How long does it take?

[harleydog]

I am doing my second cycle I am doing 1200 test 400 and 1025 of deca a week..my question is how long before I start seeing a difference?I used test 300 and tren before and could tell after a week ,I have been going on 3 weeks on this cycle.also should I cut the deca at week 7 and go to tren and test..stats are 6ft1 260 at 10% bf just got measured today thought I was more..thxs guys..also consider I am 46 not a kid anymore

[Turkish Juicer]

You should start seeing a difference anywhere between week 3-6, as this really depends on the person.

So, your first cycle was Test 300 and Tren, and your second is 1200mg of test 400 and 1025mg of deca a week?

Holy shit dude, holy shit...

[KINGKONG]

As been said depends on the person but I notice serious results with longer esters like test enth or deca in 3-6 weeks then it packs on quick....I think you should run the deca min 12 weeks so maybe save the tren for your next cycle imo..

[harleydog]

turk ,do you think I am running way to much?I was told and read because I am alreay 260lbs I will have to run more to feel the effects if I am wrong someone help..I thought 1200 of test 400 and 1025 of deca was a good amount am I wrong..

[binsser]

fck me lololol thats a big ass cycle m8 an youd need a few under your belt to bump that much into you ...i mean you could do 750mg of each and easerly see good results that you would be happy with that is alot of gear m8 you are big already but it doesnt mean you have to do triple what everyone else does in my opinion m8 its alot of gear and id want at lest 8-10 cycles before doing that much

test -750mg
deca-750mg
hcg 2x 250 iu a week
arimidex quater pill eod

clomid/nolva pct letro on hand FAT CYCLE!!!

[Turkish Juicer]

^^^ Agreed.

Your dosing protocol is way to high for a second cycle, not to mention you would have been all set with Test only at 750mg EW.

It is wiser to run Test only as for your first few cycles and see how your body responds to Test in the first place. One can experiment between different Tests with regard to this process, such as using Test Prop, Test E, Test C, Sustanon and so forth to see which one is delivering better results with less sides.

It is also wiser to learn how your body responds to say 0.25mg Arimidex EOD or 12.5mg Aromasin ED while on cycle and the same goes for HCG Pregnyl implementation. Before running multiple compounds at high doses, one may want to see how fast is the pace of recovery while on PCT with a standard protocol.

Everyone can run stacks at high doses IMO, but the point is to make sure everything is under control, especially concerning estrogen management during cycle as well as pace and overall quality of recovery post cycle before going big with number of compounds and dosing.

[harleydog]

I will lower my dosage to 400 test twice a week = 800 and deca at 500..plus I only got 150 tabs of 20mg of nova I didnt buy arimdex or aromasin will this be ok..I want to clear one thing up which may help also ..I said I have only done one cylce which was 300test and tren..I was taking 600 test and 450 tren and had great gains..but I have been on test for 5yrs from the dr he has me on test cyp 200 twice a week...so I decided to get off of the cyp and do another cycle..so far only thing I have noticed was after the first shot it felt like I had the flu and my ass was sore as hell..[I have only ever shot myself in the glutes no where else ever]thxs turk for the help..

[binsser]

test flu possible m8 and use alchole wipes before injecting or you might need to inject some where else to give your current injection site a rest like thigh,delts etc etc my friend cant use his glutes now where hes done so much he just gets lumps and soreness for days no fun at all buddy! have a think thighs are really easy and quick!

[Turkish Juicer]

I will lower my dosage to 400 test twice a week = 800 and deca at 500..plus I only got 150 tabs of 20mg of nova I didnt buy arimdex or aromasin will this be ok..I want to clear one thing up which may help also ..I said I have only done one cylce which was 300test and tren..I was taking 600 test and 450 tren and had great gains..but I have been on test for 5yrs from the dr he has me on test cyp 200 twice a week...so I decided to get off of the cyp and do another cycle..so far only thing I have noticed was after the first shot it felt like I had the flu and my ass was sore as hell..[I have only ever shot myself in the glutes no where else ever]thxs turk for the help..

So you are on TRT?

Well, I am not surprised to hear that you had great gains when you were on 600mg of Test and 450mg of Tren, so would anyone else out there...

I would never inject myself with 1200mg of Test and 1025mg of Deca without the implementation of a solid AI throughout the cycle as the absence of an AI with these compounds and dosing considered would most likely to lead to several estrogen related issues, name it anything between excessive bloating and formation of gyno. How did you manage to go through this cycle without experiencing severe estrogen related sides anyway? I know everybody is different and not everyone uses an AI during a cycle but these are serious dosages especially for a first and a second cycle...

At any rate, Arimidex 0.25mg EOD is recommended to keep the estrogen under check and I think it is wise to decrement your current dosages as you also have indicated above.

[harleydog]

what would you reccomend as a good dosage and can I take the novadex with this?I am hearing 10 different storys some say because my size I need more to feel any effect and others say I dont need as much..as far as the gyno goes..I have gyno already from when I tryed some of the prohormones halodrol when it first came out..to be honest I have never done a pct with it ,if my nipples hurt I would take nolvedex until the pain was gone..I know this dosage seems high but I have lupus and have had cancer before so the lupus makes my joints kill me and it seems to be working the pain isnt as bad...

[>Good Luck<]

The Turk knows his sh!t... I'd take his advice to heart and follow it closely.

Aside from that, I have nothing I can contribute except HOLY MOLY THAT'S A LOT OF GEAR!

[Turkish Juicer]

what would you reccomend as a good dosage and can I take the novadex with this?I am hearing 10 different storys some say because my size I need more to feel any effect and others say I dont need as much..as far as the gyno goes..I have gyno already from when I tryed some of the prohormones halodrol when it first came out..to be honest I have never done a pct with it ,if my nipples hurt I would take nolvedex until the pain was gone..I know this dosage seems high but I have lupus and have had cancer before so the lupus makes my joints kill me and it seems to be working the pain isnt as bad...

1. Test at 800mg and Deca at 600mg is still considered a strong cycle, if you are handling these dosages well without experiencing typical sides (especially those associated with Deca) then I would say do not hesitate. These are much more reasonable dosages as for a 2nd cycle compared to 1200mg of Test and 1025mg of Deca without the implementation of an AI and/or PCT, that's just crazy my friend.

2. Your diet, training regimen and pace/quality of recovery are the major determinants of how much you would grow in a cycle as opposed to solely counting on content, number and dosing of given compounds as some tend to think. It is obvious that both anabolism and strength will increase as the dose increases, however, cycling at excessive doses without giving your 100% in terms of eating, training and recovery is basically a useless act. In sum, you will grow at the doses mentioned above regardless of how big you are to begin with, and especially considering that this is only your 2nd cycle.

3. You can choose between 3 AI's and typically follow an AI protocol throughout your cycle which would look something like this: Arimidex 0.25mg EOD/Aromasin 12.5mg ED/Femara(Letrozole) 2.5mg EOD (since the elimination half life of this AI is roughly 2 days). Arimidex 0.25mg is typically suggested on the forum and there are a few rationales behind it, hence not necessarily making it the best choice for everyone. Between your joint pain and already existing gyno, I know for a fact Arimidex will NOT be your best choice. I recommend Letrozole 2.5mg ED throughout the cycle.

4. PCT seems quite irrelevant and unnecessary since you have been on TRT for the last 5 years.

[kif]

WOW! Second cycle! Wast of money IMO

[harleydog]

thxs turk for giving me upfront advice and being cool about it..I have been on trt for 5 yrs and after I went thru chemo I developed lupus.I use to be able to incline bench over 500 and now im lucky if i do 375 at 46 I shouldnt complain..I am going to try taking test 800 and 600 of deca along with some letrozole I will have to find some..I do have 150 pills of 20mg nolva but not sure if this will help..I am pretty good on my diet as I have won 3 shows when I was natural in the heavyweight but figured since the dr put me on trt I cant do anymore natural shows I might as well enjoy life and feel good about my lifting..I have to say This is one of the better sites where you can ask a question and not get jumped on..

[blacksmoke]

You have had cancer, battling lupus and want to do a big cycle. Sounds crazy to me. I hope everything works out for you.

[wmaousley]

ummmm I have been cycling for about 12 years now and I have never used over a gram of Test per week much less Deca. As a matter of fact, the first pin of 1000mg in a week of Test for me was 6 weeks ago when I had my first Nebido injection.

That is an insane amount of aas for anyone, I dont care what your experience level is. And over a gram of Deca, Whats wrong with you, and who in the hell talked you into this or told you this is ok?

[binsser]

Just dont listen to anyone else m8 this is why yu are here listen to te experiance members its not off the top of there head its becuase they know what there is to know bud dont let people confuse you bud stay focused and ull do well m8!

[KINGKONG]

I worked my way up to a gram of test and a gram of EQ over a series of cycles maybe 3-4 years and I regret that now because Ive kinda tapped out were Iam I gonna go from here..Tweak your diet and training and you should be able to produce muscle off half that amount..

[harleydog]

Binser so far you seam the most leveled headed..I know guys who have used 1000 of test and tren or deca with no problems..I came here for suggestions I guess with 20+ yrs of exp of lifting just not the drug part I should have known better...

[KINGKONG]

Really?I always hit veins in my thighs and they seem to hurt, my buddy does his thighs but Ive always been a glute man after 10 years they have nothing but a bit of scar tissue..No problems..

[KINGKONG]

Anyways harley ppl are just looking out for your health..I know animals that take multi-gram cycles year round and seem like they have no problems..Everybody gets old though and you gotta plan long term..In my modest opinion..

[JohnnyVegas]

Solid thread. Great advice all around. Harleydog, you have quite a story. Good to hear you are still going strong.

[harleydog]

kong ,thxs..thats is why I came here..I have more lifting exp then most peoples ages..lol I have lifted over 25 yrs and have won some good shows.I am new to the gear stuff and honestly if the dr wouldnt have put me on trt to begin with I wouldnt have messed with it..I really do appriciate all the help I can get just confused with all the different answers..I asked a old pro bodybuilder and he told me for my size I should do 800 test with 500 deca with some arimedex..then I have other people telling me since I am bigger I need more..well cancer hasnt beat me,lupus hasnt beat me,and my ex wife hasnt beat me so I will take my licks..lol were all here for the same reason I am sure I can give alot of people advice on lifting and diets but cycles I am lost I will admit it so any real help is much appriciated..thxs guys...

[KINGKONG]

Hey it's an honor tohave someone who has devoted his life to iron we all love the same thing thats what we have in common..You sound like a cool guy..I gotta lotta drug history bro so if ever need my personal opinion feel free..As I might ask your opinion on a training regimin..Stay cool Harley

[harleydog]

thxs kong anytime you have questions feel free as I will of you..

[binsser]

ha ha ha the ex wife hasnt beat me classic ...mine beats me daily time of the month i am ruined lololol