytoplasmic estrogen
receptor concentrations in these cells during a 5-day incuba
tion period. Cytoplasmic progesterone and estrogen receptors
were measured by the single-saturating-dose technique using
[17a-metfjy/-3H]-17a,21 -dimethyl-19-norpregna-4,9-diene-
3,20-dione and [3H]estradiol as the labeled ligands for each
assay, respectively. The results showed that all of these com
pounds were noncytotoxic aromatase inhibitors in MCF-7 cells
but that these agents demonstrated marked differences in
inhibitory potency (10-propargylestr-4-ene-3,17-dione > 4-hydroxy-
4-androstene-3,17-dione :»dihydrotestosterone » tes
tolactone = aminoglutethimide). The incubation of cells with 4-
hydroxy-4-androstene-3,17-dione resulted in cytoplasmic pro
gesterone and estrogen receptor responses that were similar
in magnitude to those observed in other cultures incubated
with equimolar concentrations of estradici. None of the other
four agents demonstrated estrogenic activity in this system.
However, we have previously observed that dihydrotestoster
one has substantial antiestrogenic action in this system. Taken
together, these results indicate that some aromatase inhibitors
may influence the hormonal regulation of human breast cancer
cells by more than one mechanism.

[kfrost06]

Stats
27 years old
6,2"
Currently 210lbs (with my water i guess!!)

Cycle is
wk 1-13 466mg e/w test cyp
wk 1-4 40mg e/d DBol
wk 1-4 25mg e/d Proviron
and PCT of HCG, Nolva, Clomid (I know get an AI---NO!)

I want to know what you guys think of this seen as Im obviously taking hugh water...
Winstrol for wk 10-13. Will this harden up the water gain or am I off in that thinking
and
Clenbuterol and benadryl after my cycle to shed fat gained on cycle but remain anabolic.When can I start Clen??? Same day as PCT or wait till after??

At best thats debatable, clen does not show anabolic properties however(I think it was in mice) it showed anti-catabolic properties. I tried clen in my PCT once but didn't like it.

[longhorn814]

i dont understand why people want to take clen during PCT? Theres this myth that clen is anticatabolic, but that has never been shown in humans nor with any dose that we take..there are some studies, but they use really high doses on animals...during PCT you want to keep your calories high to hold onto your gains..with clen your goal is to burn fat but you need a caloric deficit to do that and thats not what you want during PCT..i would wait til after your PCT to use clen..just my .02

[BIGDOGIRISH]

At best thats debatable, clen does not show anabolic properties however(I think it was in mice) it showed anti-catabolic properties. I tried clen in my PCT once but didn't like it.

Hmmm Dam it. Thought it helped keep gains (suprisingly).
Will I lose more muscle taking it in PCT than taking it after PCT?

[BIGDOGIRISH]

Cheers Longhorn. Just saw ur response.
I got some good info in this thread.

What about the Winstrol?? Thinking of tabs but dont mind. How long should I run and what dose?

[Lexed]

you better watch out for stretch marks

[BIGDOGIRISH]

you better watch out for stretch marks

Yeah Im freaking out ha ha

[lmsays]

Why not just cut the dbol in half? That would be the easiest thing to do....instead of buying all these ai's or dht based steroids. Just use 20mg dbol per day and maybe increase the test 150mg more per week. I have no idea what ester you are using. Would be really ideal if you were using prop.

[RANA]

Should also add Im drinking over 4litres of water on topof everything.
Im hitting 6000+ calories every day so far. Should I slow down a bit??

that is a shit ton of calories...post your meals, don't just list what you are eating show us how much and at what time?

[Seattle Junk]

that is a shit ton of calories...post your meals, don't just list what you are eating show us how much and at what time?

Yeah, 6K cals ed for somebody starting at 193 is way too much. You are overeating then storing a lot of water. Yes, you can overeat good food as well. I am not a fan of garbage weight as I have learned my own lesson. Rome wasn't built in a day but AAS does build Rome on the fast track.

[BIGDOGIRISH]

that is a shit ton of calories...post your meals, don't just list what you are eating show us how much and at what time?

I know your probably thinking Im over estimating the calories but Im currently in college with very few classes in the week. I dont work right now and the gym is basically next door to me. Iv more than enough time to eat that food and can afford it.
My diet is different every day but just to give you an idea.

Morning 9.00

Shake
40g Protein
80g oatmeal
30g pumkin seeds
300ml low fat yogurt
Banana
Tomato
Carrot
Strawberries
Avacado
Orange juice and milk

Toasted whole grain bread
1 scrambled egg

Morning 11.00
500ml low fat milk
Breakfast sandwich-2sausage, 2 hash brown, 2 toast, 1 egg

Afternoon 1.00
350g Lasange
50g Peanuts
or
Hot chicken rool with lettuce and cheese (Maybe subway, 12" obviously)

Preworkout 4.00
500ml Creamed rice

Shake
50g protein
400ml low fat milk
60-80g Salmon
Banana

Post workout 6.30
N-Large2 Weight gainer
or
50g Protein & 80g Dextrose

Post Workout meal 7.30
Steak or chicken or beef and Potatoor Rice with veg

Snacks anytime in day
Peanut butter sandwhich
Ham and cheese sandwhich
Carmel rice cakes

Bed time shake 12.00
40g Protein
80g oatmeal
30g pumkin seeds
300ml low fat yogurt
Banana
Tomato
Carrot
Strawberries
Avacado
Orange juice and milk

Throughout day - 8 pints of blackcurrant water

Middle of night if I wake to piss
30g protein and 400ml low fat milk
or
7 protein bombs (14g) and glass of milk

When I woke this morning I weighed myself after use of toilet and before eating or drinking anything and I came in at 16lbs over starting weight.
Thats going to shaply rise by time of pre-workout

Is my diet screwed up? Im getting a little worried since starting this thread.
Thought it was cool but dont want High Blood Pressure or stretch marks.
But then again I did set out aiming to just explode is size.

[RANA]

I know your probably thinking Im over estimating the calories but Im currently in college with very few classes in the week. I dont work right now and the gym is basically next door to me. Iv more than enough time to eat that food and can afford it.
My diet is different every day but just to give you an idea.

Morning 9.00
Where to start? I am not trying to be a dick about this
Shake
40g Protein
80g oatmeal
30g pumkin seeds
300ml low fat yogurt
Banana
Tomato
Carrot
Strawberries
Avacado
Orange juice and milk

Toasted whole grain bread
1 scrambled egg
(Holly shit, that is a ton of food for one sitting, OJ has too much sugers, why milk too many fruits.)

Morning 11.00
500ml low fat milk
Breakfast sandwich-2sausage, 2 hash brown, 2 toast, 1 egg
(Sausage and hash brown, milk - very bad diet)

Afternoon 1.00
350g Lasange
50g Peanuts
or
Hot chicken rool with lettuce and cheese (Maybe subway, 12" obviously)
Not sure what chicken rool is, Lasange?

Preworkout 4.00
500ml Creamed rice (what is creamed rice?)

Shake
50g protein
400ml low fat milk
60-80g Salmon
Banana

Post workout 6.30
N-Large2 Weight gainer
or
50g Protein & 80g Dextrose

Post Workout meal 7.30
Steak or chicken or beef and Potatoor Rice with veg

Snacks anytime in day
Peanut butter sandwhich
Ham and cheese sandwhich
Carmel rice cakes

Bed time shake 12.00
40g Protein
80g oatmeal
30g pumkin seeds
300ml low fat yogurt
Banana
Tomato
Carrot
Strawberries
Avacado
Orange juice and milk

Throughout day - 8 pints of blackcurrant water

Middle of night if I wake to piss
30g protein and 400ml low fat milk
or
7 protein bombs (14g) and glass of milk

When I woke this morning I weighed myself after use of toilet and before eating or drinking anything and I came in at 16lbs over starting weight.
Thats going to shaply rise by time of pre-workout

Is my diet screwed up? Im getting a little worried since starting this thread.
Thought it was cool but dont want High Blood Pressure or stretch marks.
But then again I did set out aiming to just explode is size.

I put some things in red but I had to stop myself from writting more but I am sorry to say that diet is horrible. Way too much dairy, way too much fruit, you need lean meats and it looks like you carbs are 2-3 times what they should be. I can see why have gained 17 lbs.

[BIGDOGIRISH]

A bit gutted but I appreciate the advice. Please give me info back on this....

Whats wrong with dairy??? Im using low fat and its loads of Protein
Iv a funny metabolism so gaining fat isnt an issue. Not that Iv ever been able to gain fat anyway. Fat is welcome ha ha

Sausage and hash brown is whats available at college canteen at time of day. Its that or Fruit and cereal!

Rool should have been roll. As in 12" bread roll.

I hardly use 50ml of OJ - its to dilute the shake up.
Anyways my diet has 3 Insulin spikes in the day (morn, post workout and pre bed - whys that so bad? I am bulking

Whats wrong with to much fruit? Thought it was healthy? Keep the insides healthy?

Seen as you dont know what creamed rice is I googled it for you ha ha
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/food/ambrosi...-rice-pudding/
The stuff I use is low fat.

Im not a competition bodybuilder so is it really an awful diet for somebody wanting to bulk hugh?? I definately dont look fat right now. I look solid except a little bloated belly from all the food obviously and DBol I guess.
Honestly am I really making a mess of it or are you just a perfectionist? (not meant in a bad way)

Dam my diet has come a long way from what it once was (Crisps, McDonalds Chinese, Beer and frozen dinners-well some of the time lol). Didnt get fat on that diet either!

[samcam]

It's not the best diet in the world but you must have one incredible fast metabolism! You say you put on 16lbs. and are 210lbs.? That means when you started you were around 195 on 6000 calories a day? That is a shit load of calories for 195lbs.! I would maybe cut out some of the fruit and you say you look fine, so just monitor your BP, HR, endurance, etc. and see were it goes from here, I think if you continue on the diet you're on you will end up getting fat, but only you can be the judge of that and it all depends on what your goals are.

[Princes_Gate]

nothing wrong with dairy bro, some people can handle it, some cant.

i drink nearly a gallon of skim a day

[longhorn814]

dude cut back on your cals some..by eating that much youre gonna pack on a bunch of fat too..a lot of that stuff in your diet is the best for building muscle..sure it'll add weight, but the wrong kind

[legobricks]

Im partial to dairy myself.

[BIGDOGIRISH]

Yeah 193 was my weight before first jab last Saturday.
Even at that Id put on 15lbs over the past few months in preparation for this cycle.
This 6,000 calories a day is a big jump - Im only eating like this cause its my first cycle and I want to get the most benefit from it that I can.
Iv always been a hard gainer and self conscious about being really skinny.
Well I think Im over the skinny mark now!!!

Ok so you guys saying cut fruit and carbs....
I'll change the pre bed shake to just protein and milk instead of the oats and fruit and all.
Swap the lasange for Chicken wraps or something.

Is there any other one thing you'd all say REMOVE from the diet??

Im gonna have to take a weekly photo and I'll throw them on here next week.
Because I dont think theres a problem with the weight Im putting on, other than you guys saying high BP and stretch marks. I think I look excellent-you'll all probably think im fat lol

[legobricks]

Yeah 193 was my weight before first jab last Saturday.
Even at that Id put on 15lbs over the past few months in preparation for this cycle.
This 6,000 calories a day is a big jump - Im only eating like this cause its my first cycle and I want to get the most benefit from it that I can.
Iv always been a hard gainer and self conscious about being really skinny.
Well I think Im over the skinny mark now!!!

Ok so you guys saying cut fruit and carbs....
I'll change the pre bed shake to just protein and milk instead of the oats and fruit and all.
Swap the lasange for Chicken wraps or something.

Is there any other one thing you'd all say REMOVE from the diet??

Im gonna have to take a weekly photo and I'll throw them on here next week.
Because I dont think theres a problem with the weight Im putting on, other than you guys saying high BP and stretch marks. I think I look excellent-you'll all probably think im fat lol

Ok listen up Fatty, compare your diet with some bulking diets in the diet forum. Personally for bulking, id go for a lot of red meats instead of meals like lasagna and wraps and stuff. Only time I usally eat those meals is on cheat day OR if I didnt have time to cook up a meal for work. You have a lot of room during bulking as you are doing just that, bulking. Granted you will gain fat weight but hey, if it works for you then great! Just monitor your BP and look for stretch marks. I have the same mindset as you with being skinny and all. I could be 250lbs at 5'8" and still think im skinny. Oh, and I love dairy...I was born and raised in good ole' Wisconsin so thats why im partial to it.