Proviron+HCG Post Cycle???

[Power3]

Hi, everyone. First off, I want to apologize if I'm not posting this in the right forum. I'm a new user, and I've been training for a few years now. 6'4", 215lbs and 13% bodyfat. I'm looking into doing my first cycle, but do not want to start until I have a proper plan/PCT in place as health is my foremost priority. I'm only 23 years old, but have a total test level of 212. Free test is at 18. So, legally, I can be prescribed test. The guy who would be a liaison for me with a plastic surgeon recommends the following cycle:

Cycle
Week 1-10
300 mg test 1 x week
100 mg anavar every other day (comes in 100mg capsules)

"PCT"
Week 11-15 HCG
Week 11-18 Proviron

I see many things wrong with this. Pharma grade, so I kind of understand the low dose of test, as I've emphasized how I want this to be as safe as possible. But I've read 400-500 would be more ideal. He also claims you can run Anavar indefinitley... but I seem to think that's not prudent as it suppresses natural T somewhat and is an oral.

Further, I've read that many discourage the use of proviron and hcg for a post. He says Clomid/Nolva aren't necessary because the cycle isn't very strong.

What it seems like to me is that this guy is trying to set "clients" up for long-term "service" without their knowing by creating a dependence on these substances. I'm inclined to believe this due to his advised PCT, or lack thereof. Also the fact that he says Anavar doesn't need to be cycled. Both of which would suppress natural test. Am I correct, or simply being overly paranoid. Would you guys please advise?

[Power3]

138-views-and-no-replies bump.

[kelkel]

First, welcome to the forum.
Second, what is the reason your test is so low?
Third, your liaison and surgeon really don't know hormones.

Read this as what your friends are proposing is ridiclous:

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

But seriously, first and foremost you should be trying to figure out why your T is so low. Do you have blood work you can post?

[Power3]

Thank you for responding, Kelkel. I have blood work, but due to the length of this post, I will separate them into separate posts.

To be honest, I'm not really sure why my test is so low. And it's very concerning. I have a pretty low libido. I don't have ED problems or anything like that, but probably only desire sex every 3 or 4 days. No problems with the girlfriend, and don't have any problems with duration. Mostly just don't have a desire, unless if it is easily available. Also, focus at work is always an issue. I thought it was normal to procrastinate as much as I do, but I'm starting to see it's not out of a sense of laziness but rather a lack of willpower/focus. I rely on caffeine heavily for this reason to be productive.

As for why my test could be low, I have a few speculations...

For the day of the test, I have to take these into account:
- I tested at 11:00am, but woke up at 5:30am. But I doubt my levels would decline so drastically from being awake for 5.5 hours.
- I did not fast before the test (he told me it wasn't necessary. I wish I would have in hindsight). From the time I woke up until 10am, I consumed 45g fat, 69g protein, and 55g of carbs. Not sure if this made much of a difference or not.
- I train 3 days on, 1 day off (push/pull/legs/off repeat). Some attribute overtraining to low T, but to be honest, I don't feel overtrained. Occasionally, I won't feel all that motivated for day three, but it depends on diet. The day of my test was on an off day (so it followed legs).
- I'm eating at a caloric deficit (2,300 calories, maintenance is around 2,900).

Issues from my past that could be contributing factors:
- At age 19, I took Clen for about a month w/o any sort of pct. Kept dosage moderate throughout, then abruptly quit taking it because I had no idea what I was doing.
- At age 19, I took a Complete Nutrition Shred Stack (Omega, Assault, and DR1). Pretty sure DR1 was not good at that age (noticed slight shedding, and that's when I stopped taking it). I see no problem with the thermogenic (Assault) or the Omega supplement.
- I drank pretty heavily at the age of 18 while in college. Scaled it back quite drastically since the age of 20. Very rarely drink in excess now.

Not sure if any of this would actually influence my current test levels. I appreciate your help! My blood work will be posted below.

[Power3]

Lab Test Results

Cmp14+Lp+Cbc/D/Plt+Tsh+Psa+...


Glucose, Serum 87 65-99 mg/dL
Bun 26 6-20 mg/dL
Creatinine, Serum 1.24 0.76-1.27 mg/dL
Egfr If Nonafricn Am 81 >59 mL/min/1.73
Egfr If Africn Am 94 >59 mL/min/1.73
Bun/Creatinine Ratio 21 8-19 1
Sodium, Serum 140 134-144 mmol/L
Potassium, Serum 4.6 3.5-5.2 mmol/L
Chloride, Serum 99 97-108 mmol/L
Carbon Dioxide, Total 23 18-29 mmol/L
Calcium, Serum 9.7 8.7-10.2 mg/dL
Protein, Total, Serum 7.3 6.0-8.5 g/dL
Albumin, Serum 4.8 3.5-5.5 g/dL
Globulin, Total 2.5 1.5-4.5 g/dL
A/G Ratio 1.9 1.1-2.5 1
Bilirubin, Total 0.4 0.0-1.2 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 76 39-117 IU/L
Ast (Sgot) 25 0-40 IU/L
Alt (Sgpt) 21 0-44 IU/L
Cholesterol, Total 131 100-189 mg/dL
Triglycerides 79 0-114 mg/dL
Hdl Cholesterol 43 >39 mg/dL
Vldl Cholesterol Cal 16 5-40 mg/dL
Ldl Cholesterol Calc 72 0-119 mg/dL
Tsh 2.440 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.3 0.0-4.0 ng/mL
Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 230 115-355 ng/mL

Testosterone, Serum 212 348-1197 ng/dL
Comment: Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males up to 40 years old.
Free Testosterone(Direct) 18.6 9.3-26.5 pg/mL
Progesterone 0.2 0.2-1.4 ng/mL
Estradiol 20.6 7.6-42.6 pg/mL
Wbc 5.0 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL
Rbc 5.08 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL
Hemoglobin 15.0 12.6-17.7 g/dL
Hematocrit 44.9 37.5-51.0 %
Mcv 88 79-97 fL
Mch 29.5 26.6-33.0 pg
Mchc 33.4 31.5-35.7 g/dL
Rdw 12.8 12.3-15.4 %
Platelets 241 150-379 x10E3/uL
Neutrophils 52 %
Lymphs 34 %
Monocytes 6 %
Eos 7 %
Basos 1 %
Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.6 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.7 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.3 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL
Eos (Absolute) 0.3 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL
Baso (Absolute) 0.1 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL
Immature Granulocytes 0 %
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL

[kelkel]

No matter what time of the day you tested you'd be low with that number. A few hours here or there are not that significant.
No need to fast for accurate testosterone readings.
Doubtful you're over training.
Nutritional deficit can make a difference, again though nothing significant unless you're approaching starvation.
No worries with clen.
Everyone drinks in college.

That ^^ said. Your BW really doesn't show anything of note other than an elevated TSH level. Anything over two should be looked at. Depending on your other thyroid numbers it could lead to suppression of your test levels. Hypothyroidism causes hypogonadism. What you need to see are the following:

Full thyroid panel: TSH, FT3, FT4, RT3 and antibodies.
LH & FSH
Cortisol
Prolactin
Total and free test again

All the above items (except total and free test) can lead to suppression if levels are elevated. LH & FSH will help us determine if your issue is primary (testical related) or secondary (pituitary related.)

kel

[Power3]

Kel,

Once again, I really appreciate your response. I'll make sure to get another panel done (shooting for sometime this week).

Whether my low test level is primary or secondary, will it change course of treatment/cycles?

CW

[Power3]

Accidental bump.

[kelkel]

Kel,

Once again, I really appreciate your response. I'll make sure to get another panel done (shooting for sometime this week).

Whether my low test level is primary or secondary, will it change course of treatment/cycles?

CW

Yes it can. Regarding treatment, if you're primary adding clomid would be of no use as no matter how high your LH was elevated there would be little to no response from your testicals. Same would go for HCG mono-therapy. If secondary adding clomid would elevate your T and help to maintain fertility, if that's important. Adding testosterone would completely shut down LH function yet is arguably the best received type of therapy. This is something that needs to be taken seriously which is why the proper BW needs to be pulled and evaluated with a competent doc. One who knows hormones. Title does not matter, just that they know hormones.