crazy but will it work? SERM only cycle...

[Simon1972]

The idea is that by using nolvadex only at 20mg ED for approx 6 weeks, you end up doubling your natural test levels.

If you are a bodybuilder wanting to get Huge Quickly then this might not be for you.

However if you are an athlete, or perhaps a recreational bodybuilder looking at quicker recovery while not putting on too much mass

i know i can get Nolvadex but gear is becoming hard to source that is trustworthy (not fake) so was trying to think outside of the square.

I'm curious what people think of this idea, how effective it would be- side effects , how it could be run etc.

[MR10X]

http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v.../3900981a.html

http://j***.endojournals.org/content/90/10/5717.full

[empireants901]

Estrogen plays a important roll in the promotion of an anabolic state by affecting glucose utilization in muscle tissues. This occurs via an altering of the level of available glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase. An enzyme directly tied to the use of glucose for muscle tissue growth. That being said .... If you lower your estrogen too much you'll get less gains and take longer to recover. The only reason you'd need a ai is while on aas when your estrogen is too high, the only way to get your estrogen that high is having your test that high. To get your test that high you'd be on aas. So save it for when you can get some aas

[< <Samson> >]

Good info to know!

[Simon1972]

Estrogen plays a important roll in the promotion of an anabolic state by affecting glucose utilization in muscle tissues. This occurs via an altering of the level of available glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase. An enzyme directly tied to the use of glucose for muscle tissue growth. That being said .... If you lower your estrogen too much you'll get less gains and take longer to recover. The only reason you'd need a ai is while on aas when your estrogen is too high, the only way to get your estrogen that high is having your test that high. To get your test that high you'd be on aas. So save it for when you can get some aas

yes but the way i see it, you use nolva- and the nolva fights against the estrogen in your body to bind with the receptors. your body trys to get into balance and increases test production with the intent of the test converting to estrogen- which wont happen fully ( dependant upon dosage of nolva) , so your natural test increases, again the body tries to find balance and produces more test to try to convert to estrogen- as long as you take nolva estrogen is blocked and test is increased..

if you can find a dosage that doesnt stop estrogen from binding completely you can still maintain a satisfactory level of estrogen whilst increasing test levels that provide a healthy increase and very small , but welcome gains over base levels....is there any creedence to this argument?

[Simon1972]

http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v.../3900981a.html

http://j***.endojournals.org/content/90/10/5717.full

thanks Mr10x, good info which sort of backs up what im asking, the second link wont work- spam filter on this forum has blocked the first word.

[Simon1972]

here is a link to some more info.
http://www.maledoc.com/blog/2010/04/...-works-in-men/
How Clomid Works in Men

April 28th, 2010 § 570 comments





To understand how clomiphene works, you need to know how the pituitary controls the making of testosterone in the testis. Testosterone is made by Leydig cells in the testis, which I explained in my last post. The pituitary releases a hormone called luteinizing hormone (“LH”) that stimulates the Leydig cells to make testosterone. Testosterone is converted to the female hormone estrogen, (which I also explained in my last post,) and estrogen tells the pituitary to stop making more LH. This kind of negative feedback system is common when it comes to how hormones work. It’s just like a thermostat and heater. As the room gets warmer, the thermostat sends less electricity to the heater. When the room gets colder, the thermostat sends more electricity to the heater.



Clomiphene works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone.

As I explained in my last post, giving testosterone to a man does just the opposite. The pituitary thinks that the testis is making plenty of testosterone, and LH falls. As a result, the testis stops making testosterone, and the usually high levels of testosterone in the testis fall to the lower level in the blood.

So clomiphene is a way to increase testosterone in the blood and the testis at the same time. It preserves testis size and function while increasing blood testosterone.

Unfortunately, clomiphene is not FDA approved for use in the male. Like most of the medications that we use to treat male fertility, the pharmaceutical company that originally sought approval by the FDA did it for women. Clomiphene is now generic, and it’s unlikely that anyone will pony up the hundreds of millions of dollars necessary to get it approved for the male. That’s the bad news. The good news is that it means that this medication is fairly inexpensive, cheaper than most forms of prescription testosterone. Can a doctor prescribe clomiphene for a man? Yes. It’s “off label”, meaning that it’s not FDA approved for use in men.

As a medication, clomiphene is usually well tolerated by men. In my experience, most patients don’t feel anything as their testosterone rises. Those that do feel an increase in energy, sex drive, and muscle mass, especially if they work out. Very rarely I’ve had patients report that they feel too aggressive, or too angry. Very very rarely (twice in the last 20 years) I’ve had patients report visual changes. That’s worrisome, as the pituitary is near the optic nerve in the brain, and visual changes suggests that the pituitary may be changing in size. Because the skull is a closed space, it’s alarming if anything in the brain changes in size. In the last twenty years, I’ve also had two patients who had breast enlargement (called “gynecomastia”) while using clomiphene. Needless to say, for any of these problematic side effects, the clomiphene is discontinued.

So that’s the story with clomiphene. It can be used in the male, either for fertility or low testosterone levels. It’s an off label prescription drug. It works, and is usually well tolerated by men who take it.

[Lemonada8]

You wont have much anabolic gains from it compared to other compounds. But if ur wantin to blow some big loads on the ladies, 25mg of clomid ED for several weeks will help accomplish that.


and that above article does a good job explaining clomid in a laymans terms... but in truth there are much more specific actions with clomid compared to nolva.

[Simon1972]

You wont have much anabolic gains from it compared to other compounds. But if ur wantin to blow some big loads on the ladies, 25mg of clomid ED for several weeks will help accomplish that.


and that above article does a good job explaining clomid in a laymans terms... but in truth there are much more specific actions with clomid compared to nolva.

thanks lemonada, i realise nothing beats gear for mass gains- thats not what this thread is about- its really about safely boosting test from a well being point of view with minimising side effects a. Wether clomid or nolva is used for this end purpose- whats the difference/benefits of each one?

[Lemonada8]

Boosting test for what purpose? workouts? then neither would really be effective. If you are hypogonadic (border line low test) then i woudl go with a low dose clomid (25mg ED) for an extended period of time.. U dont wanna go high dose cuz then u can run into feedback problems and desenstization...

but if u are low test then get it checked out by a endo first then u can prolly get pharm grade script instead of research chem...

[underwaterfox]

simon 1972 Ive been thinking the same thing for such a long time in theory i dont see why taking nolva for about 6 months wouldnt work since its going to increase your own testosterone production. also is that you in youre picture? if so you have one of the best female bodies Ive ever seen i was wondering if you had more pics?

[Simon1972]

simon 1972 Ive been thinking the same thing for such a long time in theory i dont see why taking nolva for about 6 months wouldnt work since its going to increase your own testosterone production. also is that you in youre picture? if so you have one of the best female bodies Ive ever seen i was wondering if you had more pics?

im a guy - stop hitting on me! how many women do you know called Simon?

[stocky121]

Hahaha

[ISU152]

ahahahaha..that's great! On a serious note, those articles were a great read!