Picking the first cycle.

[SunDownPoint]

As with all the other new guys here that need help, I'd like people opinions as my case is a little different.

I work as a male dancer, and my problem is that most of the other dancers take AAS, and it kinda puts them in a league apart. They are all built, and very cut and defined, with big vascularity. I am in great shape, but I just can't help thinking that if I could get as cut as them, I would make more money.

Now please don't start telling me to get on a diet or whatever, I only have 5-6% bodyfat, have a very lean diet, and work out hard. I just think I am at the limit of my natural definition.

So in my opinion I would like to cycle winny to give me the boost I need (after all it's physical appearance that runs the buisness). But the problem is that winny need to be pinned every second day, and since I need to get completely naked (where I live it's everything!) I can't have big red insertion sites on my body.

So? My question is, is Winny Tabs a good choice, or is there a better alternative? And would winny have a much better effect than supplements, so that I could stop them, or should i stick with them also.




Thanks for your time guys, and since I'm new people will probably ask me for my stats, so here they are:

6"1
210 lbs
5-6% bf
6 years body building.
Read all the gyno articles, and preparation guides.

[Hunter-S-Thompson]

winny will shut down your natty test, its not a good idea to run it w/out test, whether it is injection or oral.

[D7M]

^right.

and, you must not have read *all* the stickies or you'd know that winny should be taken ED.

[SunDownPoint]

So what test would you suggest for the first cycle, with winny?

[SunDownPoint]

^right.

and, you must not have read *all* the stickies or you'd know that winny should be taken ED.

I have read about the steroids in general, not about winny specifically other than the fact that it's purpose is for cutting. That IS why I am asking the question.

[SunDownPoint]

Is a Tren/Winny cycle for a first time a good choice? I am looking for mostly definition, vascularity, and small muscle gains - and do not want to get into highly toxic steroids, I don't need to gain 50 lbs or muscle here.

[gordongecko74]

50 lbs of muscle would be rather impressive! gotta run test all other compounds u mentioned are suppresive to natty test as hunter said. tren from what i understand is the roughest of em all especially for first time around. my advice to u is the same i got test only in the beginning.

[fresh31]

test e or cyp since you don't want to pin often, and oral winny.
what do you know about pct?
also how old are you

[Matt]

Test e is a good starter, im one of those that doesnt like to many injections....

[Jfew44]

As with all the other new guys here that need help, I'd like people opinions as my case is a little different.

I work as a male dancer, and my problem is that most of the other dancers take AAS, and it kinda puts them in a league apart. They are all built, and very cut and defined, with big vascularity. I am in great shape, but I just can't help thinking that if I could get as cut as them, I would make more money.

Now please don't start telling me to get on a diet or whatever, I only have 5-6% bodyfat, have a very lean diet, and work out hard. I just think I am at the limit of my natural definition.

So in my opinion I would like to cycle winny to give me the boost I need (after all it's physical appearance that runs the buisness). But the problem is that winny need to be pinned every second day, and since I need to get completely naked (where I live it's everything!) I can't have big red insertion sites on my body.

So? My question is, is Winny Tabs a good choice, or is there a better alternative? And would winny have a much better effect than supplements, so that I could stop them, or should i stick with them also.




Thanks for your time guys, and since I'm new people will probably ask me for my stats, so here they are:

6"1
210 lbs
5-6% bf
6 years body building.
Read all the gyno articles, and preparation guides.

Something doesn't add up here. You're saying the other dancers are all sub 5% bodyfat?

[Hunter-S-Thompson]

if you were 5/6% BF i doubt youd be worried to much about getting "more" cut up, also, youd already most likely have veins popping out all over your body... what is it that is giving you the impression that your that low in BF?

[Matt]

Picture would help....

[laduem88]

5-6 is crazy low...at 10% you should have all 6 abs without flexing

[SunDownPoint]

I am very low in fat, but the other dancers have more definition in terms that they have barely any water weight, where asI have alot, and yes their veins pop out much more than mine do to steroids. It must also help that their skin is tighter due to their muscle increase. They have that "dry" look that you get on winny.

Why does it seem I'm getting analyzed more than getting helped? Do I really have to post a picture of myself to show I'm probably in better shape than alot of people on here that take aas?

[WARMachine]

I am very low in fat, but the other dancers have more definition in terms that they have barely any water weight, where asI have alot, and yes their veins pop out much more than mine do to steroids. It must also help that their skin is tighter due to their muscle increase. They have that "dry" look that you get on winny.

Why does it seem I'm getting analyzed more than getting helped? Do I really have to post a picture of myself to show I'm probably in better shape than alot of people on here that take aas?

210lbs at 5% BF is a bold statement. You cannot blame people for being skeptical. Especially at that % BF, there isnt much left to cut. I mean what kinda definition do you want?!


Post the pic. Give a couple of poses. bicep flex, abs relaxed, and abs tightened.

[SunDownPoint]

Well I'm taking a guess that I'm 210, and I would be able to lose not more than 10-12 lbs of fat max. I do have alot of water retention, which is what hurts my definition. And I know the difference between fat and water weight, I have what you call "thick skin".

[fresh31]

you asked for help for a reason, because the guys here know more then you. therefore just supply what they ask of is it really that big a deal? if you're 5% bf just post some pics up and move on from there

[WARMachine]

Well I'm taking a guess that I'm 210, and I would be able to lose not more than 10-12 lbs of fat max. I do have alot of water retention, which is what hurts my definition. And I know the difference between fat and water weight, I have what you call "thick skin".

So if youre 5% currently, that would put you at 1% BF?

[SunDownPoint]

So if youre 5% currently, that would put you at 1% BF?

Well if I got rid of the last 10-12 lbs that would put me a 0%? Seems logical, unless water weight is included in that, or some kind of calculation, I thought it was pretty straight up.

[lord henry]

So if youre 5% currently, that would put you at 1% BF?

yup this guy is no were near 5% ,i mean he says he as alot of warter retension at 5% 200 ish lbs one would be dry as hell.

test e for 12 weeks with an a.i too keep bloat away ,nice clean det and a god pct and you will have nice gains.

[WARMachine]

Well if I got rid of the last 10-12 lbs that would put me a 0%? Seems logical, unless water weight is included in that, or some kind of calculation, I thought it was pretty straight up.

Except youll die before you hit 2%.

Dude, not trying to offend you or anything, but you have no clue what youre talking about.

You need to do some research.

[lord henry]

if you would post a pic up we could tell yu the best way too go about things.

post that pic.

[fresh31]

how did you calculate your bf?

[SunDownPoint]

Except youll die before you hit 2%.

Dude, not trying to offend you or anything, but you have no clue what youre talking about.

You need to do some research.

Yes but I never said it would be possible to get to 0%, I'm just saying there not much I can lose, and that what hinders my definition is water retention. I will try to post a picture tonight.

But this still isn't helping me, this is just me having to show the "experts" if I'm cut or not, when I'm on this forum for a plan on getting cut, because a diet and exercize doesn't give as intense a look as steroids do. I'm in shape but put me next to a guy who is on steroids, and no shit he will have more definition?

[Matt]

Waiting for picture??

[Hunter-S-Thompson]

a proper diet with no steroids can give you all the definition you can dream of, you dont need steroids for definition, you need a well planned out diet and training routine

[jamyjamjr]

As with all the other new guys here that need help, I'd like people opinions as my case is a little different.

I work as a male dancer, and my problem is that most of the other dancers take AAS, and it kinda puts them in a league apart. They are all built, and very cut and defined, with big vascularity. I am in great shape, but I just can't help thinking that if I could get as cut as them, I would make more money.

Now please don't start telling me to get on a diet or whatever, I only have 5-6% bodyfat, have a very lean diet, and work out hard. I just think I am at the limit of my natural definition.

So in my opinion I would like to cycle winny to give me the boost I need (after all it's physical appearance that runs the buisness). But the problem is that winny need to be pinned every second day, and since I need to get completely naked (where I live it's everything!) I can't have big red insertion sites on my body.

So? My question is, is Winny Tabs a good choice, or is there a better alternative? And would winny have a much better effect than supplements, so that I could stop them, or should i stick with them also.




Thanks for your time guys, and since I'm new people will probably ask me for my stats, so here they are:

6"1
210 lbs
5-6% bf6 years body building.
Read all the gyno articles, and preparation guides.

if those stats are true (which i question since u tell me u cant see your abs as well) then your doing something right.. but i dont believe you've plateued.. i think if you eat more of the right calories you'll get bigger..

but what do i know..
im just the diet guy..

[SunDownPoint]

this was 2 months ago, I'm a bit leaner since then, and I was not flexing, but you should get the point.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6710/20150873.jpg

[jamyjamjr]

i'd put u at 12% maybe a little under

[lord henry]

just to answer his question -yes you can use winny alone ,go with oral winstrol at 50mgs every day for 6 weeks ,liv52 for liver protection while on and nolva/clomid pct.

winstrol will harden you up for sure and give the dry look but you may have some problems while useing it-

loss of sex drive

hair loss (dht,s are harsh for some on the hair line)

sore dry joints

i have run winny at 100mgs every day on its own ,i had good results and minium sides but everyone is diff,dont expect huge weight gains on winny (6-11lbs max imo).

[fresh31]

can't really tell from that pic but from what i can see you're def not 5%

[SunDownPoint]

yup this guy is no were near 5% ,i mean he says he as alot of warter retension at 5% 200 ish lbs one would be dry as hell.

test e for 12 weeks with an a.i too keep bloat away ,nice clean det and a god pct and you will have nice gains.

Thank you for giving me the closest thing to help I've had since starting this thread.

[WARMachine]

12% BF. Not even close to 5%.

If you were 5%, you would clearly see abs with no flexing

[jamyjamjr]

just to answer his question -yes you can use winny alone ,go with oral winstrol at 50mgs every day for 6 weeks ,liv52 for liver protection while on and nolva/clomid pct.

winstrol will harden you up for sure and give the dry look but you may have some problems while useing it-

loss of sex drive

hair loss (dht,s are harsh for some on the hair line)

sore dry joints

i have run winny at 100mgs every day on its own ,i had good results and minium sides but everyone is diff,dont expect huge weight gains on winny (6-11lbs max imo).

i do not agree with this philosophy....

[WARMachine]

Thank you for giving me the closest thing to help I've had since starting this thread.

Well if you just wouldve posted that picture 20posts ago, we couldve gotten past this point.

Lord Henry just gave you some more advice. Bad advice. But advice nontheless.

[lord henry]

i do not agree with this philosophy....

and why is that? have you used winny alone ? have you every used winny ? i a giveing him an answer based on my personal experence with winny.

[SunDownPoint]

12% BF. Not even close to 5%.

If you were 5%, you would clearly see abs with no flexing

It's water, do you want me to take a picture of my pinching my skin for you to understand? And my abs are the least defined, let me show you a picture of my legs.

You think everyone is made the same and because I have stuborn water weight on my stomach that I have 12% bf when you havn't even seen my body?

[jamyjamjr]

and why is that? have you used winny alone ? have you every used winny ? i a giveing him an answer based on my personal experence with winny.

i didn't say what you said wasn't true... uv got the info down right..

i just dont think u should run winny without test...

dont get me twisted bro.. didn't say you were giving out the wrong info

[jamyjamjr]

It's water, do you want me to take a picture of my pinching my skin for you to understand? And my abs are the least defined, let me show you a picture of my legs.

You think everyone is made the same and because I have stuborn water weight on my stomach that I have 12% bf when you havn't even seen my body?

seems ur rationalizing bro...

u have no idea what "water weight" is untill uv cycled without a proper ai...

try having an extra 10-15lbs of water in your system and then talk..

im telling u we can fix ur little problem.. u just need to snap outta your denial

[lord henry]

i didn't say what you said wasn't true... uv got the info down right..

i just dont think u should run winny without test...

dont get me twisted bro.. didn't say you were giving out the wrong info

my bad bud .

yer i agree test should be the base of any cycle but i have seen many use winny only and have o probs at all ,am ot promoeing winny only in anyway just giveing him advise based on what i hav seen.