Cycles plans for 2010

[liftw8t]

Okay first off stats:
23yrs
5'10"
190lbs (trying to hit 200lbs before start of cycle)
Goal: is to bulk all year really trying to reach solid 220 by next January (2011) so I can compete. A buddy and I will be running around same time and similar cycles due to fact we have similar builds, this will be his first and my first was 400mg test e x 10 wks

-250mg Sust E3D x 8-10 wks. some weeks will get 500mg and some will get 750mg
-40mg Tbol ED x 4 wks (plan to split into 2 doses throughout the day)
-Letro or Adex at .25mg EOD throughout cycle
-HCG 3-10 wk 500iu E5D
PCT:
-Clomid 50mg x 3 wk
-Nolva 40mg x 1-2 and 20mg 3-4wks
*Plan to start cycle this Feb 15th 2010

Now my proposed second cycle which will be ran probably in fall of 2010 after much time off and bloodwork. On my first cycle I stopped growing pretty much around week 8 so i stopped at weeks 10 oppossed to going 12 like originally planned.

2nd Cycle Fall: (still bulking but trying to do an effective short bulk cycle)
-235mg Sust EOD x 6 weeks (avg 705-940mg per week, will very because of shot rotation)
-50mg NPP EOD x 6 weeks
Anadrol it will be 50mg for first 2 weeks then up to 100mg last 2 weeks.
-HCG 250iu EOD x 2-7 wk
-Adex .25mg ED throughout cycle

PCT:
Clomid 50mg x 2 wks
Nolva 40mg 1-2 and 20mg 2-4wks

Feedback if possible, Thanks

[Sheven]

cycle looks good. if you are not that prone to gyno go with adex instead of letro.

[liftw8t]

cycle looks good. if you are not that prone to gyno go with adex instead of letro.

yeah i am prone havent got any yet but not trying to risk it

[Vitruvian-Man]

Okay first off stats:
23yrs
5'10"
190lbs (trying to hit 200lbs before start of cycle)
Goal: is to bulk all year really trying to reach solid 220 by next January (2011) so I can compete. A buddy and I will be running around same time and similar cycles due to fact we have similar builds, this will be his first and my first was 400mg test e x 10 wks

-250mg Sust E3D x 8-10 wks. some weeks will get 500mg and some will get 750mg DON'T ALTER DOSAGE. KEEP IT THE SAME THROUGHOUT CYCLE. AND RUN THE SUST FOR 10 WEEKS. I PREFER 12 W/ SUST. (IE) WEEKS 1 - 12 @ 600MG.

-40mg Tbol ED x 4 wks (plan to split into 2 doses throughout the day)
I WOULD INCREASE THE T-BOL DOSAGE TO 60MG, AND RUN IT FOR 6 WEEKS. T-BOL WORKS VERY SLOWLY; 4 WEEKS JUST DOESN'T CUT IT IMO...

-Letro or Adex at .25mg EOD throughout cycle
GO W/ A-DEX. GOOD DOSAGE.
-HCG 3-10 wk 500iu E5D
PCT:
-Clomid 50mg x 3 wk
-Nolva 40mg x 1-2 and 20mg 3-4wks
*Plan to start cycle this Feb 15th 2010

Now my proposed second cycle which will be ran probably in fall of 2010 after much time off and bloodwork. On my first cycle I stopped growing pretty much around week 8 so i stopped at weeks 10 oppossed to going 12 like originally planned.

2nd Cycle Fall: (still bulking but trying to do an effective short bulk cycle)
-235mg Sust EOD x 6 weeks (avg 705-940mg per week, will very because of shot rotation)
6 WEEKS ISN'T ENOUGH TIME FOR SUST IMO. THERE ARE TOO MANY LONG ESTERS IN THE COMPOUND. JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE INJECTING EOD DOES NOT MEAN THE ESTERS MAGICALLY KICK IN FASTER. EITHER USE PROP... OR USE SUST, BUT EXTEND THE CYCLE.
-50mg NPP EOD x 6 weeks
YOU MAY WANT TO READ MY THREAD ON NPP. 50MG EOD = ~150 - 200MG EW. THAT'S BASICALLY A THERAPEUTIC DOSAGE (WILL JUST LUBRICATE YOUR JOINTS W/ LITTLE MUSCLE GAINS.) IT SHOULD BE SHOT 100MG EOD AT LEAST IMO...
Anadrol it will be 50mg for first 2 weeks then up to 100mg last 2 weeks.
THAT'S FINE.
-HCG 250iu EOD x 2-7 wk
-Adex .25mg ED throughout cycle

PCT:
Clomid 50mg x 2 wks
Nolva 40mg 1-2 and 20mg 2-4wks

Feedback if possible, Thanks

Advice in BOLD.

Happy Holidays.

[liftw8t]

Advice in BOLD.

Happy Holidays.

thanks man, yeah I was going to pin sust E3D so thats why it varys but not really within a 7 day time period it will be 3 shot pretty much so it will look like 750 unless i drop down dose each shot, is this recommended? Tbol no sweat for upping it not to worried about it cus it doesnt aromatize, and yeah i think if i extend sust first cycle i was only really running it second due to the fact i would have some left over from first cycle but i can extend my first i just know i stopped growing after 8 weeks when i ran test e 400mg EW. But not appossed to doing Prop and NPP, and upping NPP not to worried about that either no sweat there. Also i have heard that I should wait 18 days with sust before starting PCT is that true or is 14 good enough?

[Sheven]

thanks man, yeah I was going to pin sust E3D so thats why it varys but not really within a 7 day time period it will be 3 shot pretty much so it will look like 750 unless i drop down dose each shot, is this recommended? Tbol no sweat for upping it not to worried about it cus it doesnt aromatize, and yeah i think if i extend sust first cycle i was only really running it second due to the fact i would have some left over from first cycle but i can extend my first i just know i stopped growing after 8 weeks when i ran test e 400mg EW. But not appossed to doing Prop and NPP, and upping NPP not to worried about that either no sweat there. Also i have heard that I should wait 18 days with sust before starting PCT is that true or is 14 good enough?

don't consider those half-life exact, they are rather approximations. after sust 250 i wait about 15 days and hit the pct.

even if a lot of people say to hit the same sust mg's from start i am skeptical about this and i always suggest to go lighter at start especially since you are rather new to gear...

[Vitruvian-Man]

thanks man, yeah I was going to pin sust E3D so thats why it varys but not really within a 7 day time period it will be 3 shot pretty much so it will look like 750 unless i drop down dose each shot, is this recommended? Tbol no sweat for upping it not to worried about it cus it doesnt aromatize, and yeah i think if i extend sust first cycle i was only really running it second due to the fact i would have some left over from first cycle but i can extend my first i just know i stopped growing after 8 weeks when i ran test e 400mg EW. But not appossed to doing Prop and NPP, and upping NPP not to worried about that either no sweat there. Also i have heard that I should wait 18 days with sust before starting PCT is that true or is 14 good enough?

750mg is fine. It's a tad high for a 2nd cycle, but acceptable. I would just pin 1.5mL (375mg every 3.5 days) but your protocol is fine. If you stopped growing after week 8 then maybe only run the sust for 10 weeks. Your call... steroids are an individual thing.. you got to see how your own body reacts, and then gauge your cycles around that.

T-bol is a great oral. It's just really slow, and takes a pretty high dosage to get the desired results IMO. I find success w/ that compound when I run it for 8 weeks @ 80mg (sweet-spot). But 60mg should suffice for a first run w/ it. You can always bump dosage up if necessary.

If you've got some left over sust from your first cycle you could always use it at the beginning of your next cycle...

Sust (weeks 1 - 3) @ 125mg E3D
Prop (Weeks 1 - 7) @ 150mg EOD
NPP (weeks 1 - 6) @ 100mg EOD

^^ This cycle isn't 'ideal' for blood-levels, because the test dosage is a little wonky, but it's still alright. lol. I would probs run the prop for an extra week past the NPP just for good measure BTW

Regarding PCT timing... for sust it should begin 18 days after the last shot. This is because PCT should ideally start when all suppressive compounds have cleared the body. However, many people feel 14 days is enough for sust. It's your call, IMO it won't make much of a difference..

[liftw8t]

So your saying the E3D doses are to much?

[Vitruvian-Man]

So your saying the E3D doses are to much?

No. That's absolutely fine..

[liftw8t]

750mg is fine. It's a tad high for a 2nd cycle, but acceptable. I would just pin 1.5mL (375mg every 3.5 days) but your protocol is fine. If you stopped growing after week 8 then maybe only run the sust for 10 weeks. Your call... steroids are an individual thing.. you got to see how your own body reacts, and then gauge your cycles around that.

T-bol is a great oral. It's just really slow, and takes a pretty high dosage to get the desired results IMO. I find success w/ that compound when I run it for 8 weeks @ 80mg (sweet-spot). But 60mg should suffice for a first run w/ it. You can always bump dosage up if necessary.

If you've got some left over sust from your first cycle you could always use it at the beginning of your next cycle...

Sust (weeks 1 - 3) @ 125mg E3D
Prop (Weeks 1 - 7) @ 150mg EOD
NPP (weeks 1 - 6) @ 100mg EOD

^^ This cycle isn't 'ideal' for blood-levels, because the test dosage is a little wonky, but it's still alright. lol. I would probs run the prop for an extra week past the NPP just for good measure BTW

Regarding PCT timing... for sust it should begin 18 days after the last shot. This is because PCT should ideally start when all suppressive compounds have cleared the body. However, many people feel 14 days is enough for sust. It's your call, IMO it won't make much of a difference..

Oh okay i mean i can drop down if need be just really trying to go for longevity so i need the minimal to get big.

[liftw8t]

Would it be to much to run sust and prop because prop EOD @150 will come to 600mg of test a week, would adding the sust in for first 4 weeks be too much test each week to take in? because i'm looking at lowering prop maybe 100 or 50

[TITANIUM]

Okay first off stats:
23yrs
5'10"
190lbs (trying to hit 200lbs before start of cycle)
Goal: is to bulk all year really trying to reach solid 220 by next January (2011) so I can compete. A buddy and I will be running around same time and similar cycles due to fact we have similar builds, this will be his first and my first was 400mg test e x 10 wks

-250mg Sust E3D x 8-10 wks. some weeks will get 500mg and some will get 750mg
-40mg Tbol ED x 4 wks (plan to split into 2 doses throughout the day)
-Letro or Adex at .25mg EOD throughout cycle
-HCG 3-10 wk 500iu E5D
PCT:
-Clomid 50mg x 3 wk
-Nolva 40mg x 1-2 and 20mg 3-4wks
*Plan to start cycle this Feb 15th 2010

Now my proposed second cycle which will be ran probably in fall of 2010 after much time off and bloodwork. On my first cycle I stopped growing pretty much around week 8 so i stopped at weeks 10 oppossed to going 12 like originally planned.

2nd Cycle Fall: (still bulking but trying to do an effective short bulk cycle)
-235mg Sust EOD x 6 weeks (avg 705-940mg per week, will very because of shot rotation)
-50mg NPP EOD x 6 weeks
Anadrol it will be 50mg for first 2 weeks then up to 100mg last 2 weeks.
-HCG 250iu EOD x 2-7 wk
-Adex .25mg ED throughout cycle

PCT:
Clomid 50mg x 2 wks =4 wks @100/50/50/50
Nolva 40mg 1-2 and 20mg 2-4wks = 4 wks @ 40/20/20/20

Feedback if possible, Thanks

Best

T

[Aizen Sosuke]

Would it be to much to run sust and prop because prop EOD @150 will come to 600mg of test a week, would adding the sust in for first 4 weeks be too much test each week to take in? because i'm looking at lowering prop maybe 100 or 50

I would do just the propionate for 8 weeks at 150mg/EOD and npp for 7 weeks at 100mg/EOD. No anadrol, you will feel those compounds in like 2 weeks.

[liftw8t]

Best

T

nah man not messing with that clomid at 100mg again it made my nipples itchy in pct, plus my test should be pumping because i'm using HCG, oh and how long after last prop pin does pct start

[liftw8t]

Okay got a change for first cycle because from what i'm hearing 750mg a week of sust is a bit much for a second cycle and i dont want to have to take 1000mg of test each week to grow by fall cycle. So i'm thinking for spring cycle (1st one) keep everything the same but up the Tbol or run for 2 weeks longer and do the sust @ 200mg E3D (600mg within a 7 day period) and second one in fall use remainder of sust at 250 E3D for 4-6 wks and do prop @ 50mg EOD which both test combined will be 900mg of test each week and do NPP @ 100mg EOD so about 300-400mg a week, kicking anadrol to curb because prop will be like a kickstart

[Aizen Sosuke]

Why not shoot the sustanon everyother day in your first cycle at like .7 cc or 175mg. That'll end up being 612mg/week and you won't have any left for your second go.

[TITANIUM]

nah man not messing with that clomid at 100mg again it made my nipples itchy in pct, plus my test should be pumping because i'm using HCG, oh and how long after last prop pin does pct start

Take the longest ester in sust.

So, 3 wks, in your case.

Who cares about itchy nipples?

Your pct is weak, and running HCG during cycle is , of course best, but you need to run it.(clomid)

I have yet to try tore, but that's another choice to consider.

best

T

[hankdiesel]

250mg sust eod= 875mg per week It's all pretty simple math.

[liftw8t]

Take the longest ester in sust.

So, 3 wks, in your case.

Who cares about itchy nipples?

Your pct is weak, and running HCG during cycle is , of course best, but you need to run it.(clomid)

I have yet to try tore, but that's another choice to consider.

best

T

Yeah true i'm just spooked of gyno and the nolva helped great on my first cycle. interested in tore also.

[TITANIUM]

Fareston
(Toremifene Citrate)
Fareston is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM), not unlike its more popular cousins Nolvadex and Clomid. Just as we see with Nolvadex, Fareston is used to treat breast cancer in post-menopausal women. It does this by exerting estrogen antagonistic effects in certain tissue, most notably, breast tissue. This is actually the same mechanism of action found in Nolvadex. This is why Nolvadex is often recommended to bodybuilders who are trying to avoid gynocomastia (growth of breast tissue in males). SERMs, in addition, have several other well known effects in men, which are not simply limited to preventing the abnormal growth of breast tissue.

At the hypothalamus and pituitary, estrogen acts in cooperation with the male body’s negative feedback loop to send a signal to decrease the secretion of LH, and when LH secretion is lowered, so are natural testosterone levels. SERMs, like Fareston, possibly act as an estrogen antagonist in the hypothalamus and pituitary, in order to increase testosterone production. Thus, although it hasn’t been studied to any great degree, it’s highly likely that Fareston is capable of increasing testosterone in the same way that Nolvadex it, as it’s androgenicity:estrogenicity ratio is 5x that of Nolvadex (1). It may also be better than Nolvadex for reasons that are of particular interest to steroid using athletes and bodybuilders.

Although anecdotal evidence on this compound is rare, bodybuilders who have already experimented with this stuff seem satisfied. In my estimation, it would seem to be a more potent and safer alternative to Nolvadex, for those who are worried about side effects. It's also predicting that it may provide a greater increase in LH and therefore testosterone levels, in men when compared to Nolvadex (when an appropriate dose of each is utilized). This makes its use a strong possibility for PCT in the future, when studies on its ability to elevate testosterone is more fully studied and understood.

Fareston would also make a welcome addition to a cycle where Cholesterol issues may be a concern, or where something slightly stronger than Nolvadex may be required to prevent gyno.

[liftw8t]

thanks for the info titan

[liftw8t]

This is directed toward Marcus due to a post i saw on another forum, and was wondering about burst cycles, from what i read sounds like a great idea and for someone whos body adapts quick to things i think this would be great for me, can anyone tell me how i can turn my first cycle posted above into a burst?

[Vitruvian-Man]

Okay got a change for first cycle because from what i'm hearing 750mg a week of sust is a bit much for a second cycle and i dont want to have to take 1000mg of test each week to grow by fall cycle. So i'm thinking for spring cycle (1st one) keep everything the same but up the Tbol or run for 2 weeks longer and do the sust @ 200mg E3D (600mg within a 7 day period) and second one in fall use remainder of sust at 250 E3D for 4-6 wks and do prop @ 50mg EOD which both test combined will be 900mg of test each week and do NPP @ 100mg EOD so about 300-400mg a week, kicking anadrol to curb because prop will be like a kickstart

K since no one has even bothered to explain this to you:

Bro, you do NOT keep to constantly keep bumping up your test dosage after each cycle. You do not have to go 500mg / 750mg / 1g of test. That's not how it works. You find a dosage that's your "sweet-spot" for growth, and you stick to it.

600mg of test each week should be suffice for a 2nd cycle.

BTW, for the second cycle where you are using sust for 4 - 6 weeks you must keep in mind that this means PCT will start 18 days after last injection. So that means you will be on cycle much longer then 7 weeks (while waiting for the esters to clear it will be ~10 weeks.)

You are being very wonky w/ the cycles. Just keep it simple man.

[Vitruvian-Man]

This is directed toward Marcus due to a post i saw on another forum, and was wondering about burst cycles, from what i read sounds like a great idea and for someone whos body adapts quick to things i think this would be great for me, can anyone tell me how i can turn my first cycle posted above into a burst?

You must prime your body for a burst cycle which is the difficult part.

Moreover, you aren't even ready for burst cycles. They require quite high dosages, w/ multiple compounds each day, for short periods of time. And you do not have experience w/ basically any AAS in the past, so this would be a terrible idea. (these cycles work very well... but only when the user has a lot of knowledge regarding how each compound at a particular dosage affects their own muscle growth - individual thing..)

[yungone501]

OP, what's your BF%?

[dec11]

don't consider those half-life exact, they are rather approximations. after sust 250 i wait about 15 days and hit the pct.

even if a lot of people say to hit the same sust mg's from start i am skeptical about this and i always suggest to go lighter at start especially since you are rather new to gear...

should be no less than 18 and no more than 21days

[liftw8t]

K since no one has even bothered to explain this to you:

Bro, you do NOT keep to constantly keep bumping up your test dosage after each cycle. You do not have to go 500mg / 750mg / 1g of test. That's not how it works. You find a dosage that's your "sweet-spot" for growth, and you stick to it.

600mg of test each week should be suffice for a 2nd cycle.

BTW, for the second cycle where you are using sust for 4 - 6 weeks you must keep in mind that this means PCT will start 18 days after last injection. So that means you will be on cycle much longer then 7 weeks (while waiting for the esters to clear it will be ~10 weeks.)

You are being very wonky w/ the cycles. Just keep it simple man.

You must prime your body for a burst cycle which is the difficult part.

Moreover, you aren't even ready for burst cycles. They require quite high dosages, w/ multiple compounds each day, for short periods of time. And you do not have experience w/ basically any AAS in the past, so this would be a terrible idea. (these cycles work very well... but only when the user has a lot of knowledge regarding how each compound at a particular dosage affects their own muscle growth - individual thing..)

Sorry dude for all the confusion lol, but yeah your right about keeping it simple, and thanks for clearing that up about upping test every cycle i was misinformed but thanks for clearing that up. As for burst thanks for explaining that too does sound complicated, I just figured i would be a fan of short cycles and when i read his post i was intrigued by it but its cool i mess with it down the road, I just really hate being shut down for so long thats why I'm taking HCG both cycles and plan on making second one shorter, Now let me ask you this is it true that you have to switch test every couple of cycles?

OP, what's your BF%?

like 8-9% at most i've been told its like 7%

[Vitruvian-Man]

Sorry dude for all the confusion lol, but yeah your right about keeping it simple, and thanks for clearing that up about upping test every cycle i was misinformed but thanks for clearing that up. As for burst thanks for explaining that too does sound complicated, I just figured i would be a fan of short cycles and when i read his post i was intrigued by it but its cool i mess with it down the road, I just really hate being shut down for so long thats why I'm taking HCG both cycles and plan on making second one shorter, Now let me ask you this is it true that you have to switch test every couple of cycles?

Not a problem, upping the test is a very common misconception.

Regarding the different test. No! it's another false-rumor. It's nice to change up the esters (different types of test) so that you can get use to both short and long esters; however, using the same ester (IE) test-E for 5 cycles straight will still produce results each time.

BTW, sorry for crushing the dreams of burst cycling. Perhaps down the road though? In any case, you can STILL run short cycles (which can mean less time to recover HPTA). I would just do as I've suggested before...

Cycle #1:

Sust (weeks 1 - 10) @ 150mg EOD
or
Prop (weeks 1 - 10) @ 150mg EOD

Cycle #2:

Prop (weeks 1 - 8) @ 150mg EOD
NPP (weeks 1 - 8) @ 100mg EOD

Throw an oral into one of the cycles if necessary (for bulking or cutting, etc.)

Remember: you are new to the world of AAS, you've only cycled once. As long as you diet correctly, and train hard you should grow like a weed from any of the compounds you use! your receptors are fresh now; take advantage. LOL.

Happy holidays - PM me if you have more issues.. peace.