Orals only Cycle - need clarification please

[Times Roman]

I'm confused.
Here is the background if you'd like to read...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=433512

so when I say I'm doing an orals only cycle, you guys jump on me about protecting my liver, I need to do more reading, blah blah blah....

BUT, when one of the other chaps comes in that's been around for awhile running test, and then says "I'm going to be stacking test with anadrol for the first four weeks...."

This is where I'm confused. I don't hear the usual background noise about protecting the liver if someone says already running test, ONLY when they say they are doing an orals only cycle. Why is that?

Either test protects the liver against the effects of anadrol (which I doubt), or if a bro says he's running test then he's somehow above reproach??

I was trying to have a serious discussion on an orals only cycle (see above link) but it seems we are really not allowed to have a discussion like that here?

So how is it that Arnold et al. were running orals only all those years ago, and now, even though the technology has improved, we are not supposed to talk about it anymore?

Or is this not the right website for that?

[D7M]

I don't see a huge problem with an oral only cycle.

And actually, something like var would be a nice, mild introduction into AAS.

I just don't like the oral only cycle you outlined in your other thread.

Yes, it's true, a lot of people hear "oral only" and get their panties in a bunch.

If you want to run an oral only cycle, I'd look into var or tbol.

[fattywarbucks]

Oral only cycles are crap for many reasons.
1) you can't stay on orals very long without some serious health risks, 4-8 weeks depending on the compound
2) orals are anabolic and bind to receptors, thus supressing your bodies test production.
3) orals are not testosterone, so when they supress you, they don't replace your bodies test
4) test does not protect the liver, it helps make the liver damage more worth it.
5)you need liver protection bc oral steroids must survive passing through the liverinorder to enter the blood stream. When they pass through your liver, they damage your liver.
6) by doing an oral only cycle, you are basically shouting to the world, "I'M IGNORANT. I KNOW MORE THAN EVERYONE"

[fattywarbucks]

I don't see a huge problem with an oral only cycle.

And actually, something like var would be a nice, mild introduction into AAS.

I just don't like the oral only cycle you outlined in your other thread.

Yes, it's true, a lot of people hear "oral only" and get their panties in a bunch.

If you want to run an oral only cycle, I'd look into var or tbol.

Much agreed on var and tbol, but here is my theory:
People who look into Oral Only cycles tend to be young..late teens,early 20s
Especially college kids
Young people don't have much money
Tbol and var tend to be pricey
Oh, why not do some dbol
I know ill post my dbol only cycle on line then get offended when I get told that it sucks

[D7M]

Oral only cycles are crap for many reasons.
1) you can't stay on orals very long without some serious health risks, 4-8 weeks depending on the compound
2) orals are anabolic and bind to receptors, thus supressing your bodies test production.
3) orals are not testosterone, so when they supress you, they don't replace your bodies test
4) test does not protect the liver, it helps make the liver damage more worth it.
5)you need liver protection bc oral steroids must survive passing through the liverinorder to enter the blood stream. When they pass through your liver, they damage your liver.
6) by doing an oral only cycle, you are basically shouting to the world, "I'M IGNORANT. I KNOW MORE THAN EVERYONE"

So have you tried an oral only cycle, or are you just parroting what you've read?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm just curious.

I've tried oral only cycles. And while they don't compare (at all) to injectable cycles,

it's over-stating it a bit to say that all oral only cycle are crap, and means that person is ignorant.

Want more proof? BJJ's detailed var only cycle on here seemed to work pretty well for him.

The OP is 48 years old. I bet with good diet/training a var only cycle would work well for him.

And no, it won't kill his liver after 6-8 weeks.

[fattywarbucks]

By the way, OP, my posts have nothing to do with you, just oral only cycles.

You seem very mature and intellegent in your thread

[fattywarbucks]

So have you tried an oral only cycle, or are you just parroting what you've read?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm just curious.

I've tried oral only cycles. And while they don't compare (at all) to injectable cycles,

it's over-stating it a bit to say that all oral only cycle are crap, and means that person is ignorant.

Want more proof? BJJ's detailed var only cycle on here seemed to work pretty well for him.

The OP is 48 years old. I bet with good diet/training a var only cycle would work well for him.

And no, it won't kill his liver after 6-8 weeks.

To answer your curiosity:

YES, I most certainly am parroting!
Even though points 1-5 that I made were a bit too detailed to be written off as the typical Kyoure too young" parroting that you find in most posts.

I also find it funny, that it was you who talked me out of doing an anavar only cycle, in favor of test.

And like I said, I agreed with you on tbol and var,

Never did I say his liver would die in 6-8 weeks, I said the safest range for orals is 4-8 weeks depending on compound. I also explained to him HOW an oral damages his liver, like he asked. I also answer "does test protect liver" with " no, but it makes the damage worth it"

I have never done any steroid so I cannot give SUBJECTIVE RESPONSES, only well researched answers that can apply the average user.

if I stepped out of line or any of my points were wrong, I appologize

Oh and much respect to you

[D7M]

To answer your curiosity:

YES, I most certainly am parroting!
Even though points 1-5 that I made were a bit too detailed to be written off as the typical Kyoure too young" parroting that you find in most posts.

I also find it funny, that it was you who talked me out of doing an anavar only cycle, in favor of test.

And like I said, I agreed with you on tbol and var,

Never did I say his liver would die in 6-8 weeks, I said the safest range for orals is 4-8 weeks depending on compound. I also explained to him HOW an oral damages his liver, like he asked. I also answer "does test protect liver" with " no, but it makes the damage worth it"

I have never done any steroid so I cannot give SUBJECTIVE RESPONSES, only well researched answers that can apply the average user.

if I stepped out of line or any of my points were wrong, I appologize

Oh and much respect to you

It's cool, bro.

I only convinced you not to use an AI in an attempt to increase test to supra-physiological levels for muscle building (http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=423883).

I don't recall ever discussing orals vs. test in your case.

Having civil discussion like this are a good thing for the board, so thanks for your candid responses.

[fattywarbucks]

Oh and bjj cycle log was great, and var work very well for him especially since he is first and formost a practitioner of brazilian ju jitsu. Were he a body builder exclusively, he would have had a much different experience. All general answers are given towards a bodybuilding specific goal, unless otherwise noted by op, correct?

Either way.

If I came of like a douche, I do that some times and appologize

And I think when your health is at stake, something that "in no way compares to an injectable cycle" can be called crap

[fattywarbucks]

It's cool, bro.

I only convinced you not to use an AI in an attempt to increase test to supra-physiological levels for muscle building (http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=423883).

I don't recall ever discussing orals vs. test in your case.

Having civil discussion like this are a good thing for the board, so thanks for your candid responses.

Oh that's right. I wanted to use an AI as a booster. What a jackass hahahahahaha
Yeah got confused also wanted to do var at first...for strength atleast...still such a Noob move.

Hahaha

[Swifto]

Oral only cycles are crap for many reasons.
1) you can't stay on orals very long without some serious health risks, 4-8 weeks depending on the compound

Garbage. I have stayed on Dbol and Tbol (seperate) for over 12-14 weeks with a minimal increase in live values and lipids.

2) orals are anabolic and bind to receptors, thus supressing your bodies test production.

What and other AAS dont too? What "receptors do they bind to"? Thats the second indication you have no clue what your on about.

3) orals are not testosterone, so when they supress you, they don't replace your bodies test

Andriol is. But I dont think you even knew that. However, I can see your point here. Some "orals" actually increase labido in some so why does that matter?

4) test does not protect the liver, it helps make the liver damage more worth it.

What the f*ck?

5)you need liver protection bc oral steroids must survive passing through the liverinorder to enter the blood stream. When they pass through your liver, they damage your liver.

Kind of correct. But not or orals must be metabolised in the liver. For example, Primo tabs and Proviron are oral AAS, but are not 17aa's or have that specific structural alteration.
6) by doing an oral only cycle, you are basically shouting to the world, "I'M IGNORANT. I KNOW MORE THAN EVERYONE"

You should start shouting, "I DONT KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!" And not be concerned about others. You have no idea what your doing, nor talking about mate.

Bolds

[fattywarbucks]

Bolds

Ill reply by number:
1) I said that staying on longer than 4-8 weeks depending on compound, can cause serious health risks. Saying I was on dbol and tbol for 12- 14 is like saying I smoke 2 packs a day and haven't got cancer yet. You know you would never recommend a 14 week oral cycle to anyone. You got away with 14 wks. Doesn't mean I would. I know someone who got lung cysts from long anadrol cycles does that mean everyone will. Of course not.

2) I should have clarified. In this case I meant that they bind to hormone receptors signaling the halt of test production. Setting up to point three. I said this bc, even though its obvious that all supress of shut you down to varryig degrees, I get the feeling that some people think that since it is not straight testosterone it will not shut you down. And yes I knew anadrol is test. I obviosly jerkk it to profiles hahah I'm lame

3) just bc your libido is in check, hormone stability is always a concern. Haveing extremely low test levels due to suppression is not made okay by the random chance that one can get an erection.

4) this was a direct answer to a question asked by the OP. I'm not insane, but I see how that looked out of context

5) has anyone ever considered a proviron only cycle? And even non-17's still have a degree of liver toxicity. I was just giving a general response to the OPs question of why he needs liver protection while on an oral cycle

We"ll comprimise. Ill scream out I AM A DOUCHE!!! BETTER?

Much respect to you. I owe my whole planned pct to you.

[Swifto]

Ill reply by number:
1) I said that staying on longer than 4-8 weeks depending on compound, can cause serious health risks. Saying I was on dbol and tbol for 12- 14 is like saying I smoke 2 packs a day and haven't got cancer yet. You know you would never recommend a 14 week oral cycle to anyone. You got away with 14 wks. Doesn't mean I would. I know someone who got lung cysts from long anadrol cycles does that mean everyone will. Of course not.

I'm not suggesting 12-14 weeks on orals. I stated my experience. To say over "4-8 weeks causes serious health risks" is way overboard.

2) I should have clarified. In this case I meant that they bind to hormone receptors signaling the halt of test production. Setting up to point three. I said this bc, even though its obvious that all supress of shut you down to varryig degrees, I get the feeling that some people think that since it is not straight testosterone it will not shut you down. And yes I knew anadrol is test. I obviosly jerkk it to profiles hahah I'm lame

If your regarding testosterone suppression the androgens may bind to the ER, AR and PgR in the hypothalamus.

Again, "Anadrol" is not testosterone, Andriol is Test Undec. which is oral Test.

3) just bc your libido is in check, hormone stability is always a concern. Haveing extremely low test levels due to suppression is not made okay by the random chance that one can get an erection.

I'm not saying that. The usual use of exo. Testosterone is to add to gains or effects on LBM and fatloss, but its also required for day to day functions, like labido, CNS function and overall health.

But its not essential. One can cycle orals that inhibit of even shutdown the HPTA without a source of exo. Testosterone. Tbol, Var, Dbol (to some degree) and other androgens can be used effectively.

4) this was a direct answer to a question asked by the OP. I'm not insane, but I see how that looked out of context

5) has anyone ever considered a proviron only cycle? And even non-17's still have a degree of liver toxicity. I was just giving a general response to the OPs question of why he needs liver protection while on an oral cycle

Hepatoxicity is overrated, honestly. I know of some who have run 150-200mg/ED Anadrol for lengthy periods and are still alive, other's who have used 150-200mg/ED Winstrol who still grace this planet.

Pro's doses are out of this world, but they do encounter "serious health risks", although rare.

We"ll comprimise. Ill scream out I AM A DOUCHE!!! BETTER?

ha ha... I was only joking mate.

Much respect to you. I owe my whole planned pct to you.

Thanks, I hope it goes well. Let me know if you run into problems.

bolds

[Times Roman]

What a lively group we are today! So on top of my NAC, I just ordered a pound of Milk thistle 80% for the liver. Should be here in a few days. My anadrol cycle is 4 weeks, very short, with a long run of anavar and nolva. I was being a bit rhetorical in my comments, trying to illustrate an orals only cycle, while we can all agree is NOT ideal, could still be worth while so long as we know what we are doing. Keep the cycles short, protect the liver, and don't forget the PCT. If I were a single guy, then pinning some test would be no problemo. But damm! I've got kids that snoop around. Try explaining gear to your 11 year old! So it's orals only until I figure things out. 90% of the advice here seems to be read read read. Good advise. But half you guys don't seem to think things through before you offer advise in this arena, which means everyone has to read through all the crap to find the nuggets of information that is worth while. Some of you really seem to know what you are doing, and your sage advise has value. Then there are others that seemed to have checked their brains at the door when they come here and proffer advise to others. I'm new here, so I guess I just learned something, in more ways than one.